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No Nude allowed…but Gore is OK??
Posted: 17 November 2012 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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chohole - 17 November 2012 11:24 AM

What Ricahrd actually said was

Answer NO and NO. But a limited exception has been made for RawArt’s thread.

This is not RawArt’s thread.

Nor is the store RawArt’s thread.  So why is a TOS-violating render the main promo-pic for this product in the “family-friendly” store where any kid can run across it?  Either it’s not TOS-violating, or DAZ allowed (encouraged, according to RawArt) this.
 
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LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 11:26 AM

Do you really think making a big deal over this is going to help your case? It sounds as if you are ok with artistic nudity and would like to see it allowed here. But you are offended by gore. Rawn pushed the boundaries and got something allowed that probably would not have been allowed before. By making a huge deal over this it is going to make Daz not want to allow the boundaries to be pushed again . . .

The point (IIUC) isn’t that the product shouldn’t be up — it’s a great product, badly needed, and I’m hoping for an expansion or three!  It’s that TOS-violating violence and gore shouldn’t be in the main promo pic of the product where customers can’t help but seeing it while shoping.  Something like this should require a click-through at least, like selecting the product because you want to see more, or looking in RawArt’s exception-provided product thread.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that is fine to discuss as long as it is done in a civil manner. If things can’t stay civil in this thread you run the risk of us locking the thread. Direct your comments to the subject and not any individual.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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Just to clarify something:

Not the goal expose my nude works if you are referring to me, I’m comfortable with DevianArt, even is much easier googleing “zilvergrafix” in google images cool hmm in fact, modesty apart, I have tons of email begging for my most recent works and many commision works in progre$$, sincerely don’t need exposure here, the MAIN idea is…please, Daz, follow your own rules, that image is a nono for your “family site” or things had changed?, well, if gore is allowed, nude MUST be allowed too in promo shots of productos, nude of ANY user, not only speaking for me, If all the US people can manage ripped limbs I can’t understand how our own skin, the same skin we are seeing in our couples when we do/sex/love, can not allow here too!!, US citizens go to shower with your eyes closed or what?

artistic freedom?, not here for sure, this is a business site, the forum is limited in many ways, the form of how to tell, how to express, even how write and thus avoiding other forum users got wrong my words like you had stated here.

again, sorry for my grammar, and that is the only thing that I will apologize, not for other things that need fixed not for me, for ALL whose were offended, customers looking maybe for 3D hair or 3D cloth and clicking “new releases” got a surprise in your PCs, not all have their PC in your room, what about a living room “hey look this wonderful 3D site when I’ve bought my Aiko3 and Genesis fig…wowowo! what is thaaaaatt!!”

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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@KickAir 8P, I said nothing about the product itself, my comments have been about the images only. Nothing I said was about what products should or shouldn’t be in the store. Just to clarify.

As for the product promotional images. I don’t see a single act of violence portrayed in any of them. As has been pointed out already, there is no blood on the sword. There is nothing to indicated that the Samurai character did anything to the hacked up guy. It looks to me that he more than likely walked in and found him like that.

As for Daz being a family site. I have never once seen an image on the site, either in the store or on the forums that I have found to be offensive in any way, or that I would have an issue showing to any member of my family or my friends of any age. 

Again, if you want nudity in promo shots for products, if you want that boundary pushed, is making a big deal over this going to help that or hurt it? Things happen in small steps, this is one small step expanding what can be shown in the promos. If you make a big deal over this small step, the next step will likely be backward, not forward.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

@KickAir 8P, I said nothing about the product itself, my comments have been about the images only. Nothing I said was about what products should or shouldn’t be in the store. Just to clarify.

You seemed to be saying that discussing this issue could get the product removed from the store, or prevent similar products from being offered — sorry, I just wanted to clarify that that wasn’t the intended outcome.  (Although I’ll grant that unintended outcomes happen all the time, yanking the product would be well over the top.  And hopefully the success of this product - which I’m sure this thread will promote - will encourage similar offerings.)
 

LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

As for the product promotional images. I don’t see a single act of violence portrayed in any of them. As has been pointed out already, there is no blood on the sword . . .

Samurai swords are well-known for being cleanable by a hard swing through air (which is an exaggeration, but still).  So the lack of visible blood on the blade doesn’t make this look any less violent . . . but am I to understand that a pic of a dismembered corpse, lying it its own blood, with a terrified and agonized expression on its severed head, is perfectly fine within the TOS?

 

LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

As for Daz being a family site. I have never once seen an image on the site, either in the store or on the forums that I have found to be offensive in any way, or that I would have an issue showing to any member of my family or my friends of any age.

Me neither (well, not in the store), but neither your preferences nor mine (nor anybody elses) are the issue.  (Edited to add:  whoops, I find this promo pic offensive, but that’s off-topic.)

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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Nope, all comments I have made have been about art and images allowed either in the store or on the forums or both. Nothing was intended to be about products. I certainly did not intend to imply that any of this could result in a product being pulled. If that came across it was not at all my intent. I am simply speaking about art and images.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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KickAir 8P - 17 November 2012 12:23 PM


LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

As for the product promotional images. I don’t see a single act of violence portrayed in any of them. As has been pointed out already, there is no blood on the sword . . .

Samurai swords are well-known for being cleanable by a hard swing through air (which is an exaggeration, but still).  So the lack of visible blood on the blade doesn’t make this look any less violent . . . but am I to understand that a pic of a dismembered corpse, lying it its own blood, with a terrified and agonized expression on its severed head, is perfectly fine within the TOS?

This is called “ochiburi”.  And it doesn’t work to remove “all of the blood” any more than slinging a butcher knife will remove the blood there.  What is left out from the “films” is that during “noto” or returning of the blade to the saya (scabbard) a piece of rice paper (or one’s hakama) is used to clean the blade as it is drawn back.  There are between 27 and 29 inches of steel and blood REALLY REALLY likes to stick to steel.  If the blade is put back into the saya with blood on it, and the blood is allowed to dry, there’s a fair chance that one will not be drawing it again without breaking the saya apart using a chisel.  Then one will have a devil of a time getting the rust off of the blade, ESPECIALLY if it is folded steel.

In short, it is a MYTH that the blood can be shaken from the blade.

For those wondering, I have NOT killed anyone with my blades, but I have been through advanced cutting where freshly slaughtered meat is purchased and used for training and testing—and subsequent grilling grin.

Kendall

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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Incredible how a simple clean blade can be an excuse for not being commited a crime, in my country exists a phrase that I’ll recall:

“tanto peca el que mata la vaca como el que le agarro la pata”, in simple terms, “the one killing a cow is guilty in the same way if others helping him holding the cow”
what next, the samurai have not blood in his clothes due to a japanese soap powder technologically advanced only for ninja use?.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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Kendall Sears - 17 November 2012 12:40 PM

but I have been through advanced cutting where freshly slaughtered meat is purchased and used for training and testing—and subsequent grilling grin.

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That’s the part I like…

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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Kendall Sears - 17 November 2012 12:40 PM
KickAir 8P - 17 November 2012 12:23 PM
LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

As for the product promotional images. I don’t see a single act of violence portrayed in any of them. As has been pointed out already, there is no blood on the sword . . .

Samurai swords are well-known for being cleanable by a hard swing through air (which is an exaggeration, but still).  So the lack of visible blood on the blade doesn’t make this look any less violent . . .

This is called “ochiburi”.  And it doesn’t work to remove “all of the blood” any more than slinging a butcher knife will remove the blood there . . . In short, it is a MYTH that the blood can be shaken from the blade.

True, which is why I called it an exaggeration — you did better.  But it’s a well-known myth thanks to those movies (and other media), so the lack of blood on that samurai’s blade doesn’t make this look any less like he just cut that man to pieces, and doesn’t make the pic any less violent.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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we have a saying in the USA, “Innocent until PROVEN guilty” basically it means you can look guilty but you are presumed to be innocent of any crime until all the facts are in. I find it doubtful that some one could hack up a body as severely as that and not have a spec of blood on their clothing or any on their sword. So to my mind the image portrays someone who found this gruesome scene, not someone who caused it. So to me I see an act of discovery, not an act of violence.

As for the amount of blood and gore in the image, i see more blood and gore when making steaks for my lunch.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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(i) the semiotics of the image are not, so to speak, worth shedding blood over

(ii) the TOS referred to are the forum TOS - the store is DAZ central’s to police and rule on.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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KickAir 8P - 17 November 2012 01:05 PM
Kendall Sears - 17 November 2012 12:40 PM
KickAir 8P - 17 November 2012 12:23 PM
LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 12:03 PM

As for the product promotional images. I don’t see a single act of violence portrayed in any of them. As has been pointed out already, there is no blood on the sword . . .

Samurai swords are well-known for being cleanable by a hard swing through air (which is an exaggeration, but still).  So the lack of visible blood on the blade doesn’t make this look any less violent . . .

This is called “ochiburi”.  And it doesn’t work to remove “all of the blood” any more than slinging a butcher knife will remove the blood there . . . In short, it is a MYTH that the blood can be shaken from the blade.

True, which is why I called it an exaggeration — you did better.  But it’s a well-known myth thanks to those movies (and other media), so the lack of blood on that samurai’s blade doesn’t make this look any less like he just cut that man to pieces, and doesn’t make the pic any less violent.

Where is the violence in the picture?  No one is in the act of killing, or otherwise violating anyone.  The word you’re looking for is “gruesome”, or maybe “appalling”, possibly “ghastly”.  The picture is definitely “grisly”, “macabre”, and “morbid”.  For some it may be “repulsive”, or “horrific”.

You know, I’m feeling an itch to watch “Lone Wolf and Cub”  grin  Now THERE is some violence.  grin

Kendall

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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LycanthropeX - 17 November 2012 01:07 PM

. . . As for the amount of blood and gore in the image, i see more blood and gore when making steaks for my lunch.

Human blood and gore?  gulp
 
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Richard Haseltine - 17 November 2012 01:11 PM

(i) the semiotics of the image are not, so to speak, worth shedding blood over

(ii) the TOS referred to are the forum TOS - the store is DAZ central’s to police and rule on.

I’m sorry Richard, but just to make sure I understood you:  DAZ’s Terms of Service do not apply to DAZ’s Store?

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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I’m going to give people who find “(insertimagetypeofyourchoicehere)” image offensive a little tip…

First copy the offending image url then find the spot in your browser that allows you to block things (in Opera it’s Tools>Avanced>Blocked Content) and then add the url for the offending image to your blocked content list.  Then you go here, https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/requests/new , to contact DAZ directly about the offending image.

That will likely get you better results then coming into the forum and attacking a PA & their product (which is against the TOS).

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