Digital Art Zone

Hello,
My name is Stefan. Sorry if this post is confusing. I have a lot rolling around in my head and I’m trying to get it out in a coherent post.

Recently found and picked up DS 4.5. I just found the tutorials on YouTube tonight.

I have been checking out the stuff in the store and noticed a lot of stuff geared toward V4, M4, and similar. I figure out V4 is Victoria 4 and M4 is Michael 4, an so on. When I did searches for V4 I found things like this,
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/victoria-4-2-complete/
and this,
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/people/women/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis

I’m trying to figure out if one or both are “needed” to get where I can use the other stuff I see for V4. Hopefully this makes sense.

I’m sure I will have many more questions. Have to learn to crawl before you can walk.

Hi! I think which figure do you want to use as your main?

if you want to use Victoria4 , you just buy http://www.daz3d.com/shop/victoria-4-2-complete/

Victoria 4 is famous figure about poser user and ds user too as you know.

on the other hand if you want to use genesis (perfectly much to ds 4.5 I think)
, you better buy vicoria 5 or Micheal 5 and products for her.

genesis and victoria 4 is perfectly different figure about weight map system, and rigging.

so you can not use the Vicotira 4 bundle for genesis basically.
then VIctoria 5 is character morph for genesis new figure of ds 4.
(with individual material and etc)

and vicotira 4 and micheal 4 for genesis,
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/people/women/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
is shape morph for genesis. that means, you can change genesis shape as like as victoria 4 and micheal 4,
but it is not Vicotira 4 or mickeal 4.(weight map, rig, morphs etc)

so you better to decide. which figure you want to use first.
(of course there are some tools which can use V4 items and character for genesis,
but it is better after you play with genesis, and decide you need them or not)

The blind leading the blind. I’m a newbie too (using Daz for all of 1 day now). I, too, was all confused about all these ‘codes’ - G2, M3, M4, V4 etc. It’s still not all straight in my head, but I did learn a little bit (trial and error, plus one very good posting that solved a big problem for me) , and here’s what little I know.

I installed the freebie Genesis set that Daz gives you. Played with the male and female figures for a while. Then bought M4 - only because I saw a LOT of wardrobe etc. for the M4 figure. Installed it and ... nothing. All I could see and use was the free Genesis figures. Was driving me nuts - and I was SURE that the problem was because I chose to put all the content stuff onto a different hard drive than the application (I have a smallish SSD drive for my OS and applications, and didn’t want to overload it).

But - that wasn’t the problem at all. The problem was that (in my newbie understanding of things anyway) the Genesis system is a totally different way of viewing the characters and props. The Genesis stuff is all located on the LEFT side of the screen. And the M4 figures don’t show up there. The M4 figure is an ‘older’ figure - meaning non-Genesis. Meaning that the characters and props etc. all show up on the RIGHT side of the screen - which I believe is the way everything worked prior to the introduction of Genesis. Ya gotta hunt around to find things, drill down through folder hierarchy etc., to find your character and materials and props. As it turned out, the M4 guy was listed under ‘Poser’ characters. (I would NEVER have found him without that very helpful posting I mentioned above—- I can see the obvious benefit of the Genesis way of doing things ... it’s all pretty visible in panels on the left).

So what this all told me is that if a figure is #5 or above, it’s Genesis and you manipulate things from the left panel (Smart content etc.), and if it’s an earlier model than #5 (say M3 or V4), then it’s the older ‘non-Genesis’ version of the character and all the stuff is manipulated on the RIGHT panel.

And I don’t think that much of the ‘stuff’ is interchangeable - that is, wardrobe items for a V4 figure might not work with the V5 (Genesis) figure. And vice versa.

I suspect that most Daz users have both - Genesis and earlier items - and use what suits best at the moment. I think that there’s a lot more older stuff out there right now, while Genesis is in its growing stages, but as kitakoredaz says - ya just gotta decide what you want and need and ... do it. Either will work.

Hi spswafford
welcome

The latest version of Daz Studio 4.5 comes with the NEW (Genesis figure)
I’f you’re new to this software you can start out by using that Genesis figure,. and you can expand the creative possibilities by purchasing additional figure shapes, skin textures, clothing and hair.

If you’ve been using Daz Studio for years , and perhaps started with Victoria 3, Michael 3 or Victoria 4 / Michael 4 models,. then you may already have a library of skin textures, clothing etc… built to fit those figures.

Normally,. (before genesis was developed) the clothing for Victoria 4, would only work on that model,. and the same applies to the other figures such as V3, M3. M4 etc… clothing was built to fit the figure.

NOW,. with Daz Studio, and Genesis,. the clothing for Victoria 4, or 3, can be used on the Genesis figure, and will adjust to fit that model,
If you also have the (Iconic shapes for genesis)
which provide the ability to either change the shape of genesis into one of those older figures,. or have

If you want to use V4/M4 clothing on Genesis, you’ll need the (Iconic shapes for genesis) to supply the original shape, so that the new Auto-fit technology, can adjust “older clothing”  and fit it to the new Genesis shape.

Hope that makes sense

I suspect that most Daz users have both - Genesis and earlier items - and use what suits best at the moment. I think that there’s a lot more older stuff out there right now, while Genesis is in its growing stages, but as kitakoredaz says - ya just gotta decide what you want and need and ... do it. Either will work.

yes,, you are right,, and the more beteran user play with daz studio or daz figure,
the more,,  say good things about them,,^^; and may not say bad things.

the feeling is dffernt I think, how you feel about “auto-fit” or their compatibility.

as for me,, U can use V4 or M4 items with auto-fit.
but U may not content with the quality. I never content them when I use auto-fit. never.

it is same about V4 and M4 character can be used with tools (you need to buy them)

yes you can, but it is different,, just use or perfectly same.

so why need to buy the not fit so much products for genesis?!

but I understand,, yes you said,,  there are more and more items for V4 and M4 than genesis.
it often catch your eye than genesis items.

but ,, you remember,, the products are made for V4 and M4 not genesis.

I understand now.. the beteran user have many technic and know well about 3D figure,, so they may not feel problems if you
think it is problem ^^;
.

For my own part, I’m using V4.2 and M4 almost exclusively at this time because, for the time being, these figures still have the widest available range of characters, hair, clothing and props.  I understand Genesis can use V4/M4 items but just haven’t gotten around to experimenting with it yet.

As you’ve learned by now, older (basically anything before the end of last year, from what I can gather) items, both Poser and Daz, are installed in /User/My Documents/Daz 3D/Studio/My Library, and will appear, when you start Daz Studio, in the “Content Library” which appears on the right-hand side of the Daz Studio window by default, though you can change the position of window elements to suit. The vast majority of items designed for V4/M4, from my observation so far, have originally been designed for Poser. However, almost all such items will work in Daz Studio, though you might have to make adjustments to various features - morphs, mats, etc. - to cause the item to work 100% correctly in Daz Studio. (cf. a thread I recently posted here concerning my attempts to get a pair of V4 boots and a pair of V4 stockings, designed by two different people, to work together properly. I’ve actually cracked the case though I will still have to make adjustments depending on figure pose.)

Thanks all for you answers.

Still not quite able to connect the dots on this. It sounds like V5, M5, and the other #5 models are Genesis shapes and skins. The iconic shapes are just that, shapes. But what would you skin them with? Any skins that work for that model series?

I’m hoping you guys can get my head straight so I can take advange of the current People Catagory sale.

Have been looking through the sale stuff and I think I’m getting a better understanding.

Genesis eleminates the need for morphs that series #4 and older needed, correct? Because the Genesis model allows for any varience depending on the shapes you have available to you, correct? If those questions are correct, I’m still a bit confused about the iconic shape and when they might come into play.

Anyway, If I’m thinking correctly, it might be good for me to start of with one or more of these,

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/stephanie-5
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/michael-5
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/victoria-5

and some sort of scene to put them in.

What started me down the 3D modeling path was some fantasy pics I saw. I knew computers had come a long way, but had not been paying attention to computer graphic arts. After seeing a few pics and finding out a little about the software that made it possible, I thought “hey, I think I can do that”.

Right now, I’m looking at this as more of a hobby, but if I get good enough who knows. I would like to create my own fantasy pics and maybe try to duplicate some of the 2D images I have seen in to 3D (just to see if I can). With that in mind, besides the models listed above, it seems like I might want these,

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-evolution-morph-bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-creature-creator-bundle

I was also thinking about this,

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-evolution-muscularity

but that seems like overkill with the other morph bundles. (I also saw skeleton and muscles sets, but I think that is stuff for pre-Genesis models.)

Other than what I’ve listed, it seems like I would just need wigs and clothes.

Hopefully, giving you guys a better idea where I think I want to go, will help you to get me pointed in the right direction.

Very Quick explanation: All figures are named by a Generation number so V1 was the very first Victoria, V3 the third and V4 the Last or a Gen4 Figure. Every new generation was an improvement over the last version. When the Generation 4 (Gen4) figures came out things started to get good, by that I mean one Figure could become more than one shape. All figures before Gen4 where each a different mesh (object mesh file) so they where each needed to Have that figure. Example: To have V3 and A3 in the same Image you had to have V3 and A3 (These stand for Victoria 3 and Akio 3) and load BOTH figures. Each had their on texture sets, their own clothing and their on pose files. Then the Gen4 Figures came along. The Gen4 figures were the first to use Shape files or Full Body Morph shapes.

The Gen4 figures started using one base shape to create the other figure shapes. With the Victoria 4 shape you could now add the Akio 4 shape, and She Freak 4 and all the Female Gen4 shapes to just the one figure. That now let one figure use ALL the textures for V4 on the other Gen4 female shapes. It also let most of the Clothing for Gen4 females be used on the other shapes. And all Gen4 poses for them worked on each shape because it was just one figure SHAPED into other characters. The Gen4 Males were the same Micheal4 and Freak4 could now share textures clothes and poses as well. You needed V4 and M4 to use the other Gen4 figures. Then comes the NEW Genesis.

Genesis is the one and only Gen5 figure, the V5 and M5 and other figures for genesis are all Gen5 Shapes that only work with the Genesis Figure. The V5 and M5 are just to show that they are only for the New figure just as Akio4 (A4) was a shape for the V4 figure only. The great part with Genesis is it will take Gen4 textures for V4 or M4 and use the clothing also (Some works better than others on this part). With expansions you can also use Gen3 clothing. Genesis is the end result of all the Generations.

Now, about the Smart Content. Only Gen5 OR updated Gen4 items will show up as smart content. All the older content was designed to work in both Daz Studio and Poser. For that to work it was all designed as Poser content with Extra Daz3D files to make them work better without extra work by a Daz Studio user. The new Genesis (Gen5) figures were designed for Daz Studio FIRST so Daz3D added the Metadata to them only (the file that makes them Smart). All the Older content that does not have Metadata (Not Updated yet) will only show up in the Content Library Tab or the Poser Format folders in Daz Studio 4 and above.

I hope this has helped some.

now sale time,, (though daz often sale,, but sometimes you can not get what you want as sale prices,,
so I say about daz shop people items for genesis )

as you know genesis has some morphs already, and the best point of genesis,
it is so easy to make new shape with combination of morphs.

I do not know daz planning the new character for V5 or stehpanie5 ,
and which base character morph for genesis will have more character morph,
but you can serch morphs or charcter,  comaptibility with genesis,

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people?compat_figures=28&p=1

about your selection morphs. good selection ^^b

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-evolution-morph-bundle
Genesis Evolution: Morph Bundle is official daz base head morphs and body morphs for genesis.i think.

I recommend to buy it first .  (or serch bandle which conclude this morph,
eg genesis starter bundle)

of course if you get this morph, you can tweak more each part of genesis shape.
and,, some genesis character morphs need this official base morph to work well.

(if you like to use free items and serch free , lets check thread in forum ^^
I have no intention to help sales of daz. )

about victoria 5 bundle, stephanie 5 bundle, there are character which need these base morph.^^;

when I did not get evolution-morph,, it often make me disapointed,, one character need another morph,,
and,, what moprh you may need is different about each character.

eg “Asobi” need “hitomi” for genesis .
Riley need “stehpanie 5” ,genesis head morph”,“genesis body morph” .

about bandle,,

if you plan to buy bundle of vicotira 5 or stephanie 5,, I dare to say buy “Pro”  bundle.
not starter. yuo may need “genesis anatomy” for your art. I think.  as for me,,
first get only starter bandle,, then serch it,, in daz shop.. but no,,
so I needed to buy “pro bandle” again TT)

it is same about “M5”,, so hiro 5 pro bandle has it? I did not know ^^;

and I recommend https://www.daz3d.com/shop/genesis-evolution-expressions

to apply base morphs for genesis. (not character morph)

this product is expression morph. so you can apply expression to your genesis by controller^^
It must be useful,, you can mix each expression easily.

if you tweak these basic morphs, (evolution morphs and expression morph)
you may learn clear how to shape each body parts of genesis (with V5 or S5, or basicfemale genesis)
as you hope in parameter tab. or shape tab.

then your choice,,

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-creature-creator-bundle

if you like fantasy, and make creature,, it may become base shape morph of your characters.
it has many shape,, so you can enjoy mixing them. yes actuall it is useful for me.
because i can not make well by 3D modeller,these creature shape.
but I can use it for base, then can tweak. it is much easy,,.to create monster or creature.

I think,, first you play and create your character with these base shape morphs.
then when you feel to need another shapes,  serch new morph or character for mix them.

you more need to get clothings for fantasy,, and hairs . ( about genesis,
these are the real problem to serch what I want,,so you better check each items in bundle too.
eg,, this bundle has good hair, but another bundle has not it,, but good basic wear,, etc)

there will be another sales,, (chrsitmas sale,, or new year sale or,, about each category,, maybe next weekend ^^;)
“clothing” “Hair” etc,,so it is better wait sale time..

about skin material , you can use V4, M4 skin for genesis without problem.

if you bought character products for V4, then you want to use the skin for genesis female,or V5,
yes you can.  no problem I think. and poze for V4 M4 can work with genesis too, if you apply it to genesis usually work.
(you need some tweak or serch tool to correct foot and hand, but it is not so big problem I think.

but about shape morph,,or clothing,, basically it can not worth to buy and try for genesis.
I recommend get free items for V4 or M4 , then check them with genesis.about poze, about clothings about hair etc.
after that, you think it can work well,, buy everyhitng you want^^

HI

The iconic shapes are just that, shapes. But what would you skin them with?

The “Shapes” are “Morphs” .... but they’re also used as a BASE, for Auto-fit to adjust any clothing designed for those figures, and make it work on Genesis.

They also provide the UV mapping set’s for those figures,. so that you can use textures for those figures on genesis.

Once you’ve installed the Iconic shapes,. you would see slider controls in the parameters section in DS, for Genesis, to allow you to adjust the shape of genesis,.. into Victoria 4, or Michael 4 etc..
these are genesis morph shapes,. they’re not additional figures which need to be textured separately.

Hope it helps

Thanks all. That was very helpful. By the way, besides the Daz shop, I do know about Renderosity and Content Paradise.

Based on Kit’s suggestions, it seems like I would get the most starting flexibility with
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-evolution-morph-bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/genesis-evolution-expressions

and maybe the Genesis Gen4 shapes. And for some of the fantasy stuff
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-creature-creator-bundle

I’m guessing
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/genesis-evolution-muscularity
is mainly if you want to have more muscle definition for your characters, correct?

Besides hair and clothes, would I also need to get some skin textures to go with these shapes or will the base skin in Daz/Genesis work? To clarify, skin textures beyond the base give you different looks (and in some cases are fitted to specific shapes like the Gen4 Iconic) correct?

HI spswafford

the Shapes,. are what is normally referred to as figure “Morphs” so,.. in practical terms , they’re seen as shape changing controls within the program,. which alter the shape of the genesis model.

the Iconic shapes also provide a base “reference” figure, for UV mapping and Auto-fit, so that clothes designed originally to be used on V3/V4 etc, can be used on genesis.

the skin texture’s can be applied to genesis, either before or after you adjust the shape of genesis to be a male / female / troll / child, etc…

there’s an option in the Daz Studio Surfaces tab, where you can Change the UV mapping to one for a different figure, such as V5. M5. V4, M4 etc.. depending on what figures you have. so that genesis can use those texture sets.

As for the actual textures,..
Any textures made for genesis will work on all possible figure variations.

You can also use textures from figures like V4, M4 etc.. and V3.M3 if you have those figure shapes.

Some genesis figures, such as Victoria 5, and Michael 5, come with a Skin texture set, as well as the new body / head shape.

skin textures beyond the base give you different looks (and in some cases are fitted to specific shapes like the Gen4 Iconic) correct?

the Iconic shapes for genesis, provide the Shape, but have no textures , as these are not separate figures, they give you the ability to change the genesis shape to any combination of those shapes.

hope that makes sense

Hey 3DAGE,
At first, your last post did not make sense. I did not fully understand It. I was looking around and found this
http://www.daz3d.com/products/genesis/genesis-what-is-genesis
(By the way, I’m getting the impression that Genesis is still new and things are just starting to come around for it, but it will make things more standardized)

When I watched the “See How Genesis Works” video about half way down the page, I read your response again and some things started falling into place. So if I have a Gen5 model and the Gen4 Iconic morphs, because of how Genesis works the Gen5 skin should work on another Genesis morph (V5 and V4 for example)(I think that was what you were saying), correct?

If that is not correct, let me try to explain my thinking. While reading these responses I’m going through the store, looking at stuff and I see something like this
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/mindy-for-v4-and-genesis

I see the requirement at the top “Genesis Evolution: Head Morphs”, ok no problem. Toward the bottom I see “Compatible 3D Figures - Genesis, Victoria 4”. If I understand correctly this can be used with the Genesis figure or V4 (or V4 Iconic if you do not have V4), correct?

Whereas something like this
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/celia
the requirement says V4.2 morph++. Does that only work with V4.2 morph++ or should it also work with V4 Iconic?

By the way, I’m guessing any clothes I see on these figues is optional unless listed as included?

Sorry if it seems like I’m going in circles.

spswafford - 18 November 2012 07:52 PM

Hey 3DAGE,
At first, your last post did not make sense. I did not fully understand It. I was looking around and found this
http://www.daz3d.com/products/genesis/genesis-what-is-genesis
(By the way, I’m getting the impression that Genesis is still new and things are just starting to come around for it, but it will make things more standardized)

Genesis is still new but now the Standard for many content creators (PA’s). The reason is Genesis can become any humanoid shape and it is easier to make clothing for. Once made the Clothing will work on 99% of any of the Genesis Shapes.

spswafford - 18 November 2012 07:52 PM

When I watched the “See How Genesis Works” video about half way down the page, I read your response again and some things started falling into place. So if I have a Gen5 model and the Gen4 Iconic morphs, because of how Genesis works the Gen5 skin should work on another Genesis morph (V5 and V4 for example)(I think that was what you were saying), correct?

Yes, all Genesis textures will work on ANY genesis shape.

spswafford - 18 November 2012 07:52 PM

If that is not correct, let me try to explain my thinking. While reading these responses I’m going through the store, looking at stuff and I see something like this
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/mindy-for-v4-and-genesis

I see the requirement at the top “Genesis Evolution: Head Morphs”, ok no problem. Toward the bottom I see “Compatible 3D Figures - Genesis, Victoria 4”. If I understand correctly this can be used with the Genesis figure or V4 (or V4 Iconic if you do not have V4), correct?

Yes, And even on the Generation 4 V4 character also.

spswafford - 18 November 2012 07:52 PM

Whereas something like this
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sales-promotions/daz-originals-people/celia
the requirement says V4.2 morph++. Does that only work with V4.2 morph++ or should it also work with V4 Iconic?

By the way, I’m guessing any clothes I see on these figues is optional unless listed as included?

Sorry if it seems like I’m going in circles.

This would only work on the Generation 4 V4 figure to create the shape of the character. You could use ALL the textures on Genesis in any of it’s shapes just by setting Genesis to use V4 UV maps. All V4 and M4 textures can be used on any Genesis shape just by setting it to use the proper UV map.

I hope this helps some.

Hi spswafford

Just to add ....

If a product is advertised for use on V4, ..and it says it requires the Morphs++ package for V4,..

what that means is that the head and body shape for that “Character” have been created using the Morphs++ product.

So,.. Although the Skin texture will work on Genesis (and any shape combinations you can change genesis into)

the actual head and body styling of that character, is only going to be achievable if you use the V4.2 base figure and the morphs++ for it.

The head and body shape of Genesis,. can be changed into V4’s default shape,. (if you have the iconic shapes)  but it wont change into all the possible ” Victoria 4 character” shapes,.

But,. the main Textures from that “V4 product”,. Will work on Genesis.

I believe there is a product called Gen X,.. which can allow you to transfer the morphs from a V4 figure, to Genesis if you wanted to accurately reproduce that “V4 character” (head and body shape) .. using the Genesis figure,. instead of V4.

it seems a bit pointless to me since you would need to have the V4 base figure, and the morphs++ pack, (and the V4 character) in order to be able to transfer all of the Morphs into genesis,..

it sounds simpler to load the character as it was intended,.. using the V4 model.

or use the textures from that character on Genesis, and change the face shape to something you like.

Hopefully hat makes some sense