Special Character search/request

digitelldigitell Posts: 312
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hi, I am in need of a character that has the features of a boy that has Down Syndrome. Does anyone have any info on if there is a character on the market out d? Or I would be happy to pay someone for the character. Would need to be for K4 or one of the Mil kids.
Thanks so much!

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Comments

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Hi!


    I've never seen one. The trouble is that for every person wanting to use something like that in a serious or inspirational way, we're afraid there will be fifty vicious idiots wanting to use it to make fun of the handicapped. I've heard the serious request before, though, so maybe someone has made one since then?

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,081
    edited November 2012

    Hmm... That's a bit of a touchy one. I've never seen anyone ask for something like this before.

    I'm even not sure if there's anything really catered to handicapped or special needs in any shape of form in 3D outside of maybe wheelchairs. I highly doubt many would chance it either. Your sincere intentions for such a character is deeply commendable, but SickleYield is right, it's a pretty risky tread on politically correct territory...

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited November 2012

    inspirational way

    Oh, God, please no ;) As a disability rights activist, 'inspirational' disability art drives me up the wall! I actually blogged about this during the Paralympics - http://davidg-flatout.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/living-in-fear-of-being-labelled.html and there were a whole bunch of blogs and articles on a similar theme by other disabled people.

    Which is not to say that you can't do disability themed art:

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  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    I highly doubt many would chance it either. Your sincere intentions for such a character is deeply commendable, but SickleYield is right, it's a pretty risky tread on politically correct territory...

    The other way of looking at it is that a blanket exclusion of disability themes says we aren't fit to appear in art, which is even more of a problem. Ultimately being 'politically correct' just means not being rude to people, and ignoring an entire demographic group would count, OTOH if you don't know whether it would be rude or not, that's probably a sign you need to know more about disabled people, both in general and with regard to disability-themed art.

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Wow..I was wondering if I should post such a topic because it is sensitive. I have been trying to create the character myself, but I am not that great at using the morphs to make a person look a certain way..I know there are artists out there that can make movie stars character look remarkably just like the star! I really did not mean to offend anyone, I have been hired to do a children's book and the lady I am working for is a special education teacher and her son is best friends with a boy who had Down Syndrome. It is a sweet story and I just needed a character that looks the part. Thank you all for your postings and maybe I can swing it..I will certainly give it my best shot!

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    digitell said:
    I really did not mean to offend anyone,

    Don't worry, I don't see anything here to take offense at, and WRT the book, just treat the character with Downs Syndrome exactly as you would treat any other character.

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Hi DWG thank you. :) I am not writing the book myself..the lady I am working for has written the book..she just wants me to do the illustrations for it so that is why I was in need of this character.
    Thanks so much for posting :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,350
    edited November 2012

    I would think you could get pretty close to what you are looking for if you find a character with eastern characteristics and use that as a base for more dial spinning. Something like children of the world

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/children-of-the-world or maybe Rascals http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rascals

    May give you a starting point.

    Edited to add a very quick attempt using CHildren of the world, and default lights in Poser.

    Possible_down_Syndrome_child._.png
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    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hmm... That's a bit of a touchy one. I've never seen anyone ask for something like this before.

    I'm even not sure if there's anything really catered to handicapped or special needs in any shape of form in 3D outside of maybe wheelchairs. I highly doubt many would chance it either. Your sincere intentions for such a character is deeply commendable, but SickleYield is right, it's a pretty risky tread on politically correct territory...

    It's a physical characteristic. And how about amputated limbs? Anyone know where one can find a decent morph for M4/V4/K4/Genesis?

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,081
    edited November 2012

    DWG said:
    I highly doubt many would chance it either. Your sincere intentions for such a character is deeply commendable, but SickleYield is right, it's a pretty risky tread on politically correct territory...

    The other way of looking at it is that a blanket exclusion of disability themes says we aren't fit to appear in art, which is even more of a problem. Ultimately being 'politically correct' just means not being rude to people, and ignoring an entire demographic group would count, OTOH if you don't know whether it would be rude or not, that's probably a sign you need to know more about disabled people, both in general and with regard to disability-themed art.


    Trust me, I know disability. I'm medically disabled with Autism and went to school with kids of many different kinds of disabilities.

    It's a physical characteristic. And how about amputated limbs? Anyone know where one can find a decent morph for M4/V4/K4/Genesis?


    Exactly. One that many developers or artists might not feel comfortable creating.

    The point is, yes, there are those who would see it as an exclusion for not being "fit" enough, but what about those that would take their appearances the wrong way? There would definitely be those that would make cases out of them for something like "looking to stereotypical". I actually knew a woman who I had my Poser class with who absolutely was appalled by the appearances of the Girl's 1940's idealistic proportions and found the term "Freak" for a person with large muscles to be down-right offensive, specially a "She-Freak".

    I don't mean do sound challenging, but it's like I said, it IS a very sensitive and risky media marketing subject. For those of you familiar with the very popular show, "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic", was met with controversy during its recent season over an episode featuring a wall-eyed, clumsy, oddly voiced Pegasus named "Derpy Whooves". Upon receiving numerous phone calls from parents of disabled children, Hasbro had to pull and edit the part of the episode where she was featured such as reanimating her eyes and redub her lines with a different voice actor. No harm was intended or is intended with these kinds of things, of course, but again, you really have to be careful.

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    I would think you could get pretty close to what you are looking for if you find a character with eastern characteristics and use that as a base for more dial spinning. Something like children of the world

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/children-of-the-world or maybe Rascals http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rascals

    May give you a starting point.

    Edited to add a very quick attempt using CHildren of the world, and default lights in Poser.


    Wow Chohole you did a remarkable job on that character! I do have Children of the World and I never thought of using it. Thank you so much for posting this..and for trying to help! Thank you! :)

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    If one doesn't have the tools, how can a scene in a hospital be rendered? I find it more appalling that some would de facto 'ban' the use of morphs depicting disabled people. I find them quite offensive, as they use 'sensitivity' as a bad excuse, some sort of screen to hide away people that in fact do exist. That I haven't rendered a scene inside a hospital is due to I haven't the right digital content yet.

    And those who would make pictures that portray disabled in a negative way, will find one way or another; Photoshopping etc. regardless of what the rest of us do. There's an expression that comes to mind; Don't cut off your chin when shaving.

  • Proxima ShiningProxima Shining Posts: 1,001
    edited December 1969

    I think when someone wants to make renders which show handicaped people in a negative way or make fun of them, then this person surely finds a way to do so. It should not be an excuse for refusing to create such morphs. Without the morphs it is more difficult to create a render featuring someone with Down syndrome, but what about paraplegic, deaf or blind people? Their handicaps are not that hard to portray, a render with them would be fairly easy to do. So it sounds a bit strange to me that people whose handicaps are more visible should be protected, but those with non-visible or easily portrayed handicaps not. Is it worse to humiliate a blind person, or to humiliate someone with Dow Syndrome? I think it is equally wrong. And of course the person who does the render is resposible, not the one who made the morph.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,350
    edited November 2012

    digitell said:
    chohole said:
    I would think you could get pretty close to what you are looking for if you find a character with eastern characteristics and use that as a base for more dial spinning. Something like children of the world

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/children-of-the-world or maybe Rascals http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rascals

    May give you a starting point.

    Edited to add a very quick attempt using CHildren of the world, and default lights in Poser.


    Wow Chohole you did a remarkable job on that character! I do have Children of the World and I never thought of using it. Thank you so much for posting this..and for trying to help! Thank you! :)


    You are welcome. My best friend had a 2nd son who was downs syndrome, and he was the most cheerful child I have ever come across, and a lovely little fellow. Nearly always had a smile on his face.

    One thing I most remember about him was one day he had been arguing with his Mum, and decided he was going to leave home, and go to live with "Auntie Pam" which is me. I lived next door to them at that time. He went upstairs, packed his little suitcase, left through the front door, came and knocked on my front door, and solemnly told me he had come to live with me. When he unpacked his little case it contained his teddy bear. I tucked him up with my boys for the night, with lots of giggles coming from the room before they settled down. Next day after his adventure he packed teddy back in the case and went home again, just in time for my firend to get him ready for the school bus when it came to collect him.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    digitell said:
    chohole said:
    I would think you could get pretty close to what you are looking for if you find a character with eastern characteristics and use that as a base for more dial spinning. Something like children of the world

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/children-of-the-world or maybe Rascals http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rascals

    May give you a starting point.

    Edited to add a very quick attempt using CHildren of the world, and default lights in Poser.


    Wow Chohole you did a remarkable job on that character! I do have Children of the World and I never thought of using it. Thank you so much for posting this..and for trying to help! Thank you! :)


    You are welcome. My best friend had a 2nd son who was downs syndrome, and he was the most cheerful child I have ever come across, and a lovely little fellow. Nearly always had a smile on his face.

    One thing I most remember about him was one day he had been arguing with his Mum, and decided he was going to leave home, and go to live with "Auntie Pam" which is me. I lived next door to them at that time. He went upstairs, packed his little suitcase, left through the front door, came and knocked on my front door, and solemnly told me he had come to live with me. When he unpacked his little case it contained his teddy bear. I tucked him up with my boys for the night, with lots of giggles coming from the room before they settled down. Next day after his adventure he packed teddy back in the case and went home again, just in time for my firend to get him ready for the school bus when it came to collect him.

    OMG that is sooo funny! He really thought he put his foot down heh! ( well I guess he actually did hehe ).. It is good that you lived so close! Glad he had a good time :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,350
    edited December 1969

    It was a real bonus for both my friend and I when we got the chance to be rehoused and found that the local council had allocated us houses next door to each other.

    I really admired my friend. Her husband had Cerebral Palsy which affected his lower lims, so walked with sticks and used an invalid vehicle. Her elder son unfortunately inherited the same. She was told that the condition was an inhertied one, through the male genes, and if she had more male children there was a chance that they could be handicapped in some way. She refused any Amniocentesis tests, as she wouldn't countenance an abortion, and little Lee was her 2nd child. Her husband and her children were her life.

    Her sons and my sons became as good friends as we were, and her sons really taught my sons a lot about what life can throw at people. Both my sons would protect their friends from anyone who tried to take advantage of them or insult them in any way.

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    That was really some great luck that you guys were able to get homes next door to each other! It worked out perfect for you and your friend and for your kids! Your kids will more than likely become life long friends and will be able to help each other thru out their lives..you are so fortunate! :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,350
    edited December 1969

    Well we now live mre than 200 miles away, and our sons are all grown up. My Youngest Son is currently Studying at Dublin Met Uni, for a BSc, and teaching degree, as a mature student . When he passes (I refuse to say if) he is planning on teaching "Special Needs" children.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited November 2012

    DWG said:
    I highly doubt many would chance it either. Your sincere intentions for such a character is deeply commendable, but SickleYield is right, it's a pretty risky tread on politically correct territory...

    The other way of looking at it is that a blanket exclusion of disability themes says we aren't fit to appear in art, which is even more of a problem. Ultimately being 'politically correct' just means not being rude to people, and ignoring an entire demographic group would count, OTOH if you don't know whether it would be rude or not, that's probably a sign you need to know more about disabled people, both in general and with regard to disability-themed art.


    That's not completely fair to the individual artist that you're asking to take the risk.


    I think this, rather than racism, is why you see fewer nonwhite characters in renders as well. I think people with all skin colors are beautiful - but I'm afraid to use them in many situations (as victims of monsters, as monsters themselves, as barbarians, etc.) that might seem patronizing or inappropriate in a racial sense. It's easier to just have the studly barbarian be white than seem to imply anything racist about black people being primitive (as an example). This means fewer black people in my art, and maybe that's bad, but what do I do?


    The Downs one is harder because it's a kid and because of the specific subject. I've done hearing aids (for example) and I've seen amputee freebies around.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • Eustace ScrubbEustace Scrubb Posts: 1,364
    edited November 2012

    Trust me, I know disability. I'm medically disabled with Autism and went to school with kids of many different kinds of disabilities.

    Autists unite! ;)

    Seriously, though, I've wondered myself how one could (not PC-ism "how could you!") do justice to Autism in a character depiction without condescending or artificially glamorizing it. Of course, it'd be a narrative depiction more than straight visuals, as there are few enough anatomical/physionomic symptoms. (I count myself autist too, though not disablingly so: so far I have gotten along with the neurotypical populace enough not to require an actual, clinical evaluation, but my Aspergers' is plain enough to those who know what they're looking at. And my son is officially "somewhere on the 'spectrum'" as it's called.) But for a character to be believably autist, the creator needs to portray it from the inside. Sheldon Cooper (Big Bang Theory) is recognizably caricatured as an Aspie, but he seems more a caricature of the type by outward observers than a depiction from experience. The protagonist in "Dog in the Night-Time" is in some ways worse.

    ETA: not meaning to highjack the thread, but it is a relevant sort of question: how can we rightly depict characters with various disabilities (amputees are comparatively easy next to CP, Downs, et cet.) without caricaturing them into their ¿dis?ability instead of celebrating their humanity?

    Post edited by Eustace Scrubb on
  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 390
    edited April 2014

    Post edited by bad4u on
  • Virtual_WorldVirtual_World Posts: 275
    edited November 2012

    Years ago I received a special request from a parent of a child with trisomy 21 (down syndrome) and I created a free morphs that you can find here: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=59302

    It was originally created for a Victoria 4.

    Edit to add: I didn't read the whole thread for that reason I didn't see your post bad4u. Sorry for the double post.

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  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Hi Virtual World! I love your products! Just bought one yesterday :) Have others from you too! Thank you sooo much for the link to this freebie and thank you for creating it! She looks wonderful! I can copy her dials onto the K4 and I am sure it will work great! Thanks so very much! Thanks for those who posted trying to help me find this character..it is for a children's book about 2 boys who are best friends and one of them happens to have DS. It is really a sweet story and I will enjoy doing the illustrations for it. Thanks again you guys! :)

  • PennamePenname Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Impressive, sensitive, mature thread. Great community.

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Well we now live mre than 200 miles away, and our sons are all grown up. My Youngest Son is currently Studying at Dublin Met Uni, for a BSc, and teaching degree, as a mature student . When he passes (I refuse to say if) he is planning on teaching "Special Needs" children.

    200 miles is quite the move! And your boy is studing for a teaching degree! He must be very ambitious because teaching is no easy task. My step Mom is a teacher and she works so hard. Teaching special needs will be a rewarding challenge and congratulations in advance! Cheers! :)

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Penname said:
    Impressive, sensitive, mature thread. Great community.

    This is a great community indeed! Anytime I come here to ask for help on finding something someone ALWAYS posts with help and guidance. There are alot of great people here! :)

  • Virtual_WorldVirtual_World Posts: 275
    edited December 1969

    Thank you digitell for your comments about my products! I tried to create a boy using Melissa's morphs plus dialing V4's male morphs and converting Happy Kids textures with TC2. The most difficult part was to find the clothing. Here is a render with the result.

    MelissaMale.jpg
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  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Thank you digitell for your comments about my products! I tried to create a boy using Melissa's morphs plus dialing V4's male morphs and converting Happy Kids textures with TC2. The most difficult part was to find the clothing. Here is a render with the result.

    Hi Virtual World. My he looks wonderful! Did you use the V4 Male Morph? I guess one could scale the body down to be a child size,,he looks great and you did it so quickly!! I did grab your Melissa morph and it works great on V4. I have her and the K4 side by side and I select her head and see the morph for a certain part of the head then select the K4 head and move the dial to match. I think it wil work great! Thanks again for your generous gift of this morph! :)

  • Virtual_WorldVirtual_World Posts: 275
    edited December 1969

    digitell, I am trying to create a new face for K4. I cannot finish it right now because I have to go out now; but I will try to finish it when I return to home. I will be posting it as a free item.

  • digitelldigitell Posts: 312
    edited December 1969

    Oh wow..I didnt expect you to do that at all...I would be willing to pay you something for it really. Thank you so much for doing it! I know creating morphs are time consuming!
    I am most grateful! Have a good time out :)

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