Digital Art Zone

 
   
3 of 6
3
Better Renderer?
Posted: 06 November 2012 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1104
Joined  2005-07-29

I did my part as witnessed by the tutorials in my sig which I will gladly donate.

Anyone want to volunteer their time for this?

Unpaid and requires time but many people will be grateful.

Whose with me? *smile*

 Signature 

<End of transmission from Oz>
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis/G2F/G2M Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.6 by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Partial Body Morph in DAZ Studio Pro 4 Using the DForm Tool by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Applying Shaders by RKane_1 (as stolen blatantly from Jaderail)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 12:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1874
Joined  2006-02-17
RKane_1 - 06 November 2012 12:00 AM

I did my part as witnessed by the tutorials in my sig which I will gladly donate.

Anyone want to volunteer their time for this?

Unpaid and requires time but many people will be grateful.

Whose with me? *smile*

I didn’t mean to imply that you (RKane_1) weren’t helping, as we all can see that you are.  Trust me when I say that I’m busy helping in other ways and that I will help with docs when I’m done with these other things.

grin

Kendall

 Signature 

Any opinions expressed in this post are those of Kendall Sears and may, or may not, be more, or less, valid than any other opinion.

The contents of this post are intended for the DAZ forum only, do not re-post any portion to any other forum without his permission.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  32
Joined  2005-05-03

I think the problem is that most of us simply don’t know enough to write a tutorial.

I can do the basics, and I slowly am learning bits and pieces, but for me I find it’s easier to buy a lighting set than to find a tutorial which may or may not explain lighting in a way I can understand.

Most of the time I read tutorials and still think huh?

I need Daz for dummies complete with pictures, and in the main people who write the tutorials believe that things they think everyone knows (like exactly where something is) we don’t.

Add to that different layouts so that things really are in different places and you compound the problem.

Sparkles

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2303
Joined  2010-12-18
Sprinkles - 06 November 2012 04:47 AM

for me I find it’s easier to buy a lighting set than to find a tutorial which may or may not explain lighting in a way I can understand.

I think this is part of the overall practice for Daz consumers and Daz as a vendor.

As a vendor it cost money to have a dedicated technical writer. Documentation makes it easier to find solutions but why spend money there when you know that SOMEBODY will figure things out and sell the solution to others. Especially when you make money off sales of that solution most of the time. I am not saying Daz does not facilitate things like a wiki or even these forums but proper documentation is far from their strong suit. Even with good documentation doesn’t mean as many people will read it as they say initially, so selling presets is a viable solution. You can actually learn a lot from them as well.

And we as consumers have proven we are willing to pay for presets.

 Signature 

My deviantArt Pinup Gallery

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1310
Joined  2003-12-16

Lighting for Daz Studio using 3Delight by maclean.
http://digilander.libero.it/maclean/DStutorial.htm

If lighting is your week point, and it was mine I found switching to LuxRender for the majority of my projects was a turning point in my renders looking as though they were not planed out by the morlocks, but that was my shortcoming, not the fault of a rendering engine that does work four countless other pros and hobbyists alike.


I think it might help if we had a matrix of rendering engine options for deployed software, for instance (and this is a total “shoot from the hip” response:

DS3.1.2.32 Rendering Engines:

• 3Delight 8.5 (internal or stand alone)
http://www.3delight.com

• LuxRender 0.7 -  0.9 (using Reality 1.x), 0.9 - 1.01 (using Reality 2.0), 0.7 - 1.0 (using LuxRenderDS)
http://www.luxrender.net
http://preta3d.com/reality-2-0/
http://tofusan.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2011/06/luxrenderds-eab.html

• Octane ver x.x
http://render.otoy.com/

• PovRay ver x.x
http://www.povray.org/

• Cycles (using blender 2.6.x and Casual’s exporter.)
http://www.blender.org
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts/mcjteleblender-for-ds1-2-3-4

If there was a list like this for DS3, DS4, Poser, etc. it might make a useful resource of what is available and how it works.

 

 Signature 

Gravy to potatoes, Luke to Darth Vader, I’m a souped up sucker and I’ll see you all later

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2303
Joined  2010-12-18

Only challenge with a complete list is that in theory anything that rendering solution that can open OBJ could be included…

And for the purposes of the OP I think presets would be a good start. Lighting and material tutorials are very technical and I find they are easier to understand after playing around with presets for a while. Let me find a link

Ok
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5320/ -Uberenvironment talk

There used to be a link to adamr001 uber light preset which was just a flat white which was good to start with. Can’t find it.

EDIT: Here is the link Post that has his preset http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5320/P30/#67987

Granted this is just a flat white setup, and for me the specular was too high. But regardless if you are starting without a lot of experience seeing how this was set up can help things make more sense.

The link StratDragon posted is supposed to be a good one, I’ve seen it referenced a lot.

 

 Signature 

My deviantArt Pinup Gallery

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1104
Joined  2005-07-29
Sprinkles - 06 November 2012 04:47 AM

I think the problem is that most of us simply don’t know enough to write a tutorial.

I can do the basics, and I slowly am learning bits and pieces, but for me I find it’s easier to buy a lighting set than to find a tutorial which may or may not explain lighting in a way I can understand.

Most of the time I read tutorials and still think huh?

I need Daz for dummies complete with pictures, and in the main people who write the tutorials believe that things they think everyone knows (like exactly where something is) we don’t.

Add to that different layouts so that things really are in different places and you compound the problem.

Sparkles

I actually learned how to morph by writing my tutorial. I started making step by step instructions, copied and pasted bits from other threads, asked questions of experts ( as JoeQuick,  Rbtwhiz, Richard Haseltine, etc can all attest,  I am a persistent questioner) and then used trial and error. I learned SO much writing the tutorials.

I recommend finding a topic you are unclear on and using this method. It is quite educational. Learn by teaching.

 Signature 

<End of transmission from Oz>
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis/G2F/G2M Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.6 by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Partial Body Morph in DAZ Studio Pro 4 Using the DForm Tool by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Applying Shaders by RKane_1 (as stolen blatantly from Jaderail)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 08:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  715
Joined  2008-05-05

It’s funny… the more I re-read this thread, the more I ask myself, which platform do I use more, and why?  The answer, for me, is simple.  Since I find them both easy to use and capable of the render quality I’m after, it all comes down to speed.  With a third party render engine, the speed question is moot—Lux will render the same scene to the same quality in the same amount of time, regardless of whether it was created in DS or Poser.  So the render engine can certainly affect quality, but doesn’t really affect render time.

Firefly in Poser is just much faster than 3Delight in DS.  Sure, you can tinker with render times by using other engines, but for me, when I’m working on something where I know I can achieve quality without 3rd party support, I almost always choose Poser, simply for time’s sake.  I wish I had my benchmarks and images in front of me—I can post them later—but the render time difference for me is startling and obvious.  I love Genesis, but I rarely rendered her/him/it, because DS was so very slow.  I knew I could export to Poser and render there, but it was a pain until DSON came about.  As more DSON content becomes available, I’ll use more Genesis. If some kind of autofit script comes out for Poser, then I won’t use much DS at all—not because I don’t like using the program, but because I don’t like waiting for renders.  But DAZ is probably smart about that—since DS is free, it makes its money from content. And if it can now get its content into Poser, it will sell more.

If that changes, my program preferences might change, too.

 Signature 

One in 150 children is diagnosed with autism. One is mine.

My deviantArt Gallery: http://karibous-boutique.deviantart.com/
Proud Member of the Bald Wizards Club

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2303
Joined  2010-12-18

Speed isn’t an issue for me with Daz studio but I turn off raytracing hair and transparencies. Not a problem for me but I know some people can’t live without. I haven’t had a multi-hour render with DS in several months. Most are less than 20 minutes and I’m on an I5, nothing fancy. When I left raytracing and occlusion on fairy wings it was painful.

I don’t use external renders for speed, I stay internal for that. I did some test renders using the RIB format and the stand alone 3DL and even though it’s only the dual core free version it ran nearly as fast as rendering via Studio on a quad. So even though the standalone is limited in processors it is still useful for those who need to batch.

But I don’t even do that cause it’s still slower for me.

 Signature 

My deviantArt Pinup Gallery

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1310
Joined  2003-12-16
larsmidnatt - 06 November 2012 08:21 AM

Only challenge with a complete list is that in theory anything that rendering solution that can open OBJ could be included…

And for the purposes of the OP I think presets would be a good start. Lighting and material tutorials are very technical and I find they are easier to understand after playing around with presets for a while. Let me find a link

Ok
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5320/ -Uberenvironment talk

There used to be a link to adamr001 uber light preset which was just a flat white which was good to start with. Can’t find it.

EDIT: Here is the link Post that has his preset http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5320/P30/#67987

Granted this is just a flat white setup, and for me the specular was too high. But regardless if you are starting without a lot of experience seeing how this was set up can help things make more sense.

The link StratDragon posted is supposed to be a good one, I’ve seen it referenced a lot.

I thought of the obj possibility as soon as I hit send, it opens a can of worms in terms of well, lots of worms to choose from. I think any list would need to concentrate on internal solutions to Studio but an explanation of the OBJ or COLLADA or whatever format export process for other applications would benefit as well.

the maclean thread is very straightforward. A new user can grasp it and it does not require getting too deep to try out.

 

 Signature 

Gravy to potatoes, Luke to Darth Vader, I’m a souped up sucker and I’ll see you all later

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 10:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2196
Joined  2011-11-16

All of the debate about ‘real’ rendering engines and ‘not for professionals’ reminds me of the same arguments about Microsoft operating systems.

Not all potential becomes realized potential, but I wouldn’t discount potential in anyone or anything too easily.

That being said, never forget.. Blender is out there ;p

 Signature 

Just because I may have a strong opinion doesn’t make it any more (or less) correct than any other, just that I feel passionately a particular way at that moment.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2196
Joined  2011-11-16
KaribousBoutique - 06 November 2012 08:39 AM

... I almost always choose Poser, simply for time’s sake…

Well put. For me, the DS interface works better, and that makes a big difference for me and my ability to use the tool. Being Free now (again smile) is also a big plus as in other ways there are +/- both ways. If Poser was free, I probably would use it also. It’s probably just as well it isn’t in my case as I already have plenty to learn/play with between DS, non commercial versions of Maya/3DS.. Vue, Blender, etc… Btw, I did have various versions of Poser, 1-5… never used them much, and I am a fan of Kai’s interfaces generally. Bryce’s for instance is kooky, creative and fun. His Power Tools were very nice also if anyone hasn’t checked them out (owned by Corel last I knew of.)

As for Bryce, main reason I don’t use that at the moment is it’s 32 bit and the development of it has fallen behind VUE (as it is currently frozen) so I am inclined to spend my time learning VUE.

 Signature 

Just because I may have a strong opinion doesn’t make it any more (or less) correct than any other, just that I feel passionately a particular way at that moment.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  109
Joined  0

Instant coffee, instan beer, instant success ...

How long does it take to become a good carpenter?

How long does it take to learn how to play the guitar?

How long has it taken Rob to become the programmer he is now?

How long has it taken Stonemason to become as good as he is now?

How long has it taken theSea to become as good as he is now?

How long will it take to learn how to fully use a render engine?

 Signature 

Peter

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2303
Joined  2010-12-18
Akhbour - 06 November 2012 10:49 AM

Instant coffee, instan beer, instant success ...

How long does it take to become a good carpenter?

How long does it take to learn how to play the guitar?

How long has it taken Rob to become the programmer he is now?

How long has it taken Stonemason to become as good as he is now?

How long has it taken theSea to become as good as he is now?

How long will it take to learn how to fully use a render engine?

Well I don’t think you need to know everything about the render engines to get a good output. You don’t need to even master the subset of features you use. Nothing wrong with going that route if you like, but it doesn’t need to take years to get good(i suppose that also depends on the person).

 Signature 

My deviantArt Pinup Gallery

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2012 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4524
Joined  2007-09-13
Akhbour - 06 November 2012 10:49 AM

How long will it take to learn how to fully use a render engine?

I can answer that one…

How long is eternity?

Because, as long as render engine is still being developed there are going to be new things to learn.

 Signature 

1432 old posts

My ShareCG gallery.

Just because something costs a lot, doesn’t mean it’s the best…

It just means it’s expensive.

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 6
3