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DAZ Studio 4 is Horrible
Posted: 27 October 2012 02:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Thanks, everyone. I’m going to re-download DAZ Studio 4.5 and try your suggestions.

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Posted: 27 October 2012 03:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Darchind - 27 October 2012 02:13 AM

Thanks, everyone. I’m going to re-download DAZ Studio 4.5 and try your suggestions.

Wouldn’t bother I tried 3 times same thing.

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Posted: 27 October 2012 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I spoke too quickly about Studio 3 working.
Since I uninstalled the CMS I get “fatal error” crashes all the time now.

4.5 didn’t crash it froze which is why looking at the crash log doesn’t do any good. Its was different each time.

Taking out the CMS made it speed up for a while then it crashed again.
Re instaling the CMS made no difference

It can happen at any time. During loading a prop or switching from “content” to “parameters” or “scene”  or when panning around a scene. 

The camera motion was jerky and un controllable. It would stop and freeze or just jump to a front perspective view and lock up. 

I didn’t merge content from C with 4.5. They were in seperate folders. Studio3/content for 3 and Studio/library for 4

Anyway now 3 is screwed up too. I’m going to have to re - install that again if I want to even use my legacy content.


I didn’t know you could “return” product.
I’ll have to check that out. I really don’t need this Genesis stuff if 4.5 isn’t going to work.

 

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Posted: 27 October 2012 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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TAW1 - 27 October 2012 04:58 PM

I spoke too quickly about Studio 3 working.
Since I uninstalled the CMS I get “fatal error” crashes all the time now.

4.5 didn’t crash it froze which is why looking at the crash log doesn’t do any good. Its was different each time.

Taking out the CMS made it speed up for a while then it crashed again.
Re instaling the CMS made no difference

It can happen at any time. During loading a prop or switching from “content” to “parameters” or “scene”  or when panning around a scene. 

The camera motion was jerky and un controllable. It would stop and freeze or just jump to a front perspective view and lock up. 

I didn’t merge content from C with 4.5. They were in seperate folders. Studio3/content for 3 and Studio/library for 4

Anyway now 3 is screwed up too. I’m going to have to re - install that again if I want to even use my legacy content.


I didn’t know you could “return” product.
I’ll have to check that out. I really don’t need this Genesis stuff if 4.5 isn’t going to work.

Most of that sure sounds like machine/OS/other running application problems to me…and NOT DS.

Most security software is over-zealous and unless configured specifically tends to cause problems for programs that rely on running servers.  CMS runs a server.  With many security suites at least SOME configuration is necessary to allow it to run completely trouble free.

Also, the CMS cache, by default is set to 10MB…which can be too small if you have a lot of content.  That tends to slow things down, a lot.  The cache can be changed in the ini file. 

Also, several of the ‘problems’ suggest lack of memory.  This can be either system or video card…while rendering relies on the CPU and system RAM, the viewport relies on the video card.  The slow response to actions (including the ‘freeze’) can be because of running out of video memory.  They can also be driver related.  OpenGL is controlled/installed by video drivers…Nvidia and AMD discreet video cards have the least problems.  Intel Graphics, onboard video…the most to nearly unusable.  While the specs may say lesser amounts…to get and maintain decent viewport response, especially at higher video resolutions at LEAST 1 GB of video memory is needed.

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Posted: 27 October 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Its an older quad core Athlon
with 8 gigs of ram
and a geforce 9600 card,

I installed all the drivers etc just before I started this project because I knew that might be an issue.

There is about 16 gigs of content in in studio 3’s content file.

I don’t know if that is a lot or not. As I said I’ve been a “user” since about 04.

4.5 had next to nothing since I’d just installed the brand new stuff I’d bought this last month.

I didn’t know I had to reset a cache or turn off part of my anti virus.

I’m just using Avast anti virus that’s it.

I guess I’ll stop bitching re-install 3 and hope it works.

This is taking too much time and there don’t seem to be any answers.

 

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Posted: 27 October 2012 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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If you had the CMS looking at the DS3 content, then 16 gigs may have been pushing it for the 10MB default cache.

The quad and 8 gigs SHOULD not be having that many difficulties..

Sorry…but the 9600 may be a lot of the problem.  It is limited in a number of the OpenGL features it supports.  Especially if its a 512 MB version. 

The minimum spec for 4.5 is a OpenGL 1.6 128MB card…yeah, you may get a viewport to show, but it will probably be sometime next week to move around a scene (redraw in the viewport).  The ‘recommended’ card is a OpenGL 2.2, 512 MB card…which in the ‘computer speak of ‘gamers’ means ‘that’s the minimum card to get you to medium settings’.  Your 9600 is an OpenGL 2.1 card…

It was a good card, a few years ago.  It may fit the ‘supported cards’ criteria, but really it just barely does.  And some of the problems sound suspiciously like video RAM related.  I’ve seen more than one card from that era start having vram problems, before they completely die and throw a multicolored pixelated mess on the screen instead of a readable GUI.  Some of those type of errors are random freezes with NO crash, just stopping of all graphics functions (sometimes if there is audio, it will continue as normal or go into a loop).  Also, they are a fairly power hungry card and performance will degrade if the power supply is not up to it…and power supplies degrade over time.  A 400W power supply was the minimum recommended supply for that card.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 12:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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mjc1016 - 27 October 2012 07:40 PM

If you had the CMS looking at the DS3 content, then 16 gigs may have been pushing it for the 10MB default cache.

The quad and 8 gigs SHOULD not be having that many difficulties..

Sorry…but the 9600 may be a lot of the problem.  It is limited in a number of the OpenGL features it supports.  Especially if its a 512 MB version. 

The minimum spec for 4.5 is a OpenGL 1.6 128MB card…yeah, you may get a viewport to show, but it will probably be sometime next week to move around a scene (redraw in the viewport).  The ‘recommended’ card is a OpenGL 2.2, 512 MB card…which in the ‘computer speak of ‘gamers’ means ‘that’s the minimum card to get you to medium settings’.  Your 9600 is an OpenGL 2.1 card…

It was a good card, a few years ago.  It may fit the ‘supported cards’ criteria, but really it just barely does.  And some of the problems sound suspiciously like video RAM related.  I’ve seen more than one card from that era start having vram problems, before they completely die and throw a multicolored pixelated mess on the screen instead of a readable GUI.  Some of those type of errors are random freezes with NO crash, just stopping of all graphics functions (sometimes if there is audio, it will continue as normal or go into a loop).  Also, they are a fairly power hungry card and performance will degrade if the power supply is not up to it…and power supplies degrade over time.  A 400W power supply was the minimum recommended supply for that card.

I never had daz crash on me daz 4.o worked just fine for me until the updates started coming out then things started getting screwed up daz 3 worked fine. So I know its not my machine acting up its mainly daz the duf files need to be takin out and the other format brought back due to lack of compatability. I can do a poll to see how many people are having this problem which im sure a lot are and daz just wants to ignore it.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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If I can get it to run under WINE, in Linux with less problems and fewer crashes/errors than DS3 EVER did/does…I’d say it’s not 4.5.  I’ve had about 8 crashes in 4.5…two were out of memory (one of those was accidental, the second was intentional…to see how much it took to bring on the first one), one was CMS related, three were very repeatable and very specific…applying a certain shader preset to a certain surface on a certain product resulted in a crash.  Apply a different one or the first one on a different surface…no problem.  The other two, I don’t know…as they occurred when my kids were using the machine…so they could have been anything.  I had initial problems with 4.5…but they were NOT problems with the program, so much as they were configuration/system problems (one of the big ones…I did NOT uninstall the CMS before moving from 4 to 4.5).  Once I took care of those DS has been near flawless.

Between 4.0 and 4.5.1.6 there have been somewhere around a dozen updates (maybe more, I lost count and not going to look it up) to the 3Delight core.  Many of those were to fix specific problems, some were improvements.  The 3Delight change log is a mile and a half long…but all those changes did not come ‘free’.  Yes, 3Delight may be ‘faster’ in some areas, but overall, it’s more demanding of system resources than the plain vanilla version originally shipped with 4.0.

The same with some of the actual fixes in the DS core app…I can think of at least one, that would cause more intensive use/demand more from the system being fixed than being broken.

The duf file format…what is it supposed to be compatible with?  4.5.1.6…

There is a problem with morph files made using the Blender import/export scripts by millghost.  But, that’s more of the fact that those scripts are not writing 100% compliant files.  Guess what…4.5 is actually pickier about that…it’s disallowing certain things based on the fact that they aren’t actually following the protocols.  You can get the morph to work once, without having to play around with it.  When that happens, use the built in tools to save it…that corrects the problems and writes the standards compliant format/file.  By actually adhering to the standards, 4.5 may seem less compatible, but it’s actually not…it’s nipping shoddy work, in the bud, so to speak.  For maximum stability and long term ‘cleanliness’  they could have prevented 4.5 from acknowledging ANY previous format, except raw geometry and texture files…

For kicks and giggles…if you are having major problems with saving things in it…try saving them as uncompressed (most of the various save options have the compressed files option).  Because it could very well be, your file compression libraries, system wide, have problems. 

Besides…has Puppeteer EVER worked, 100% in ANY version of DS?

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Posted: 28 October 2012 05:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Um actually puppeteer has run perfectly in all my previous versions leading up to this version its when they changed to duf format is when everything went all screwed eyed. I can’t even use it now no point since I can’t save my work or anything.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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mjc1016 - 27 October 2012 07:40 PM

If you had the CMS looking at the DS3 content, then 16 gigs may have been pushing it for the 10MB default cache.

The quad and 8 gigs SHOULD not be having that many difficulties..

Sorry…but the 9600 may be a lot of the problem.  It is limited in a number of the OpenGL features it supports.  Especially if its a 512 MB version. 

The minimum spec for 4.5 is a OpenGL 1.6 128MB card…yeah, you may get a viewport to show, but it will probably be sometime next week to move around a scene (redraw in the viewport).  The ‘recommended’ card is a OpenGL 2.2, 512 MB card…which in the ‘computer speak of ‘gamers’ means ‘that’s the minimum card to get you to medium settings’.  Your 9600 is an OpenGL 2.1 card…

It was a good card, a few years ago.  It may fit the ‘supported cards’ criteria, but really it just barely does.  And some of the problems sound suspiciously like video RAM related.  I’ve seen more than one card from that era start having vram problems, before they completely die and throw a multicolored pixelated mess on the screen instead of a readable GUI.  Some of those type of errors are random freezes with NO crash, just stopping of all graphics functions (sometimes if there is audio, it will continue as normal or go into a loop).  Also, they are a fairly power hungry card and performance will degrade if the power supply is not up to it…and power supplies degrade over time.  A 400W power supply was the minimum recommended supply for that card.

Well That explains everything.
My pc is a worn out old piece of crap.

It is four years old after all.

The 8 gigs of ram is probably not “gamer” ram since I really just got it to run things like Daz, Carrara and Photoshop back then.
The Ge 9600 card was almost out of date when I bought it but was best I could afford at the time.

I was wondering if increasing the ram to 16 gigs might help but I’m guessing a new video card would make more of a difference. Assuming I can find one with the required specs that would fit my old motherboard and that i can afford.  i suspect even that wouldn’t solve all the problems since there is probably something I’m still missing in that suggested upgrade.

The power source is either 750 watts or a 1000 but I don’t know for sure w/out taking it apart.

Daz 4.5 just isn’t designed to run on a four year old pc with minimum specs.
I gotcha.

I wish someone would have said that *first* and saved me all this time.

I’m going to return that genesis stuff cancel the platinum account and start saving for a new comp.
Should take a year or two and I’m sure Daz will be up to 5.5 by then.
In the meantime I’ll just use Daz 3 on this ol’ piece of junk.

Thanks for the help. I guess I should have suspected something like that I’ve gotten complacent about what used to be a decent computer being able to handle anything.

Now I realize its just been my old, out of date hardware causing the problem all along
Sorry.

 

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Posted: 28 October 2012 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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TAW1 - 28 October 2012 11:09 AM

It is four years old after all.

The 8 gigs of ram is probably not “gamer” ram since I really just got it to run things like Daz, Carrara and Photoshop back then.
The Ge 9600 card was almost out of date when I bought it but was best I could afford at the time.


Thanks for the help. I guess I should have suspected something like that I’ve gotten complacent about what used to be a decent computer being able to handle anything.

Now I realize its just been my old, out of date hardware causing the problem all along
Sorry.

I’m running on a 5-6 yr old machine with 4 GB…

What I did, a bit over 1 yr ago, is swap out the video card from a 7000 series to a 430 GT for less than $100…and that by itself cured a lot of other, non-DS problems and probably prevented a boatload of DS ones…

This one, to be exact…

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130695

It’s also less power hungry than the 9600…runs very well with a 550W PSU…

‘Gamer’ RAM is usually only a little faster and not noticeably any different, except in intense battle sequences…

 

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Posted: 28 October 2012 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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mjc1016 - 28 October 2012 01:39 PM
TAW1 - 28 October 2012 11:09 AM

It is four years old after all.

The 8 gigs of ram is probably not “gamer” ram since I really just got it to run things like Daz, Carrara and Photoshop back then.
The Ge 9600 card was almost out of date when I bought it but was best I could afford at the time.


Thanks for the help. I guess I should have suspected something like that I’ve gotten complacent about what used to be a decent computer being able to handle anything.

Now I realize its just been my old, out of date hardware causing the problem all along
Sorry.

I’m running on a 5-6 yr old machine with 4 GB…

What I did, a bit over 1 yr ago, is swap out the video card from a 7000 series to a 430 GT for less than $100…and that by itself cured a lot of other, non-DS problems and probably prevented a boatload of DS ones…

This one, to be exact…

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130695

It’s also less power hungry than the 9600…runs very well with a 550W PSU…

‘Gamer’ RAM is usually only a little faster and not noticeably any different, except in intense battle sequences…

 

OK.
I was looking at two gig cards by Radeon and Nvidia and their prices for the last hour or so and wondering where I could scare up two or three hundred dollars for those.  Then another hundred and fifty for four 4 gig strips of DDR3 ram. At least the ram is fairly cheap. Still for such an upgrade i’d have to wait a while to be able to afford it. 

Then i wondered if my cpu wasn’t fast enough since it’s only 2.60 GHz.
I did get 4;5 to render a couple of times. When i watched the resource monitor it showed the cpu redlined at 100%.  I don’t know if that is significant.

From what I have been reading about the GeForce 9600 I do need a new video card and if I can solve the problems with something under a hundred dollars that would be great so I’ll try that first.

I guess I’ll get back to you when i can find one and install it.

Then re-install 4.5 etc etc…That should take a couple of weeks at least.

Thanks for all your help.

 

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Posted: 28 October 2012 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Its daz period it is broken why can’t they just admit it and move on to fix it.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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shadowl - 28 October 2012 05:04 PM

Its daz period it is broken why can’t they just admit it and move on to fix it.

IF it was so broken it would not run very well in WINE.  WINE tends to be rather brutal with poorly made/broken software.  Things that can slip by in Windows don’t in WINE.  WINE, unlike Windows, tries very hard to stick to the standards/protocols that MS itself has made.  There are way too many Windows apps that don’t, but they still work in Windows.

I have a ‘problem’ with DS4.5 taking about 5 minutes to open…but I have pretty much ruled out that it is an actual problem with DS.  It looks like it is problem with the specific build of the Qt4gui.dll included and my system.  I just haven’t felt the need to go set up a build environment needed to do a Windows build of Qt, from source, to test out my current working theory.  I have replaced all the Qt components with an earlier version and it starts about normal, except there are required functions that are not present in that version of Qt and the end result is a less than functioning DS (it basically gets to fully loaded, including all the content but crashes at the first dialog box call because the older Qt4gui is missing something needed by the most recent build of DS…and no, I don’t really care what it is, so I’m not going to spend any time debugging that one).

I’ve sifted through enough bug reports on the Qt pages to see that this specific problem has plagued Qt4, on and off, since Qt4 was released.  It spans a huge variety of software, is definitely build specific AND almost always limited to a few systems. It is almost always cured by either the next update to Qt with the ‘plain vanilla’ build or rebuilding Qt on the affected system.  Most likely it is more of a configuration problem than anything else.

Is that DAZ’s fault?  Is it their problem?  No and maybe…if it was more common, I’d say more than maybe.

Is it a ‘deal breaker’?  No.

Is it something I’d like to have fixed, without doing it myself?  Hell, yeah.

 

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Posted: 28 October 2012 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Still. wouldn’t it be nice. I mean really really nice. If Daz just continued to support the 3 versions and keep them up to date? I think there would be fewer nasty posts in the forums. People would care less about the flaws in 4 if Daz continued to support 3.
Maybe Daz should hold a referendum.
Who has used Daz since 2005 and loved it and still wants them to support and update active versions of 3 in parallel with 4.

Hands up!

Who will ditch Daz completely if they stick with this idiotic “stand by their guns” policy of supporting buggy unworkable software designed by a stubborn board of directors with complete disregard to community input.

Hands up!


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