A few newbie questions on Bryce (and VUE)

K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

Hi, fellas, been playing a bit with Bryce but have also read a few things about VUE (which I haven't tried playing with yet). So I'm curious about a few things:

1. Have you tried both Bryce and VUE? If so, how do you compare them? Does each have certain special features not found in the other?

2. I'm basically just thinking of creating some good landscape renders in Bryce, with mountains and really good-looking skies. Is it worth buying this to learn how? Or can you already learn it just from online tutorials? Hey, $80 is not a small sum to pay for a DVD...

3. It appears from what I read that too many trees in your scene can really slow down your Bryce renders to a creep. Now from what I read elsewhere VUE, on the other hand, can render scenes with large amounts of vegetation without the rendering time being too severely compromised. Could you tell me what you know, please?

I'd be most grateful if anyone could answer my queries. Thanks in advance!

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Comments

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    K T Ong said:
    Hi, fellas, been playing a bit with Bryce but have also read a few things about VUE (which I haven't tried playing with yet). So I'm curious about a few things:

    1. Have you tried both Bryce and VUE? If so, how do you compare them? Does each have certain special features not found in the other?

    2. I'm basically just thinking of creating some good landscape renders in Bryce, with mountains and really good-looking skies. Is it worth buying this to learn how? Or can you already learn it just from online tutorials? Hey, $80 is not a small sum to pay for a DVD...

    3. It appears from what I read that too many trees in your scene can really slow down your Bryce renders to a creep. Now from what I read elsewhere VUE, on the other hand, can render scenes with large amounts of vegetation without the rendering time being too severely compromised. Could you tell me what you know, please?

    I'd be most grateful if anyone could answer my queries. Thanks in advance!

    I know some body will shoot me down .
    1- I like the plants better in Vue and the basic sky renders .
    2- I learn by watching the free videos and playing in both .
    3- there are many thing that slow down render time beside trees - lighting come to mind .

    so Bryce is free and Vue costs can add up fast - what version are you looking at .

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited September 2012

    K T Ong said:
    Hi, fellas, been playing a bit with Bryce but have also read a few things about VUE (which I haven't tried playing with yet). So I'm curious about a few things:

    1. Have you tried both Bryce and VUE? If so, how do you compare them? Does each have certain special features not found in the other?

    2. I'm basically just thinking of creating some good landscape renders in Bryce, with mountains and really good-looking skies. Is it worth buying this to learn how? Or can you already learn it just from online tutorials? Hey, $80 is not a small sum to pay for a DVD...

    3. It appears from what I read that too many trees in your scene can really slow down your Bryce renders to a creep. Now from what I read elsewhere VUE, on the other hand, can render scenes with large amounts of vegetation without the rendering time being too severely compromised. Could you tell me what you know, please?

    I'd be most grateful if anyone could answer my queries. Thanks in advance!

    I can't compare the two but I can attempt to answer the DVD question. Depending on what exactly you want to do and how well versed in Bryce you want to be the mentoring DVD can be a must have or an expensive indulgence. If all you plan on doing is some simple landscape scenes then you probably could get on without the DVD. I say that because it's not so complicated a task to make simple landscapes that you need a DVD to tell you how. That and there are alot of tutorials freely available on how to do that. If however you want to make really exceptional scenes then the DVD is a must have.

    Essentially it's creators have attempted to answer all the how to questions that aren't easily answered by free tutorials. Now if you want to get a feel for if the DVD's tutorials can in fact teach you things. Well alot of those free tutorials out there are made by the same people namely David Brinnen and Horo Wernli. Also another good thing about the DVD is it's loaded with resources such as materials, scenes, HDRI's and other goodies, so it's more then just tutorials.

    True $80 is alot of money for many people to plunk down but I somewhat have gotten to know the DVD's creators and from what I know they fully appreciate the value of a dollar and how hard they can be to come by so if they charge $80 you can count on it being worth at least that much if not more. I can also tell you they're in it for the love of Bryce and to help improve the Bryce community, they're not just into it to make a buck.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    This site, http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/index.html has enough tutorials to keep a person busy for some time. So does http://Vimeo.com. If these two sites don't do it for you go to YouTube and search for Bryce tutorials. Again, a very large selection.

    As to comparing render times, I can't give you any information on Vue because I've never use it. But there are way to decrease render times in Bryce during creation time, which you'll find in many of David Brinnen's tutorials.

    As was said, which you use, Bryce or Vue, depends on what you want to do. And to give you an idea of just what can be done, go to the Show us your renders thread and see some of the work others have done. Then, if you've not seen Vue results, go to a sight that displays those and compare the results.

    It's also been said, by Horo if I remember, it seems anything can be made in Bryce if you have the knowledge how to do it.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited September 2012

    @K T Ong - (1) No.

    (2) I'm a bit biased here, obviously. About 3/4 of the videos on the DVD are available on YouTube and Vimeo, but not the same ones. When we realised we had over 24 hours worth of videos and many complaints by people with a low Internet connection, we decided to re-edit and re-render all videos in a better quality and add a bunch more. And add transcripts to some of them, and add scene files, etc. You watch what you're interested in on YT and Vimeo. If you want more and locally and in a better quality all on a piece of hardware, get the DVD. If you don't like the videos made public, use the money for something different.

    (3) Vue is superior for vegetation, there is no doubt about it. For all other aspects, Bryce can do what Vue can and it is (still) free. Even though Bryce is less advanced in vegetation than Vue, a lot can be done if done right. Bryce can do skies at least as real looking as Vue can, but again, it is probably a bit more tricky to set it up. The great advantage of Bryce is that it can be used for virtually any kind of scene. Abstracts, space scenes, modelling, landscapes, still life, toon and CEL shading; with a bit of additional help it can render light probes directly in one go, spherical panoramas, real 3D anaglyphs. Bryce has one of the most elaborate implementation of image based light. There are also light domes and true parallel lights. Bryce bridges to DAZ Studio, which opens up a plethora of props, characters, monsters, toon characters to populate the scene.

    What is NOT good with Bryce is that it is still a 32-bit application and as such hard coded to 2 GB of memory. If a scene grows beyond that, it crashes. There are ways to make Bryce large address aware to extend it to around 3.4 GB if the computer sports at least 4 GB of memory.

    Post edited by Horo on
  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for all the info, fellas! This was really appreciated!

    bigh said:
    so Bryce is free and Vue costs can add up fast - what version are you looking at .

    I'm thinking of getting the free version (VUE Pioneer) and then buying some of the modules/plugins, chiefly the ones on lighting, 3D model importation and ecosystems.

    Just thinking.:)

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    K T Ong said:
    Thanks for all the info, fellas! This was really appreciated!

    bigh said:
    so Bryce is free and Vue costs can add up fast - what version are you looking at .

    I'm thinking of getting the free version (VUE Pioneer) and then buying some of the modules/plugins, chiefly the ones on lighting, 3D model importation and ecosystems.

    Just thinking.:)

    yes that would be a good start with Vue
    be sure to sign up for the newsletter

    I would download the trial first and see if you like it

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,877
    edited December 1969

    And then add up how much it is going to cost to get it up to the spec you would need :roll:

  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited September 2012

    Or wait for them to suddenly give us a shocking offer by letting us download several of the plugins/modules for free, like DAZ did.:lol:

    {Fat chance, right?)

    Post edited by K T Ong on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,877
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, can't see that heppening anytime soon. :coolsmirk:

  • Sara16Sara16 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    And then add up how much it is going to cost to get it up to the spec you would need :roll:

    +1 agree, I also looked into getting Vue and did a lot of readup about it but later backed off because I figured at the end of the day it would probably cost at least $500 to get what I really needed and then oh that would be a nice addon.... more $$$$ lol!


    In regards to the OP;

    If I had money to blow I would get vue and also get Bryce because each have their strengths fpr example IMHO; whatever I can imagine can be done in Bryce particularly working with abstracts all sorts of objects. Whereas Vue strengths are in the vegetation but with extra effort Bryce can certainly do superb landscape renders. For example; closeup terrains? I would use higher resolutions and those added new brushes are pretty cool and there are some plants that look pretty dang good in Bryce. So at the end of the day Bryce is what I prefer to use and best of all it's free :)

  • alymacalymac Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    just my 2 cents here. i have tried both products, and actually like bryce better, maybe because that what i learned on first.
    vue renders take a long time too, also it seemed a little more unstable to me, crashwise.of course, i have a dell using windows.
    that being said, you cant beat the price of bryce, and vue with extra modules really starts to add up fast.
    since you seem to be new to the process, why not start off with the freebie and see if you like it.
    there are plenty of free tutorials right here for bryce. and now that bryce has instancing, you can add thousands of trees without using lots of memory.
    also combining bryce and daz makes it easy to add a few horses or whatever to your scenes.

  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited December 1969

    alymac said:
    that being said, you cant beat the price of bryce, and vue with extra modules really starts to add up fast.

    Not necessarily I think, if you have a clear idea which modules you want and which not. I don't intend ever to get the 'Zephyr' module, for example, which is mainly for animation. At least not in the near future. I've looked at all the modules and only around five of them seriously interest me. But I do agree that the price of the modules does add up!

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    K T Ong said:
    alymac said:
    that being said, you cant beat the price of bryce, and vue with extra modules really starts to add up fast.

    Not necessarily I think, if you have a clear idea which modules you want and which not. I don't intend ever to get the 'Zephyr' module, for example, which is mainly for animation. At least not in the near future. I've looked at all the modules and only around five of them seriously interest me. But I do agree that the price of the modules does add up!

    Yeah but even if you selectively buy just what you need Bryce is still going to beat it because for now Bryce is free. There are few add on products one needs for Bryce. Most of them are things designed to give the beginner a head start. Whereas the version of view you're considering sounds like a striped down version and you end up buying the parts they took out that you need. Then on top of that are all the add on products that give the beginner a head start.

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,851
    edited December 1969

    K T Ong said:
    Hi, fellas, been playing a bit with Bryce but have also read a few things about VUE (which I haven't tried playing with yet). So I'm curious about a few things:

    1. Have you tried both Bryce and VUE? If so, how do you compare them? Does each have certain special features not found in the other?

    2. I'm basically just thinking of creating some good landscape renders in Bryce, with mountains and really good-looking skies. Is it worth buying this to learn how? Or can you already learn it just from online tutorials? Hey, $80 is not a small sum to pay for a DVD...

    3. It appears from what I read that too many trees in your scene can really slow down your Bryce renders to a creep. Now from what I read elsewhere VUE, on the other hand, can render scenes with large amounts of vegetation without the rendering time being too severely compromised. Could you tell me what you know, please?

    I'd be most grateful if anyone could answer my queries. Thanks in advance!

    1. No.
    2. Horo has said what is really necessary.
    3. To get really good looking trees, skies or anything, you will be looking at render times in terms of hours not minutes - in Bryce. I can't comment on Vue - see 1.

    The most important thing, if you are going to spend any time using a piece of software for your hobby is that you enjoy using it. If it isn't fun to use, then it is going to be a chore to get to the point where you have sufficient skill to create your scenes.

    So, look at the renders made in each piece of software. Decide with you like the look of best. Try the software out and see how your renders compare to the ones you like. See if you can figure out - with the aid of tutorials - how you can improve your scenes. And repeat the process a few times. If you find that enjoyable, you've found your software, given time and effort on your part, you will eventually be able to make the kind of scenes you desire.

    If however, you find you are fighting with the interface and not getting anywhere, then try the other software, and see how you get on with that following the same process.

    My advice, if you are doing this for a hobby, choose the piece of software you like using best. If you choose Bryce you know where you can come to get help and advice. If you want to see what I'm up to at the moment with Bryce http://www.youtube.com/user/davidbrinnen/videos

    And what I left my computer rendering while I was out at work...

    So the render time was about 12 hours or more, but it doesn't matter, I let my computer get on with it.

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  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,851
    edited December 1969

    You are correctly reminded. I wanted to test the compatibility of the TA rendering with the mirrors in the scene and the streaming light effect.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,877
    edited December 1969

    Ah interesting, so the same scene, rendered in 2 different versions of Bryce ? Nice.image, both of them

  • Sara16Sara16 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:

    @ Horo,

    I love those renders you did, the trees along with lighting techniques are genius. Well done!

    @ David,

    Love the way you added that streaming light effect. I'm going to try something like that in the near future.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969

    Thank you, Sara16. But there is only one from me. I think the other examples are better.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    Thank you, Sara16. But there is only one from me. I think the other examples are better.

    Those other ones are from our friend Rashad, aren't they? If so here's two more great examples of his work and how good vegetation can look in Bryce. This one also shows Bryce can be competitive on the frequency of plants compared to Vue. I have heard though that Vue can handle large numbers of instances of things in a scene better then Bryce.

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  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969

    @LordHardDriven - the first link shows vegetation by Alex, two are by Rashad and one by yours truly. There are many more examples of elaborate vegetation, most by Rashad.

  • Sara16Sara16 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    Thank you, Sara16. But there is only one from me. I think the other examples are better.

    Ah I see now, in those 4 links you posted;

    Alex : Old Pond
    Horo : Backlit Trees
    Rashad : Zen
    Rashad : Far from the Big City

    All excellent examples of vegetation.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    @LordHardDriven - the first link shows vegetation by Alex, two are by Rashad and one by yours truly. There are many more examples of elaborate vegetation, most by Rashad.

    Oh I know, I got those from Bryce5.com and as I was looking around I had a tough time deciding what pictures to pick as additional examples as there were so many good ones.

  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited September 2012

    @Horo ~ I'd love to live by that old pond!

    So, look at the renders made in each piece of software. Decide with you like the look of best. Try the software out and see how your renders compare to the ones you like. See if you can figure out - with the aid of tutorials - how you can improve your scenes. And repeat the process a few times. If you find that enjoyable, you've found your software, given time and effort on your part, you will eventually be able to make the kind of scenes you desire.

    If however, you find you are fighting with the interface and not getting anywhere, then try the other software, and see how you get on with that following the same process.

    My advice, if you are doing this for a hobby, choose the piece of software you like using best. If you choose Bryce you know where you can come to get help and advice.

    Yes, I'll be doing that. Merely thought it might help me form a better decision (and sooner) by soliciting the opinions of those who have tried both Bryce and VUE. Which did they like more, and why? Were there special things in Bryce they liked which they couldn't find in VUE, and vice versa?

    Real lovely forest/brook scene by the way, with all the wonderful god rays. Will have to get around to create a similar scene some time. By getting the DVD and following the tutes in it, perhaps.;-)

    And I shall continue waiting for that outrageous offer for us to download several of VUE's modules for free, like DAZ 3D's stuff.;-P

    Post edited by K T Ong on
  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited September 2012

    Yeah but even if you selectively buy just what you need Bryce is still going to beat it because for now Bryce is free. There are few add on products one needs for Bryce. Most of them are things designed to give the beginner a head start. Whereas the version of view you're considering sounds like a striped down version and you end up buying the parts they took out that you need. Then on top of that are all the add on products that give the beginner a head start.

    Their PDF guide to VUE featuring a superhero is still pretty much cheaper than the Bryce DVD. Though I fully agree that on the whole VUE's still going to cost more.;-)

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    Post edited by K T Ong on
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,851
    edited December 1969

    To be fair the DVD is not really aimed at beginners and tends to focus on more advanced topics. For free there are plenty of tutorials here http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html - of course these do not provide a structured approach to learning the software, but for that there are the beginners tutorials from the Bryce 5.0 manual that now reside in the artist guide documentation. I don't know how things stand with Vue, but with Bryce it's more a case of pick it up and start playing with it. That is how I learned from a computer arts magazine disc demo that came with no documentation and this was before the advent of an internet connection. This is the beauty of an interface - all be it somewhat long in the tooth - that was designed by an artist instead of a programmer.

  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited September 2012

    Is there a tute that starts by showing you a really good scene, and then shows you how to create it step-by-step?

    Would be great if there were such a tute showing how you made your forest/brook scene with all the god rays. Plus some nice sky, maybe.

    Post edited by K T Ong on
  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited September 2012

    K T Ong said:
    Is there a tute that starts by showing you a really good scene, and then shows you how to create it step-by-step?

    Would be great if there were such a tute showing how you made your forest/brook scene with all the god rays. Plus some nice sky, maybe.

    Define really good scene?

    I think all of these fit the bill of good scene and since they're all by David here you would also get a feel for the value of the Mentor DVD since David is part of the creative genius behind that DVD

    Bryce desert landscape - part 1 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen
    Bryce desert landscape - part 2 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen
    Bryce lake in a landscape - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
    Bryce lighthouse "light beam" effect - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited September 2012

    One with lotsa vegetation and god rays, maybe. And great skies with clouds and lighting effects. ;-)

    Unlike this one. (No clouds, no vegetation, water that looks like a sheet of glass...) :down:

    (Thanx for all the links to the tutes, by the way!)

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    Post edited by K T Ong on
  • K T OngK T Ong Posts: 359
    edited December 1969

    Or this. (Trying to create an underground cavern scene. Don't think it looks convincing.)

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