It's just too bad . . .



  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 747
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:

    It sounds like you are happy with the content you have for the figures you possess, then and, if not, there are other companies and other figures available for Poser out there.

    There are many places that sell content for those figures that you have.

    Please summarize for me, what DAZ must do to either "do right by you" or , if they cannot, please realize they won't be going backwards from the revolutionary step they have made in figure creation.

    I, among others, applaud DAZ for making such a figure. It is amazing and the “slew of new clothing” really comes from the old clothes made for M4,M3,D3,V4,V3,A3,Freak3,Freak4, and others. I am using things I haven't touched before and using it on all sorts of new looking figures.

    To keep me as a heavy spending customer (I was dropping at least $100 month at Daz from Dec 2004 to the release of DS4 - after DS4 - it dropped to about $20 a month),

    "Have to have"

    The Platinum Club needs to be useful for those who have not embraced genesis.
    The PC voucher is only useful for DAZ Originals - and for the past year, most DAZ Originals are genesis products. The only new things that are coming out for Poser users are sets & props. I will miss the $1.99 items and the freebies, but I could always join for a month once a year and scoop the $1.99 - as far as the freebies - well, there is a reason they are free - they are really niche products - neat, but niche.

    Nice to have:

    1. Figures:
    I want a David 4 - It doesn't have to be a separate mesh - If DAZ did a David 4 for M4 like they like they made the Stephanie 4 for V4, I would be very, very happy with that. I could use those to make a male teenager - that was my solution for female teenagers - start with the SP4 base and work the short & petite morphs and you can get a pretty good approximation of a 13 or 14 year old. The character issues would be settled. As far as The Girl - as much as I luv her, I don't see DAZ making a Gen3 Girl available with Gen 5 tech. That is ok - I can update her in Poser 2012.

    2. Clothing content:
    I have an extensive wardrobe. Too much of what has been made for genesis looks familiar. Whatever is made I would have to run through WW and Morphing clothes to add whatever morphs I need because most don't have the morphs I use - not to mention the fact that I use a lot of non-DAZ characters. The key is originality. That is what I feel has been missing from genesis clothing content. The business suit that Sickleyield is working on looks interesting - but the textures and the buttons- good lord. Every texture I have seen for them would not be worn by anyone over the age of 25.

    3. Software:
    DAZ needs to buy a Apple developer connection seat - 1 seat is $99 a year. If I can spend the money on it, so can DAZ. DAZ software on the OSX platform has always been problematic because they are constantly blindsided by changes to the underlying operating system that every other developer for the platform knows are coming down the pike. Currently, only DS4 is guaranteed to run under OSX 10.8. Because of all of this, I am very leery of investing in DAZ software.

    DAZ doesn't have to "do right by me". DAZ has to decide if they want me as a customer, and adjust fire accordingly.

  • cimairacimaira Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Poser users have a legitimate complaint about lack of new products they can use, at least when it comes to clothing and to a lesser extent characters. There may be something coming that will go at least some way towards ameliorating that situation (though it should be noted that BFurner's post used neither "soon" nor "game changing").

    People do not need to justify their choice of application - if people want to use Poser, or an older version of DAZ Studio, that is nobody's call but their own (system specs permitting, of course).

    Richard, I just wanted thank you for acknowledging that Poser users do have a legitimate complaint. I remember any other Admin/Moderator saying this before now. Some may have and I missed it, but this is the first time I've seen it, so again, Thank you!

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,133
    edited September 2012

    ssgbryan said:

    I wouldn't be happy with a V5 and a M5 - that is missing my concerns - purpose build meshes or "one size fits all".

    Let me take a few minutes to explain why.

    What does a separate V5 & M5 have that V4 & M4 doesn't? Nothing from my perspective. A whole cottage industry sprung up making products to correct the problems with the V4 & M4 meshes. The weight mapping capabilities of Poser 9/2012 addressed the last remaining issues, in my opinion.

    Unfortunately this whole post is very female-centric. The fact that M5 can easily grab female items (and if you want to throw it to zbrush or hexagon to make a quick morph to pull up the waist you can quickly do it) and mix both together both figures to produce more female or male features is the big features. Weightmapping is not the important feature, morphs are... weightmapping is used to support the morphs and scaling you can use with Genesis.

    The clothing content issue has been resolved on the Poser side by using Wardrobe Wizard or Xdresser for the base mesh and then the Morphing Clothes script to put any morphs the character needs, so the doesn't have any clothing issue is addressed. Not perfectly mind you, but I get a 90% solution, and as a hobbyist, that is good enough.

    If you're converting female to female, you may get decent results, but female to male gets horrible results. I tried crossdresser and wardrobe wizard to convert the v4 bodysuit to male to get the surfing textures for m4 and the result was horrible because of the hip placement and crunched breast area. Genesis converted it perfectly. Converting other female items produced the similar horrible results and converting gen3 to gen4 gave me split meshes in the crotch area so I never had useful results. Autofit results from the Gen3 clothing was good enough to make promos from.

    What I want is Gen 5 versions of all of the Gen 3 figures. I want a full range of figures. I am most certainly not interested in the "Logan's Run" world that DAZ appears to have embraced as far as figure development goes.

    They've been made and can use their clothing as well.

    The monster making capability in genesis is interesting, but if I need a monster, I'll get a purpose designed one. Not to mention the fact that while being able to add an extra pair of arms to a character is neat - I would be a lot more impressed if someone got a shirt on them.

    Like it's been said before, unless the monster has morph dials to change the look (or injection channels), you're stuck with clones of the same monster. And if you need a female version or even an younger version, you'll be hard pressed to get one.

    As far as the "slew of new clothing", it simply doesn't exist. In the year that genesis has been out on the market, I have seen exactly ONE original outfit (the short order cook - that is neat) that made me think about getting the genesis plug-in for Wardrobe Wizard.

    LOL, there's been more than that, like the renaissance outfit, supersuit, doctors scrubs and Luthebel's asian-inspired outfits just to name a few. Then let's not forget Mec4D's Sari for the male and females that just came out last week. And the benefit is that males and females can use it; Gen4 would have been for just the female or male and then people would have to beg the vendor to make additional versions.

    The only place you can get more than a few outfits for genesis is DAZ. Almost all of the clothing for genesis at 'Rosity is made by 1 vendor, and genesis support is practically non-existent at every other storefront.

    Actually there are several that have made genesis clothing on rendo. However look again on rendo, possibly 10 vendors make most of the V4 clothing there... and that's because they're simple pieces like bras, panties, pants and mini skirts.

    For the price of a couple of outfits, I can convert any piece of clothing from 1 figure to any other figure - which has fairly ominous implications for clothing content vendors. Once I get a good outfit - say a male business suit - the next business suit has to be miles better than the first one for me to justify purchasing it.

    Once again, crossdresser and wardrobe wizard conversion for males are simply horrible and unusable in renders.

    The clothing vendors that are still here at DAZ for the most part are only interested in making impractical armor, skankwear or fantasy clothing. And they aren't taking requests, unless it is something that they are already interested in.

    Look up again at the list I provided. Is there a V4 version of the sari? But then again, those items that you listed are what sells, so can't fault the vendor for making what earns cash for them.

    It is all a moot point anyway. For DAZ to release a stand alone V5 & M5, they have to be willing to stand up and say that they misjudged the market. I don't believe their corporate ego will allow that based on how DAZ has been run since the merger.

    There's no need to create a standalone M5 and V5 because genesis is a system and they're based on that. Support needs to go for the system and I believe that's what DSON is for.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 747
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:

    Stand alone Figures are dying. Morphs for a central base is the in thing. Daz didn't misjudge the market, they are re-defining it. If you're happy with tons of stand alone figures with limited support and flexability then good for you. I prefer one figure that can do it all. Lets see how long all the new stand alone figures coming out stay in the limelight. Lets see how well they are supported. I already know the answer. They would make more money being morphs for Genesis:) People love choice and the freedom to blend and use what they want from their favourite items. No stand alone figure can offer that but Genesis.

    Really? Since the release of genesis, the Poser community has gotten Mariko, Antonia, My Michelle, along with are completely reworked Alyson 2 (Anastasia). Miki 4 (a rework of Miki 3), and Tyler (the rework of Ryan 2) will arrive at the end of the month. There is at least 1 more male in the pipeline that I am aware of (Lucas) - I don't know the status of Brad (another male figure)

    In addition to these new figures, a group of folks are starting to rework G2 figures to take full advantage of both Poser 9/2012 capabilities, in addition to a much needed mesh cleanup.

    If Morphs for a central base was the "in thing" Apollo Maximus would have been ruling the DS4/Poser world since 2005. That mesh could go male to female and from adult to child to monster, just like genesis can - in 2005.

    The only content support a figure needs nowadays is Wardrobe Wizard or Xdresser. With either of these 2 products I can put any outfit on any character, DAZ, SM or independent.

    Let me show you some examples. These were some test shots for a fan fiction project I am fiddling with - I was testing some retexturing of outfits.

    The female image - The outfit is Courageous for V4. Going from left to right - V4, V3, Kez (an independent figure), G2 Sydney, Anastasia (Alyson 2), and Miki 2.

    The male image - The males are wearing the male counterpart Valiant for M4 - the male figures from left to right - M4, M3, Apollo Maximus (independent figure), Rikishi (independent figure), and G2 Kelvin. The V4 on the far left is in this to show the difference between the male & female tunic textures - different collars.

    I agree that being able to use any outfit for any character is a great thing - of course, I have been able to do that since 2006. Welcome to the party.

    600 x 308 - 127K
    600 x 392 - 215K
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,133
    edited December 1969

    ^That second shot is misleading because the female is NOT wearing the same shirt as the males.

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