It's just too bad . . .

24

Comments

  • BeaBea Posts: 188
    edited December 1969

    You know, I'd feel more sympathy if I ever logged into Smith Micro or Runtime DNA forums to complain about all the stuff that is released that is Poser only. There is so much stuff I'd love to use in Daz but it is made only for Poser. I guess I better head over to their forums asap and start complaining. "Stop releasing this cool stuff for Poser only, you're alienating people who use Daz."

    Runtimedna does actually produce a lot of items that will work in DAZ Studio. All of the items are marked if they will work in both softwares. There are a lot of vendors like Ali and I who always include DS files with their items there.

  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 627
    edited December 1969

    Bea said:
    You know, I'd feel more sympathy if I ever logged into Smith Micro or Runtime DNA forums to complain about all the stuff that is released that is Poser only. There is so much stuff I'd love to use in Daz but it is made only for Poser. I guess I better head over to their forums asap and start complaining. "Stop releasing this cool stuff for Poser only, you're alienating people who use Daz."

    Runtimedna does actually produce a lot of items that will work in DAZ Studio. All of the items are marked if they will work in both softwares. There are a lot of vendors like Ali and I who always include DS files with their items there.

    I know and I buy a lot of stuff from there actually. The point was that not everything there works in both pieces of software but I don't complain about it. I do hold out hope that some of it will get converted but I know the odds are relatively low.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited September 2012

    I'm calling BullShit on this statement of easier to make content for daz4,.. there are other sites runtime dna, , renderosity where the venders are making for both v4 & genesis products and are doing fairly well in this crappy economy.
    Some vender at renderosity have even stop making for genesis or have never started and just create gen4 products because their sales had sucked for genesis. Not to mention every other daz program release required the artist to do something new or different to make their products work in the new studio version. that is not progress to me or easier.

    A known fact daz sold tons of gen3 & gen4 content for their Studio program which had always worked in poser with out tools to make it work. now in order to use that same content you need to have a tool(auto-fit ) to work gen4 in Daz4 , or export it and then jump threw this hoop to make genesis work in poser, that is not progress and it is definitely not making the program easier to use for people that have been using daz &poser; programs for a long time. Yet they advertise Make art easier with da4 ( BULL its easier)
    Also you can't animate autofit tool with out all the clothes flying off unless you render your animation in single PNG keyframes instead of avi. who has time for that?

    Here is another example how every version of daz leaves older content in the dust..
    The Nerds3d VFX tools made for Daz3 still work great in Poser6 thru 2012pro. In Daz 4 not at all.. But they were originally made for Daz studio now they are only good in poser. there are other products like particle FX and all of dreamlights products Daz tells the vender its their responsibility to update their content. why? they don't need to update it for it to work in poser.
    But Daz still sells these on their site. because they know they work in poser even though they don't work in daz4. Dreamlight is not going to update his content until daz gets done messing around creating beta versions of the studio program. who could blame him.
    Daz's answer to ad VFX to a graphic is a Photoshop layer.( You can't animate a Photoshop layer if you need fire or smoke or lightening..) Don;t even get me started on my script library i have for daz3 and poser that won't work in daz 4.. That is not progress that is not easier. that is just sucker the customer into buying more Bright and shiny.
    Poser never changed how older content worked in their program. They may have new sss maps & shaders, IDL lighting etc.. but the older content will still work with out having a tool to make it so.. Daz can't say that. I think the excuse it easier to make daz4 content is a poor cop-out
    and that is just BS if your a poser & a long time Daz2 &3 user. if the product takes a little more time to create then charge a little more for it. If is good like Stonemasons or Merlin content people will buy it.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited September 2012

    I know and I buy a lot of stuff from there actually. The point was that not everything there works in both pieces of software but I don’t complain about it. I do hold out hope that some of it will get converted but I know the odds are relatively low.

    I don't think this is really comparing like with like. For years Daz has actively courted Poser users, made content that will work in both poser and daz. Heck you only have to look at the content manager to see the poser format in the file section. Now all of a sudden they start making a product that doesn't work in poser - which is up to them but they shouldn't be surprised when a proportion of their customer base complains and no longer wishes to play in their sandbox.

    Post edited by anikad on
  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,207
    edited December 1969

    zigraphix said:
    Taozen said:
    Doesn't work with stuff you have bought in bundles though (but it works on the bundles themselves).

    Do we still have a "Fun with Bundles" list anywhere that could be used to help with this? Is there some online format that could be used that would help you add this functionality? I have a website with software that can be used to store a database with RSS feeds, for example.

    Just checked my files - I knew I had a copy of that list and I found it. The original URL doesn't work anymore though.

    It's possible that it can be used, it depends on how consistent the data are and if the product names are exact. Will take a look at it when I get some time.

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    You know, I'd feel more sympathy if I ever logged into Smith Micro or Runtime DNA forums to complain about all the stuff that is released that is Poser only. There is so much stuff I'd love to use in Daz but it is made only for Poser. I guess I better head over to their forums asap and start complaining. "Stop releasing this cool stuff for Poser only, you're alienating people who use Daz."

    The difference is SM has never been a source for DS content. RDNA has products that are DS compatible, but they are mainly a Poser site. Until Genesis was released, Daz was also a huge source for Poser content before DS was ever released. You could only complain to SM or RDNA if they had always been a constant source for DS content which they have not.

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    zigraphix said:
    Taozen said:
    Doesn't work with stuff you have bought in bundles though (but it works on the bundles themselves).

    Do we still have a "Fun with Bundles" list anywhere that could be used to help with this? Is there some online format that could be used that would help you add this functionality? I have a website with software that can be used to store a database with RSS feeds, for example.

    Just checked my files - I knew I had a copy of that list and I found it. The original URL doesn't work anymore though.

    It's possible that it can be used, it depends on how consistent the data are and if the product names are exact. Will take a look at it when I get some time.


    You're welcome.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    I don't mean to sound crass or confrontational but, vote with your feet and your dollars.

    Don't swear to "Never come back" but leave until you hear word that things have changed and things are different.

    I'm sure that if they DID have Genesis waiting in the wings, they would be making sure the thing is tested to all Hell before aggravating there Poser user base again.

    BTW, DZFire has a new M4 only conforming robot figure for DAZ *AND* Poser avilable for sale for you Terminator/I Robot fans and it looks DAMN nice.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Oh and the Juggler for V4 is free too so you may want to grab that.

  • cimairacimaira Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:

    snipped

    I'm sure that if they DID have Genesis waiting in the wings, they would be making sure the thing is tested to all Hell before aggravating there Poser user base again.

    snipped
    .

    ROFLMBO... sorry, but this just struck me as hysterically funny! Since when did DAZ test anything "all to hell" before releasing it? More likely they would rush it out to the store, so they could try and quiet the complaints. Oh, and so the customers who purchased it could beta test it all to hell. lol, Sorry, still giggling. If your join date is correct, you've been here long enough to know better. But thanks for the giggle.

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited December 1969

    Well, that is true, but a point that is always brought up with that is, yes, there maybe Gen 4 items still coming out, but they may not be to the poser user's liking...

    All the "good stuff" is only for Genesis.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited September 2012

    RKane_1 said:
    Oh and the Juggler for V4 is free too so you may want to grab that.

    If your talking about this product http://www.daz3d.com/shop/juggling-act-for-v4
    it says its $99 which i think is a little steep too for v4 clothing :)

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • cimairacimaira Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ivy, the Juggle for V4 is the monthly Platinum Club freebie. It is marked at that price to discourage non PC members from purchasing it.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited December 1969

    cimaira said:
    Ivy, the Juggle for V4 is the monthly Platinum Club freebie. It is marked at that price to discourage non PC members from purchasing it.

    well it worked :)

  • cimairacimaira Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:
    cimaira said:
    Ivy, the Juggle for V4 is the monthly Platinum Club freebie. It is marked at that price to discourage non PC members from purchasing it.

    well it worked :)

    lol, no kidding! I'm not sure why it was even mentioned, since it is obviously not meant to be for general customers. I mean who's going to pay that price for a set of clothing. It looks like a wonderful set, but come on $99.00?!?!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited December 1969

    cimaira said:
    Ivy said:
    cimaira said:
    Ivy, the Juggle for V4 is the monthly Platinum Club freebie. It is marked at that price to discourage non PC members from purchasing it.

    well it worked :)

    lol, no kidding! I'm not sure why it was even mentioned, since it is obviously not meant to be for general customers. I mean who's going to pay that price for a set of clothing. It looks like a wonderful set, but come on $99.00?!?!

    For$99 I better be able to wear myself never mind v4 ..lol

    i didn't renew my pc when it ran out.. i opted for the prime at rendersoity,
    Plus I got $15 back in render rewards this month :)

  • estheresther Posts: 475
    edited December 1969

    It's just some sort of thing the website does with the free items I think. I just got it for zero dollars.
    love esther

  • ColdrakeColdrake Posts: 0
    edited September 2012

    Ivy said:

    I'm calling BullShit on this statement of easier to make content for daz4,..
    I take that you make content for DAZ Studio and Poser? Because that's the only way you would know.

    Ivy said:
    Some vender at renderosity have even stop making for genesis or have never started and just create gen4 products because their sales had sucked for genesis.
    Some vendors here stopped creating for Poser because their sales sucked. Same things happen on both sides.

    Ivy said:
    Not to mention every other daz program release required the artist to do something new or different to make their products work in the new studio version. that is not progress to me or easier.
    If that's true why does all my old content work in DAZ Studio 4.5? If you mean they need to do something new or different to take advantage of new features and innovations in new releases of DAZ Studio that's probably true.

    Ivy said:
    A known fact daz sold tons of gen3 & gen4 content for their Studio program which had always worked in poser with out tools to make it work. now in order to use that same content you need to have a tool(auto-fit ) to work gen4 in Daz4 ,

    No you don't need a tool to use gen 4 content in DAZ 4, all my older content works perfectly fine, just like it has in the last couple of versions.

    or export it and then jump threw this hoop to make genesis work in poser, that is not progress and it is definitely not making the program easier to use for people that have been using daz &poser; programs for a long time.


    It's not progress in Poser (yet) but it's definitely progress in DAZ Studio, and it certainly makes thing easier in DAZ Studio. You can't keep using the same technology forever, you need innovations to make progress and move forward. By the way, I've been using Poser for 14 years and DAZ Studio for 4 years.

    Here is another example how every version of daz leaves older content in the dust..
    The Nerds3d VFX tools made for Daz3 still work great in Poser6 thru 2012pro. In Daz 4 not at all.. But they were originally made for Daz studio now they are only good in poser. there are other products like particle FX and all of dreamlights products Daz tells the vender its their responsibility to update their content. why? they don't need to update it for it to work in poser.
    But Daz still sells these on their site. because they know they work in poser even though they don't work in daz4. Dreamlight is not going to update his content until daz gets done messing around creating beta versions of the studio program. who could blame him.


    DAZ Studio 4.5 is not beta and the SDK has been out for weeks.

    Poser never changed how older content worked in their program.


    Then why did so many plug-ins and scripts have to be updated for Poser Pro 2012, (and there are still some that haven't been updated and won't work). Have you tried using the wind control in the Poser cloth room since SR3 came out? It's broken. I'm just saying that these things happen in both programs.


    Coldrake

    Post edited by Coldrake on
  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,768
    edited December 1969

    cimaira said:
    Ivy said:
    cimaira said:
    Ivy, the Juggle for V4 is the monthly Platinum Club freebie. It is marked at that price to discourage non PC members from purchasing it.

    well it worked :)

    lol, no kidding! I'm not sure why it was even mentioned, since it is obviously not meant to be for general customers. I mean who's going to pay that price for a set of clothing. It looks like a wonderful set, but come on $99.00?!?!

    Based on what has happened with previous PC monthly freebies, it will probably be on sale to everyone else for a more normal price in about a month as a DAZ Original.

    Regarding the data about sales figures for Genesis vs. V4 products... I don't make conforming content for sale myself, but I do have the reliable word of several other PAs who do, and that's what they're telling me. As far as how easy or difficult it is to make content for Genesis as opposed to earlier figures, I guess I do know something about that, seeing as I wrote the first draft of the documentation for the new content creation tools. Supporting a wide variety of figure morphs is a lot less work with Genesis. That's simply true. On the other hand, the behavior of the smoothing algorithm is a mixed bag. Smoothing helps a lot with minor poke-through, but also loses definition and crisp edges on many models (hence the larger buttons we're seeing on clothing recently). And the new method of rigging, using multiple weight maps per joint, takes a lot of getting used to. And the tools (surprise surprise) are still somewhat buggy, which is very frustrating for content creators.

    Many of us think this technology will ultimately support better images, though. For Poser users, too. And even eventually for people doing animation, perhaps. (I do very little animation myself, so I can't claim to know how badly DS4 is behaving there compared to earlier versions.) Clearly it's going to take a lot longer than the folks at DAZ thought it would.

    Meanwhile... I have to admit, I haven't really switched to using Genesis in my projects yet. On the other hand, I've got tons and tons of content for previous generation figures that I've barely used, some that I've never used. I still pick up the occasional item if I think it would come in handy for a specific project and it's at an especially good discount, but other than that... I'm just tinkering with the new stuff to see where it's going. That's fun for me. Obviously it's not fun for everyone... people need to do what works best for them.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:
    Here is another example how every version of daz leaves older content in the dust..
    The Nerds3d VFX tools made for Daz3 still work great in Poser6 thru 2012pro. In Daz 4 not at all.. But they were originally made for Daz studio now they are only good in poser. there are other products like particle FX and all of dreamlights products Daz tells the vender its their responsibility to update their content. why? they don't need to update it for it to work in poser.
    But Daz still sells these on their site. because they know they work in poser even though they don't work in daz4. Dreamlight is not going to update his content until daz gets done messing around creating beta versions of the studio program. who could blame him.

    poser has barely changed in the years :roll:
    one of the reasons that I find less and less to use. :ohh:
    and to animate I never found it good :coolmad:
    there is a lot of work to improve poser. :red:
    a new build from the beginning would not be bad for poser. :-/

    Ivy said:
    Poser never changed how older content worked in their program.

    Poser kernel ins't changed, so plugins and content are very fast updated.

    with the new studio it's build up from "0" or recompile

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    Bea said:
    You know, I'd feel more sympathy if I ever logged into Smith Micro or Runtime DNA forums to complain about all the stuff that is released that is Poser only. There is so much stuff I'd love to use in Daz but it is made only for Poser. I guess I better head over to their forums asap and start complaining. "Stop releasing this cool stuff for Poser only, you're alienating people who use Daz."

    Runtimedna does actually produce a lot of items that will work in DAZ Studio. All of the items are marked if they will work in both softwares. There are a lot of vendors like Ali and I who always include DS files with their items there.

    on Renderosity, there 's lot of poser only stuff! :coolhmm:
    we all can start complaining on the other forums.
    would that solve something? I do not think so

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:

    I'm calling BullShit on this statement of easier to make content for daz4

    The statement is that content is easier to make for Genesis, not DS4 in general, and several well respected PAs have said that is exactly the case. At least one of them has said it directly to you.

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    When Genesis came out, and SM announced they weren't going to offer full support, Poser users had my sympathy.

    Now, with the perpetual whining at DAZ, and not at SM, they've lost my sympathy, I'm well past ambivalence, and heading into open annoyance.

    Not the way to persuade people to support your cause, people!

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,237
    edited September 2012

    Ivy said:
    ... they can't understand that when poser makes a new version of their program all their older program stuff will still work in Poser with no extra hoops to jump through. unlike in daz. when daz makes a new version. Everything changes every time.
    Every new version requires you to buy all new products or tools to get the older version products to work.. that is just sorry in my book.
    ...

    Like how my Poser5 Python Scripts (and one of them never replaced) didn't work in P7. Like how my Poser8 Python scripts don't work in PP2012.
    Like how I have to buy RenderStudio and Library manager again and again with each new version.
    Like how figures that worked in Poser up to 8 don't work in PP2012 anymore (BJD Type2) without working myself on them.
    Sorry - but I am so often hearing that Poser content is always working in new versions that I am not happy about it.
    I like both softwares (see my signature).

    Post edited by Kerya on
  • Velvet GoblinVelvet Goblin Posts: 376
    edited September 2012

    fixme12 said:
    Bea said:
    You know, I'd feel more sympathy if I ever logged into Smith Micro or Runtime DNA forums to complain about all the stuff that is released that is Poser only. There is so much stuff I'd love to use in Daz but it is made only for Poser. I guess I better head over to their forums asap and start complaining. "Stop releasing this cool stuff for Poser only, you're alienating people who use Daz."

    Runtimedna does actually produce a lot of items that will work in DAZ Studio. All of the items are marked if they will work in both softwares. There are a lot of vendors like Ali and I who always include DS files with their items there.

    on Renderosity, there 's lot of poser only stuff! :coolhmm:
    we all can start complaining on the other forums.
    would that solve something? I do not think so

    Did you pay for 2 years membership in Renderosity Prime on the promises that they would continue to support DS? Only to find that only 1 in 5 releases would even load in DS, and many of those were poses designed to work with old props? Because if you did, yeah, you have a right to complain.

    That's my beef. Not with what's in the Daz store. But what's available to me, as a benefit of my PC membership.

    There's plenty of stuff in the Daz store to keep me happy in that regard. I'm buying crap loads of props.

    The PC, though, is.... disappointing. It's not worth converting the Genesis clothes.

    Get Genesis -- and Genesis clothing -- to work in Poser better than it does now, and the discount on Daz Originals and the monthly voucher will become useful again. Otherwise, it's not a sound expenditure.

    Post edited by Velvet Goblin on
  • Velvet GoblinVelvet Goblin Posts: 376
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    When Genesis came out, and SM announced they weren't going to offer full support, Poser users had my sympathy.

    Now, with the perpetual whining at DAZ, and not at SM, they've lost my sympathy, I'm well past ambivalence, and heading into open annoyance.

    Not the way to persuade people to support your cause, people!

    Unless you're representing Daz officially, I don't need your support or care about your opinion.

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    When Genesis came out, and SM announced they weren't going to offer full support, Poser users had my sympathy.

    Now, with the perpetual whining at DAZ, and not at SM, they've lost my sympathy, I'm well past ambivalence, and heading into open annoyance.

    Not the way to persuade people to support your cause, people!

    Unless you're representing Daz officially, I don't need your support or care about your opinion.

    Doesn't it help to have support from both sides of the divide? I've certainly suggested ways DAZ might ameliorate the situation for Poser users (a Genesis Base CR2 rather than requiring the export process) in the past, but I don't see a reason to make that effort any more, and it's the Poser users who are driving me to that, not DAZ.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,878
    edited December 1969

    Poser users have a legitimate complaint about lack of new products they can use, at least when it comes to clothing and to a lesser extent characters. There may be something coming that will go at least some way towards ameliorating that situation (though it should be noted that BFurner's post used neither "soon" nor "game changing").

    People do not need to justify their choice of application - if people want to use Poser, or an older version of DAZ Studio, that is nobody's call but their own (system specs permitting, of course).

    On the other hand, there have been a number of gross exaggerations about the way DAZ 3D develops and supports its software in this thread - while it's true DS4.0 went through a lot of updates, and that the recently released DS 4.5 SDK has not yet produced updates for a number of popular plugins, it is certainly not true to describe DS as in perpetual beta - DS3 used the same SDK, or at least was able to maintain backward compatibility, throughout its development (and it had a manual, too). It is important, if you want to criticise, to make sure that your criticism reflects reality.

    It is also important not to seize on odd words as the basis of criticism - my use of "cool", as a shorthand for interesting, useful or offering new avenues for use for example, or the infamous "DAZ soon".

    As with so many of these conversations, far too many people are taking entrenched positions and are using selected facts as incendiaries rather than sources of illumination. There are real issues here, please discuss them n a civil and sensible fashion.

  • fonpaolofonpaolo Posts: 229
    edited December 1969

    Sorry Richard, It's the same story every time in every forum, always the same old story.... :sick:

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:

    The Nerds3d VFX tools made for Daz3 still work great in Poser6 thru 2012pro. In Daz 4 not at all..

    Image 1, DS3, image 2, DS4.5. Both using the same setup with Nerd 3D's Deluxe Fog III, I just swapped the Troll for S5. Necessary changes, I dialled Fog A and B back to 25% opacity, dropped the external lights from 200% to 100% (which is the same level of light tweaking I'd expect in any image).

    S5_Curvy_Fog.jpg
    848 x 1199 - 43K
    A_Good_Man_in_A_Fight_-_Redux.jpg
    1500 x 1500 - 200K
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