Cat-like ’eyeshine’ in Daz 3D - Tutorial Page 6

13

Comments

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    Ok, I worked out why I was getting reflections with nothing to be reflected!! The reflection colour MUST be set to near black - but not pure black. Foolishly, I had it set near white with a tint of blue :grrr: that was why the eyes were glowing in appearance.

    @Chohole - Your son was totally right... Uber Surface base shader really *is* necessary.

    Here are the quick test renders...

    I'll continue to tweak the parameters.

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  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    Some progress...

    Using Specular and Specular2 as the primary eyeshine. Still playing with the settings. Specular2 is the bright highlights of the eyeshine while Specular1 is a base for the rest of the pupil.

    Reflection colour is 35 35 35 or about 80% black. Reflection is 20% blur and 60% Strength.

    No ambient at all.

    Below are three renders, the first is Spec1, second Spec2 and last both specular channels combined.

    Edit: Combined image comparison below.

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,754
    edited December 1969

    Looking good. Great progress

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,728
    edited December 1969

    Oh wow, those look really good.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    Haha! Thanks you two :lol:

    Here is some renders of lighting as it rotates around the face, light is locked on right eye. I did this to check that the specular reflections were behaving. I think I'm getting close now... I'll have to give it a go with the full lighting set as well as some Night lighting.

    I think my day off from work has proven rather productive :cheese:

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,754
    edited December 1969

    Yes, I would say so. I need to set a character up especially to go any further with my Bryce try, as the one I am using doesn't have enlarged puipils. I tried with a night time lighting setup, and I got a great glow from the pupils, but the Iris didn't react so well.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    haha! Yeah I better conqure reflections reflections first lol, I've found atm that environment reflections illuminate without lights or anything to reflect! and raytrace isn't reflecting the light other than a white dot! Thinking maybe Bryce is the way to go at this point :-/

    Could you post an example?

    Kendall

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Yes, I would say so. I need to set a character up especially to go any further with my Bryce try, as the one I am using doesn't have enlarged puipils. I tried with a night time lighting setup, and I got a great glow from the pupils, but the Iris didn't react so well.

    Yeah, I havn't yet tried the FULL Riddick look yet but it will be interesting to give it a go. I'm thinking a 3D Riddick would go well for a Sci-Fi or Halloween render thread! Although the genesis render thread thats going might be a good place too.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    haha! Yeah I better conqure reflections reflections first lol, I've found atm that environment reflections illuminate without lights or anything to reflect! and raytrace isn't reflecting the light other than a white dot! Thinking maybe Bryce is the way to go at this point :-/

    Could you post an example?

    Kendall

    It's all good now, I realised the specular channel was the key to the reflections, the actual Reflection channel had to be at a low setting with a reasonably black Reflection colour. It was doing my head in at the time, as it was giveing a phantom glow to the pupil without any light or anything to reflect.

    Thanks man for the concern :)

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    Night Render :vampire:

    After toying with a Riddick Render I descovered there must be some form of direct lighting... Specular lights are great! If not a 50% Ambient of the desired eyeshine colour covers it.

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  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited December 1969

    Here's an example of what I mentioned with the pointlights for glow...

    That last example of yours looks great... very well done on the eye shimer effect! ;)

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  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    chris said:
    Here's an example of what I mentioned with the pointlights for glow...

    That last example of yours looks great... very well done on the eye shimer effect! ;)

    Wow, that's a fantastic render chris! Love the cyclops glowing eye :-) I certainly see what you were talking about, very effective I might add!

    Yeah, I'm still playing with it atm, It's eventually became more of a multi specular list of parameters. Like in the real world, It's actually rather difficult to light accurately within the full scene... I tried out a Riddick character using similar approach, but the anatomy of Riddicks eye (I've found) is somewhat different to the pupil of a cat like eye. But of course, particularly the first couple of Idea's really re-enforce the Multi Specular material in a full set of lighting... Ambiance Idea definitely helps when necessary!

    With anyone intending to attempt Riddick eye style, Kendalls Idea for the use on the Pupil and the Iris is definitely the way to go!

    But as far as what I'm going for, (The Cats eye) I'm getting close I think. When I'm done tweaking, I'll post my findings in a tutorial for everyone to use :)

    Post edited by SpyroRue on
  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited August 2012

    Ty... The pointlight idea can be quite usefull but also very difficult to achieve... it took alot of tweeking and a whole whackload of renders testing different settings on the light to get it right... but the pay-off is worth the effort in the long run...

    Well done thus far and it looks like you are point on for the effect you're trying for... I'll look forward to seeing the end result ;)

    Post edited by chrisschell on
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    Ty... The pointlight idea can be quite usefull but also very difficult to achieve... it took alot of tweeking and a whole whackload of renders testing different settings on the light to get it right... but the pay-off is worth the effort in the long run...

    Well done thus far and it looks like you are point on for the effect you're trying for... I'll look forward to seeing the end result ;)

    Yeah I imagine it would! I filled up my desktop screen almost completely with test renders with the eyes I was working on, thats not including the save overrides I did.

    I'm setting up a full scene which is in progress as well as finalizing the texture parameters... Just trying to set up some good lighting, with a soft direct light and camera angle that will give full attention to the subject of reflective eyes. That Is almost as much work as making the eyes lol

  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited December 1969

    Lol... yeah... there are 3 things i've noticed that take more work that anything else about a scene... setting up good surfaces for the effect you want, getting the lighting right and getting it to work with your surfaces... and camera placement and settings... a scene that takes 5 mins to set-up and fill with figures can take hours of futzing and tinkering to get the surfaces and lights to co-operate... and then all that can still be ruined with bad camera settings and getting those just perfect can take just as long as the surfaces and lights! lol

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    Here is my first serious render of eyeshine... Took me all night... Just sayin %-P ... There was post work on this render, But I DID NOT touch the eyes.

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,536
    edited December 1969

    I like it allot. You going to release a nice little freebie?? :coolgrin:

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,754
    edited December 1969

    That is lookin good

  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited August 2012

    Nice work... she looks good... If you don't mind a suggestion I'd maybe add a slight green or red tint to the eyeshine (you'll see a colour shift like that in a cats or dogs eyes depending on angle and light source)... don't make it too strong if you do... just a subtle suggestion of colour... but that's just a suggestion.. all in all very nicely done! :)

    Post edited by chrisschell on
  • FlamewingFlamewing Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well, I don't have the eyeshine shader, but my trick was applying Sha's free water shader to the eyes, upping the transparency, fiddling with the specular & ambient values.

    First image is without the shine; second with....

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    without_glow.jpg
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  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    First off, Thankyou guys, that really means allot to me :cheese:

    Just to clarify things, this is not an 'invented' shader or anything like that. It's not a commercial thread for a product lol This is simply a learning thread, where idea's are being thrown around, mixed and matched and identifying the pros and flaws of what works and what can be improved :)

    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, a tutorial of various methods from all the help of everyone during the process and the findings will be written up shortly.

    @Flamewing - Love the eyes Flamewing! It's great to see :) Nice colour and ambiance! (With that Idea, (I tested it out a while ago) An ambient map is really effective, If you got Photoshop, it's really fun to control the ambiance and it doesn't have to be just the pupil either. If you look back in this thread you'll see an example and a downsized ambient map on the eye that I painted)

    @Chrisschell - Yes colours are VERY effective. With most of my learning in this thread, I've been very influenced by Riddick (At least for the Pupil) And I just love the colour blue lol! I attached a quick render of green eyeshine, using pretty much the same parameters of the blue eyes... Just changed the spec colours of spec1 and spec2 from pale blue to green. And OF COURSE, the vibrancy of the colours can be altered to suit the environment of the character.

    For this render, I used the lights from the recent full scene render. Blue changed to green. Had to set the vibrant of the green to a brighter hue as the lighting is a bluish night style. Also after Flamewing's post, I incorporated a subtle Iris Ambient map. Iris was also changed from blue to yellow. %-P

    Also, in my research into eyeshine, the colour of the eyeshine is often differing between nocturnal species. The most common colours are generally Yellow and Green, much fewer species are Blue. ---------- Generally Red is not 'eyeshine', as it isn't reflected light from the tapetum lucidum layer of tissue, which of course, almost all nocturnal species have. (Humans don't) (See page 4 of thread) The red reflected light is called Red-Eye which is visually distinguished from eyeshine. It also has a different parameters formula (In terms of the 3d world).

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  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    Eyeshine or Cat’s eyes Tutorial (Daz Studio)
    By marcusfinnigon

    Introduction:

    This tutorial is a combination of various Ideas from various members of the Daz Community. (See Acknowledgements). The objective is to create a pupil, iris and cornea material, texture or shader in DAZ 3D, that reacts to light and reflects it with the angle of lighting and the camera in mind. The Idea Is to simulate ‘Eye-shine’ like many of the nocturnal members of the animal kingdom.

    Requirements:
    - Daz Studio 4.5 (Pro)
    - Uber Surface or HSS (Human Surface Shader)
    - Genesis or Generation 4 Characters

    Tutorial:

    1 – Load figure, create and morph to your heart’s content. Apply desired figure Textures and so on.

    2 – In the Surfaces (materials parameters) tab, select the Pupil, Iris and Cornea and apply ‘Uber Surface Base’ shader.

    3 – Surface Parameters: (Cornea) Glass like properties.

    Diffuse Colour: 255 255 255
    Diffuse Active: On
    Diffuse Strength: 100%
    Diffuse Roughness: 1.00
    Opacity Strength 0.0%
    Opacity Active: On
    Opacity Colour 242 253 255
    Refraction Active: On
    Index of Refraction: 1.00
    Specular Active: On
    Specular Colour: 255 255 255
    Specular Strength 100%
    Glossiness: 75%
    Specular Sharpness 85%
    Reflection Active: On
    Reflection Mode: Raytrace
    Reflection Colour: 255 255 255
    Reflection Strength 29.0%
    Reflection Blur 0%
    Reflection Blur Samples: 4
    Multiply Reflection through opacity: Off
    Accept Shadows: On

    4 – Apply desired diffuse, bump, specular textures to the Iris and Pupil. The cornea, I’ve found really shouldn’t have an opacity map... I found it rather impractical with the effects of the Pupil and Iris. And the ‘imitation’ reflection of light usually never matches the scene anyway.

    5 – Surface Parameters: (Pupil)
    For the sake of this section in the tutorial, I have used a pale-blue coloured eyeshine which can be adjusted in hue and saturation to your desired look and colour. But try to keep the same darkness as the two specular channels are layered and have differing purposes.

    Diffuse Colour: (Add desired Material) 255 255 255
    Diffuse Active: On
    Diffuse Strength: 100%
    Diffuse Roughness: 1.00
    Opacity Strength: 100%
    Opacity Active: On
    Opacity Colour: (No mat) 255 255 255

    Specular Active: On
    Specular Colour: (No Mat) 185 227 255
    Specular Strength 40%
    Glossiness 4%
    Specular Sharpness: 0%

    Specular2 Active: On
    EDIT: Specular2 Colour: (No Material) 188 223 255
    Specular2 Strength: 65%
    Specular2 Roughness: 22%
    Specular2 Sharpness: 0%
    Multiply Specular Through Opacity: On

    Ambient Active: Off --- (This can be used on a low setting, but should only be used as a last resort, as under the correct lighting conditions and angle of camera the specular lights up the pupil nicely).

    Reflection Active: On
    Reflection Mode: Environment Map
    Environment Map: (No Material) 255 255 255
    Reflection Colour: 35 35 35 ((Must be a dark colour, close to black but not totally black. If it is set on a bright colour the pupil will illuminate even without light to reflect) Reason for having reflections on is because even in poor lighting the nocturnal pupil still has a soft reflection of light).
    Reflection Strength: 60%
    Reflection Blur: 20%
    Reflection Blur Samples: 20
    Multiply Reflection through opacity: On

    Raytrace: On
    Accept Shadows: On
    Occlusion: On
    Occlusion Shading rate mode: Global

    6 – Surface Parameters: (Iris)
    For the sake of this section in the tutorial, I have used a soft-yellow coloured specular which can be adjusted in hue and saturation to your desired look and colour. (Make sure it’s the applicable colour of your Iris texture and that it blends with the chosen colour of your pupils eyeshine).

    This is not required, but it adds a nice reflective blend between the pupil and the iris.

    Diffuse Colour: (Add desired Material) 255 255 255
    Diffuse Active: On
    Diffuse Strength: 100%
    Diffuse Roughness: 1.00
    Opacity Strength: 100%
    Opacity Active: On
    Opacity Colour: (No mat) 255 255 255

    Bump Active: On
    Bump Strength: (Desired Bump Material) 10%* (Subject to change depending on the material)

    Specular Active: On
    Specular Colour: (No Material) 255 255 192
    Specular Strength: (Add the iris texture) 20%
    Glossiness: 4%
    Specular Sharpness: 0%

    Accept Shadows: On


    Special Notes:

    This tutorial has been written and posted for the Daz forums. This tutorial is not to be re-posted on any other website. This tutorial was made for use in Daz Studio 4.5 and Pro, and is purely for tutorial learning purposes.

    I HAVE NOT LISTED any UN-USED CHANNELS in the Surfaces tab.

    Acknowledgements:

    Special Thanks to the following Daz Members for their resourceful contributions, support and Idea’s on the methods of achieving the contents of this tutorial.

    - DaWaterRat
    - Chohole (Administrator)
    - ‘Son’ of Chohole
    - Slimer_J_Spud
    - Mattymanx
    - Chrisschell
    - Kendall Sears
    - ThinMick
    - Flamewing

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,536
    edited December 1969

    AWESOME Tutorial! Thanks so much!

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    AWESOME Tutorial! Thanks so much!

    Your welcome :cheese:

  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited August 2012

    True enough... and no mostly red doesn't show up in 'eyeshine' often... though depending on the angle of the eyes it does show up along with the normal greenish shine.. particularly if the eyes are turned downwards... can also be a green-orange or green-yellow depending again on light conditions and angle (I've seen it in my pups eyes at night when we're watching tv even that slight red or orange-ish tint as he looks away and the angle of view changes)... at any rate was just a suggestion... over all great tut and great job!

    For the Riddik effect it's absolutely spot on in my opinion and very well done :)

    Post edited by chrisschell on
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Chriss! I have noticed it can vary somewhat in colour under different angles. Lighting obviously dramatically influences it. My cat has conveniently been sitting at my computer desk the last few nights, he probably thinks I'm a nutter since I've been staring at his eyes between food and Daz lol But I certainly know what your talking about.

    If it were to be done in daz or 3d for that matter the shader would have to be like one of those car surfaces that changes colour in differing angles. Lol, but I'll leave that for the more skill-full people to expand upon lol. %-P

  • chrisschellchrisschell Posts: 129
    edited December 1969

    You're quite welcome... I'm just glad I could add some input that someone may find usefull... you've done a good job here... and so has everyone else that contributed... Thank-you :)

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Chriss! I have noticed it can vary somewhat in colour under different angles. Lighting obviously dramatically influences it. My cat has conveniently been sitting at my computer desk the last few nights, he probably thinks I'm a nutter since I've been staring at his eyes between food and Daz lol But I certainly know what your talking about.

    If it were to be done in daz or 3d for that matter the shader would have to be like one of those car surfaces that changes colour in differing angles. Lol, but I'll leave that for the more skill-full people to expand upon lol. %-P

    Hmmm.... some ideas pop into mind, but I've no time right now to play with it. :-(

    Kendall

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited August 2012

    Thanks Chriss! I have noticed it can vary somewhat in colour under different angles. Lighting obviously dramatically influences it. My cat has conveniently been sitting at my computer desk the last few nights, he probably thinks I'm a nutter since I've been staring at his eyes between food and Daz lol But I certainly know what your talking about.

    If it were to be done in daz or 3d for that matter the shader would have to be like one of those car surfaces that changes colour in differing angles. Lol, but I'll leave that for the more skill-full people to expand upon lol. %-P

    Hmmm.... some ideas pop into mind, but I've no time right now to play with it. :-(

    Kendall

    LOL I imagine you would Kendall! Your very intuitional :-)

    Post edited by SpyroRue on
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,951
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Yes, I would say so. I need to set a character up especially to go any further with my Bryce try, as the one I am using doesn't have enlarged puipils. I tried with a night time lighting setup, and I got a great glow from the pupils, but the Iris didn't react so well.

    Cho, If you're still working on this, I'd be very much interested in seeing your progress in bryce! Your earlier posted render was very inspiring! :cheese:

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