Studio 4.5 consistently crash when rendering

kk2kk2 Posts: 0
edited August 2012 in Daz Studio Discussion

Hi,

I recently upgraded from DS4 Pro 4.0.3.47 to 4.5.0.114. Studio will consistently crash if I render with the following:

- Use "Hardware Assisted" render engine with GLSL turned on (crash at the start of the render)
- Use 3Delight engine, and turned on "Progressive Render" (crash at about 1/3 of the render)
- Use 3Delight engine, turned off "Progressive Render" but there's at least 1 area light turned on in the scene (crash at the end of the render, which is frustrating cos it's finished but cannot save the result)

Note on the last case, I tested it with Lantios Portrait Lights (sku 13669). However it seem to crash on new instances of area lights. I have a scene which uses it back in 4.0.3x times, load it, and it renders fine. However, loading a new instance from the Content Library in a new scene (with 1 instance of genesis) always lead to a crash at the end of the render.

ATM I'm rendering with 3Delight and "Progressive Render" turned off, even for previews, and every time hope it wouldn't crash (cos it will, just a question of how many renders done after DS start) or scream in rage for any unsaved works (cos sometimes, at least on 4.0.3, DS won't even let me save my works, the save button simply don't work).

Any ideas on how to address the render problems?

TIA

PS: Another thing I noticed is the injectPMD plugin refuse to load, which works fine on 4.0.3. Is it not compatible?

Update:
I tested several new scenes with 1 Genesis instance and no textures loaded. Using the default presets for area light and UberEnvironment2 yields to mixed result. More often than not, if any of those light is present, render will crash, but sometimes it didn't. This is true whether those type of lights are used separately or together. UberEnvironment2 is more problematic however. Every time it crash I restart DS and create a fresh new scene, no scene loading involved.

Post edited by kk2 on
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Comments

  • edited December 1969

    Just installed DS 4.5 - Did a few quick spot renders with Uber Environment 2 from a previous saved scene with no issues. So far. Actually. It seemed to render quicker.

    Will be doing more tests tonight.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,354
    edited December 1969

    kk2 said:
    Hi,

    I recently upgraded from DS4 Pro 4.0.3.47 to 4.5.0.114. Studio will consistently crash if I render with the following:

    - Use "Hardware Assisted" render engine with GLSL turned on (crash at the start of the render)
    - Use 3Delight engine, and turned on "Progressive Render" (crash at about 1/3 of the render)
    - Use 3Delight engine, turned off "Progressive Render" but there's at least 1 area light turned on in the scene (crash at the end of the render, which is frustrating cos it's finished but cannot save the result)

    Note on the last case, I tested it with Lantios Portrait Lights (sku 13669). However it seem to crash on new instances of area lights. I have a scene which uses it back in 4.0.3x times, load it, and it renders fine. However, loading a new instance from the Content Library in a new scene (with 1 instance of genesis) always lead to a crash at the end of the render.

    ATM I'm rendering with 3Delight and "Progressive Render" turned off, even for previews, and every time hope it wouldn't crash (cos it will, just a question of how many renders done after DS start) or scream in rage for any unsaved works (cos sometimes, at least on 4.0.3, DS won't even let me save my works, the save button simply don't work).

    Any ideas on how to address the render problems?

    TIA

    PS: Another thing I noticed is the injectPMD plugin refuse to load, which works fine on 4.0.3. Is it not compatible?

    Update:
    I tested several new scenes with 1 Genesis instance and no textures loaded. Using the default presets for area light and UberEnvironment2 yields to mixed result. More often than not, if any of those light is present, render will crash, but sometimes it didn't. This is true whether those type of lights are used separately or together. UberEnvironment2 is more problematic however. Every time it crash I restart DS and create a fresh new scene, no scene loading involved.

    What Operating System are you using, and what are your machine specs (processor, memory etc)?

  • SidSid Posts: 30
    edited August 2012

    I have had numerous crashes also, more than with 4.0.

    Where is the 'progressive render' option? I have a scene that is running into a memory error about a third of the way in, so wanted to see if that was the problem, but can't see that on the settings anywhere.

    Post edited by Sid on
  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,043
    edited December 1969

    "Progressive render" has never worked, so don't use it, otherwise you'll spend your time picking up pieces of DS4 from your desktop

  • kk2kk2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    What Operating System are you using, and what are your machine specs (processor, memory etc)?
    Sorry, forgot to include that info. Here it is:

    Hardware:
    - Intel i3 3ghz,
    - MSI PH67A-C43 mobo,
    - 4GB Corsair RAM,
    - NVidia 8500GS Graphics

    Software:
    - Win 7 SP1 x86
    - NVidia Driver 275.x (not yet upgraded cos other program needed that)

    I have had numerous crashes also, more than with 4.0.

    Where is the 'progressive render' option? I have a scene that is running into a memory error about a third of the way in, so wanted to see if that was the problem, but can't see that on the settings anywhere.


    Yup, I found 4.5 rather shaky as well, but it does render a bit faster than 4.0.3.x

    As for "Progressive Render" render option, it's on the "Render Setting" tab, a checkbox right below "Render Engine" settings. AFAIK it's turned off by default, or at least I found it that way. Dunno if it's carry over from upgrading previous versions, being turned off I mean.

    One other thing which seems helped 4.5 stability is to turn off the "Content Management" service. Ever since I 1st use DS4 I always turn it off, cos I don't see any value of it other than chomping CPU cycles. Previously it doesn't seem to matter whether it's running or not, but with 4.5 I got less crash if it's turned off. If you're on windows, you can turn it off by using the "Stop DAZ Content Management Service" from the start menu, but it'll be back on after reboot. If you want to turn it off permanently, but short of completely uninstalling it:

    1. go to the "services" window (just type "services" in the start menu "search program and files" box, and click on "services" shortcut afterwards if on 7)

    2. find the "DAZ Content Management Services" from the list, right-click on it and select "properties"

    3. Stop the service if it's still running and set the startup type to "Manual"

    Dunno about Mac though.

  • kk2kk2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Bejaymac said:
    "Progressive render" has never worked, so don't use it, otherwise you'll spend your time picking up pieces of DS4 from your desktop

    Huh, I thought I'm the only one always having a problem with it. If that is so, why does the dev team put/leave it there?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,937
    edited December 1969

    Progressive render uses a lot of RAm. It's useful for getting a quick preview of how the lighting is falling and so on, but should always be cancelled before it has a chance to glomp all your RAM and then some, causing a crash.

  • carpeviscarpevis Posts: 0
    edited August 2012

    I have the same problem with DAZ crashing. It won't render with any rendering engine, and I had a complicated scene that took me two hours to set up that went with it.

    By the way, what moron developer decided not to save the scene over the top of the one you opened automatically so you have to manually select or type in a name and tell it yes, it's okay to overwrite what's there over and over and over? What fruitcake didn't create a parallel file that saves the data as it's created to restore the work if there's a crash? Seriously, I know it's a pointlessly complicated program and in serious need of being streamlined, but still, these are pretty basic things that all programs have.

    That said (and I feel better for that, thanks), what is the advisability of uninstalling DAZ 4.5 and reinstalling 4.0? 4.0 worked great, I could render and do things just fine. 4.5 has been a disaster. Is the new file type something 4.0 can open the same, or does that mean the last three days of work are screwed, too?

    For the geeks, here's the sysinfo:
    Core2Duo 3.0
    2 GB RAM
    Win XP Pro 32 bit
    Nvidia GPS250 with up-to-date drivers.
    7TB hard drive space.

    Post edited by carpevis on
  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,354
    edited December 1969

    I would imagine that you can go back to the 4.0 version by re-installing it, but the new file format, DUF, will not open in the older versions, none of the scene file formats are backwardly compatible.

    Your system has only 2 GB of RAM which is almost certainly the main problem. My version of DS4P (4.5) takes up about 500 KB of memory, add that to what XP uses, and you have very little memory left for rendering. You can watch the amount of memory being used in the Task Manager on XP to confirm that as the problem.

  • carpeviscarpevis Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    My system never went above 1.7 GB of use. I run a lean ship without a bunch of useless background programs running. Windows itself only uses about 300MB on my system, and it's rated down to 128 MB (but I don't recommend it).

    I've uninstalled it and reinstalled 4.0 Pro, but now my serial number for the 4.0 Pro doesn't work. I even re-obtained a serial number for the autofit tool and IT doesn't work. All I can figure is that DAZ isn't accepting any serials from 4.0 at all regardless of when it was installed. I got mine installed in April.

    If 4.5 can't render on my system, I don't see the point of having it - ESPECIALLY in light of the fact I have valid serials for the previous things that used to work that won't validate it.

    I'll try a system restore. If that doesn't work, I'll use the image I made last Sunday to restore functionality. So all is not lost. But it's a pain in the tucas...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,937
    edited December 1969

    carpevis said:
    By the way, what ... developer decided not to save the scene over the top of the one you opened automatically so you have to manually select or type in a name and tell it yes, it's okay to overwrite what's there over and over and over?

    Enter some details in the user data and it should stop prompting - they did that to make it harder to accidentally over-write content files, it should prompt unless the creator name matches the current user.

  • jmoxjmox Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    I too am having the same issue i'm going to try reseting to factory settings not 100 % it might be a setting i tweeked just a suggestion

  • edited December 1969

    I understand you probably keep a clean running machine. But I think it is a RAM issue. I have not had any crashes on my I7 - 6GB RAM mediocre graphics card machine running Windows 7. I notice my renders come out much faster but it also put my machine into overdrive. I changed my affinity which worked with DS4 very well (didn't stress out my whole system but maybe made renders times longer. I am not sure what is happening with DS 4.5. I was using 5 cores like usual but my computer was screaming.

    I looked at my RAM usage during a render and it was a little below 1.2 GB of RAM for a low poly scene. I was using different prop yesterday and it was heavy (lots of polys) Lots of different textures all over the place. had to spend 30 minutes just turning things off and deleting. Some thoughts to consider.


    Renders faster. Stresses my computer. I am going to try changing the priority of DS 4.5 next and see if that smooths things out.

  • GreywulfGreywulf Posts: 28
    edited December 1969

    I have the same problem. I'm finding 4.5 to be significantly less stable than RC3 or any previous version of DAZ Studio. Very simple scenes (one genesis figure, no high-resolution textures, only default lighting) render fine, but as soon as the complexity increases the likelihood of a crash increases dramatically.

    The previous Release Candidates didn't crash once while I was using them. Just yesterday 4.5 crashed five times, using a variety or render settings, models, light sets, etc.

    It does appear to be a memory issue. DAZ Studio tends to hover around 500-600Mb of ram for my usual usages, but this version hits about 1.2Gb of used RAM then explode.

    Right now, it's unusable. Can I roll back to RC3 again please? :)

  • kk2kk2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I haven't got a chance checking for RAM usage on 4.5, but if what several people is suggesting that it's a RAM problem is true, I seriously hope DAZ would "fix" it (if it is indeed a case of memory leak). If it's not fixable (cos 4.5 indeed requires that much RAM), well it sucks, considering I left Poser cos it eats RAM voraciously.

    I do notice some speed up on render time with 4.5, but given the choice between stability and speed, I'll choose stability any day.

  • jmoxjmox Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    I figured it made since to back up the program since it is a release canidate,and not a full version,and I had a power outage a few months ago during a render and i had a total system melt down.having to reinstall windows daz,and then rebuild my library,and runtime not fun

  • jmoxjmox Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    O.K I was unaware of the 4.5 pro long weekend at work i renderd 1 light 1 genesis 2 large props and a skydome no problem as a test

  • jmoxjmox Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    and I don't even have a fancy pc just an old dell

  • edited December 1969

    Same scene as I rendered last night with simple lighting (only 1 raytraced light, UBE2) doubled DS4 RAM usage from 1G to over 2G after adding a more complex indoor lighting scenario.

  • jmoxjmox Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    should use less lighting if possibe i used a point light distant light spot light i added all my own lights i tested it 3 or 4 times ,and rend4ered fine right now i'm doing an animation no render warings

  • BCManBCMan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've been getting this same problem with the 4.5 as well and I was just making simple spot renders with NO LIGHTS.

    I'm just glad I hadn't updated my 64bit Daz 4 yet so I don't have to deal with the 4.5's frustrating bug.

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited December 1969

    Glad it's not just me who is having problem with Daz 4.5 crashing during spot renders.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,354
    edited December 1969

    What are your machine specs, and are you using the 32 bit version?

    I have no problem with rendering, spot or otherwise in 4.5.0.114. What are your render settings, and do you have the Progressive Render box ticked?

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited August 2012

    I have a 32bit version and I'm using the default settings, the progressive render box is not ticked. Whenever I try to render Daz encounters an error, becomes unstable and then crashes. I'm wondering if it has something to do with what I was rendering. I will try something else and see if I get the same issues.

    error messages:
    Exception reason
    DAZStudio.exe caused ACCESS_VIOLATION in module "C:\Program Files\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4\dz3delight.dll" at 001B:5F9DA147, Dz3DelightDll::DSlo_DetailtoStr()+1472039 byte(s)
    Registers
    EAX=00000001 EBX=157DAD80 ECX=00000001 EDX=55E8FCF4
    ESI=157DAC40 EDI=574F7E90 FLG=00010202
    EBP=00000000 ESP=16CEF7D8 EIP=5F9DA147
    CS=001B DS=0023 SS=0023 ES=0023 FS=003B GS=0000

    Post edited by anikad on
  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    jmox said:
    should use less lighting if possibe i used a point light distant light spot light i added all my own lights i tested it 3 or 4 times ,and rend4ered fine right now i'm doing an animation no render warings

    It's by no means necessary to keep number of lights low. I successfully rendered an image with around 65 lights yesterday.

  • Sara16Sara16 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm using version 4.0.3.47 and usually can render without a hitch if the scenes have less figures in it for example;

    I've created a complex interior scene with just one Genesis figure (fully clothed of course lol) and 4 lights. Rendering size: 1920p x 1080p or 3840p x 2160p (both @ 16:9) , other settings; Shading Rate = .30 and Pixel Samples = 8

    Renders without a glitch....

    .... but when I add one or two more figures to the same scene DS4 will crash then close automatically.

    I tried to reduce the render settings (to default) but that did not resolve the issue.

    Above said; in my case it certainly appears that the more figures in the scene the likelihood it will crash during rending.

    I also notice whilst working with more than one or two Genesis figures in a complex scene DS4.0.3.47 will perform sluggishly.

    My PC specs are adequate enough although l only have a 2.gig ram and O/S; Windows XP.

    With all above said and after reading other topics I don't think 4.5 will resolve the issues I'm having. Now I'm trying to find a workaround without having to upgrade the O/S and add more ram.

    .

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,149
    edited December 1969

    ...I'm firmly convinced that 4/4.5 is pretty useless in 32 bit. I've tired to run 4.0.3.37 in XP32, and it just performing camera moves, not much less rendering, is excruciatingly slow, even with a toon character in a simple setting and just a couple lights.

    It appears the direction the media is heading, working in 32 bit is a lost cause due to the strict RAM limitation imposed. During the render process it isn't uncommon for the render file to bloat past the one's remaining available memory limit (after the load the application and scenes themselves take). A good example, in one scene I recently created which employed just a a few sections of Jack's Baroque Grandeur (not the entire set), the application and scene file alone take up a whopping 660,000 MB, leaving me with about 1.3G for rendering purposes. No matter what trick I used for memory conservation (switching to wireframe, rendering to a file, etc.) together, the application, scene and render file easily exceeded the 2GB limit and the application kept crashing to the desktop at about 40% complete. It isn't an overheating issue as I monitor temps via CPUID and they never exceed 55 (C). I also use a cooling pad, make sure the exhaust port isn't obstructed, and never render while online or performing other processes.

    As I am not running XP Pro, I am unable to take advantage of the "3GB switch" option or make use of virtual RAM.

    A good part of this most likely has to do with much of the newer content having larger and more detailed texture maps, a good thing for nice looking scenes, a bad thing for older systems. When loading a scene with something like any of Jack Tomalin's big sets (like The Library or Baroque Grandeur) or Souless Empathy's "The Bar" I immediately get a "High CPU use - Daz Studio" warning due to the rich detail these sets employ.

    Fortunately in about a week I will finally receive the case components I was shorted which will allow me to complete my 64 bit system and after doing a complete clean install and custom runtime setup, I should be able to put all this frustration behind and move on.

  • Sara16Sara16 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I came to that conclusion; more ram is definitely required for higher quality textures and complex scenes. No doubt I will have to update my OS and add a heck of a lot much more ram.

    Today I tested using less intensive textures since all my interior and exterior environments (textures) are my own creations and found that 512x512p saved as Jpg with high setting is a fair compromise; the results are really good considering and both DS and Bryce can handle these 20x multiple instances (textures) including reflective surfaces without a sweat; no sluggish behavior and renderings are fast and completed without a glitch.

    Bridge is not working for Genesis (crashing) so I exported three Genesis characters with standard skins, hair and clothing from DS with SCALING at; 4,8805% (according to Rashad's recommendation; see topic; http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3434/) it all looked pretty good but by the time I got up to 3 Genesis characters in my scene Bryce will render but crash when I try to save. Similar issue in DAZ Studio 4; it will not complete the render, then crash.

    Tonight I'm going to do another test; reduce the scaling of the exports and see how that goes.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,149
    edited December 1969

    ...unless your hardware is 64 bit compatible, upgrading the OS will be moot. I thought I could so so on my notebook but the chipsets and MB on it are strictly 32 bit. Oh, one can mess with the BIOS but that is something I would not recommend for anyone but the most experienced, as it is easy to kill an MB with one wrong instruction.

  • 2Fatbear2Fatbear Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I upgraded to 4.5 today and cant render anything with 3Delight. It always crashes at start of rendering.

    I have a i5 processor running Win7 32bits with 4GB RAM and Nvidia gtx 480.

    I had some issues with 4.0, eventually it crashed, so I installed 4.5 but now things are really worse, cant do anything.
    I'm monitoring RAM and there is no issue there. Also turned off Contents Management.

    No idea what else to test.

    I guess I'll try to return to 4.0.

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