question about male figures and pants

Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 11,047
edited December 1969 in The Commons

I have noticed for years something confusing about the male figure and pants. If the guy has his equipment he cannot wear pants at same time. The equipment pokes through the pants. In real life men can keep their equipment on and still wear pants or shorts but not in our 3d. Programs. Why is that?

Comments

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    There is a "package" morph for genesis, but I have no link. Clothes should conform to the morph.

    In carrara it is easy enough to tug some polies to make a package.

    The term is "toast" :D

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
    edited December 1969

    wao,,, I have not tryed yet,,usually I do not use mens figure,,(so I do not buy M5 yet,,)

    but It seems so important things about 3D figure.

    I believe they need to hide their equipments. they need pants and wear which can hide their
    weapon well !!

    if many items of daz can not cover them, it seems so strange for me , too.

    First, I can not believe why equipments of the figures are sold separately.
    (I do not have interesting mans equipments but,,,)

    we need category for "daz adult linenap!! " for art ! (in my case for hobby,,)

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,537
    edited July 2012

    I have noticed for years something confusing about the male figure and pants. If the guy has his equipment he cannot wear pants at same time. The equipment pokes through the pants. In real life men can keep their equipment on and still wear pants or shorts but not in our 3d. Programs. Why is that?


    IANA Content Creator, but it strikes me that there's a couple things going on here:


    1) Cloth mesh and 3D mesh are two very different things and behave in different ways -- real cloth either stretches or pushes back when it gets stressed, while 3D mesh simply breaks. Unless the cloth very old and worn or unusually thin, the real thing simply isn't strong or rigid enough (no, not even THEN) to cause real cloth to tear. (And if the cloth is that old and thin, unless you're wearing it for effect, someone -- one hopes -- will be courageous enough to say, "Um ... you realize we can see your ... your ... You Know, THAT. Through your pants. And there's a little tear, too. You might want to change before you expose your shortcomings to the entire world.")


    2) Real "equipment" and the 3D version, again, very different things. The real thing is more flexible and ... well, squishy. Dynamic, if you will. In other words, when cloth pushes back, the real thing can change its shape to (ideally) comfortably fit into the space -- within limits, and if you reach those limits, then you need another pair of pants or else you'll rupture something -- whereas the 3D version doesn't react to 3D cloth at all. Not even the new geografted wingwang.


    As something of an aside, some content creators also provide genital morphs for the characters that are very ... optimistic, let's say. Extremely optimistic. Excessively optimistic. So optimistic that on occasion, I've used the INJ file, and then laughed myself sick because ... no. Just ... no. Those would not fit into most pants in the real world. There are not that many Jonah Falcon-like men out there. (Look him up if you don't know, I ain't linkin'. But don't do it at work because it's probably going to be very NSFW. The man has some very unusual experiences with the TSA is all I'm saying.)


    One of the interesting things about dynamic kilts, and now conforming kilts and the like with the geografted dingus, is that the cloth actually does react to the "equipment", as it were, although that is a one-way street for now. For better or worse. You can get some very ... interesting profiles that way.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Some vendors include a "package" morph in the pants that they sell. All of my pants for Genesis come with this. ;)

  • MistyMistMistyMist Posts: 15,564
    edited December 1969

    soft body physics?

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,288
    edited December 1969

    soft body physics?

    Don't let Michael know you're thinking "soft body" about his toast.

  • MistyMistMistyMist Posts: 15,564
    edited December 1969

    soft body physics?

    Don't let Michael know you're thinking "soft body" about his toast.


    but,
    The real thing is more flexible and ... well, squishy.


  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited July 2012

    That's another reason for not fitting directly over separate conforming toast. Most gens are not as "tuckable" or malleable as real toast, so fitting pants over them would result in a weird misshapen lump that would interfere with rigging in the leg area.


    For some reason there's been a real dearth of add-ons to morph toasts realistically to fit under pants.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,537
    edited December 1969

    That's another reason for not fitting directly over separate conforming toast. Most gens are not as "tuckable" or malleable as real toast, so fitting pants over them would result in a weird misshapen lump that would interfere with rigging in the leg area.


    For some reason there's been a real dearth of add-ons to morph toasts realistically to fit under pants.


    Well ... unless the character is wearing something tight enough that you need to see the actual shape underneath clothes, either a general "package" morph in the clothes like you provide, or the "bulge" morphs for Genesis itself that come with the Evolutions morphs or the two "genital bulge" morphs that come with M5 would provide enough of a general shape for clothing. (If you need to see the actual twig-and-berries shape, so to speak, either it's wet swimwear or those pants are just too darn tight!)


    (For sheer anatomically improbable fun, I recommend using the Evolution bulge, plus both M5 bulges, plus -- if you have them -- the GhostOfMacbeth directional bulge morphs. You'll have a character whose dingus enters the room five minutes before the rest of him, plus you'll know what side he dresses on! But I digress.)


    I also think there might be, shall we say, a certain psychological resistance to half of the "One morph makes you Bigger and one morph makes you small" approach to that particular body part.

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,658
    edited December 1969

    mmm . . . :red: dynamics, I made the geometry invisible but. . . . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pdPVmBQgNQ

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,537
    edited December 1969

    mmm . . . :red: dynamics, I made the geometry invisible but. . . . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pdPVmBQgNQ

    Heh. Reminds me of the latest Cosmo Jarvis video about which he himself has said, "I thank you all for support and hope that you accept my most sincere apologies for not realizing my [TOAST] moved so much when I walked until after I saw this." He himself didn't say "toast", of course; he used a more hard-shelled seed/fruit metaphor, but you take his point. And yes, they really do move a lot. It's what happens when you wear loose tights, but given the outfit, his choice was to find tights so snug that you could see actual Detail, or loose enough that there was Movement. (Or loose tights plus underwear, but that option does not seem to have occurred.) Mind, I'm more curious as to why that particular song would inspire someone to make a video of a devil being beaten up by angels as he walks down a road with free-swinging toast, but whatever.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,933
    edited December 1969

    To avoid possible injury resulting from excessively convoluted euphemisms, let me assure you all that it is OK to say genitals or penis.

  • Jeanne MJeanne M Posts: 547
    edited July 2012

    To avoid possible injury resulting from excessively convoluted euphemisms, let me assure you all that it is OK to say genitals or penis.

    LOL Richard! I already was wondering why everyone was avoiding the right words for it.

    Besides, I thought this 3D world was more or less make belief so you can form the clothes as if there were genitals under it.
    Come to think of it, when I started in 3D I had no notice that you could do that untill I learned to make poke through bodyparts invisible and it only looked as if Victoria had well shaped breasts...... ;-P

    Love, Jeanne

    Post edited by Jeanne M on
  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 823
    edited December 1969

    There are clothes for male figures? :ohh:

    BTW Wendy I love that vid!

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,658
    edited December 1969

    if I can find the .dae file, I must one day do a HD version, that was done on my crappy laptop.
    yes invisible geometry is my solution for poke through but in THAT sim you get a hollow tube showing in the pants at one point!!!!
    I had a much worse one with stiff,, not flaccid toast I dared not upload to YouTube!!
    (erect penis in plain English!!!)

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    JeanneM said:
    To avoid possible injury resulting from excessively convoluted euphemisms, let me assure you all that it is OK to say genitals or penis.
    LOL Richard! I already was wondering why everyone was avoiding the right words for it.

    Besides, I thought this 3D world was more or less make belief so you can form the clothes as if there were genitals under it . . .

    Thanks Richard! But the euphemisms are so much fun . . . ;-P

    Last I heard the Genesis malegens (available in the M5Pro Bundle) and versions for the previous generations are not intended to be used under clothing because for various technical reasons (nicely detailed in a few posts above) it makes more sense to morph in a kendoll-style genital bulge that suggests the underlying shape, much like the the muscle shapes are sculpted into what's essentially an empty skin. Although I can see why this can make some people uncomfortable, it really is the best solution until the tech gets better.


    [Londo sputters outrage over a B5 Emporium "Londo Mollari" doll.]
    Londo Mollari: It's a mockery! It doesn't even have any, uh . . . attributes.
    Sheridan: Attributes?
    Londo: Do I have to spell it out for you?
    [Londo gestures downward. Ivanova and Sheridan stare at Londo, then at each other.]
    Sheridan, Ivanova: Ohh!
    Ivanova: I see. So you feel like you're being symbolically cast-- in a bad light.
    Sheridan: Well put.

    from WikiQuotes

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,575
    edited December 1969

    I would think with Genesis if the M4 or M5 set of genitals were conformed then the pants put on wouldn't they just auto conform over them?

  • Eustace ScrubbEustace Scrubb Posts: 1,395
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    I would think with Genesis if the M4 or M5 set of genitals were conformed then the pants put on wouldn't they just auto conform over them?

    Over the pants, you mean? Probably!:ohh:

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,537
    edited December 1969

    To avoid possible injury resulting from excessively convoluted euphemisms, let me assure you all that it is OK to say genitals or penis.


    Well, yes, but excessively convoluted euphemisms are way more fun!



    RAMWolff: I would think with Genesis if the M4 or M5 set of genitals were conformed then the pants put on wouldn’t they just auto conform over them?


    Well, the clothes do try to conform. But the pants aren't built to deal with the genital figure -- they don't have the morphs and structure built in -- so June comes bustin' out all over, so to speak. And even if the structure was built into the cloth, because the genital figure doesn't react to the cloth mesh, you'd wind up with the same situation that happens with Genesis clothing and the female figure's breasts, the whole Extreme Outline Shrinkwrap thing. And then someone would have to develop the Male Genital Clothing Modifier, which would have to take into account all the various changes and additions to the figure that various content providers might make. (I really really want to see the "M5 Implant Smooth" modifier, or the "M5 Large Smooth" one. Just because.) And then you're back where we are now, where it's just more effective to morph the underlying man Genesis figure and let the clothing react to that. (I think M4 has bulge morphs, but I'm actually not sure; it's been a while. I know his clothes can, anyway. Magnets and whatnot.)

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,658
    edited December 1969

    stick a sock in it!
    (Sphere primative flattened and made collision object as someone suggested)

  • edited December 1969

    Golly, you'd think that with all of the morphs and magnets available to change Vicki's chest size from mosquito bites to watermelons that there would be something to change Mike's package from Ken Doll to Tom of Finland. :gulp:

  • MistyMistMistyMist Posts: 15,564
    edited December 1969

    oh close. i was hoping for a sock puppet euphemism. and pudding.

  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 11,047
    edited December 1969

    To avoid possible injury resulting from excessively convoluted euphemisms, let me assure you all that it is OK to say genitals or penis.

    I am afraid of misspelling genitals. I think I once typed Gentiles instead of genitals.

    When I was young I once said penis when I meant pianist.

    Okay Micah has stopped playing with his penis since he got neutered.

  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 11,047
    edited December 1969

    I posted and killed the thread.


    the reason that the gens cannot be used under the clothes is that the technology in poser or DS is not to that point yet?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,933
    edited December 1969

    I posted and killed the thread.


    the reason that the gens cannot be used under the clothes is that the technology in poser or DS is not to that point yet?

    Yes, and also the general practice in all 3D is not to add stuff you don't need - most film models don't have anything under the clothes, beyond the absolute minimum needed for collision detection if the clothing is dynamic.

Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel