can Soft Body be used for Jiggle?

holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

I'm missing Sparrowhawke's Jiggle plugin. Can Bullit's soft body be used for similar effect?

Comments

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 432
    edited December 1969

    Maybe, if you use "Soft Body Attach" to keep what is "jiggling" in place. :)

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,609
    edited July 2012

    you can add jiggle to any used and unused bones in iClone btw!!
    there is a spring modifier script that comes with the horse avatar, just use your own bone names and save it as an spx file " all files" in notepad in unicode or the other one, (not text or html) if it does not work (bit of a funny thing in that does not apply straight away always) and import it in the spring modifier tab.
    may take a few loads, as I said a funny thing.
    I use Genesis's pectoral bones for jiggly bouncing boobies and make tails jiggle etc, there was a forum post on
    Reallusion on it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxw7O12Zk0
    in Carrara there might be a way using tracking and Fenric's erc thingy with a bouncing osscilator tweener for bones.
    (no idea, just talking out my butt!)
    or creating a morph target and using that with a tracking modifier.

    Post edited by JaguarElla on
  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,609
    edited December 1969

    Maybe, if you use "Soft Body Attach" to keep what is "jiggling" in place. :)

    like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR17ouNdXA0

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 432
    edited December 1969

    Maybe, if you use "Soft Body Attach" to keep what is "jiggling" in place. :)

    like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR17ouNdXA0

    Pretty much. (nice texturing btw)

    One can use forces or use an invisible kinetic object to start the "jiggle."

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited December 1969

    Hey, is this the same Holly who said she's packing up and leaving town?


    Okay, anyway, I'll give you my totally useless input, same as I've given before on this subject that people either don't care about or don't comprehend....


    Bullet is NOT a soft body simulator, it is a CLOTH simulator. The difference is this:


    Imagine an empty beach ball. Now replace the plastic with a spherical mesh of springs.


    Now imagine a balloon. Fill the balloon with some sort of liquid gel.


    How do those two things respond when you bounce and jiggle them? Differently, right? A lot differently.


    Bullet's simulator gives you the spring-mesh beach ball, and a soft body solution is the gel-filled balloon. Totally different results, and the spring mesh looks nothing like, say, a jiggling boobie or bouncing belly on a fat guy. But if you don't see, or care about, the difference in results, then you can probably use Bullet.


    But of course you ain't gonna be able to apply it to a part of a V4 (like the boobies). And it'll react like a spring cage. And keep in mind that right now Bullet cloth bodies don't collide with any moving objects, so the jiggly bits will just pass thru the rest of the body.

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 432
    edited December 1969

    Hey, is this the same Holly who said she's packing up and leaving town?

    Dude, that's not necessary.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited December 1969

    Dude, that's not necessary.


    Huh? Come on, Mr. Design Throck-robat, are you actually getting offended on her behalf, merely because I expressed some surprise at seeing her here, after this very bold and decisive, and apparently final, statement of just a couple days ago:


    "I’ll be deleting my Carrara website this week and cancelling my PC membership. I’ve had Carrara since before version 1.0—when it was Ray Dream. This is the end for me. If I’m stuck at C8.1 as the “defenders” here are suggesting, then there is no reason for me to participate in broken forums for a broken program."


    Wow, I wish people would get offended on my behalf like that.... :)

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Dude, that's not necessary.


    Huh? Come on, Mr. Design Throck-robat, are you actually getting offended on her behalf, merely because I expressed some surprise at seeing her here, after this very bold and decisive, and apparently final, statement of just a couple days ago:


    "I’ll be deleting my Carrara website this week and cancelling my PC membership.


    Thanks for quoting so I don't have to. Read it again please. One more time. Yep. That sure is what I said, and where did it say I would take my ball and go home *hair flip*, mayhaps it was your wishful thinking. I made a decision to stop paying for the PC thing which has changed,, and to delete my little tutorial site. I'm not recommending or promoting Carrara anymore or supporting DAZ with regular purchases, because this is a joke and I believe you agree. If you need me to explain anything else to you just speak up.


    Now what was your point again? Did you have something to add to this discussion?

    Post edited by holly wetcircuit on
  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Can we please stay on topic?

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 432
    edited December 1969

    Dude, that's not necessary.


    Huh? Come on, Mr. Design Throck-robat, are you actually getting offended on her behalf, merely because I expressed some surprise at seeing her here, after this very bold and decisive, and apparently final, statement of just a couple days ago:


    "I’ll be deleting my Carrara website this week and cancelling my PC membership. I’ve had Carrara since before version 1.0—when it was Ray Dream. This is the end for me. If I’m stuck at C8.1 as the “defenders” here are suggesting, then there is no reason for me to participate in broken forums for a broken program."


    Wow, I wish people would get offended on my behalf like that.... :)

    I don't know why DAZ doesn't ban you permanently. You cause nothing but grief on the forums.

    But, if they want to treat you with kid gloves, then it must be me.

    So, I'll head out on back to Lightwave where people are much more professional.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited December 1969

    ...where did it say I would take my ball and go home...


    Wow, no need to get so angry, I apologize if I misunderstood when you said "...no reason for me to participate in broken forums..."


    I had no idea it would cause such a stir, and again I apologize for misreading the impact of asking what I thought was a harmless question.


    Anyway, I hope what input I did provide was at least slightly helpful to someone who was following this.


    There aren't a lot of available solutions for real softbody simulations until you go into the more expensive applications, and even many of them don't have it. Mostly they do the spring-cage model, and insert a fixed internal force (like an internal pressure), but that doesn't simulate the bouncing pressure waves that travel thru the gooey center of a real softbody, and that really sell the illusion. I *think* the challenge is that you're going from a 2 dimensional surface (cloth) to simulating a 3 dimensional body, and the computations become far more intensive.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    On the old forum there was one, and only one person on my ignore list.

    Holly, I have tried several methods trying to get a soft body with the bullet physics. Doesn't even come close to sparrowhawks plug in.

    I think it's hilarious and tells you a lot that after market plugins for carrara work better then the features DAZ has put in lol

    And I agree Holly. In my opinion with the release of studio 4 DAZ has done a nose dive, DAZ isn't going down hill, DAZ jumped off a cliff and is now plummeting to it's inevitable end.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    IGNORE actually works in the new forum btw...

    I guess I can go back to C7 for Jiggle. It was a good system, and calculated pretty fast (it only simulated gravity, but it was enough since the mesh tears if you overdo it anyway, so subtle was better). Would be smart to hook it into 3D Paint, so you could just paint in the jiggle areas... Too bad that it's a "lost" feature in C8... A metaball object with built-in jiggle would be AWESOME!

    I'll try Wendy's idea for springs in iClone, but that's not really the bodyparts I wanted to play with... I think there is a Vicky with nipple bones, and someone had a Poser Python script a long time ago for chest-movage...

  • Frank__Frank__ Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    IGNORE actually works in the new forum btw...

    I guess I can go back to C7 for Jiggle. It was a good system, and calculated pretty fast (it only simulated gravity, but it was enough since the mesh tears if you overdo it anyway, so subtle was better). Would be smart to hook it into 3D Paint, so you could just paint in the jiggle areas... Too bad that it's a "lost" feature in C8... A metaball object with built-in jiggle would be AWESOME!

    I'll try Wendy's idea for springs in iClone, but that's not really the bodyparts I wanted to play with... I think there is a Vicky with nipple bones, and someone had a Poser Python script a long time ago for chest-movage...

    Stupid question (beware!): Sparrowhawkes plugins are available for C8. I know you're working on a Mac but I also remember you have access to a PC. Why not setup your animation on the Mac and go for the jiggle to the PC? (Stupid question, I warned you :) )

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited December 1969

    One generic approach that might work for some people, depending on what they're doing (I'm not sure what the OP is trying to do with this...) is something like this:


    Get a video camera (cellphone or whatever), and a balloon or equivalent, and fill it with water or some gel-type stuff. Then video it against a background as you jiggle it or poke it or whatever.


    Then import that footage into your favorite app and, using the footage in the background, generate frame by frame morphs using the actual footage as reference. If nothing else it's a good learning experience to watch how soft bodies actually jiggle and respond. And it could be fun too.


    Of course there are many ways to composite those results into your actual animation, or place that morphed object into your scene to replace the non-jiggly part with a jiggly part. But it all depends on what you're doing.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    It could be done in carrara if pressure actually worked; it doesn't I filed the bug report ages ago.
    I've done a lot of experiments with bullet and soft body in carrara, you could get the beach ball to ripple if pressure worked.

    A is no soft body, b is pressure 100, c is pressure 0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-POD9unXv0&list=UUdhRDgjpBQsflNDs3TBV6bQ&index=4&feature=plcp

    { I hate this cut rate, bargain basement forum}

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,025
    edited December 1969

    Hi Holly :)

    The simple answer is, no,.. since there's no ability to define an area which soft body should effect

    Right now, It's simply applied to the whole object.

    I did suggest this " feature " of being able to use grey-scale Maps, to define options like bounce / friction / mass, and to define soft-body areas, when bullet was first added to Carrara,. but right now bullet physics isn't working as it should be at this point.

    As ManStan points out, pressure does nothing right now,.

    The Genesis figure has "pectoral" bones, which can be animated to produce a bounce and sway motion.
    also, using an Oscillate tweener with some dampening, can give a bounce effect to that pectoral key-frame animation

    As Frank points out, the Jiggle plugin should work fine on C8 and 8.5, on PC,

    Hope it helps :)

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Frank__ said:

    I guess I can go back to C7 for Jiggle....

    Stupid question (beware!): Sparrowhawkes plugins are available for C8. I know you're working on a Mac but I also remember you have access to a PC. Why not setup your animation on the Mac and go for the jiggle to the PC? (Stupid question, I warned you :) )


    Ahh, I can probably handle that.... ;) Maybe hadn't been to his site in a while, but missed the C8 updates for whatever reason....


    The only bad about Jiggle is that the set up is a bit elaborate (like dynamic clothes, you need to start in a neutral or t-pose. My runtimes are on a mac-formatted hdd so that's another limit to switching back and forth... Still probably even better with 3DPaint... Worth testing. Glad this feature wasn't "lost" afterall.


    Too bad about soft body.... That was my original question... :/

    Post edited by holly wetcircuit on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited December 1969

    IGNORE actually works in the new forum btw....


    Just a little side note since someone brought it up...


    I'm a huge proponent of the forum's ignore feature. Honestly, I strongly recommend if somebody routinely makes posts that you find of no value, or that make you upset, or make you feel compelled to attack, please consider using the ignore on that person. It's not a bad thing, and I think it would help to calm the waters in the forum quite a bit.


    Anyway, back to the subject...


    I haven't tried Sparrowhawke's Jiggle plugin, but I'm wondering if anyone knows if he is still developing for Carrara? I think the big challenge comes when you have a jiggling mesh (like a big belly) underneath a Bullet cloth (like a shirt), and want them to interact. To me, there's really no solution until that gets addressed, which could be forever since Bullet cloth doesn't even collide with a moving mesh right now. Has anyone tried a combination of the Jiggle and Bullet cloth in that configuration, say with an earlier version?

  • Frank__Frank__ Posts: 236
    edited July 2012


    I think the big challenge comes when you have a jiggling mesh (like a big belly) underneath a Bullet cloth (like a shirt), and want them to interact.


    Why would some rational person do this?

    I have a way too big belly (and a fat ass, too), but there's nothing to jiggle, because I simply don't move so much. Problem solved. :)


    To me, there's really no solution until that gets addressed, which could be forever since Bullet cloth doesn't even collide with a moving mesh right now. Has anyone tried a combination of the Jiggle and Bullet cloth in that configuration, say with an earlier version?



    I followed the introduction and slowly moving development of Bullet in Carrara and there was nothing which made me think that it could be a dynamic cloth sim. I you take a look on the vids of Marvelous Designer where you can grap and move parts of garment while the cloth is simulating in real-time ... drop Bullet, get a licence of the Marvelous stuff.


    Because Carrara isn't there yet (and I don't have the feeling it will be there in any foreseen future), my work-around would be: Let sparrowhawkes plugin do the jiggle in Carrara, export with Fenric's plugin to mdd, Tailor your cloth in MD (it's not so difficult, if it's nothing fancy, and there are a lot of freebies around - otherwise: get a beginners book on sewing clothes and start your own design), run the simulation, adjust as you like, which is great fun, because all of this is happining (almost) in real time (on my crappy i5Core on a notebook). Export the mdd-simulation, import into Carrara, render. Problem solved, again. (It's way more complicated than my first solution, but it's redistributable. Which/what I'm not. Edit: If you want movement, of course.)



    Post edited by Frank__ on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,510
    edited July 2012

    Thanks. Yeah, Marvelous Designer is jaw droppingly insane. But it's been a while since I used it, and I'm trying to remember how you would export a DAZ character's animation into MD to use as a base for the MD cloth animation. Can you just convert your DAZ character to mdd and send it in, then bring the cloth sim back out when you're done?


    Not bad if that's the case. Though the back and forth stuff drives me nuts. Just a personal thing I have against sending stuff out to another app, doing stuff, then bringing it back. Argggh. Drives me bonkers.


    I would pay a billion dollars if Marvelous Designer would make a Carrara plugin. Maybe 2 billion. That would be nice.


    Maybe it's time to revisit that. I agree, Bullet ain't gonna be much for, IMO, at least a couple of years.

    EDIT: Hold on folks, turns out they actually have, in their Tutorial section, tutorials for DAZ Studio and Hexagon. Nice.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Frank__ said:

    I think the big challenge comes when you have a jiggling mesh (like a big belly) underneath a Bullet cloth (like a shirt), and want them to interact.

    Why would some rational person do this?


    I have a way too big belly (and a fat ass, too), but there's nothing to jiggle, because I simply don't move so much. Problem solved. :)


    :lol: Too funny.


    Marvelous Designer also has a Mac beta now... YAY! That Jiggle to MDD to Marvelous is maybe an ideal workflow, because it removes jiggle from the final render... As I recall jiggle didn't work in the rendernodes, so I was stuck with one computer anyway (the actual jiggle calcs worked fast and didn't add a lot to rendertime).... And you can get the jiggle just right before moving on to dynamic clothes.... Hmmmm. Okay loose boobies in a blouse might be more fun that I originally thought, especially if I can design the blouse too.... :coolcheese:

  • Frank__Frank__ Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    Can you just convert your DAZ character to mdd and send it in, then bring the cloth sim back out when you're done?


    I don't recall if I have actually done this, but it should work: http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/plugin.aspx. Bad thing is; if you have only the smallest version of MD you will need to buy a licence for the animation plugin (got it with discount, when it came out. I don't know if they have regular promotions; maybe when the Mac-version comes out )


    Though the back and forth stuff drives me nuts. Just a personal thing I have against sending stuff out to another app, doing stuff, then bringing it back. Argggh. Drives me bonkers.

    Wouldn't be so bad if it worked all the time ... but I would of course like to see a MD player in Carrara, something like the Optitex-plugin in Studio.

    Or the other way around: if Studio had MDD-import, one could go the route: Carrara-jiggle, Studio/Optitex-cloth-sim, render in Carrara. I wonder if the new DAZ format will do this (but I'm sceptical, because all the programmed jiggle had to be converted to morphs at export, the same way dynamic cloth in Studio is frozen to morphs).

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