Carrara v8.5.0.149 (PC/Mac) Beta Update

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Comments

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 1,716
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, Blaine!

  • Michael CMichael C Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    After that you will have to purchase the update, so what?
    You bought C8.1, nothong else.

    Yes, but 8.1 has bugs that have been fixed in the 8.5 betas but not released as an 8.1 update. I myself have reported at least three items in the bug tracker, had interchanges with the development team, and then found the bugs fixed in the beta. I do most of my work in 8.1 but there are some things, associated with these bugs, I can do only in 8.5.

  • Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 458
    edited December 1969

    I had just installed the 8.5 beta a couple of days ago. WHen it expired, was give then option to convert to 30 day trial.

    How do I now put that back to the beta?

    Do I have to uninstall when the trial expires in 30 days and then reinstall and put new serial number?
    Or is there a way to simply add that serial number to my current installation?

    Thanks.

  • DAZ_bfurnerDAZ_bfurner Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I had just installed the 8.5 beta a couple of days ago. WHen it expired, was give then option to convert to 30 day trial.

    How do I now put that back to the beta?

    Do I have to uninstall when the trial expires in 30 days and then reinstall and put new serial number?
    Or is there a way to simply add that serial number to my current installation?

    Thanks.

    To the left of the File menu, is the DAZ Icon. Just select the DAZ Icon > Register Carrara...
    Then you will be able to put in your SN.

    Hope this helps.

  • Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 458
    edited December 1969

    I had just installed the 8.5 beta a couple of days ago. WHen it expired, was give then option to convert to 30 day trial.

    How do I now put that back to the beta?

    Do I have to uninstall when the trial expires in 30 days and then reinstall and put new serial number?
    Or is there a way to simply add that serial number to my current installation?

    Thanks.

    To the left of the File menu, is the DAZ Icon. Just select the DAZ Icon > Register Carrara...
    Then you will be able to put in your SN.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks Blaine. Registered new serial without any problem.

  • Nigel RobinsonNigel Robinson Posts: 8
    edited December 1969

    I've updated the SN for Carrara 8.5 Beta.

    Thanks. Much appreciated.

  • jcrabbjcrabb Posts: 27
    edited December 1969

    Thank you =-)

  • edited July 2012

    Sorry everyone. I've updated the SN for Carrara 8.5 Beta.


    CDZCPRO-085-0000026-BLW-001-EBTOLPQ Expires August 31st, 2012

    a couple days late and a few dollars short

    see

    not just for carrara but Daz and site in general

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcMzuu70A8

    Post edited by m.mcisaac_5562cd4b93 on
  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,627
    edited December 1969

    oh stop being so dramatic!!
    and you could have at least rendered it in C8.1 instead of linking to a video!!!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,943
    edited December 1969

    Been building some animated scenes, populating wilderness areas with Carrara Plant-Primitive vegetation, building shaders, and experimenting some more with the most wonderful Ocean primitive, amongst other things, and haven't experienced anything new to add to the Bug Tracker. Animations have been rendering nicely (and quickly), tools and interface behaving very smooth and effortless, loading/saving/batch rendering are all as expected (or better) and I'm still in the belief that Carrara should become the most major focus for development at Daz3d.

    Bug # 0045405 still remains a nuisance to me. Would save me a LOT of time if that feature worked properly.

    In all honesty, I'd love to see Daz take Carrara as their premier package and make it their newest "Professional" version of Daz Studio or as a new "Daz 3d Suite" or some other name, and incorporate all of the DS Pro features into it. Instead of having a DS > Hexagon > DS bridge, it would be amazing if all duties such a bridge employs were all no longer necessary since Carrara could do it all. Especially the ability to add saveable morph targets as well as morphs onto purchased items (as you can via DS > Hex > DS). Having aniMate work directly within Carrara (with the addition of a powerfully configurable walk designer), dynamic cloth and hair simulation (perfected far more than current Carrara status) amongst other powerful DS Pro features would simply make Carrara (under its new Daz name) some of the best software on the market. Being able to 'save as' Daz Studio format and export to CR2, etc., would certainly make it fit the Daz reputation of excellence while bringing them more into the professional 3d modeling/animation software spotlight than ever before. Daz Pro 3d Tools would be a true contender on the market. From that, amazing point in time, Daz designers/developers would have a much better position towards keeping up with themselves (growth via Daz necessity) and the tends in the 3d field to stay in the upper ranks of the software hierarchy as well. Granted, such a perfect product would be worth more, so we would obviously have to cough out more dough for the end result, but such a thing would be well worth the purchase price. I know that I'd buy it! But then again, I love the way Carrara is now - so....

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    Bug # 0045405 still remains a nuisance to me. Would save me a LOT of time if that feature worked properly.


    Did you see in the bug tracker that the developer working on this problem is asking for an example scene file and steps to reproduce it?

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 237
    edited December 1969

    Given that this new beta SN runs unitl 31st August, I take it there will not be a proper release of 8.5 until at least mid to late september at the earliest.???


    Any idea, when, we can expect a completed 8.5??, this has been a VERY long development cycle for a point release.

    Now if you are effectively rebuilding the Carrara code base from the ground up and setting the platform for some amazing new developments in the Software, then that is great news and I applaud and understand the long development cycle...


    ....But if, after all this time, we are just waiting for Genesis support, a bit more Daz studio file integration, and some bug fixes then...well...thats not so great..


    Looking forward to the eventual Final 8.5


    SK.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,025
    edited December 1969

    HI swordkensia :)

    Any idea, when, we can expect a completed 8.5??

    The answer would have to be,.. when it's ready for release. :(

    this has been a VERY long development cycle for a point release.

    I Agree,.. but it's actually adding elements form a completely different software product (Daz Studio) as well as dealing with the Major bug fixes for Mac users. ..which were the biggest issue with C8.0 and 8.1.( IMO )

    Integrating Daz Studio and carrara had meant building a new Daz User format (DUF) and developing that new format to a point where it works equally in two different programs. ..not an easy task.

    Adding the DS content browser , DS auto-fit, and all the other "features" of Daz Studio which make Genesis possible, into Carrara, hasn't been simple either, and it means testing in two differently written software products at the same time, and it's not finished yet.

    so,.. it's not simply a point release with a few bug fixes.

    It's more of a first step integration,.. which should enable Carrara and Studio to have a more robust pipeline, and an easier work-flow between both packages, and that should also make any transition from free Studio users to purchased Carrara users easier. where any purchased content can be used in either, or both products

    Hope that makes sense :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Perhaps Dartenbeck could give an example of the problem he's having with NLA looping for us to test - working fine for me.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 237
    edited December 1969

    Hi 3dage,

    Thank you for your considered reply...


    I have actually started using Genesis in Studio 4 Pro, and rendering in Lux via Reality. and although I swore I would never use Studio, I applied myself to the program and now actually rather like it, Genesis naturally works brilliantly in it, but more than that V4 bends better in Studio, plus all the fix morphs etc work without having to jump through hoops.


    Studio 4 Pro has some great features, the smoothing modifier is just amazing...Carrara REALLY needs that.


    Now I have been a Carrara user for 7 years. I love the program and until 6 montha ago, wouldn't render or produce scenes in anyhting else but Carrara.


    But I will be frank with you. I find it it highly unlikely that many Studio users will go from from Studio to Carrara, a free software to a paid one, that doesn't make sense.


    Plus if you consider the plugins that are being developed for Studio, the gap between the two softwares is closing rapidly, Carrara looks more and more anomilous in the Daz setup.


    What I am saying is.. that to Survive I believe Carrara needs to be MORE than just a content management package, as there are other softwares that do that better, thats why I was hoping that this next release paves the way for more than just more content management.

    But we shall see..


    Peace,

    S.K.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,521
    edited July 2012

    I tend to share swordkensia's confusion about the D|S to Carrara connection...


    I'm not a D|S user, haven't been in a very long time, so I'm not up to speed on the relative merits of the two applications. But I'm having a hard time figuring out why people who use D|S would have a need to move to Carrara. Off the top the only thing I can think of is the cloth simulator that Carrara doesn't yet have. And maybe some of the built in content libraries (shaders, scenes, objects, etc.) that Carrara does have that I don't think D|S has. But does Carrara really have that much that D|S doesn't??


    But it seems like D|S also has a lot of features that Carrara doesn't have, which might make people go in the reverse direction (Carrara to D|S Pro). And since they are working now on integrating some of the D|S features into C8.5, it's pretty clear that Carrara is somewhat behind in those and other areas. And heck, they even developed a D|S Pro, which didn't exist before. Why would they need two "Pro" apps?


    Although a D|S to Carrara integration does seem to bode fairly well for Carrara's future, if indeed that's the purpose. I mean, why would they spend development time on integration if Carrara was going bye bye soon? Unless this new format is really more directed at being able to integrate DAZ content and applications with external applications like Blender, so that they'd open up that huge market to DAZ content. Which makes a lot more sense to me. Maybe integration with Carrara is just a by product of that effort.

    As a matter of fact, that's one thing that has baffled me...why doesn't DAZ at least assist in developing a file interchange format for its content and scenes with external apps? There's a lot of Blender users out there who would love it, not to mention all the other 3D apps out there. Although, I'm sure it's a lot easier said than done, and I'm guessing the rigging methodologies in the apps are very difficult to interchange.


    Anyway, my personal guess is Carrara doesn't have much longer to live. And when 8.5 comes out next year, I think most people are going to be very, very, underwhelmed. Cloth won't be in a usable state for another couple years I'm guessing, and there are just far to many features that it doesn't have that the competitors do. Heck, even Blender's getting to a point where it's blowing the shorts off most competitors, especially with some of the wizz-bang features that hobbyists love to play with so much (smoke, flames, physics, etc.). When the content bridge is made into Blender, and you can do scenes like you do in Carrara and D|S, I think the song is over for Carrara.


    Although the wildcard in that theory is whether Blender internals are written to be able to handle the huge poly count objects and scenes that Carrara and D|S can generate, and can handle very efficiently. If Blender bogs down with Carrara scenes, or freezes completely, then it's a different ballgame. But if that's not an issue, anybody who sells 3D software has to deal with the realization that there's a ton of free 3D software out there, and when it comes to free vs. paid, it's a real tough sell to get people to chose to pay. You have to be pretty serious about it, and willing to drop hundreds of $$, which people don't do on something they're only gonna play with for a few weeks and then move on.


    So, we'll see. But IMO, it's not looking good. Personally, my only interest in new Carrara releases are for the future cloth simulator that can be used with content. Other than that, there just ain't much reason to use Carrara. So like so much other software, I'll keep it updated, and keep checking its status, but it's of limited use until (and if) the cloth gets done.


    And BTW, I want to give a bit of a rant...


    Just saw an old (I think) interview with some DAZ guys, and one of them commented about how they chose to include Bullet in C8. They did it to satisfy their customers' desires, wasn't their first choice though.


    That really tweaked me.


    Why? Because customers don't know the ins and outs of integrating any external software with any DAZ software. All we know is we want physics, we want it now, and the quickest and cheapest way that we knew to get it was to grab an already developed and free module and plug it in. Did we know that it couldn't handle over 100k polygons or whatever? No. Did we know it wasn't the best choice? No.


    So pointing at your customers and saying we did it for you, wasn't our first choice, but we listened to you, is pretty poor sportsmanship if you ask me. I remember them asking, and I agreed, use the quick and easy free option. Because let's face it, Carrara was already 10 or 15 years behind the times in that regard, and it seemed crazy to start a 5+ year project to build a cloth sim from scratch. But what we didn't hear was "oh, but the way, are you sure, because it has such and such limitations?..."


    Anyway, we'll see what happens. But I have extremely low expectations, so at least it won't take much to make me pleasantly surprised.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • Akulla3DAkulla3D Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    Joe,

    Lots said in that last post. I just address one that you mentioned. Why would a DS user move to C. I was one of those DS users and found that DS was lacking in the ability to:

    1) Create your own content. (ex: Small items i would need for my scene but was not available anywhere)
    2) Much better lighting and render engine (IMO) -- plus at the time it had HDRI which DS didnt and I dont think it has still.
    3) Way better Shaders etc. Or at least better from my point of view.
    4) Able to use other content for example - Import as an OBJ and do skin it quickly.

    I dont know if this stuff is better now in DS as I had stopped using DS back around 2.0. I love Carrara as it is not a toy like DS is...

    Just my opinion.

    I hope Carrara has many iterations to follow.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 237
    edited December 1969

    Daz Studio 4 Pro is light years away from Daz 2.0 which as you say was exceptionally basic..


    But you are correct in that Carrara's render engine is good. far better than the 3delight effort that is offered in Studio, plus Carrara's shader system is excellent, hence why I Render in Lux when I use Studio, which is an exceptional renderer, but that option for Carrara users was unfortunately taken from us.. Infact, were Daz to go the other way and shoe horn Carrara's Renderer and Material system into Studio it would be good bye Carrara for definate.


    But that just re-afirms my point, the gap between the Latest Studio and the current Carrara is far smaller than ever it was. Even more so when you consider that Studio 4.5 will have instancing and Geometry shells...., so now landscape scenes with masses of plants will be possible in Studio.


    and damn, I cannot believe that I am actually 'bigging up' studio...but the reality must be acknowledged.


    and one final point if I may....how many people here would be so keen to pay for their point release of Carrara when Daz gives its other software away for free..

    I purchased Studio 4Pro, and then got stung when Daz decided to give it away...before that I would have GLADLY PAID ANY PRICE for a Carrara point release...now...welll I'm not so sure..

    I will probably wait for Carrara 9, should such a beast ever come.

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,627
    edited December 1969

    well I started off my 3D experience with iClone!
    now I find Carrara rigging imports into iClone I have gone full circle!
    Daz studio is just there because it is free!
    (and quite good for getting Daz and Poser models into iClone!!)
    they HAVE fixed the fbx import as well as export for most things in the beta!
    so integration for other software suites outside Daz studio is on the cards as achievable
    and
    I have gotten rigged animated Carrara figures into Blender! and other apps like Houdini and Unreal game engine, I mean stuff RIGGED in Carrara by me ( and 3Dage's cute Kreature figure as it looks better than my sad stuff), but the point being my stuff actually works too!
    so indi game development a real possibility as one can model, rig and export from Carrara, not my thing but there is a market out there!
    currently Max and Blender seem to be the main players, very pricey or free and confusing!!!

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 1,716
    edited December 1969

    Instancing would have been one of the big differences for me between DS and Carrara - I didn't know there were plans for that in DS 4.5, that will reduce the gap!

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,521
    edited July 2012

    akulla3D said:

    1) Create your own content. (ex: Small items i would need for my scene but was not available anywhere)


    Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that ridiculous modeller that Carrara has. And you're right, occasionally it's okay for making a quick prop or something to drop in your scene. But now that they gave away Hex, I think it's tough to consider the Carrara modeller as a selling point.


    akulla3D said:
    2) Much better lighting and render engine (IMO) -- plus at the time it had HDRI which DS didnt and I dont think it has still.


    That's true, I recall that the D|S rendering was also incredibly slow compared to Carrara. So actually, now that you mention it, that was one of the main reasons I moved to Carrara also. I couldn't stand the slow rendering in D|S.


    Now, in the scheme of things, I think we can all agree that the Carrara render engine is pretty sucky, though, compared to what's out there. Heck, even Blender's previous renderer, which everyone was complaining about, was much better than Carrara, IMO. Carrara's renders have always looked very dull compared to the bright, snappy renders you get elsewhere.


    And I know most hobbyists get all tingly and goose-bumpy at the mention of Octane and YafaRay and Lux and Unbiased Renderers that take 12 hours to render a frame and GI and all that fancy stuff, and I think that only exists for D|S as a plugin, while Carrara ain't got that goose-bumpy stuff. And of course when Blender can do content, game over. The new Cycles renderer has all that giggly stuff built right in.


    3) Way better Shaders etc. Or at least better from my point of view.


    Yeah, I gotta say that the built in shaders in Carrara are really pretty nice, if that's what you're talking about.


    4) Able to use other content for example - Import as an OBJ and do skin it quickly.


    Not sure what you're referring to here, but I recall D|S has a very nice plugin (free?) that allows you to quickly rig an obj, which Carrara doesn't have. I recall being pretty impressed with that.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • edited December 1969

    Having struggled with the poor documentation & tuitorials for Lightwave, Hash Animation Master, Cinema 4D, and Maya, I find Carrara to be the best program for "generally" learning CG within. The available tutorials (such as De La Flors' v5 handbook and Phil Wilkes' v8 DVD course from Infinite Skills) actually explain the CG universe in understandable English. Given that the modified-for-the-better Kai Krause interface is a plus, too, I would hate to see Carrara disappear.

    But maybe it is indeed time for DAZ to fold all of its software into one program. I would gladly pay a reasonable price.

    Furthermore, I am not unhappy with Daz support nor with their website. They've always managed to get back to me with a workable solution to my issues.

    And if Daz is in trouble, then we need to rally to their support. The fact that Carrara is the one program they are NOT giving away is, in my opinion, an indication that they place a higher value on it.

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,627
    edited July 2012

    all you need to do in Carrara to rig an object is line up an existing skeleton, an imported bvh motion for example or create your own
    go to animation
    attach skeleton and you are done.
    Daz studio needs vertex grouping and stuff that is well beyond my ability straight out the box.
    you obviously have shown utterly no interest in what I do to get rigged figures into iClone for example,
    as posted on various threads
    not that I blame you, rank noob amateur that I am
    and proffesional that you are
    but
    if you have overlooked this obvious tool in Carrara, you have totally missed out on what 3dage, Stu Sutcliff, Richardchaos for example and others are doing, who indeed use Hexagon and other software like Sculptris for modelling
    that is, rigging and animating in Carrara.

    Post edited by JaguarElla on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,521
    edited December 1969


    you obviously have shown utterly no interest in what I do to get rigged figures into iClone for example,
    as posted on various threads
    not that I blame you, rank noob amateur that I am
    and proffesional that you are


    Uh oh...


    Wendy little grumpy today? Huh?


    Relax Wendy. Maybe, just maybe, I know nothing about it because I don't do, or need to do, any of that. Not something I use. So if there's a nice way to do that, then that's good. 'K ?

  • namretteknamrettek Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The render engine and lights are SOOO much better in carrara. The terrain and surface replicators make carrara almost equal to Vue for doing landscapes (at least for stills).

    I tried out instances in DS4.5 they are fine, but without some sort of way to distribute them or any sort of terrain they are a pain to build scenes (at least compared to Carrara).

    If they got a new render engine for DS that would go a long way to making DS better,. I just bought Poser Pro during the last sale and Firefly is so much better and faster than DS. (reality is great but it takes ten hours to get a good render).

    I'm not sure why they cannot just pluck the best from Carrara, DS, and Hexagon and build one mean program that worrks without bugs

    Oh, and is free...

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 1,716
    edited December 1969

    I would add that hair in Carrara is better than anything currently in DS - not saying it's perfect, but much more realistic, and using proxies it is possible to get some good animations from it too.

    And thanks to Dave Gregory for giving my Carrara Training series from Infinite Skills a namecheck!

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    PhilW said:
    I would add that hair in Carrara is better than anything currently in DS - not saying it's perfect, but much more realistic, and using proxies it is possible to get some good animations from it too.


    And thanks to Dave Gregory for giving my Carrara Training series from Infinite Skills a namecheck!


    Unfortunately for Carrara, DS will have hair later this summer that will exceed Carrara's. LAMH is truly an impressive project. Dynamics are on the list as well.


    With Infinito + DS4.5 instancing, DS4.5 is rapidly approaching Carrara, and in some ways, already exceeds C's features.


    I'm hopeful that DAZ has some plans to move Carrara forward.


    Kendall

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,521
    edited December 1969

    Really? All that is going on with D|S ?


    Well, I think I just saw the fat lady waddling up to the stage...yup, now she's up on stage, and she just grabbed the microphone...

  • 3dView3dView Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Unfortunately for Carrara uses , Daz has never really known what to do with this application. It just does not fit for them . It is kind of this cool thing they own but yet somehow keep trying to make it like Daz Studio extra. While they keep trying to make Daz Studio better and better to replace? Carrara.

    It has become very obvious to me at this point that DAZ's -- focus is DAZ Studio, (besides selling content).

    Carrara is the cool application that does everything but capture DAZ's heart. I actually feel for the developers who work on Carrara knowing full well the lack of true support they get for Carrara. They are working as hard as they can but there are limits to what a couple guys can do.

    They have kept it running. Even given it a wash now and then. But its not kept in the garage anymore. That's for Daz Studio.

    It's a shame as its just such a great application ----------but you have to change the oil and rotate the tires now and then or else its just going to stop one day on the road and die.

    Post edited by 3dView on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Keep in mind that Alessandro's stuff (infinito -- http://www.daz3d.com/shop/infinito-1-0/ and LAMH) are 3rd party plugins.


    Infinito gives DS landscape generation and modification features that rival and slightly exceed Carrara's, and the ability to place props/figures on the ground in varying degrees of situations is way beyond what C currently has.


    LAMH is a hair generating plugin for DS which uses the Renderman RiCurves facility, or alternately generate an OBJ, to allow for hair/fur creation. While it will lack C's dynamics upon release, the creation and styling facilities are on par with Carrara. Alessandro has stated that Dynamic Hair is on the priority list for the following version.


    Carrars's Ocean and Physics still are features not available in DS, and Bullet integration is said to be on the way for DS but I don't know how far along that project is.


    Carrara's current shader facility is still a bit more flexible than DS "out-of-the-box" but the expansion of the Shader Facilities in DS to allow for full access to the Renderman RSL (Renderman Shader Language) either through the Shader Mixer GUI, or through the RSL Script Editor will offset that very soon. RSL is hard to compete with.


    I love Carrara and intend to buy the 8.5 upgrade when it is available, but I accept that Carrara's legacy code-base is a definite disadvantage. I'm personally hoping that Carrara will become the "High End" Content Creation and Animation Facility and let DS become the assembly and scene layout portion. With the DUF format allowing movement of inventory to/from both environments I fully see DS4 as an integral part of the Carrara Workflow. But that's just my Opinion.


    Kendall

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