why is the DAZ store so expensive?

2

Comments

  • galactica1981galactica1981 Posts: 752
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Not talking about new stuff, which everyone wants to have. But take a look at older things, especially clothes for Victoria 4. These are still way too expensive in my eyes. Why is that so? Most of the old V4 clothes are still in the 20 $ range - or more.

    Looking at other shops, I see that I can get similar clothes for V4 with the same (or even better) quality for less than 10 $. So why should I buy here? I think DAZ should be aware of that.

    What do you think?

    Are you a premium member? If so, you'll get access to special stores sales that will make the prices a lot more affordable. You should never have to pay over $20 for a clothing item. I've never done that and have never had to.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,613
    edited December 2013

    well some daz prices seems to be high but I think over all it is okay. Okay, must say in the meanwhile most clothes I have for v4.2 for example are created by 3D-Age at renderosity and they are less expensive and totally great and have a lot add ons on textures by other vendors (sure, some older ones must fixed manually to fit the v4.2 morphs the newer ones do it automatically) but over all I like the clothes because of looking and last but not least of the huge number of adjustment and deformer morphs additional to all, really all morph++ not only some. 3D-Age uses all morphs++ for the clothes. And the newer ones have really great and brilliant adjustments and deformer morphs. But that is just my opinion. Most M4 clothes are also from Renderosity but that is just a matter of taste, what you like to have for your character and who has it.

    If it comes to architecture and probs the DAZ Store rules with absolutely high quality products that are worth the money. Flipmode, First Bastion, Jack Tomalin, Stonemason, Predatron, ARTCollaborations NeilV 1, Nerd3D, TheAntFarm and a lot of more totally great artists (sorry for all that I have not named) and if you pay for the platinum club you get a lot of stuff for just a view dollars. So on architecture and probs DAZ is really great.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 1969

    ..I still purchase items from Rendo.

    I feel when it comes to vehicles and aircraft, Rendo has a much better selection of more authentic looking historic and contemporary vehicles and aircraft. The same goes for cyberfuture/post apocalyptic settings, props and clothing.

  • macleanmaclean Posts: 1,006
    edited December 1969

    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.

  • SorelSorel Posts: 495
    edited December 1969

    I have to say I think the prices here are fine. I have only ever had to return a few things, and those were usually because of my noobness of first starting daz and not knowing how anything worked, or I'd purchase something, use it, and realize I can do it myself and then return. Other than that I have been happy with all my other purchases.

    Renderosity has a few things I like, mostly some hairs, some props. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much V4 stuff for my liking, it's almost sickening, but that's just me.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,613
    edited December 1969

    Sorel said:
    I have to say I think the prices here are fine. I have only ever had to return a few things, and those were usually because of my noobness of first starting daz and not knowing how anything worked, or I'd purchase something, use it, and realize I can do it myself and then return. Other than that I have been happy with all my other purchases.

    Renderosity has a few things I like, mostly some hairs, some props. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much V4 stuff for my liking, it's almost sickening, but that's just me.

    well it is because I think rendo customers are mostly poser addicts and poser addicts like v4.2 more than genesis and all the new figures (I am a daz user but I also like v4.2 more than the other new figures)

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,082
    edited December 2013

    maclean said:
    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.


    That's my point precisley. Why is not DAZ this encouraging more to PAs? With DS Decimator its so easy to implement so the PA need do nothing more to products. Incedently 3d Universe btw does publish its fee - a multiple of standard license fist so at least they too are easy to use in games.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    maclean said:
    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.


    That's my point precisley. Why is not DAZ this encouraging more to PAs? With DS Decimator its so easy to implement so the PA need do nothing more to products. Incedently 3d Universe btw does publish its fee - a multiple of standard license fist so at least they too are easy to use in games.

    Why doesn't DAZ push PA's to offer gaming licenses, it's probably a liability issue. If a PA comes to the decision on their own, it's their decision. If DAZ pushes them and something goes south, you open a whole load of issues.

    3DUniverse offers the license on their own site. Nothing is offered through DAZ.

    There will also be those PA's who will not want to have to deal with things like gaming licenses. It would become another added administrative task added to what they already have to manage.

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,082
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    maclean said:
    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.


    That's my point precisley. Why is not DAZ this encouraging more to PAs? With DS Decimator its so easy to implement so the PA need do nothing more to products. Incedently 3d Universe btw does publish its fee - a multiple of standard license fist so at least they too are easy to use in games.

    Why doesn't DAZ push PA's to offer gaming licenses, it's probably a liability issue. If a PA comes to the decision on their own, it's their decision. If DAZ pushes them and something goes south, you open a whole load of issues.

    3DUniverse offers the license on their own site. Nothing is offered through DAZ.

    There will also be those PA's who will not want to have to deal with things like gaming licenses. It would become another added administrative task added to what they already have to manage.


    I am not suggesting arm twisting, or anything more than the store does to encourage PA's in general to make content. Regardless of the motivation, what / why would there be ,ore lability with users ability to publish indy 3d games and real-time rendered media. As long as original quality, discrete licensed assets and not able to be exposed using conventional means (ie not violating most 3d publishine TOS/EULA) , where is the additional risk? Its really the sames as a 2d render being published on the web, video or published in paper.

  • LycanthropeXLycanthropeX Posts: 2,199
    edited December 1969

    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

  • nobody1954nobody1954 Posts: 695
    edited December 1969

    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

    Or get good at making things. That's what I'm working on.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 2013

    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

    ...I'm trying, I'm trying.


    ...though I did take 2nd place in the October RRRR challenge.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • LycanthropeXLycanthropeX Posts: 2,199
    edited December 1969

    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

    Or get good at making things. That's what I'm working on.

    Thing 1 and Thing 2 ?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 1969

    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

    Or get good at making things. That's what I'm working on.


    ....well if Hexagon didn't have all the stability of an overloaded container ship in a north Atlantic storm or Blender didn't require an Enigma machine to decipher it's UI, I would.

  • nobody1954nobody1954 Posts: 695
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    people who complain about prices should do what i do. Get really good at your art so that you can just win everything, that way its free :)

    Or get good at making things. That's what I'm working on.


    ....well if Hexagon didn't have all the stability of an overloaded container ship in a north Atlantic storm or Blender didn't require an Enigma machine to decipher it's UI, I would.

    Agreed. There is a new version of Wings 3D out. Not as versatile as Blender, but a much simpler modeling interface.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 2013

    ...they have to get rid of that grey on grey scheme fist, as I have trouble with the lack of contrast.

    Plus, they need to stop updating it every week or so.


    If Daz spent one fifth of the time on Hexagon as they do on Studio, they could make it a rock solid application.

    What they basically need to do is

    Squash the remaining bugs.
    Bring it into the 64 bit world (which would also cure some of the ills related to memory issues)
    Improve the UV mapping tools

    Sculpting would also be a nice addition.

    It doesn't need rendering, rigging, animation, or surfacing tools as those are already available in Studio and Carrara.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ShaneWSmithShaneWSmith Posts: 517
    edited December 1969

    I have spent about $7000 at DAZ over the last three or so years. For that $7000, I've picked up about 3700 separate items, including Deviney's entire store, and most of Stonemason, Faveral, Jack Tomalin, and a number of the 'higher priced' artists. A lot of these items were picke dup during glitch sales, but most of them are straight up bargains (flash sales, periodic price reductions, stacking coupons, etc).

    If you know what you're doing here, the already-reasonable prices become flat-out brilliant.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,366
    edited December 1969

    As someone who's purchased items from a variety of sites, Daz remains the premier site in terms of value for money and quality for me. I've bought many items from rival stores and found that quality goes from one extreme to the next, with no real way of telling which items are good for the job. Previously I bought skin textures which are lacking everything but the diffuse maps, yet were marked up as 'prime content' and cost as much as a full figure would on the Daz store with full bump and specular maps included. That was on Renderosity, by the way.

    Now, before this turns into Store 'Wars', I should add in their defense that I have purchased some quality items from there too. However, because it can be a bit of a gamble in terms of the level of quality you get from any particular item, and because the overwhelming majority of content is for older gen 4 figures, I don't often buy items from other stores. So far no other store aside from PA's stores which have made the move to independence have matched the quality, variety and overall value of Daz. And yes, I include the RuntimeDNA store in that too.

    So while some items may seem expensive, you really need to compare like with like, and I can think of plenty of examples on other stores which are easily as expensive or more so than their Daz counterparts. Daz's Platinum Club is really just the icing on a giant delicious strawberry-filled cake.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 1969

    I have spent about $7000 at DAZ over the last three or so years. For that $7000, I've picked up about 3700 separate items, including Deviney's entire store, and most of Stonemason, Faveral, Jack Tomalin, and a number of the 'higher priced' artists. A lot of these items were picke dup during glitch sales, but most of them are straight up bargains (flash sales, periodic price reductions, stacking coupons, etc).

    If you know what you're doing here, the already-reasonable prices become flat-out brilliant.


    ...with the new setup one can only us a single coupon. You can combine a GC and a coupon but that is it. In the old days vouchers could be stacked with both coupons and GCs which is how I got a lot of my content and software, and why my buying has gone down dramatically since May of 2012.

    Never could hit one of the "glitch sales" as I was usually at work at the time..

  • HeraHera Posts: 886
    edited December 2013

    Speaking for myself I think it's a lot greater variety and quality here than in most stores. Renderosity fi is still focused on V4 - almost 90% of the new stuff there is V4, there's almost nothing for the G2 - I have yet to see a single rag for M6 there. + the props are generally better here, better materials and details. I mostly check Rsity for new DM products these days. And then there's the vehicles, the greenery etc here which are almost absent in other places (OK RDNA have had some great, free greenery now and then, but that's about it)

    Besides I preffer to pay a bit more for quality, I rather buy an Alfaseed outfit for $20 or a Stonemanson or DM prop than some unknown vendor costing half as much but ends up being a dissapointment of lo-res materials and very few details.

    Post edited by Hera on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,732
    edited December 1969

    ...I just wish there were more "plausable" looking aircraft available here. Yeah we have the Toon Private Plane, an old Biplane, a Private Jet, an Ultralight, a couple military helicopters, some hot air balloons and one steampunk themed zeppelin. however a lot of the offerings available require a stretch of the imagination for them to get off the ground.

    Also while there's an abundance of steampunk and futuristic sci fi content, there is little in the way of cyberpunk themed content.

  • HeraHera Posts: 886
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...I just wish there were more "plausable" looking aircraft available here. Yeah we have the Toon Private Plane, an old Biplane, a Private Jet, an Ultralight, a couple military helicopters, some hot air balloons and one steampunk themed zeppelin. however a lot of the offerings available require a stretch of the imagination for them to get off the ground.

    Also while there's an abundance of steampunk and futuristic sci fi content, there is little in the way of cyberpunk themed content.

    You've seen this site? http://colacola.se/ Lotsa planes, and most of them for free!

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    Herakleia said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...I just wish there were more "plausable" looking aircraft available here. Yeah we have the Toon Private Plane, an old Biplane, a Private Jet, an Ultralight, a couple military helicopters, some hot air balloons and one steampunk themed zeppelin. however a lot of the offerings available require a stretch of the imagination for them to get off the ground.

    Also while there's an abundance of steampunk and futuristic sci fi content, there is little in the way of cyberpunk themed content.

    You've seen this site? http://colacola.se/ Lotsa planes, and most of them for free!

    All of these models are for personal, noncommercial use. It's in very fine print on each download page.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 2,624
    edited December 1969

    maclean said:
    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.


    That's my point precisley. Why is not DAZ this encouraging more to PAs? With DS Decimator its so easy to implement so the PA need do nothing more to products. Incedently 3d Universe btw does publish its fee - a multiple of standard license fist so at least they too are easy to use in games.


    DAZ encourages PA's to do things that will help make them money.
    The gaming license deal is not a big seller.
    I have had my license set up for sale for a number of years now.....and I can count the number of sales I had on one hand (and still have fingers left over to scratch my a$$ :P )

    It seems that a majority of people who want to use these products in games prefer to use the rendered avatars. Which is cool too...alot less legal issues involved.

    Rawn

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,366
    edited December 1969

    RawArt said:
    DAZ encourages PA's to do things that will help make them money.
    The gaming license deal is not a big seller.
    I have had my license set up for sale for a number of years now.....and I can count the number of sales I had on one hand (and still have fingers left over to scratch my a$$ :P )

    It seems that a majority of people who want to use these products in games prefer to use the rendered avatars. Which is cool too...alot less legal issues involved.


    I'd like to think that most people involved in game development are more interested in creating their own game assets since not only will they have full legal control over the final content, but it allows them to more easily tailor the characters and environments to suit the game rather than vice versa. The majority of people who are have been verbally interested in the licenses over the time I've been on the forums have been indie developers, many of which are using Unity to create their projects.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited December 2013

    Herakleia said:
    ... Renderosity fi is still focused on V4 - almost 90% of the new stuff there is V4, there's almost nothing for the G2 - I have yet to see a single rag for M6 there. ...
    Has M6 been out for a month yet? Because that's roughly how long it takes to make an outfit, if I understand correctly. If a figure sculptor wants third-party support on release day, the figure needs to go to the third-party creators early. (That's what they did with Dawn. I don't recall any other figure from any company being sent to vendors not associated with the releasing company before release.)

    And V4 items can be used with V4 and Genesis "out of the box". Genesis items can't be used (easily) with V4. The market for V4 items is larger than the market for Genesis items; I can't blame the creators for going after the larger market.

    Post edited by robkelk on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,082
    edited December 2013

    RawArt said:
    maclean said:
    Also I NEVER GET a logical answer to this: - Why dont more PA's offer game publishing license options? I cant see any more risk or exposure to piriating so why after incurring product development costs, are they not maximizing the sales opportunities??

    I think it's because most PAs know nothing about gaming. I certainly don't, and I only found out by accident that I could arrange for a gaming license for my products. At the time of the gaming push by DAZ, I assumed they would deal with the licensing, but when that fell through, I just thought it was no longer an option.

    mac.


    That's my point precisley. Why is not DAZ this encouraging more to PAs? With DS Decimator its so easy to implement so the PA need do nothing more to products. Incedently 3d Universe btw does publish its fee - a multiple of standard license fist so at least they too are easy to use in games.


    DAZ encourages PA's to do things that will help make them money.
    The gaming license deal is not a big seller.
    I have had my license set up for sale for a number of years now.....and I can count the number of sales I had on one hand (and still have fingers left over to scratch my a$$ :P )

    It seems that a majority of people who want to use these products in games prefer to use the rendered avatars. Which is cool too...alot less legal issues involved.

    Rawn

    Rawn, because your figures are so darn well suited for "Hollywood" theme oriented games, events and holidays I purchased nearly all of them! That is the main reason I really like your catalog, however the flexibility in application that the augment game license provides greatly extends the usefulness and lifecycle of the products in my catalog.
    The demand for 3d publishing licenses will grow as technology like GooTechnologies, Babylon, KickJS, Unity and CopoperCube mature and become more consumer oriented. Certainly the appeal of quality ready to go 3d avatars for massive multiplayer and virtual social games is apparent - but not fully leveraged (?!)

    Folks - YOU ARE BUYING A LICENSE TO USE. What that license permits to the user is of far greater value than what features a particular item can accomplish in 3d, especially if its limited to 2d output. The terms of the license should be your main decision factor
    when buying content, over the oohs and ahhs oth the latest surfacing enhancement.

    The way I see it purchasing a 2D render only license is highly limiting and really not enough value to procure with cash based on want "potential" rather than necessity to get a job done efficiently or better. Meaning if I need a item for a specific 2d only render, I may purchase it on demand it the perfect solution is available. However 95% of my monthly content purchases at DAZ are based on want, supporting the desire to build my library with the most flexible (adaptable) content assets - in advance of need to trigger inspiration and reduce creative barriers. So I buy 3d publishable content, mostly. I may pay more but I get far more usability in return Since I am developing more and more 3d real-time rendered publication, it only makes sense to invest in asset with this capability. Also by only focusing on 3d licensee content, its far easier for me to determine specific content item license terms in my catalog. For this reason I pass on most freebies that have restrictive or indeterminate licenses.

    Finally, upgrade of license publishing terms to 3d breathes new live into older products which are often better suited for game engine preparation and application and would extend content product life-cycles and open additional opportunities and avenues for further development.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,082
    edited December 2013

    RawArt said:
    DAZ encourages PA's to do things that will help make them money.
    The gaming license deal is not a big seller.
    I have had my license set up for sale for a number of years now.....and I can count the number of sales I had on one hand (and still have fingers left over to scratch my a$$ :P )

    It seems that a majority of people who want to use these products in games prefer to use the rendered avatars. Which is cool too...alot less legal issues involved.


    I'd like to think that most people involved in game development are more interested in creating their own game assets since not only will they have full legal control over the final content, but it allows them to more easily tailor the characters and environments to suit the game rather than vice versa. The majority of people who are have been verbally interested in the licenses over the time I've been on the forums have been indie developers, many of which are using Unity to create their projects.

    Sure, and some like me do model our own. "Jorge Hog in Volcano Rescue" is 100% modeled by me, but I also found that can stifle game development. Now I use the most efficient and best method to accomplish a project. That often means relying of licensed assets and technologies like I did in "Repstar's Paparazzi Shake" that features V6 and TREX figures. While I could build it all - limiting this way can sniffle creativity and reduce momentum. Some developers model better, some program game logic better - successful project often require a compromise in this respect.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,959
    edited December 2013

    robkelk said:
    Herakleia said:
    ... Renderosity fi is still focused on V4 - almost 90% of the new stuff there is V4, there's almost nothing for the G2 - I have yet to see a single rag for M6 there. ...
    Has M6 been out for a month yet? Because that's roughly how long it takes to make an outfit, if I understand correctly. If a figure sculptor wants third-party support on release day, the figure needs to go to the third-party creators early. (That's what they did with Dawn. I don't recall any other figure from any company being sent to vendors not associated with the releasing company before release.)

    And V4 items can be used with V4 and Genesis "out of the box". Genesis items can't be used (easily) with V4. The market for V4 items is larger than the market for Genesis items; I can't blame the creators for going after the larger market.

    There are two items for G2M on rendo: Karth made a shirt and DarioFish updated his cybernetic items from Genesis to both male and female Genesis 2.

    Also the pre-release Dawn was released to vendors on Rendo for their release, M6 wasn't because they aren't DAZ PAs there, so I wouldn't expect anything to be there day one unless someone broke their NDA agreement with DAZ... and they don't want that.

    Also, vendor should know their market. An M6 item will sell more at DAZ than it will at Rendo, because people look here first for Genesis items and it will quickly get buried under other items there. If you're selling a V4 item, you may be better off selling at rendo because these days, that's the first place people will look.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    robkelk said:
    Herakleia said:
    ... Renderosity fi is still focused on V4 - almost 90% of the new stuff there is V4, there's almost nothing for the G2 - I have yet to see a single rag for M6 there. ...
    Has M6 been out for a month yet? Because that's roughly how long it takes to make an outfit, if I understand correctly. If a figure sculptor wants third-party support on release day, the figure needs to go to the third-party creators early. (That's what they did with Dawn. I don't recall any other figure from any company being sent to vendors not associated with the releasing company before release.)

    And V4 items can be used with V4 and Genesis "out of the box". Genesis items can't be used (easily) with V4. The market for V4 items is larger than the market for Genesis items; I can't blame the creators for going after the larger market.

    I sell smaller pieces at Rendo. I've been less motivated to do that with G2 than Genesis for a couple of reasons. One, most things I could sell there will sell better at DAZ (I was not yet a PA when Genesis came out); and two, they are vastly less likely to promote male stuff. Fuse and I have put our heart and soul into big male outfits there only to see them hit the market with a thud. That doesn't happen to us here. We're working on the expansion to a huge wizard set that is already complete, and you better believe we're going to sell it at DAZ.

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