Basic Rigging Question

Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 143
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Don't know much about character rigging (as will quickly become obvious), but I have a question. For the auto-rig feature in DS4 to work, does the figure you are trying to auto-rig have to have the bones, or does the auto rig function superimpose the generic Genesis rig on any imported humanoid shape and give you a "basic" rig to work from?

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    Which auto rig? AutoFit (needs a legacy, Poser-style, figure), Transfer Utility (needs an OBJ or a TriAx figure)mor something else? If you are wanting to create a new base figure you aren't allowed to use another figure's rigging as a starting point (if it isn't solely for your own use) - you would need to set the figure up in Figure Setup instead.

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,689
    edited December 1969

    I do not know how to do it FYI
    just suggesting as I had a simillar question with Carrara rigging once (I bone my own now!!)
    but
    I think you could use the bones of a redistributable figure like the Zygote female rigged by DADchamp on sharecg if you read the creative commons license included
    don't think you could sell it though, just give it away with said creative commons license included.

  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 143
    edited July 2012

    My question was related to using a 3D humanoid figure obj export from any 3D program purely for educational purposes and not for redistribution or sales. Would the figure have to have bones to use auto-rig, or does auto rig superimpose a generic humanoid rig onto the figure (or does it not work like this at all and I am totally off the mark)?

    Post edited by Fragg1960 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    You still haven't said which "auto-rig" you are talking about.

  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 143
    edited December 1969

    You still haven't said which "auto-rig" you are talking about.

    The point is to bring in a 3d model without any rig or bones and rig it so it can be posed (so whichever rigging option does that is what I'm after). So my question then would be do any of the several auto-rig utilities mentioned help me to automate a basic rig on a figure, and how automated are any/all of the auto rig functions? I have no idea which auto rig tool would be best suited for this--that's why I'm asking.

    I'm not looking for a tutorial, just a feel for the automation/ease of use of the DS4 features and whether it's something with a steep learning curve or if any of the auto tools in DS4 make this process easier since I'm not familiar with any of them.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    OK, I thought there was something called AutoRig that you were asking about. AutoFit is for converting clothing made for a specific older figure (mainly one of the DAZ third and fourth generation figures, in some cases via an extra data file) to Genesis; the Transfer Utility is for projecting the weights and joint centres from one figure to another (mainly for making clothing and hair to fit Genesis). Neither would help with an arbitrary figure as the limbs would not, presumably, coincide with a donor. Figure Setup will allow you to bring in an OBJ and attach a skeleton to it - if the OBJ is grouped it will generate a bone for each group, and when the figure is created the bones will be drawn to fit the bounding box of the group along the twist axis (so if the forearm bone is set to rotate xzy, the bone will be drawn along the length of the mesh group in the x direction); however, in most cases you would need to adjust the centres and alignments of the bones and you would need to create weight maps.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    OK, I thought there was something called AutoRig that you were asking about. AutoFit is for converting clothing made for a specific older figure (mainly one of the DAZ third and fourth generation figures, in some cases via an extra data file) to Genesis; the Transfer Utility is for projecting the weights and joint centres from one figure to another (mainly for making clothing and hair to fit Genesis). Neither would help with an arbitrary figure as the limbs would not, presumably, coincide with a donor. Figure Setup will allow you to bring in an OBJ and attach a skeleton to it - if the OBJ is grouped it will generate a bone for each group, and when the figure is created the bones will be drawn to fit the bounding box of the group along the twist axis (so if the forearm bone is set to rotate xzy, the bone will be drawn along the length of the mesh group in the x direction); however, in most cases you would need to adjust the centres and alignments of the bones and you would need to create weight maps.
    There is the option in the scene\edit\convert to weightmapping, but I believe that requires a figure to already be rigged. If wanting to learn how to rig a model with no rigging I would suggest Blondies tutorial in the store here.

  • blondie9999blondie9999 Posts: 726
    edited December 1969

    Fragg1960 said:
    You still haven't said which "auto-rig" you are talking about.

    The point is to bring in a 3d model without any rig or bones and rig it so it can be posed (so whichever rigging option does that is what I'm after). So my question then would be do any of the several auto-rig utilities mentioned help me to automate a basic rig on a figure, and how automated are any/all of the auto rig functions? I have no idea which auto rig tool would be best suited for this--that's why I'm asking.

    I'm not looking for a tutorial, just a feel for the automation/ease of use of the DS4 features and whether it's something with a steep learning curve or if any of the auto tools in DS4 make this process easier since I'm not familiar with any of them.

    Okay, you're talking about rigging an original figure. There is no "auto-rig" for that, as there is for, say, transferring the rigging of Genesis to a clothing item.


    Nor is rigging an original figure a "simple" or "one-click" process. That's why I wrote a tutorial about it. The "learning curve" isn't that "steep," but there are a number of things you need to know and tools you need to use, and if you don't know what those are or how to use them, you're totally lost-- just as I was.


    My rigging tutorial is available here: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro/

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,689
    edited July 2012

    lol! one of the reasons I have thus far refrained from learning how to rig figures and conform clothing in studio is it is so easy in Carrara and I only use studio for anything if forced by threats of hot coals inserted in my nostrils %-P
    You can take ANY BVH skeleton, Daz figure, or your own set of drag and dropped bones put into a hierarchy and select any object and it and attach skeleton and weight paint, conforming clothes and hair is as simple as lining it up moving vertices with softselect choosing the figure's hip and the model and attaching the skeleton.
    no grouping needed!
    Carrara rigged mesh only works in Carrara though (and iClone, Unity, Houdini, Unreal game engine to name a few I tried that import FBX) but NOT Daz studio or Poser!!!
    makes you just wanna try the C8.5 beta does it not?
    go on ;-P.
    Carrara is chocka with other goodies too like dynamic hair, bullet physics, replicators, trees that blow in the wind, terrain generation, vertex, spline and metaball modeling rooms . . . . . . . etc!
    if you do not like it when the trial time is up no-one will force you to buy it!!

    Post edited by JaguarElla on
  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 143
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for all the replies. Now I have a somewhat better grasp of the subject.

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 268
    edited December 1969

    Fragg1960 said:
    You still haven't said which "auto-rig" you are talking about.

    The point is to bring in a 3d model without any rig or bones and rig it so it can be posed (so whichever rigging option does that is what I'm after). So my question then would be do any of the several auto-rig utilities mentioned help me to automate a basic rig on a figure, and how automated are any/all of the auto rig functions? I have no idea which auto rig tool would be best suited for this--that's why I'm asking.

    I'm not looking for a tutorial, just a feel for the automation/ease of use of the DS4 features and whether it's something with a steep learning curve or if any of the auto tools in DS4 make this process easier since I'm not familiar with any of them.

    Okay, you're talking about rigging an original figure. There is no "auto-rig" for that, as there is for, say, transferring the rigging of Genesis to a clothing item.


    Nor is rigging an original figure a "simple" or "one-click" process. That's why I wrote a tutorial about it. The "learning curve" isn't that "steep," but there are a number of things you need to know and tools you need to use, and if you don't know what those are or how to use them, you're totally lost-- just as I was.


    My rigging tutorial is available here: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro/

    With your tutor, I can learn to rig clothing I made to the Kids 4 figure. Correct? Sorry, still very lost on what exactly rigging is.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    No, the Kids 4 are old-style Poser figures. Blondie's tutorial covers weight-mapped rigging in DS4.

    Rigging is taking a static model and making ti posable, but making it work as a conformer (clothing for another figure) is actually a slightly limited subset of rigging as you don't have to worry about locating the centre points of the bones, just controlling the way they affect the surrounding mesh. For legacy Poser rigging like the Kids 4 I think the best source is probably currently Lady Littlefox's tutorials at RDNA - they have versions for Poser and DAZ Studio in the rigging section, though since she mainly uses DS3 you might want Blondie's tutorials to help you find your way around the slightly different tools in DS4.

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 268
    edited December 1969

    No, the Kids 4 are old-style Poser figures. Blondie's tutorial covers weight-mapped rigging in DS4.

    Rigging is taking a static model and making ti posable, but making it work as a conformer (clothing for another figure) is actually a slightly limited subset of rigging as you don't have to worry about locating the centre points of the bones, just controlling the way they affect the surrounding mesh. For legacy Poser rigging like the Kids 4 I think the best source is probably currently Lady Littlefox's tutorials at RDNA - they have versions for Poser and DAZ Studio in the rigging section, though since she mainly uses DS3 you might want Blondie's tutorials to help you find your way around the slightly different tools in DS4.

    Thanks.

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