How can Zbrush be used with Daz?

Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
edited December 1969 in The Commons

I've seen some things that are making me very, very very eager to get Zbrush; I've never been good at CREATING things, however, hence why I use Daz. However, I've seen that Zbrush can do a few nifty tricks with Daz...I saw a video where a shirt, exported from Daz to Zbrush, being manipulated so that it was open and even blowing in the wind slightly. I also saw someone resolving poke through, and making the clothing fit perfectly to V4.

That's -exactly- what I need. Something to give me more freedom than completely depending on the morphs and such the merchants give. Would I be able to achieve the following things with Zbrush?

*If I wanted to make a scene with a girl brushing her hair, would Zbrush be able to make the hair look like its being brushed? As in, could I pull up the strands towards the brush? I know this is something I could achieve with wind morphs or such, but personally, I'd like a bit more control and a good deal more realism in it.

*If I had someone lying on the floor, could I make both the hair and clothes more realistically splay out and interact with the ground? Again, this is something wind morphs could take care of, but I'd like far more control in that area.

*Or a scene with someone squeezing an orange, like...http://mavrosh.deviantart.com/art/Orange-354455812 ~ (Check out her gallery, she's INCREDIBLY talent and all her renders are smoking!)

So yes, generally it's effects like these I'm after! Also, could anyone post tutorials they'd reccomend for use of Zbrush with Daz?

This is something I really badly want to master, so any help would be so appreciated!

Comments

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited October 2013

    Ashfire45 said:

    *If I wanted to make a scene with a girl brushing her hair, would Zbrush be able to make the hair look like its being brushed? As in, could I pull up the strands towards the brush? I know this is something I could achieve with wind morphs or such, but personally, I'd like a bit more control and a good deal more realism in it.
    Unless you want to create and export fibermesh hair from ZBrush, it hightly depends on hair you use. If hair is modelled in big chunks it would be harder to separate them believably than if hair is modelled in smaller strands. But you can, definitely, pull strands closer to brush regardless of how it is modelled. Move/Move Topology/Nudge brushes are your friends.

    *If I had someone lying on the floor, could I make both the hair and clothes more realistically splay out and interact with the ground? Again, this is something wind morphs could take care of, but I'd like far more control in that area.
    Depends on clothes and also complexity of the scene, but generally yes, you can add at least some degree of gravity appearance. Depending of the scene you might need to switch between Draw and Move/Rotate modes for bigger-scale gravity effects.

    *Or a scene with someone squeezing an orange, like...http://mavrosh.deviantart.com/art/Orange-354455812 ~


    Yes, absolutely. But you'd have to get juice modeled separately, because 3D oranges don't usually come with it.

    This is something I really badly want to master, so any help would be so appreciated!


    Personally I use ZBrush with DS for a very long time and now, when there is GoZ bridge from ZBrush to DS and back, it became much easier to use. Any kind of morph except of very precise morph like in eyes, is much easier to do in ZBrush than in, say, Cinema. It takes some time to learn routes and quirks but I'd say it definitely worth it. If you have doubts, use a trial version of ZBrush to see if the interface ok with you.

    As for tutorials, I recommend Mec4D videos. They maybe not 100% for beginners but they give a good scope of what can be achieved quite easily
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6n9Z6c3RG0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zPF159sPGY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI-a9XiXBNM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTEhFyK7Qdc

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the videos! I've actually watched two or three of them before, and they're what inspired me to check out Zbrush; I'm so very excited for the possibilities and what can be offered! I feel like my Daz work is going to become a lot more unlimited now. =) Can I ask for some examples of what you've used Zbrush/Daz for in your time, or what you generally use Zbrush for?

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited October 2013

    Ashfire45 said:
    Thank you for the videos! I've actually watched two or three of them before, and they're what inspired me to check out Zbrush; I'm so very excited for the possibilities and what can be offered! I feel like my Daz work is going to become a lot more unlimited now. =) Can I ask for some examples of what you've used Zbrush/Daz for in your time, or what you generally use Zbrush for?

    Sure. The very very first things I ever did with ZBrush years and years ago were a morphpack for Aiko3 and Hiro3 and adding morphs (38 of them) to a piece of clothes I made.
    I keep using ZBrush mostly for the same things, although more complex - adding morphs, fixing autofit things and clingy breasts on female models, etc. I use ZBrush for my characters as well but I don't have anything recently amazing to show due to reasons unrelated to ZBrush. For modelling I prefer to make a base in modeller like Cinema or Hexagon and work it in ZBrush on latter stages. Also I'm able to create my own clones for many figures I don't have official clones for. Another thing I'm finding useful is ZBrush capability to to separate a full morph into parts like here.
    ZBrush is capable for more - people are able to make full model in it, UVs, textures and everything, - but I'm mostly model/morph person.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Well, you're quite clearly a pro on the subject, so thank you for taking the time to answer such...noob questions. Something that's really perked my attention is the fact you've used Zbrush to create your own clothes! They look gorgeous, by the way - do you also texture and rig them in Zbrush? Also, can objects exported from Daz be retextured in Zbrush, or is that something that should be left to another method? Also, for modelling clothes, is it something you can learn, or something that you need to have a natural 'knack' for, if you know what I mean? You're a modeller, so I'd say you have a bit of natural talent for the creation of these things...

    You really do have me giddy, though! At first, I think I'll just use it for making clothes fit onto my Daz gals perfectly, and try the few examples above...But hopefully, my skill will grow with it!

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited October 2013

    They look gorgeous, by the way - do you also texture and rig them in Zbrush?

    ZBrush _can_ both UVmap and texture objects, but I'm used to other programs for that purpose, UVLayout and Photoshop. Sorry to disappoint.
    Maybe if you start doing those things in ZBrush from the very beginning, you don't need additional programs, but I used Photoshop long before ZBrush, so I'm stuck with it ;)

    As for rigging, - while you can "rig" models in ZBrush (although it isn't same as bone skeleton/weightmaps and "rig" in ZBrush is a vague structure at best), to use those models in DS as posables/animatable models you have to rig them in DS, and to use your models in Poser you'd have to rig them in Poser. ZBrush "rigging" will only give you static objects in DS - posed, maybe, morphed, sure, but otherwise static. Rigging is a very peculiar system, usually firmly tied to a program - Cinema4D rigging only usable in Cinema4D, etc etc. There are exceptions, of course, like older Poser rigging that is useable in DS as well, or newer Carrara ability to use Genesis TriAx rigging, or Collada exports that works sometimes on other programs, but generally speaking if I rig the model in one program, the rig is only usable in that particular program.

    To add: ZBrush has lighting system, so you can model, texture, "rig", add hair, pose, add materials and render your scenes _entirely_ in ZBrush, from zero up to full picture. It will take (significantly) more work than using ready-made content like DAZ3D sells, but it will probably add you a lot more of skills as well. You can also combine ready-made content or your own creations from other modellers like Hexagon with ZBrush, and do some other combinations of that and this, - it mostly depends if you use ZBrush as main or support (as I do) application. What I'm saying that ZBrush is a very capable program and I don't know even 50% of its full capabilities, only those that are used with DS.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    While the ability to do it all in Zbrush is amazing, I'd much rather stuck with Reality in Luxrender! It's like you and Photoshop; rather than change the way I work all together and migrate to Zbrush, I'd simply like to use Zbrush to add to my Reality renders, as you can understand, I'm sure! Zbrush seems extensive, and it's likely going to take me years to find out all I can do with it...Or...To even get comfortable with it. *Snort* Anyway, I'm downloading the trial as we speak; wish me luck!

  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    OH! I forgot to ask! Is it possible at all to use Zbrush to fit Genesis clothes to Victoria 4?

  • EleleElele Posts: 938
    edited December 1969

    Just a word of caution: While Zbrush is pretty much build to do the kind of stuff you want to do, IMO the things you are looking to do are much more difficult than just creating clothing (depending on the level of quality you want). In the end Zbrush is still basically just a modeller (a damn fine one with additional nifty features), and you will need to model what you want.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited October 2013

    Ashfire45 said:
    OH! I forgot to ask! Is it possible at all to use Zbrush to fit Genesis clothes to Victoria 4?

    Well, it is possible to "fit" them, i.e. adjust shape of Genesis clothes so they will fit Victoria 4 shape, certainly, but to make Genesis clothes fully usable for V4 for morphs and poses you will have to do a full refit - i.e. rerig Genesis clothes to Victoria 4 so refitted clothes will follow Victoria 4 rigging. With Victoria 4 rigging it is much more troublesome process than to fit V4 clothes to Genesis, because V4 rigging uses grouping system (unlike Genesis, who has unified skin) where you have to specify body groups in clothes to match ones in V4 skeleton. As V4 isn't weightmapped, you won't be able to use autofit and transfer utility (two best tools of DS 4.5) and you'd have to add morphs into clothes for all V4 shapes you intend to use (like Pear, Fantasia, etc) because I'm not sure if DS 4.5 kept morph follower (prototype for autofit) for Generation 4 figures
    To summarize: It is more time-consuming but certainly possible to fully refit Genesis clothes to Victoria 4.

    But! If you only need to fit Genesis clothes to a particular shape and static pose of Victoria 4, then yes, it is quite simple to do via GoZ bridge once you know how brushes work.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the advice! I honestly was under the impression that the things I want to do would be simpler than creating clothing...Ohh dear, I'm in for a rude awakening, aren't I? :p For now, I can't even get the GOZ working. My baby steps in Zbrush are really, really really going to be baby steps. ¬.¬ But Zbrush does look astounding, I hope I can force myself to stick at it, even if it's going to be a big learning curve!

  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    And I see, Kattey, thank you very much! Unfortunately, all that effort to fit Genesis clothes onto a statically shaped Victoria seems a little...Hmm. Well, if there's any Genesis attire that I so very desperately want on my Gen 4 girls, I suppose I'll have that option, thank you!

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited October 2013

    To make GoZ work I installed both GoZ from Pixologic site, and this GoZ (http://www.daz3d.com/goz-for-daz-studio). Not sure if Pixologic's one is needed and I had to reinstall my DS as well once before I installed both GoZs again. But it might be due to either DS or ZBrush update, I don't remember clearly.

    After you installed them, open DS, load your model, select your model, go to File-> Send to ZBrush. You might want to "export with deformations" checked, if you are making a morph. I think at your first use of GoZ it will ask you to confirm some paths and after that you'd have only to press Ctrl-G (default shortcut, I think) to send morphs back. Using extended setting and reverse deformation option usually better if you do morphs.
    Also be aware, that DS doesn't automatically saves morphs from ZBrush. It will work while scene is open but if you wish to use the morph again, you'd have to save it (for Generation 4 figures) either as a part of cr2 (for things like clothes and props), or as inj-rem/ExP morph for figures.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Unfortunately, Daz is saying that the plug in has failed; I have rebought Daz 4.6 Pro and downloaded the GOZ from there, so it's certainly the most up to date one. I'm using Daz Studio 4.6.0.18. I've tried deleting the GoZ manually from the Plug In folder, and am now reinstalling it. Zbrush's GOZ can find Daz Studio just fine, thankfully, so it's only Daz that's having the issue.

    I can tell already this is going to be one of THOSE things with countless little bumps on the road...*Laughs* Worth it!

  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Version:
    0.0.0.0
    Reason:
    Library could not be loaded. File is not a valid DAZ Studio plug-in, or was made for a different version of DAZ Studio.


    ...Version 0.0.0.0 doesn't sound right. >.>

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    Ashfire45 said:
    Thank you for the advice! I honestly was under the impression that the things I want to do would be simpler than creating clothing...

    Morph creation _is_ simpler than clothes creation. But refitting that you asked about as well, is, essentially, clothes creation, only with some steps skipped but some other steps added.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    Ashfire45 said:
    I've tried deleting the GoZ manually from the Plug In folder

    Personally I almost never delete plugins manually, I use uninstallers. There maybe some little piece somewhere that I might overlook.

    As for version 0.0.0.0., it certainly doesn't seem to be right.

  • EleleElele Posts: 938
    edited December 1969

    Ashfire45 said:
    Ohh dear, I'm in for a rude awakening, aren't I?

    Not necessarily. It is a great program, but there will probably be some bumps on the road :D
    Also don't take my word for it, i just started using it a couple of months ago. It took a while, but i finally get the impression I can get it to do what i want (which basically means I'm starting to know the tools... In reality, Zbrush finally managed to make me do things the way IT wants :D )

  • Ashfire45Ashfire45 Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    Well, just to report; I managed to get Zbrush working, and have been playing around with it for a few days now. GOZ has worked almost flawlessly, save for some curious moments when it'll only import a single article of clothing from my figure and not the full thing, but...Without much/any knowledge of Zbrush, I managed to create a gorgeous looking morph for the Selene hair, that involved the hair being splayed on the ground. It took me all but three, four minutes at the most. I've also used it to get clothes fitting my favourite (and heavily customized) Aiko 4 gal perfectly - even one of Genesis' pieces, although that was in the standard T pose.

    I've done all this with only the 'Move' and 'smooth' tool. So needless to say, I am just so over whelmed with Zbrush and how powerful but easy it is to use. It's so intuitive that it has more common sense than -I- do, which has lead to some confusion..*Nervous laugh*

    However, for the more experienced Zbrush user, I was wondering what to do about this dilemna. I have a pose with my character sitting with one leg crossed over the other. And it looks perfectly fine from the front, but I can see that the thigh's cutting into the other thigh. I'd like to use Zbrush to create soft body physics; the only problem is that, because the legs are so close together, the skin is...melded into one, if you understand what I mean? If I use the Zbrush, it moves both thighs together.

    Does anyone have any advice for that?

  • madmadmad2040madmadmad2040 Posts: 0
    edited October 2013

    Ashfire45 said:
    Well, just to report; I managed to get Zbrush working, and have been playing around with it for a few days now. GOZ has worked almost flawlessly, save for some curious moments when it'll only import a single article of clothing from my figure and not the full thing, but...Without much/any knowledge of Zbrush, I managed to create a gorgeous looking morph for the Selene hair, that involved the hair being splayed on the ground. It took me all but three, four minutes at the most. I've also used it to get clothes fitting my favourite (and heavily customized) Aiko 4 gal perfectly - even one of Genesis' pieces, although that was in the standard T pose.

    I've done all this with only the 'Move' and 'smooth' tool. So needless to say, I am just so over whelmed with Zbrush and how powerful but easy it is to use. It's so intuitive that it has more common sense than -I- do, which has lead to some confusion..*Nervous laugh*

    However, for the more experienced Zbrush user, I was wondering what to do about this dilemna. I have a pose with my character sitting with one leg crossed over the other. And it looks perfectly fine from the front, but I can see that the thigh's cutting into the other thigh. I'd like to use Zbrush to create soft body physics; the only problem is that, because the legs are so close together, the skin is...melded into one, if you understand what I mean? If I use the Zbrush, it moves both thighs together.

    Does anyone have any advice for that?

    you might have got the answer bu now but if you dint, here is what you do.
    you have a view the mesh in polyframe mode in zbrush turn it on if you see only one colour mesh,hit auto group with uv in the polygroups pallet.
    now you should see different polygroups for both the legs ,still if you dont then you can manuallu select them "ctrl+shift"function and group them. now go to brush pallet and the select the brush you want and in the pallet see if auto-masking is on and set" by polygroups to 100" now yoy can move only one leg without affecting other,the first poly group you touch in a stroke will only be affected avoiding others

    Post edited by madmadmad2040 on
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