First impressions of Dawn?.....V4 is safe.

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Comments

  • evilgidgetevilgidget Posts: 83
    edited December 1969

    Well, I'll leave all the technical discussion to those who are better versed in such things, but, for me, Dawn was enough to bring me back to 3D. Being a user who moved to Poser only at the introduction of Genesis and abandoned Genesis in Poser around the introduction of the DSON importer( as well as not ever being that fond of V4), I spent a couple of years struggling along with figures that I just couldn't get enough content for to use consistently. So in March I just quit rendering and buying content. Dawn has won me back for another try with the potential support I see for her. My apologies to all the creators for the lack of skill in these renders, I am quite rusty.

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    I think your renders look just great EGidget!

    Here is a bit more work I've done on Marilyn. FBM and allot more tweaks to the face. Tweaked one of the poses that came with Dawn to death to get it to look more like a classic pinup pose but still needs more tweaking too.

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  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 699
    edited December 1969

    Every morph I see of her still looks like a modified Gena Davis.

    LOL - I think you are on to something there

    That's interesting, because every time I see the default morph, I see Eva Mendes.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:
    Every morph I see of her still looks like a modified Gena Davis.

    LOL - I think you are on to something there

    That's interesting, because every time I see the default morph, I see Eva Mendes.

    THAT'S IT. That's who default Dawn looks like! :-)

  • magicweavermagicweaver Posts: 110
    edited December 1969

    I think maybe folks make snap decissions and end up talkin smack when they havent put full effort into "the good college try!" I made this with zbrush and in poser and it only took me a few minutes whereas the genesis and v4 models usually take me hours because of the uvs

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  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited December 1969

    I think maybe folks make snap decissions and end up talkin smack when they havent put full effort into "the good college try!" I made this with zbrush and in poser and it only took me a few minutes whereas the genesis and v4 models usually take me hours because of the uvs

    Actually I had to opposite opinion, as it took me 20 minutes just to soften up her facial features and work around those butterfly eyelashes. Then another 10 to tweak the materials.

    This is as far as I got before I deleted her from my library.

    I tried to keep my mind open on her, but there's far too many issues with her to make anything comparable to what I've done with genesis.

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  • 3dLux3dLux Posts: 745
    edited August 2013

    There was a morph/skin of Dawn that I finally liked enough to buy so I tried it out.

    I dunno :shrug: I think Vickie is safe; she has years and years of content on Dawn.

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    Post edited by 3dLux on
  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi EvilGidget
    Nice. Is the face your own morph? I've found the mesh rather easy to morph!

    Well, I'll leave all the technical discussion to those who are better versed in such things, but, for me, Dawn was enough to bring me back to 3D. Being a user who moved to Poser only at the introduction of Genesis and abandoned Genesis in Poser around the introduction of the DSON importer( as well as not ever being that fond of V4), I spent a couple of years struggling along with figures that I just couldn't get enough content for to use consistently. So in March I just quit rendering and buying content. Dawn has won me back for another try with the potential support I see for her. My apologies to all the creators for the lack of skill in these renders, I am quite rusty.

  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Sir Wolff
    She's coming along. I've not made a likeness since Megan Fox a couple of years ago. I seem to have started up with Zbrush again making Aliens, Elves, and a rather scary Sith Lord/Demon for M4-since then I switched over to making Creatures with Dawn's mesh. I have to agree with Cath-it really does lend itself to morphing.

    RAMWolff said:
    I think your renders look just great EGidget!

    Here is a bit more work I've done on Marilyn. FBM and allot more tweaks to the face. Tweaked one of the poses that came with Dawn to death to get it to look more like a classic pinup pose but still needs more tweaking too.

  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've seen some Geena Davis resemblance.
    So which one of my Green Dawn morphs looks like Geena? I admit I'm not seeing it with these two. :-) I guess you'd call the one on the left
    "Don?"

    Every morph I see of her still looks like a modified Gena Davis.

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited August 2013

    Personally I found the comment about Gina Davis to be quite insulting. I don't spend that sort of precious time developing a morph and to have the courage to post it and have it followed up with that sort of snotty comment. If you don't have anything nice to day bugger off! >:(

    PS. thanks for the nice compliment Eric! I love your Aliens! :-)

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • Type 0 NegativeType 0 Negative Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Here is the noise map I made. You are welcome to use it.

    Click on the picture to bring up the full size, right click and save as.

    Sorry I'm slow to reply, just been real busy this week, no time for internet or computer.
    Thanks a lot, I'll gladly give your noise map a try.

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 1,816
    edited December 1969

    I think the 'Geena Davis syndrome' is a result of the nose shapes having semi-sharp edges to them just like Ms. Davis's nose has. IMO Dawn has to much mesh density to the nose, it is no wonder so many morphs end up looking like they do.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited August 2013

    Your welcome Type O.

    Well there are plenty of poly's in the nose so not sure why folks are assuming that there are resaons for why allot of the morphs are looking similar. When Genesis was first released and folks where getting a handle of the mesh many of the morphs looked very similar. My Marilyn morph took Dawn to a different level in the looks dept compared to allot I've seen so far besides Eric and Mec4D but it doesn't mean that folks aren't TRYING to achieve something. I really liked what Male-M3dia did and wished he would have continued exploring what can be achieved with the figure. The first image I posted of MarilynD was an early WIP and the second with the full body morph WIP has her face changed ALLOT more. My snappy come back was that folks always assume that something is more or less than what's really going on. Plus, again, if folks have the COURAGE to post their work folks should either praise it, offer direction if it's asked for or just be quiet. Trust me I've seen some morphs done around here that make me wince but I just keep it shut as hurting someone feelings can easily cause them to give up entirely. Since this is about art at the end of the day it's really not what ANY OF US should be doing to cause someone to just throw up their hands and walk away. ENCOURAGE not DISCOURAGE.

    Thanks

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 1,816
    edited December 1969

    How do you get sharp edges in a model? Answer, you slide face edges close together. With so many edges in Dawn's nose the chance of edges bunching up is almost a certainty.

  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Sir RamWolff!
    I like your Marilyn WIP!


    RAMWolff said:
    Personally I found the comment about Gina Davis to be quite insulting. I don't spend that sort of precious time developing a morph and to have the courage to post it and have it followed up with that sort of snotty comment. If you don't have anything nice to day bugger off! >:(

    PS. thanks for the nice compliment Eric! I love your Aliens! :-)

  • xjadexxxxjadexxx Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    This is not intended to spark a debate about which model is better.

    My question is about the perceived impact of these two models. DAZ released V6/G2F and there are a few products released on DAZ, and a very small number of products released elsewhere.

    Dawn is released and the short list is where she is NOT being supported with a healthy number of products.

    What am I missing here? Dawn does not seem to be a product that technically bulldozes over V6, but she seems to be everywhere. Meanwhile, V6 is released and hardly anything shows up.

    Again, not intended to start a flame war. I am truly curious about why Dawn is everywhere with products flowing like water, and V6 is pretty much at DAZ, with seemingly fewer releases around her.

    To give context, I purchased V6/Gia/Girl6 and I have not purchased Dawn.

    Thank you for any insight you can share.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    A lot of Poser users didn't really get onboard with Genesis for various reasons. For that reason you'll see a lot of Poser users still using Victoria 4 as their go-to figure for females. Dawn offered a new avenue for them, effectively giving them the 'Genesis' figure in a native Poser format. Perhaps not quite as versatile yet, but certainly with the potential to get there. As a result, virtually all of the hubbub over Dawn is from the Poser community rather than DS users with many clamouring for her thanks to her malleability.

    Those of us who are used to Genesis aren't quite as enthusiastic because we've had this ability for a while now and Dawn doesn't really offer much to existing Genesis users. It's my belief, however, that the Poser users greatly outnumber DS users which is why there's so much movement for Dawn as many publishers amateur and professional alike create items for what they see as 'the new V4'.

    Genesis 2 Female has some great support as well, but less so from smaller publishers like those which populate much of Renderosity as they tend to be more focused on Poser content rather than Daz. Again, with the majority of users being Poser users there are fewer people creating DS content, so there's fewer releases. Genesis had similar issues. That said, the people who do develop for Genesis tend to create items of fantastic quality, so it's hard to grumble.

  • xjadexxxxjadexxx Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the insight.

    I hope that DAZ achieves one of the following...
    1) Creates a DAZ Studio that wins over Poser users
    2) Creates a Genesis that can be used natively in Poser
    3) Both of the above

    I have been a long time customer of DAZ and want to see them continue to flourish, with cash flowing like water. :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    I think Dawn is fabulous. One of the first female models that truly works between both programs natively since V4. You can't deny that. I'm working off and on creating Bruno for Dawn and a Marilyn Monroe morph that's coming along very nicely. Since I last posted she's transformed body and face allot more but I'm holding off posting until I'm happy and don't get any more negative jabs at my attempts. As for her versatility she's very versatile. When Genesis first hit the market everyone was like "A sexless figure, it won't fly" but it did, in time you now have GIGABYTES of content for the figure. No, the Genesis 02 figure is not as popular because folks finally embraced what Genesis 01 could do and are disappointed in the direction that Genesis 02 has taken.

    Mec4D is working on getting Darren released for Dawn and if you saw the promos you would fall over. She's done amazing things with this figure. Give her/him time, more stuff will come out and she will be a staple in allot folks Runtime and My Libraries.

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 1,710
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Personally I found the comment about Gina Davis to be quite insulting. I don't spend that sort of precious time developing a morph and to have the courage to post it and have it followed up with that sort of snotty comment. If you don't have anything nice to day bugger off! >:(

    PS. thanks for the nice compliment Eric! I love your Aliens! :-)

    It was not a comment about your morphs but about the appearance of the base figure. She looks like Gina Davis to me and thus every morph of the base figure looks like "Gina Davis as a teenager. Gina Davis as an alien. Gina Davis as a werewolf. Gina Davis as C'Thulhu".

    No insult was intended.

  • Agent_UnawaresAgent_Unawares Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    One of the first female models that truly works between both programs natively since V4. You can't deny that.

    I can. She doesn't work between programs. Two diffferent variations of her were created for two different programs. Someone could create a Poser weight-mapped Genesis and that wouldn't make Genesis all of a sudden cross-compatible. All the illusion of cross-compatibility comes from people beinng willing to create for both programs, and so far there still seems to be a split in the market.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,113
    edited December 1969

    This is 3DSublime's Andrea for Dawn character. I rather fell in love with this character as far as Dawn morphs go.

    Sorry Ghastly, no Geena Davis in this one for you. :P

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  • mrposermrposer Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    I like Dawn but she needs a much more complete set of morphs... the base and starter morphs are not sufficient... the Bruno morphs will help so thanks Ramwolf... maybe RDNA will come out with an ultra morphs for her. I am surprised the folks at Hivewire didn't have extensive morphs at the release... they had that buildup month before release.... and they have not released hardly anything since.except what their PAs have done.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,113
    edited December 1969

    Chris is working on a more extensive morph set for her atm.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    One of the first female models that truly works between both programs natively since V4. You can't deny that.

    I can. She doesn't work between programs. Two diffferent variations of her were created for two different programs. Someone could create a Poser weight-mapped Genesis and that wouldn't make Genesis all of a sudden cross-compatible. All the illusion of cross-compatibility comes from people beinng willing to create for both programs, and so far there still seems to be a split in the market.

    That's true enough. Dawn has the same rigging it's the weight mapping that's different. If Smith Micro and DAZ3D had gotten their heads together instead of trying to outdo the other and decided which weight mapping would work best between both programs we wouldn't have to have debates about all this. Dawn is an attempt to bridge things. At least SOMEONE'S trying rather than just placing blame. and yes, it is up to the content creators to make their products for Dawn cross compatible. I for one while I'm enjoying creating morphs for Dawn if I decided to do skin I'd probably have to team up with someone to help me with the Poser side as I don't know enough about it to do anything like shaders or even basic mat poses any justice what so ever.

    Cath, who started out as a Poser gal is now mostly using DAZ Studio but is learning Poser again to make sure her suite of upcoming products for Dawn is compatible. Out of Touch is also stepping up to the plate on that end as well as others. Not many but it's a new figure so time will tell. I like this figure allot and she's more versatile than many are giving her credit for.

    As for her looking like Gina, she does but there was that other comparison to a Latin actress that I think befits her more. She's a hell of allot prettier than Victoria 3 could ever hope to have been and she was on top for years and years. LOL

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    There is ONE aspect I do NOT like about Dawn. All the figures I've worked with over the years always had controls to move and resize the teeth. Dawns teeth are nailed down. In ZBrush I'm able to move them and resize them and may included a freebie set with my morphs to allow for this if Chris doesn't in his upcoming morph pack. I thought that was a little short sighted of Hivewire to leave those very important options out.

  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well said RamWolff

    She looks a lot like a young Latina woman I used to know-more than Geena Davis-for certain!
    Here are some Goblin characters I made from the Dawn mesh. I cannot see any Geena Davis in them-but I suspect someone here will say they look like Geena Davis. :-) I guess my eyes are just not sensitive enough to see it.
    Eric

    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:
    One of the first female models that truly works between both programs natively since V4. You can't deny that.

    I can. She doesn't work between programs. Two diffferent variations of her were created for two different programs. Someone could create a Poser weight-mapped Genesis and that wouldn't make Genesis all of a sudden cross-compatible. All the illusion of cross-compatibility comes from people beinng willing to create for both programs, and so far there still seems to be a split in the market.

    That's true enough. Dawn has the same rigging it's the weight mapping that's different. If Smith Micro and DAZ3D had gotten their heads together instead of trying to outdo the other and decided which weight mapping would work best between both programs we wouldn't have to have debates about all this. Dawn is an attempt to bridge things. At least SOMEONE'S trying rather than just placing blame. and yes, it is up to the content creators to make their products for Dawn cross compatible. I for one while I'm enjoying creating morphs for Dawn if I decided to do skin I'd probably have to team up with someone to help me with the Poser side as I don't know enough about it to do anything like shaders or even basic mat poses any justice what so ever.

    Cath, who started out as a Poser gal is now mostly using DAZ Studio but is learning Poser again to make sure her suite of upcoming products for Dawn is compatible. Out of Touch is also stepping up to the plate on that end as well as others. Not many but it's a new figure so time will tell. I like this figure allot and she's more versatile than many are giving her credit for.

    As for her looking like Gina, she does but there was that other comparison to a Latin actress that I think befits her more. She's a hell of allot prettier than Victoria 3 could ever hope to have been and she was on top for years and years. LOL

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  • Eric WaltersEric Walters Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi RamWollff
    I have to agree with that. Most of my characters are full body morphs-so I morphed the teeth and jaw to go with the face and head morphs.
    For V4 or M4, I really appreciated being able to move the teeth independently. I'll keep an eye out for your morph pack-even though I make my own-you do good work!
    Eric

    RAMWolff said:
    There is ONE aspect I do NOT like about Dawn. All the figures I've worked with over the years always had controls to move and resize the teeth. Dawns teeth are nailed down. In ZBrush I'm able to move them and resize them and may included a freebie set with my morphs to allow for this if Chris doesn't in his upcoming morph pack. I thought that was a little short sighted of Hivewire to leave those very important options out.

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