Let’s Make Clothing! Tutorial thread. Shoes too!

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Comments

  • drcharbonneaudrcharbonneau Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience.
    Wouldn't it be more productive, animation wise (which is something both programs encourage one to become involved...), to use the Constructive Solid Geometry approach as rings of B-Splines or NURBS? Perhaps verts at the seams. Wouldn't that also cut down memory usage?


    Sickle Yield,

    One could begin as a single plane and extrude from there? Is it possible to begin as a point and build outward in 3Space? Do you think it's possible to do what I described to Patience?

    I think pursuing that algorithm might have some educational benefits, even if just to show why. I'm going to try some other ways, including the use of primitives. I noticed in the UV Mapping tuts how seams are made, although I haven't tried any of the methods yet. Modeling is my first pursuit.

    RAMWolf,

    Someone had to say it. Glad it was you ;)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience.
    Wouldn't it be more productive, animation wise (which is something both programs encourage one to become involved...), to use the Constructive Solid Geometry approach as rings of B-Splines or NURBS? Perhaps verts at the seams. Wouldn't that also cut down memory usage?


    Sickle Yield,

    One could begin as a single plane and extrude from there? Is it possible to begin as a point and build outward in 3Space? Do you think it's possible to do what I described to Patience?

    I think pursuing that algorithm might have some educational benefits, even if just to show why. I'm going to try some other ways, including the use of primitives. I noticed in the UV Mapping tuts how seams are made, although I haven't tried any of the methods yet. Modeling is my first pursuit.

    RAMWolf,

    Someone had to say it. Glad it was you ;)

    In effect, no, it's not a good method for this program. Once again, I tell you what the person in this thread is told: strip model and subsurf. http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?28485-Spline-modeling-in-Blender-Is-there-such-a-thing


    Ignoring UV mapping at any stage is a bad idea because the necessity of a good map affects how you build your mesh and why it is constructed in certain ways (for e.g. where you can best place seams on a garment and whether you should model them in as a visible garment seam). It's much better to learn to UV map a simpler model now than try to start with a complex one later.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience.
    Wouldn't it be more productive, animation wise (which is something both programs encourage one to become involved...), to use the Constructive Solid Geometry approach as rings of B-Splines or NURBS? Perhaps verts at the seams. Wouldn't that also cut down memory usage?

    .... edit ...

    Hmmm ... no.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience.
    Wouldn't it be more productive, animation wise (which is something both programs encourage one to become involved...), to use the Constructive Solid Geometry approach as rings of B-Splines or NURBS? Perhaps verts at the seams. Wouldn't that also cut down memory usage?

    NURBS have to be meshed before they can be rendered. The meshes are very often very dense. I love nurbs, they're great for solid modelling, but for things like clothing, which is a far more organic surface, you use SubDiv modelling. The core of the math is the same as NURBs anyway...

  • drcharbonneaudrcharbonneau Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I was wondering, because I was messing with Bezier curves as a sweep path around one axis. Say...the waist is a cross-section of one or more curves, then the thoracic and cervical tomes would blend together. Wherever the curves have handles, vertices should show up and edges, at least, in the 3rd axis cords, should too.

    As for making a duplicate of the Genesis figure sections, I can see where the convergence of complex spherical vertices, such as nipples, would be creating triangles inside a nice little quad mesh.

    Patirnce,

    Assuming you could also do this in Hex, that Bezier can be stretched and handled till doomsday, even in the direction vertical to the plane. One of my first tests for a modeler is whether it will do a helix.

    You don't think it would be faster to build up a mesh as a line in a plane then extruding it in increments around the figure? I've been pretty busy lately, so I'm just asking questions. If I get a chance, I'll try a number of different clothing directions, including the ones you've depicted.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    ... edit ...
    Patience,

    Assuming you could also do this in Hex, that Bezier can be stretched and handled till doomsday, ... Nothing can be done in Hexagon 'til Doomsday lol ...

    You don't think it would be faster to build up a mesh as a line in a plane then extruding it in increments around the figure? I've been pretty busy lately, so I'm just asking questions. If I get a chance, I'll try a number of different clothing directions, including the ones you've depicted.

    Well, depends what I'm making. There's no absolute "right way/wrong way" except for software limitations and of course the physical realities of what one is doing.

    It depends which edition of Hexagon one is using.
    Taking a line and adding thickness for example, may or not also produce 'magically' a bunch of unwelded lines.
    Extracting lines can cause crash after crash IF any action done previous created one of those unwelded lines.
    Tessellation loves creating unwelded lines.
    To note, in the older version the above problems were not as common. Of course it has other issues. However rather than harping on what any program can not do, it's much healthier thinking to figure out "how to" make something work ... and spend time modeling the way one knows it will work. Productivity also includes how much time is spent redoing items because actions led to dead ends.

    I hope all have time to read through that "Joan of Arc" tutorial mentioned in one the links SickleYield mentioned. Many of the modeling methods certainly transfer over to other programs and it's excellent for where it matches up with how to model in Hexagon as well.

  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited May 2013

    Hi... (coming out of thread lurking mode) ;-)

    I hope all have time to read through that "Joan of Arc" tutorial mentioned in one the links SickleYield mentioned. Many of the modeling methods certainly transfer over to other programs and it's excellent for where it matches up with how to model in Hexagon as well.

    That tutorial is what lead me to DAZ3D and 3D art... :lol:

    Prior to that my whole experience with 3D on computers was only CAD design and computer art was bitmap painting and vector graphics...

    I had just watched the Final Fantasy movie and was amazed by the animation and wanted to know how they created they figures, I didn't have a clue what methods or even software was used for it... I had heard of Poser before, but didn't know what it did... never heard of DAZ or Blender or Maya or etc...

    I thought that the imagery in the movie would go well with one of my short stories and if I could create the images on my computer, that would save me alot of time verses drawing, painting and scanning...

    I did a google search, don't recall the wording I used, but that tutorial came up... I read the whole thing... then looked up the software used, Maya, and then promptly keeled over at the price... :grrr:

    Then I noticed one of the banner ads on the tutorials page, it was for DAZ3D, but what caught my eye was the word FREE...

    Click...join...download Studio 3... install... download free content from store... install... become addicted... buy content... install... realised that morning had come... %-P

    Found Blender later that day... made my first model later that night... spent the next year learning everything I could... reading and watching tutorials, books... found the DAZ forums at the end of that first year... you would think that I would have noticed the forum right off, but I guess I was to busy shopping in the store whenever I came to the site...

    Anyways... I have found that these forums have been one of the best places to learn, for me at least, and threads like this, are true treasures...

    Thanks Patience for all you contributions and keeping this thread going, I read it daily, even if only late at night before I go to bed... and thanks SickleYield, for your input in this thread and others... I have learned alot from your expertise and insight into modeling and Blender...

    Sorry for going a bit off topic here... it's just that, if it wasn't for that tutorial, well I wouldn't be here...

    nicci... :)

    I still haven't starting making the images for that story yet... I wonder why?

    Post edited by niccipb on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    niccipb said:
    Hi... (coming out of thread lurking mode) ;-)

    I hope all have time to read through that "Joan of Arc" tutorial mentioned in one the links SickleYield mentioned. Many of the modeling methods certainly transfer over to other programs and it's excellent for where it matches up with how to model in Hexagon as well.

    That tutorial is what lead me to DAZ3D and 3D art... :lol:

    Prior to that my whole experience with 3D on computers was only CAD design and computer art was bitmap painting and vector graphics...

    I had just watched the Final Fantasy movie and was amazed by the animation and wanted to know how they created they figures, I didn't have a clue what methods or even software was used for it... I had heard of Poser before, but didn't know what it did... never heard of DAZ or Blender or Maya or etc...

    I thought that the imagery in the movie would go well with one of my short stories and if I could create the images on my computer, that would save me alot of time verses drawing, painting and scanning...

    I did a google search, don't recall the wording I used, but that tutorial came up... I read the whole thing... then looked up the software used, Maya, and then promptly keeled over at the price... :grrr:

    Then I noticed one of the banner ads on the tutorials page, it was for DAZ3D, but what caught my eye was the word FREE...

    Click...join...download Studio 3... install... download free content from store... install... become addicted... buy content... install... realised that morning had come... %-P

    Found Blender later that day... made my first model later that night... spent the next year learning everything I could... reading and watching tutorials, books... found the DAZ forums at the end of that first year... you would think that I would have noticed the forum right off, but I guess I was to busy shopping in the store whenever I came to the site...

    Anyways... I have found that these forums have been one of the best places to learn, for me at least, and threads like this, are true treasures...

    Thanks Patience for all you contributions and keeping this thread going, I read it daily, even if only late at night before I go to bed... and thanks SickleYield, for your input in this thread and others... I have learned alot from your expertise and insight into modeling and Blender...

    Sorry for going a bit off topic here... it's just that, if it wasn't for that tutorial, well I wouldn't be here...

    nicci... :)

    I still haven't starting making the images for that story yet... I wonder why?

    You're welcome ... and feel free to pop in anytime.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Ditto. :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,258
    edited December 1969

    Question about perhaps a rigging issue that's popped up, literally.

    This wasn't happening before I had my system reload so not sure what's changed but this is what's happening. The SuperCape is kind of a mess in a few ways so researching how to fix what I can (getting tired of messing with it truth be told but I keep chalking it up to learning experiences). When I dial one of the morphs I made for it the second I start to pull the dial to the right or left the whole cape "pops" a little bit and when I release the dial it "pops" back to some sort of default position with the morph applied to it. Don't think it's the weight mapping since I removed all that last night as a test and it was still doing it.

    Can anyone shed any light on this for me with what I might try to remedy that??

    Not at all good at animations but threw this together in XaraX showing what I'm talking about.....

    CapePop.gif
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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Either it's the smoothing calculation, or you may need to go to the bone tool and use memorize--memorize figure rigging (it can act like it's having to "remind" itself that the mesh is rigged).

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,258
    edited May 2013

    yea, did the memorize thing and nope, seems it's yet something else. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    I've also experienced that if I dial the bend all the way up to 180 degrees (which I made it that much because of like a strong wind effect) and then use the side to side or twist dials the cape sort of collapses a bit (not all of it, mostly just the bits nearest to the body) and then puffs back out when I release the cursor from the dial. So I'm thinking it might just be the weight mapping but just wasn't doing that before.

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi...

    What you are describing sounds like a viewport display setting... open the Tool Settings pane with the Universal Tool selected and check the "skin binding" setting... if it's on "Optimized" change it to "Full" and see if the effect is reduced or goes away...

    If you have subdivision on the cape, you can also change the setting for SubDivision to "Persistent (on)"

    When you did your system "Refresh" you may have lost these settings from your previous install and that is why you're now seeing this...

    Hope this helps...

    nicci... :)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    What a day.

    Okay ... for modeling in Hexagon, one of the problems sometimes with the older version [haven't discovered yet if the new one does this too], is that it will turn a normal sized file into a HUGE file ... we're talking hundreds of mb if not more, "for nothing".
    Aside from the fact that such files will freeze/crash programs and even the computer ... nobody needs a prop item that weighs 'hundreds' of MBs for nothing.

    Sometimes running the prop creation utility script brings down sizes well enough but today the task was too much even for it.
    However it helped enough to make a prop that would load and not crash/freeze the program, so I loaded this prop into D/S4.5 [works better on super sized nonsense files than D/S3] and then exported out an .obj file. MUCH MUCH better. Turned one file that was nearly 300 mb into less than 500kb. Turned another file that was nearly 580 mb into one that was less than 10mb.

    Now, okay ... one has to then take said .obj files back into Hexagon to polish them off so the rigging will work but still, the final file was MUCH better in size.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,258
    edited December 1969

    niccipb said:
    Hi...

    What you are describing sounds like a viewport display setting... open the Tool Settings pane with the Universal Tool selected and check the "skin binding" setting... if it's on "Optimized" change it to "Full" and see if the effect is reduced or goes away...

    If you have subdivision on the cape, you can also change the setting for SubDivision to "Persistent (on)"

    When you did your system "Refresh" you may have lost these settings from your previous install and that is why you're now seeing this...

    Hope this helps...

    nicci... :)

    Holy crap, now I remember. Richard set me str8 on that a while back come to think of it. I guess with DAZ Studio being newly installed since my system reload those settings were lost. I'll give that a try and see if that fixes it. I'll bet it does. Thanks for the info. Sometimes I need reminders it seems. My old brain just amazes me with how much I forget at times!

    :P

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,258
    edited December 1969

    YUP, that did the trick. Wish DAZ would make that the default setting. SHEESH. I was thinking I had done something wrong ..... :-/

  • drcharbonneaudrcharbonneau Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Wow!

    This all sounds horrifying.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,725
    edited December 1969

    I could definitely use some advice here, please.

  • drcharbonneaudrcharbonneau Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Oh dear... I guess I'm a bad boy. I messed with that forbidden method again, filled in a few faces, dragged a few vertices around, scaled the leotard in the x and y directions, turned on my camera-light layer and (slap me!) I rendered it...

    I'm not sure what will happen if I actually rig the figure, weight map and such. As I said before, it's a learning experience of course I used to concoct my own gesso, too... ;)

    GenDAZ2.png
    960 x 540 - 91K
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited May 2013

    While browsing through some tuts over at Youtube.com found this gem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byvf2kihjcE Retaining morphs in clothing conversions to Genesis :-)


    This is also a great starter set of Daz3d video tuts for using the Content Creation tools:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLB2o_FYDAw start

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cV3VaC7eIs&list=PL31D97C0FEB836F67

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52wwyv234U&list=PL31D97C0FEB836F67

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIIM1oAan7o&list=PL31D97C0FEB836F67

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppi--4q56B0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-SKYTOkVo4

    Gem tips:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/22026/#325677 by Male-M3dia
    Basically: Tip is towards modeling to the base Genesis shape. Reversing it back to the base shape can cause warping/crushing

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • TapiocaTundraTapiocaTundra Posts: 268
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for all the video links Patience and the link over to our hexagon thread, I will settle down and go through them.
    I have attempted a few clothing projects and must admit I find even the apparently simplest of clothing item turns into quite an involved and complex process and have given up or lost enthusiasm towards the later stages.When projects seem finished they are not and always more work has to be done.
    I have not yet used genesis at all in my attempts, it has always been v4 or m3 and the older figures.I suppose the "for me" recent addition of genesis has confused somewhat.
    Would I be correct in assuming it is far more straight forward to make clothes for genesis?
    And are my older figures, which I quite like, now defunct ?

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for all the video links Patience and the link over to our hexagon thread, I will settle down and go through them.
    I have attempted a few clothing projects and must admit I find even the apparently simplest of clothing item turns into quite an involved and complex process and have given up or lost enthusiasm towards the later stages.When projects seem finished they are not and always more work has to be done.
    I have not yet used genesis at all in my attempts, it has always been v4 or m3 and the older figures.I suppose the "for me" recent addition of genesis has confused somewhat.
    Would I be correct in assuming it is far more straight forward to make clothes for genesis?
    And are my older figures, which I quite like, now defunct ?

    Genesis is much easier to make clothes for than Gen 3 and 4, but people do still both use and work with those figures.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for all the video links Patience and the link over to our hexagon thread, I will settle down and go through them.
    I have attempted a few clothing projects and must admit I find even the apparently simplest of clothing item turns into quite an involved and complex process and have given up or lost enthusiasm towards the later stages.When projects seem finished they are not and always more work has to be done.
    I have not yet used genesis at all in my attempts, it has always been v4 or m3 and the older figures.I suppose the "for me" recent addition of genesis has confused somewhat.
    Would I be correct in assuming it is far more straight forward to make clothes for genesis?
    And are my older figures, which I quite like, now defunct ?

    You're welcome.

    The older figures are not defunct as far as many a devoted Daz Studio/Poser user is concerned. They are not the newest, latest, brightest toys in the toybox anymore and are therefore not being pushed in advertizing, etc ... which is normal enough for any company. The newest toy, Genesis is a LOT easier to make clothes for. YET there are many people only going so far, then dropping out, because yes there are some situations which require a little more attention and not everybody understands that "making clothing for Genesis does not start and stop with the transfer utility button". One brief tut I read somewhere was in a nutshell, just telling people to import her clothing objects and hit the 'make clothing' button. Can't see how that helped her customers.
    The "make clothing" button was a precursor to the "Transfer Utility" and while it was left on for people to play around with, the tool to use is the "Transfer Utility". And then after making clothing using either button, one "has to" SAVE it ... or one doesn't have a new piece of clothing. And I don't know anybody that wants to go through the entire process of making a piece of clothing "everytime" they wish to use a particular outfit.

    Getting the information for legacy rigging was like pulling hen's teeth. Finally, "one way or another" I was able to actually make some clothing items but being a late comer into the field, Genesis flew into the picture and a whole bunch more learning how to do make clothing for it ensued. As far as legacy rigging goes, there are a few tools which help the process a lot. There are 'now' some good tutorials available for sale on the topic. While I have invested in a few tutorials, I refuse to spend oodles of money to make clothing to give away. Just doesn't make sense. If one wishes to spend oodles of time making morphs manually, one can solve many of the situations that arise in legacy rigging. D/S4.5 does have legacy rigging abilities so for those with D/S3 and no figure skeleton tools, nab the 4.5 while it's still free!

    If one wishes to make clothing items 'props' for their own still images, there's a real easy way to do that. Pose the figure, export out the .obj. In the modeler make the clothing exactly how you want it to flare or whatever. Zap the figure. Export out the clothing item. In D/S set up and pose the figure. Import in the .obj and texture it. Make it into a prop if planning to reuse. Save project. Render image.
    n.b. that this type of clothing item does not move with the figure except by parenting it to, let's say the hip, but that's just for basic relocation. Does not animate ... unless it is a very small item parented on to, let's say, a finger.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    Okay, we need to make something for Genesis.

    What? [and please, for beginner tutorials let's not suggest super complex items :snake:]

  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,126
    edited December 1969

    First thing I made for Genesis was a plain straight dress. No sleeves and no fussy bits added on. Plain and simple.:-)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited May 2013

    Okay, a dress :-)

    For starters [and required for any clothing item], let's be sure we all have a "Clothing Mannequin" aka 'Clothing Dummy'.

    The images are numbered in order. Hopefully they'll load that way.

    Open D/S4.x > "0" Genesis mesh resolution [not mandatory but we don't need HD] > export out the .obj file.

    When all steps for that are completed, close D/S.

    Open Hexagon and import in the newly created GenesisClothingDummy.obj file.
    Fix it up.
    Export it out.

    Close Hexagon.

    Find a nice picture or two of what you'd like to model.

    hehehe ... oh I hope I can find that site ...

    005.png
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    004.png
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    003.png
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    002.png
    516 x 584 - 62K
    001.png
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    Post edited by patience55 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited May 2013

    And the rest of this first set of images.

    008.png
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    007.png
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    006.png
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    Post edited by patience55 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    Problem with looking for reference images is one can get side tracked ... looking at holographic airplanes shooting chem-trails through the sky to coverup visibility of potential lens flares ... and something about a blue thing sighted, red thing to follow ... and oh yes, that's the end of the world --- what again?!

    nice dress image ... think I'll just draw one.

    Actually somewhere on the 'Net is a website of BEAUTIFUL Russian fashion dresses. Not necessarily simple to model but certainly something different from what we've already got for Genesis. One item to remember though with costumes and fashion items is that they too, as in the designs, can be, usually are, also copyrighted. So consider images references of such as "for ideas", not that one is to model their treasures "exactly" like them. And of course budding clothing designers can sketch out their own dress ideas too.

    Remember the problem areas though and so for a beginning project, let's avoid high necklines, sleeves, long skirts.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Problem with looking for reference images is one can get side tracked ... looking at holographic airplanes shooting chem-trails through the sky to coverup visibility of potential lens flares ... and something about a blue thing sighted, red thing to follow ... and oh yes, that's the end of the world --- what again?!

    nice dress image ... think I'll just draw one.

    Actually somewhere on the 'Net is a website of BEAUTIFUL Russian fashion dresses. Not necessarily simple to model but certainly something different from what we've already got for Genesis. One item to remember though with costumes and fashion items is that they too, as in the designs, can be, usually are, also copyrighted. So consider images references of such as "for ideas", not that one is to model their treasures "exactly" like them. And of course budding clothing designers can sketch out their own dress ideas too.

    Remember the problem areas though and so for a beginning project, let's avoid high necklines, sleeves, long skirts.

    The web sites of designer and sub-designer clothing clearinghouses are the artist's friend there. Search for "short dress," "high-heeled sandal," etc. on any such site and you will get umpteen results that are similar but different enough from one another to avoid copyright infringement for their designs, which also gives you an idea how to vary your own design in the same way. The best ones have big pictures and multiple views, and you won't get the end of the world pics. ;)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,160
    edited December 1969

    Problem with looking for reference images is one can get side tracked ... looking at holographic airplanes shooting chem-trails through the sky to coverup visibility of potential lens flares ... and something about a blue thing sighted, red thing to follow ... and oh yes, that's the end of the world --- what again?!

    nice dress image ... think I'll just draw one.

    Actually somewhere on the 'Net is a website of BEAUTIFUL Russian fashion dresses. Not necessarily simple to model but certainly something different from what we've already got for Genesis. One item to remember though with costumes and fashion items is that they too, as in the designs, can be, usually are, also copyrighted. So consider images references of such as "for ideas", not that one is to model their treasures "exactly" like them. And of course budding clothing designers can sketch out their own dress ideas too.

    Remember the problem areas though and so for a beginning project, let's avoid high necklines, sleeves, long skirts.

    The web sites of designer and sub-designer clothing clearinghouses are the artist's friend there. Search for "short dress," "high-heeled sandal," etc. on any such site and you will get umpteen results that are similar but different enough from one another to avoid copyright infringement for their designs, which also gives you an idea how to vary your own design in the same way. The best ones have big pictures and multiple views, and you won't get the end of the world pics. ;)

    Sounds like a good idea lol ... I do tend to find the oddest pics in the strangest of places. Then I "have to" click and see "why is that here"? ... think by now I should know better lol ... but then you know, sometimes one finds funny or truly neat things that way. Found some nifty genealogical information once about the Pharaohs while looking for something else totally unrelated. But have to say the best gen find was that snake lady. She shows up every few centuries and is beautiful. Whichever 'lucky'? man gets to marry her, has to promise never to look in on her on one night of the week. It was either Friday or Saturday. But you know men. At some point their curiosity overcomes them and they simply must look in to discover why their beautiful wife doesn't want to be seen. They shrek in horror alerting her to their presence and she flies off through the window never to be seen again ... at least for a few centuries. Suspect she's a little overdo for a show by now but hay.

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