DAZ Studio Pro BETA (4.5.2.40) Update!

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  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:

    So I'm still wondering if DS can be used natively to take a morph information from one TriAxed figure and project it onto another similar TriAxed figure.
    I remember using a different program to transfer morphs from Victoria to Simon (Poser figure) as a test. They didn't have same amount of vertexes and weren't even perfectly aligned but morph (pregnant morph, in my case) was transferred quite nicely.
    No, this functionality is not designed to do that. Further Morphs are dependent on both Vertex count and Vertex order, so adding that functionality is not trivial.
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    projecting weight mapping and transfering morphs are two very different things.

    I've been using the Transfer Util to project weight maps for a few months now, and it works fine.


    But autofit can transfer morphs from source figure to new clothes. If only we could figure how to make autofit to take M4 morphed shape as original and Genesis as "clothes" it might work.
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited April 2013

    Kattey said:

    So I'm still wondering if DS can be used natively to take a morph information from one TriAxed figure and project it onto another similar TriAxed figure.
    I remember using a different program to transfer morphs from Victoria to Simon (Poser figure) as a test. They didn't have same amount of vertexes and weren't even perfectly aligned but morph (pregnant morph, in my case) was transferred quite nicely.
    No, this functionality is not designed to do that. Further Morphs are dependent on both Vertex count and Vertex order, so adding that functionality is not trivial.

    Well, the plugin I used for this example was to transfer morphs from figure to clothes so it wasn't designed to do that either. But it worked despite different number of vertexes and completely different rigging.
    Which gave me idea to try this plugin on Genesis cr2 export.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Kattey, okay, so try this. fit V4 to Genesis with the transfer util, then fit Genesis to the new V4, and you might be able to "burn" the morphs...

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 27,847
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    Kattey said:
    wancow said:
    That's easy, Kattey. Apply your custom morph and save that to a Cr2, you can use a DAZ Studio Exported Cr2 file. Load that Cr2 into Generation X and convert.

    I refuse to buy Generation X, it is overly expensive for my purpose and never goes on sale. So it isn't "That's easy". I don't understand how people can justify to buy a such expensive plugin.
    I'm looking for an option to convert morphs with DS alone, not Gen-X.

    I felt the same way for a very long time, but finally broke down and bought Gen-X when I had a coupon. I am so glad I did. It is very easy to use and my Gen4 figures have so many morphs that I don't have currently with Genesis. I wish everyone could have built-in access to Gen-X versatility (ie, included with DS instead of purchase), but the developers deserve to be paid for their work. It really is worth the money, Kattey. Just my opinion.
    ...I'll second this. As someone who has a lot of Gen3 (Aiko/Hiro) and Gen 4 custom character and specialised morph sets, I find it essential. Yes it costs a bit, but is opens up so many more character creation possibilities.

    As to the Tri Ax to Tri Ax autofit, does this help smoothing over some of the bumps with Autofit clothing fits? How does it affect Gen-X?

    I also have Sickle Yield's Rigging and Morphing tool how is that affected?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    As to the Tri Ax to Tri Ax autofit, does this help smoothing over some of the bumps with Autofit clothing fits? How does it affect Gen-X?

    I also have Sickle Yield's Rigging and Morphing tool how is that affected?

    No effect on any of those things. However if someone makes a clone for the DAZ Horse 2 for Genesis, then you could put the horse bridle on Anubis. :bug:
  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,041
    edited December 1969

    Or Genesis clothes on Cluthu (which is a custom Tri-Ax figure as I recall).

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 607
    edited April 2013

    cwichura said:
    Or Genesis clothes on Cluthu (which is a custom Tri-Ax figure as I recall).

    Yes if someone made a clone and set it up right that would work

    Post edited by DAZ_cjones on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    DAMN! Unfortunately, I cannot download it over the WiFi or on the hardwired computers at the Livermore Public Library :(

    The DL stalls and won't start back up...

    Hopefully will get it on my friend's network later :(

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 4,860
    edited December 1969

    Installed without any issue - only had a minor look at the bits of the new features I actually understood and like the surface grouping thing - I can foresee a lot of use of a 'skin' group.
    In a fit of being stupid in an effort to make use of Nerd3D's 'footsteps' tool I tried it on a 'standard' ground prop which, I assume was not 'complex' enough toa faint voice' permit the D-formers to work correctly. Having recalled a 'faint voice' whispering about and extolling the virtues of Open SubD I decided to see if I could SubD the material enough to have the footsteps take shape correctly. Played with the SubD types as options, saw a bit of a change here and there, then fell back to the 'legacy' variant, over-rode limits and .. after a short while of 'not responding' Daz Studio collapsed with a system32 module being quoted - maybe 6 levels was a bit too much? ;)

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,041
    edited December 1969

    Keep in mind that every level of SubD quadruples the number of polygons. So unless the shape you were applying it to was very light (<1024), six levels is pretty extreme...</p>

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    wancow said:
    That's easy, Kattey. Apply your custom morph and save that to a Cr2, you can use a DAZ Studio Exported Cr2 file. Load that Cr2 into Generation X and convert.

    I refuse to buy Generation X, it is overly expensive for my purpose and never goes on sale. So it isn't "That's easy". I don't understand how people can justify to buy a such expensive plugin.
    I'm looking for an option to convert morphs with DS alone, not Gen-X.

    In PA sales october or november, I don't remember, D3D store was in sale. Marieah, Smay, 3D universe and others have several sale or fastgrab in a year, but D3D only have a chance in the year.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 8,156
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:
    Thanks folks. So for my cape which has, of course, pointed corners at the bottom the Bilinear would be the Sub-D to try??

    You probably want catmark and then set the corner/edge weights to keep the corners as sharp as you desire.

    Not sure how to do that. Are you talking about Weight Maps and if so do I set those using X Y or Z or Scale?

    No I'm talking about SubD vertex weights and edge weights. These are used to control subdivision. See the following images. There is now an additional sub tab in Tool Settings when Polygon Group Editor is selected, called "SubD Weighting" it allows a user to set the vertex weights on the edges and vertices of the currently selected faces. We know its not a great interface ( hence the [Alpha]), but it provides the bare basics to see how these features can be used to control subdivision. These weight are also import from fbx imports if the application creating the fbx supplied them (Modo 601 + does for instance)

    First image standard subdivision of a cube, no weighting.

    Second image all top edges with edge weight of 5

    Third image back edge vertices set to 4.5

    A quick note on the numbers used. This is a simplification, but it helps me understand them. You can think of the weight as the number of levels of subdivision that will occur before that vertex/edge starts to "smooth or round". So if you use 3 on a vertex for instance that vertex will stay in its cage position until the 4 level of subdivision. In between number effect the curvature of the subdivision.

    Thanks for the info.

    Now for an interesting question. What happens when you use these variations on Genesis??

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 607
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:
    Thanks folks. So for my cape which has, of course, pointed corners at the bottom the Bilinear would be the Sub-D to try??

    You probably want catmark and then set the corner/edge weights to keep the corners as sharp as you desire.

    Not sure how to do that. Are you talking about Weight Maps and if so do I set those using X Y or Z or Scale?

    No I'm talking about SubD vertex weights and edge weights. These are used to control subdivision. See the following images. There is now an additional sub tab in Tool Settings when Polygon Group Editor is selected, called "SubD Weighting" it allows a user to set the vertex weights on the edges and vertices of the currently selected faces. We know its not a great interface ( hence the [Alpha]), but it provides the bare basics to see how these features can be used to control subdivision. These weight are also import from fbx imports if the application creating the fbx supplied them (Modo 601 + does for instance)

    First image standard subdivision of a cube, no weighting.

    Second image all top edges with edge weight of 5

    Third image back edge vertices set to 4.5

    A quick note on the numbers used. This is a simplification, but it helps me understand them. You can think of the weight as the number of levels of subdivision that will occur before that vertex/edge starts to "smooth or round". So if you use 3 on a vertex for instance that vertex will stay in its cage position until the 4 level of subdivision. In between number effect the curvature of the subdivision.

    Thanks for the info.

    Now for an interesting question. What happens when you use these variations on Genesis??

    Genesis's geometry will embed in your scene/scene subset, referencing its original geometry. Your edits will be embedded with it.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Genesis's geometry will embed in your scene/scene subset, referencing its original geometry. Your edits will be embedded with it.

    So that sounds like D|S is pretty much treating original geometry the same as it did in 4.5.1.56...

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited April 2013

    wancow said:
    Kattey, okay, so try this. fit V4 to Genesis with the transfer util, then fit Genesis to the new V4, and you might be able to "burn" the morphs...

    Ok. I made it work.
    The process is different, but I transferred M4 custom morph, Zak , to Genesis, using only DS (4.5.1.6) native functions of Export/Import, Transfer Utility and Morph Loader. Now I have Zak morph in my Genepool. No external plugins whatsoever but result is pretty good at my taste.

    Picture: left is Genesis with dialed M4 head 100% (but not body), Zak 100% and David 5 native textures (regular smoothing), right is M4 with 100% Zak and default M4 textures (regular smoothing). Although I can use Zak morph without M4 head altogether on Genesis.
    I made it work.
    And it is actually quite simple.

    GM4Zaks.jpg
    960 x 884 - 252K
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited April 2013

    Most drastic shape I can find in my M4 library:
    Kemp Sparky's Leonese

    Genesis version.
    Ears are a bit off (nothing that five minutes in ZBrush can't fix) and next time I'd need to pay more attention to inner mouth (currently it is a mess but I think I know why it happened), but the general shape is working. Genesis Leonese with HFS Demonica textures. Same process. No external plugins, only Transfer Utility and Morph Loader.

    Leoness.jpg
    960 x 884 - 279K
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    I install it and work perfect. I love surface selection set.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Just to show off a bit: Genesis Leonese with native M4 textures and parented mane but in Genesis clothes (freebie Georgian by Wilmap), D5 body morph, some small additional morphs.

    Leoness-2.jpg
    575 x 884 - 246K
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 8,156
    edited December 1969

    Looks really good. Once you get all this perfected let Sparky know, might help him get this wondrous "Manimals" transferred over to Genesis.

  • PuntomausPuntomaus Posts: 450
    edited December 1969

    Kattey, would you mind writing a short tut how you've done that? I'd love to try this too.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited April 2013

    Sure. I'm using DS 4.5.1.6 build.
    I also have Iconic Gen 4 Shapes, especially important are V4 and M4 as most of the Gen 4 morphs are made for one of those two base figures.

    To convert M4 Lionese morph I did the following:
    Genesis preparation: dial M4 iconic morph (both head and body) up to 100%. Set Genesis to Base subdivision at lowest (0) subdivision level. Export as obj. I exported at 100% at 1 unit = 1cm scale. I exported with Groups (Use Existing Groups) checked but everything else unchecked. Not sure if grouping is important.

    M4 preparation. Inject Leonese (or the morph you wish to transfer) to M4. No need to dial it, just make sure that it is working. Also, open Parameters for this morph and note or write down what channel (or the inner name) that morph has. Say, Leonese injects itself into MCC_36 channels.

    It is important, I think, that M4 would not be zeroed in _pose_, as it moves his legs into different position than legs of Genesis', but all his morphs must be zeroed so you have default M4 shape.

    Convert M4 to Weight Mapped figure through Edit -> Rigging -> Convert Figure to Weight Mapping. I found that my DS crashes if I convert it to TriAx directly so I usually convert it to usual Weight Mapping first and then I convert regular Weight Mapping to TriAx.

    After that I saved my converted M4 as Support Assets->Figure/Prop asset. I'm not sure if that step is necessary because for each new morph I'd use a new Michael conversion.

    With my TriAxed M4 I import Genesis with M4 shape obj and go to Transfer Utility. I select M4 TriAx as a source, Genesis obj as a target, use Item Shape (current) for both. As Genesis had M4 dialed and M4 TriAx himself is not zeroed in pose but zeroed in morphs their shapes should be almost the same.

    Here is an important part. I click Show Options in Transfer Utility. I unclick all General Options except of Weight Maps and Morph Targets to speed up the process. Then I click on Morph Targets and on right pane, where Extended Options are, I selected Source Morphs and unselected Projection Morphs (as TriAx M4 has none anyway).
    (Second time I also used Projection Option, Use Near Vertices 1000.0%, which seems to give a slightly better result for ears.)

    It takes some time to transfer all of it as M4 still has a lot of JCMs and expressions morphs that are embedded into him from the start.
    When transfer is done, you have "clothified" Genesis fit to M4 TriAx. Unfit your new Genesis "clothes" from TriAx M4 and make a search by that channel name that morph occupied in M4, in my case MCC_36.
    (You can delete M4 TriAx by now too, it isn't important anymore)

    Transfer Utility created a bunch of Lionese morphs for neck, chest, head, eyebrows, etc but they are named by channel name, not label name. Dial all of them 100% to get the full morph. Make sure that this new Genesis sits at the Base resolution, and lowest subdivision level (0). Export the figure as obj. You don't need to save "clothified" Genesis. I suspect that saving it might actually mess something.

    You can clean up the scene entirely now. Load your base Genesis. Dial M4 morph 100% (head and body). Go to the Morph Loader PRO (it is important). Set the name for the morph and where would it go (in my case Actor->Universal->Fantasy Sci-Fi. Important part: select Reverse Deformations so you will deduct embedded M4 shape from Leonese, so you will be able to use it as a "from zero ground" morph.

    Import and you have your Leonese morph. Save as morph asset.

    With Leonese in particular the problem is teeth, tongue and inner mouth. I think because there was some scaling as well as morphing there and that part therefore doesn't translate properly. It might be solved by injecting full Leonese in original M4 and exporting/importing it back as obj into zeroed M4 so all scaling info will actually become morphing info. But my characters rarely smile wide enough for it to be a problem.

    I'm pretty sure that process can be streamlined more (I just did it in 30 minutes of tries). Maybe wancow's idea would work better.
    If you have anything to share about it, please share :)

    Just came to thought. Theoretically you can convert Generation 3 morphs too, if you have iconic shapes for them.

    PIcture: Leonese (with somewhat ZBrushed ears) with other Genesis morphs.

    Leonese-3.jpg
    605 x 884 - 111K
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,478
    edited December 1969

    A link to the archived forums that explains using Transfer Utility to transfer morphs.

    http://forumarchive.daz3d.com//viewtopic.php?t=186411&start=40

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    jestmart said:
    A link to the archived forums that explains using Transfer Utility to transfer morphs.

    http://forumarchive.daz3d.com//viewtopic.php?t=186411&start=40


    Heh, similar ideas :) I wasn't aware of that tutorial, would save me some time. Thanks for the link.
  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,309
    edited December 1969

    Kattey, I'm glad you found a solution. That's what determination and perseverance will get you.

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    jestmart said:
    A link to the archived forums that explains using Transfer Utility to transfer morphs.

    http://forumarchive.daz3d.com//viewtopic.php?t=186411&start=40


    Heh, similar ideas :) I wasn't aware of that tutorial, would save me some time. Thanks for the link.

    It demostrate that the forum as unique source of information is not ideal media.
    I post this link at least 3 or 4 times in the new forum.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    gilikshe said:
    Kattey said:
    jestmart said:
    A link to the archived forums that explains using Transfer Utility to transfer morphs.

    http://forumarchive.daz3d.com//viewtopic.php?t=186411&start=40
    Heh, similar ideas :) I wasn't aware of that tutorial, would save me some time. Thanks for the link.

    It demostrate that the forum as unique source of information is not ideal media.
    I post this link at least 3 or 4 times in the new forum.


    Maybe now people will see it more or maybe made it sticky on DS Discussion forum :)

    Kattey, I'm glad you found a solution. That's what determination and perseverance will get you.
    Thank you, Slosh :)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 44,689
    edited December 1969

    SimonJM said:
    Installed without any issue - only had a minor look at the bits of the new features I actually understood and like the surface grouping thing - I can foresee a lot of use of a 'skin' group.
    In a fit of being stupid in an effort to make use of Nerd3D's 'footsteps' tool I tried it on a 'standard' ground prop which, I assume was not 'complex' enough toa faint voice' permit the D-formers to work correctly. Having recalled a 'faint voice' whispering about and extolling the virtues of Open SubD I decided to see if I could SubD the material enough to have the footsteps take shape correctly. Played with the SubD types as options, saw a bit of a change here and there, then fell back to the 'legacy' variant, over-rode limits and .. after a short while of 'not responding' Daz Studio collapsed with a system32 module being quoted - maybe 6 levels was a bit too much? ;)

    SubD wouldn't help with using something like the Footstep tool as SubD is applied after DForms. If the DForms from the Footstep Tool leave jagged edges SubD will smooth them out, but the base mesh has to have enough resolution to let the DForms work in the first place. Remember, too, that the slider controls only the viewport level.

  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited April 2013

    FBX export.
    Scene contains one M5+2 dynamic cloth articles and an Aniblock; drape is frozen before export. The suspenders are parented to M5 but the shirt isn't (I left everything as the plug-in did).

    ASCII 2012: can't be opened by FBX Viewer 2012.2. I tried both exporting w/Morphs and without, neither file can be read by FBX Viewer.
    Binary 2012, without Morphs: everything loads, but only Genesis animates correctly, and the clothes stay put at frame 0 position. So it seems like the parenting information is lost.
    Binary 2012 with Morphs: again everything loads, and this case provides the best fit although there is some poke-through on the shoulders for example. The clothes move, but after a few frames they rotate 180 degrees Y and start walking in the opposite direction (actually they don't rotate, it's the knee bending the opposite way that convinced me they rotated, but the suspenders stay pointing towards Genesis so they aren't actually rotated). They scale rather unevenly, then turn back again and catch up with Genesis for the final frame. See the sequence in the screenshots.

    Image13.jpg
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    Image7.jpg
    654 x 519 - 106K
    Image3.jpg
    654 x 519 - 91K
    Image1.jpg
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    Typical_FBX_export_options.jpg
    1200 x 738 - 239K
    Post edited by ReDave on
  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited April 2013

    Also, about gamma, you are applying it to all textures, regardless if they are supposed to be read as a sRGB colour (Diffuse colour, ambient colour, translucency, etc.) or if it's supposed to be read as a strength map (specular strength maps come to mind here; I haven't tried transmaps yet).
    Edit: after reboot it would appear I'm wrong, actually.

    Post edited by ReDave on
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