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Comments

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited December 1969

    The thing most people who enter contests really care about is to have an opportunity to show their work.

    The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0's product, which was based on shaders native to DS. Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.

    So it's not really about the tools, it's you have to use the product as everyone else is.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 3,837
    edited December 1969

    Well I got the intention of the contest incorrect aswell, I thought it was about the product, the tights, which include shaders. I didn't realise that it was just about the shaders, I better go and remove my entry.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    Don't remove your render. The rules is this as stated in the thread

    Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form. Use of add-on packs for pantyhose are optional if you have them but is not a requirement. Can be combined with shader usage if you wish.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited April 2013

    edited

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,131
    edited December 1969

    Page 3 already? Spicy!

    Ah yes, if only the rules of the game were matched to our strengths, life would be so much easier.

    I've never won a competition in my life... correction; I've never won an art competition in my life, but I don't keep whining about it - Sometimes there's just no accounting for taste ;-P

    I just pick myself up, shake the dust off, give 'em the proverbial two-fingered salute, and marvel at how ahead of my time I must be while wasting no time in moving onto my next piece of pure brilliance.
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited April 2013

    Zev0 said:
    Don't remove your render. The rules is this as stated in the thread

    Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form. Use of add-on packs for pantyhose are optional if you have them but is not a requirement. Can be combined with shader usage if you wish.

    Zev0, but if only pantyhose could be used and it doesn't matter what shaders on them are, it doesn't matter if those are DS shaders or not, i.e. it doesn't matter what engine rendered those shaders if they aren't from original product.

    I mean, if the contest was about shaders for specific product to make render engine limitation as important as you said, then DS shaders for this product would be mandatory. If those shaders aren't mandatory and we can render only geometry of pantyhose with any sort of shader on, the reason for engine limitation is blurry. I don't understand your priorities with this content.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    The thing most people who enter contests really care about is to have an opportunity to show their work.

    The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0's product, which was based on shaders native to DS. Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.

    So it's not really about the tools, it's you have to use the product as everyone else is.


    I agree that I failed to understand what the contest was about.

    I tried to explain with my tidbit a few posts back about the product not only consisting of the "shader" but also of textures and geometry why it came to that confusion.

    Edited to remove obsolete information.

    - - -

    Again this thread does not need to keep riding around on that one specific contest.

    We still can keep talking about contests in general.


    But I can see how it is difficult to keep the general idea and the specific example appart.


    I'm still not sure I understand what prompted this thread in the first place. By your own admission you use Daz Studio to work in, which comes pre-installed with the 3Delight render engine. Thus it can't be discriminating against you, as was implied in previous posts, since you're more than capable of submitting an legal entry. If you were a Poser user, and thus only had Firefly or Luxrender available to you, I might have understood and loaned a sympathetic ear.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0's product, which was based on shaders native to DS.

    In truth, that's what pretty much every 'contest' here at DAZ is -- a marketing/promotion gimick, not really a contest. They can be fun, but I've never entered a single one because they invariably have far too many silly restrictions (the one that is the biggest show-stopper for me is the requirement to post the render to the DAZ forum thread for the contest only and nowhere else; I will never, ever upload a render to the DAZ forums).

    Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.


    As it happens, though, these shaders convert pretty well to other renderers like LuxRender, since they're still based pretty heavily on the DAZ Default Shader. One could easily twist this argument around and say that showing the ease at which the shaders are used in other tools like LuxRender is infact a bigger promotional effect for the product, as it lets folks that primarily use an external renderer know they can make good use of Sheer Greatness. Sure, they won't look exactly the same as they do in Studio, but I don't think that matters. Folks want to know if they can reasonably use the product in their renderer of choice without having to do a lot of work to shoehorn it in.

    When I saw Zev0's contest post and the first thing it said was no external renderers like LuxRender, I ignored the rest of the post and haven't even subscribed to that thread to see what all renders people come up with. It was an instant turn off. I don't use 3Delight. Restricting the contest to 3Delight only doesn't make it a "fun challenge" for me; I have zero interest in trying to learn how to light/etc for 3Delight and any render I might manage before the 15th would look like utter poo as you cannot really properly learn a renderer in only a month's time.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited April 2013

    edited.

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    edited...

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited April 2013

    cwichura said:

    In truth, that's what pretty much every 'contest' here at DAZ is -- a marketing/promotion gimick, not really a contest. They can be fun, but I've never entered a single one because they invariably have far too many silly restrictions (the one that is the biggest show-stopper for me is the requirement to post the render to the DAZ forum thread for the contest only and nowhere else; I will never, ever upload a render to the DAZ forums).


    And that's not every contest that's ever been done? Contest market something, draw attention to something, bring something to a site. Contests are done for something... always.

    And that, every contest has rules... and wouldn't think it would be silly for a site to not want their users running to another site to look at a picture and drawing website traffic there.

    cwichura said:

    As it happens, though, these shaders convert pretty well to other renderers like LuxRender, since they're still based pretty heavily on the DAZ Default Shader. One could easily twist this argument around and say that showing the ease at which the shaders are used in other tools like LuxRender is infact a bigger promotional effect for the product, as it lets folks that primarily use an external renderer know they can make good use of Sheer Greatness. Sure, they won't look exactly the same as they do in Studio, but I don't think that matters. Folks want to know if they can reasonably use the product in their renderer of choice without having to do a lot of work to shoehorn it in.

    Still you're violating contest rules by changing the product; converting to another format or renderer would fall under that. If the product had shaders for another renderer, then I can see that renderer being used in the contest. You really can't be upset because someone one wants the contest to be fair by everyone using the same product unaltered.

    When I saw Zev0's contest post and the first thing it said was no external renderers like LuxRender, I ignored the rest of the post and haven't even subscribed to that thread to see what all renders people come up with. It was an instant turn off. I don't use 3Delight. Restricting the contest to 3Delight only doesn't make it a "fun challenge" for me; I have zero interest in trying to learn how to light/etc for 3Delight and any render I might manage before the 15th would look like utter poo as you cannot really properly learn a renderer in only a month's time.

    Unforunately the product uses 3Delight-compatible shaders, so changing those shaders would not be fair to those using the product as is... which was really the point of the contest.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited April 2013

    Unforunately the product uses 3Delight-compatible shaders, so changing those shaders would not be fair to those using the product as is... which was really the point of the contest.

    Yes, but Zev0 said that shaders aren't even mandatory, it is either pantyhose and/OR shaders. So if I render just pantyhose, with my own materials in Luxis, what kind of change to original shaders do I do?

    I understand the reason for engine limitation and yes, I think 3Dlight limitation is more fair to everybody who can't spend $$ for fancy plugins but organizers of the contest have to work on wording/reasoning a bit more.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • MJ_VivianightMJ_Vivianight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    LOL but I am so hearing "Don't get your knickers in a twist!" here. ;)

    The rules of the contest currently specified are fine. It IS common to have a common denominator somewhere used as a base, and in this case we have it the render engine. As said by others, that is a great equalizer.

    Reason I am laughing so hard at all this 'hissy-fitting' is memory of a guild art contest I attempted to enter once. The topic was "Paint and Clay", rules being your entry MUST consist of one medium or both. So I did a few things, clay masks and sculptures painted up since that was my style at the time. Well, nothing was accepted by the judges which can happen. Only when it was time to return and walk the hall of the chosen...it was mostly photography. And woven reed baskets, some hanging textiles without even a clay bead in sight. Basically, no one who created anything using paint and clay even got into this focused exhibit of Paint and Clay artwork due to judge's personal whim. It 'annoyed' to say the least. ;)

    I also recall some render contests not joined (or here) which gave specific rules, the majority of folks doing their fun best to keep inside the parameters only to have the one who didn't win the contest. Judge's whim.

    Basically, there are reasonable things out there to be teeth gritting at when it comes to contests, and this is certainly not one of them.

    Cheers and get back to having fun!
    MJ out. ;)

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    edited

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited April 2013

    Zev0 said:
    I will see if we can allow that Kattey for non shader use. Will review all this later..

    What do you mean "allow"? Those are your own words that either geometry and/OR shaders must be featured. Geometry/pantyhose only renders are already allowed by rules.
    "Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form."

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    Allow as in allow another render engine for the comp for non shader use eg just pantyhose.. I will be back later..

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited April 2013

    Zev0 said:
    Allow another render engine for the comp.

    Maybe just some clarification would do?
    Like, "1. always specify your render engine (Lux, 3Dlight, Octane, etc). 2. Original shaders must only be rendered in 3Dlight. If you render only pantyhose with external shaders you can use any engine."
    or "The full main product (i.e. pantyhose AND shaders) must be used."
    I don't know, just tossing some ideas there -_-
    Please don't take this as a critisism, I'm finding your work to be very good, customer support policy (especially with Aging morphs transfers) admirable and prices nice. I just think the wording of the contest rules/intentions was a bit unclear, that is all -_-

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • JennKJennK Posts: 735
    edited December 1969

    I think the point is missed here this is his contest he can set the rules how he likes. Just like Stonemason did on his or Ken Gilliland did with his. Or any number of other contests that happen on this board or any other.

    You used car racing as an example well they all have rules they must follow engine size and power, height clearance etc if they fail to meet any of these requirements they get fined or disqualified.

    Now I don't know about everyone else but I learned to render in DAZ first with 3dlight before I ever picked up anything else.

    I have only been at this a little over a year and am still not very good but that doesn't stop me from entering a contest with restrictions and more importantly no restrictions because I know I am so far below the level of most people here that it is pointless most of the time for me to try but I do it anyway for the practice.

    I see no problem with contest restrictions and rules if you don't like the rules then don't enter. Just like if a contest comes up and I don't have what is required be it model, program or plug-in, I might be bummed but I just don't enter.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    I did specify the render engine and said Daz studio renders only, but that has upset some people.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    Just re-reading the thread I noticed its only one or two people that has an issue with the rules. That does not justify a rule change as others are happily posting. So the rules will not change for this comp. This decision is final. I will consider all these suggestions for any future comps. The reality is that the comp is already in action and I cannot change the rules.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    I just want to say I am not overly "upset". I assume most contests I can't compete in because 95% of the time they have some rule that I don't abide by. But I also understand it's their option to define the contest as they want. And you can't please everyone; you will always alienate some folks.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 2,408
    edited December 1969

    It's fairly clearcut, whoever runs the contest, sets the rules. Your choice to participate, well, that's up to you.

  • DraagonStormDraagonStorm Posts: 491
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    edited...

    I'm not even sure how to respond to the OP. A contest and it's rules are up to the person(s) hosting the contest, what ever the rules may be... They are what they are, and selected for whatever reason. No need for rhyme or reason.

    As far as the "only in DAZ Studio 4.5"... Sheer Greatness! is a DS4.5 (and above) only product. It's cool that is works (partly) in LUX or Octane, but it still was created for DS4.5, and that is the only product that it is officially supported for.

    Zev0 did the panty hose part of this product... My baby is the shader, so of course I'm more partial to that part of the product. I've done some 'comparisons' between DAZ Studio and LUX (using LuxRender) and the shader does not completely translate to LUX. (See render below) I know that in the contest you do not have to use my shader, but of course I want to see what's done with it! Since it really only works completely as intended in DS4.5, then I feel that DS4.5 should be the only product used to create the renders for this contest.

    The LUX render was a real quicky (but you can see the direction it's going) I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not rendering the same as the DAZ render. My guess is that the Inner/Outer Blend is not being picked up by LUX.

    DAZLUX.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 352K
  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0's product, which was based on shaders native to DS.

    In truth, that's what pretty much every 'contest' here at DAZ is -- a marketing/promotion gimick, not really a contest. They can be fun, but I've never entered a single one because they invariably have far too many silly restrictions (the one that is the biggest show-stopper for me is the requirement to post the render to the DAZ forum thread for the contest only and nowhere else; I will never, ever upload a render to the DAZ forums).


    How else would one submit an entry, though? It isn't realistic to expect everybody to have massive-capacity email inboxes that can handle the number of entries the average contest here gets.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2013

    -Having all entries in a single location makes judging easier.
    -Some people host images on sites that require a login to view and it complicates the process and we have to follow up and ask for a new link. -Some people host images on dodgy or untrusted sites.

    For these reasons, we prefer all entries are listed here. It makes sense also because it is directly related to the product and the site.

    However we have given some rope to this. Here is one of the rules for our comp regarding this matter-

    All submissions must be placed in this forum. (note: If the forum compression really messes up your render you may also put a link to the render somewhere else that does not compress the image.)

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,572
    edited December 1969

    Gosh a thread trying to control someone's behavior as they run a contest. Why is this such a common theme around here these days? Don't knock other people because they have goals with their contest that don't meet your own goals or requirements or ideology or what ever. If your really unhappy about someone else's choices make your own choices and run your own contest with your own rules and goals rather than trot out the negativity.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,747
    edited December 1969

    Do to the fact the original poster has left the discussion and the topic is degenerating it is time to lock this thread

This discussion has been closed.
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