(Commercial) NOW IN STORE - Sickle Rigging And Morphing System

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Comments

  • FistyFisty Posts: 1,813
    edited December 1969

    SY, do you know of any issues with 4.5 reading 4.0 scene files? I have ongoing projects that I really don't want to have to remake 'cause I pretty much have to rerender the same thing over and over with just different textures and they all have to match. Been working off the same basic scene since last spring.

  • scullygirl818scullygirl818 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Two quick questions, one, does this work directly in Poser or does everything still have to be converted via DS and exported to work in Poser?

    Also does anyone know by chance how long the sale is? I've been waiting for it to go back on sale, but I don't get paid until the 1st of May.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Fisty: I've never gotten a 4.0 scene file to work with 4.5. I think it can be done, but I don't know how.


    Scullygirl: The SRMS depends on DAZ Studio 4.5's template rigging system through the Transfer Utility. As such, there's no way to make it compatible with Poser.

  • scullygirl818scullygirl818 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    You can still though export the clothes to poser like you do with autofit though can't you, or not that either?

    Thanks

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    You can still though export the clothes to poser like you do with autofit though can't you, or not that either?

    Thanks

    Autofit doesn't export clothes to Poser, it refits Generation 4 clothes to Genesis. You can still make a DS4.5 outfit and create DSON presets for it, though. That would work.

  • scullygirl818scullygirl818 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    That's what I meant by the export when you save e duf and them convert it to Poser format within DS. Thanks, I just wanted to make sure it at least did that because I use Poser more often than DS.

    Do you know how long the sale is planned I'm guessing it might not make it until the end of the month.

    Thanks

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,535
    edited December 1969

    Fisty said:
    SY, do you know of any issues with 4.5 reading 4.0 scene files? I have ongoing projects that I really don't want to have to remake 'cause I pretty much have to rerender the same thing over and over with just different textures and they all have to match. Been working off the same basic scene since last spring.

    Not to interrupt, but what exactly are you trying to do? I've never had problems opening 4.0 .DAZ files in 4.5; they do have to be saved out as .DUF, but that's not a surprise. On the other hand, if you're talking about reading a .DAZ scene into a .DUF scene, that can be ... wildly inconsistent, let's say.

    And, just for the heck of it: below, two items both converted with SRMS. One is the Dark World Mourning Sun skirt for M4 (now that I can use it on Genesis, a surprising number of men are wearing divided skirts this season), and the other is a an old PC item redone for V4 by Andolaurina, with Wendy/Pusey Designs' lace shaders for Fabricator. I wound up having to put the FMGsuit underneath the dress, and then used Fisty's Sparkles on it, because otherwise the dress was translucent, and, well, Abeje does not roll that way at her own wedding. Or possibly ever. (Although, if "Say Yes To The Dress" can be believed, a surprising number of people do.) (While Abeje managed to persuade her fiancee to wear his formal skirt for the wedding, she's not entirely sure about his undercarriage. And she's not asking, neither.)

    ballroomqueenwedding-abeje-stoltz-02.png
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  • FistyFisty Posts: 1,813
    edited December 1969

    vwrangler said:
    Not to interrupt, but what exactly are you trying to do? I've never had problems opening 4.0 .DAZ files in 4.5; they do have to be saved out as .DUF, but that's not a surprise. On the other hand, if you're talking about reading a .DAZ scene into a .DUF scene, that can be ... wildly inconsistent, let's say.

    Just wanting to open a regular scene file I saved in DS 4.0.3 in DS 4.5.*, it has two prop .objs, a couple of primitives, some regular distant lights and an uber environment light. It doesn't need to keep the EU light either since I'm taking it into reality.

    I'm probably better off just remaking it in Poser and saving it since I just got reality 3 for poser and I know poser x number of versions down the line will still open the scene file without issues.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited April 2013

    That's what I meant by the export when you save e duf and them convert it to Poser format within DS. Thanks, I just wanted to make sure it at least did that because I use Poser more often than DS.

    Do you know how long the sale is planned I'm guessing it might not make it until the end of the month.

    Thanks

    It's my entire store that is on sale, but I don't know quite for how long (Kevin did tell me, but I'm having a hard time remembering). I'm wanting to say one or two weeks from the release of the Dirty Denim set (so no longer than the 28th but maybe ending on the 14th).


    Also, P.S.: No, it's Ds3.0 files that I couldn't get it to open, sorry. I've been merging in the same Ds4.0 light set for my roleplay renders for a while now.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 1,813
    edited December 1969

    Okay, great, thanks guys! =)

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited April 2013

    Fisty said:
    Just wanting to open a regular scene file I saved in DS 4.0.3 in DS 4.5.*, it has two prop .objs, a couple of primitives, some regular distant lights and an uber environment light. It doesn't need to keep the EU light either since I'm taking it into reality.

    What you describe I don't think will be an issue. Since you mention Reality, when you first open the .daz in 4.5, make sure to invoke Reality so it converts its metadata to the format required for .duf and THEN save out the .duf version of the scene. If you immediately save the .duf without invoking Reality first, you will lose your custom Reality settings.

    The only problems I've had opening .daz in 4.5 is that sometimes Genesis gets "broken". There were a bunch of posts about this back when 4.5 was first released. It looks ok the first time, but when you reload the .duf, Genesis is a mess. You have to delete the Genesis figure and load a new one, then copy over the surface settings, etc. But that's a one-time affair, and you said your base scene doesn't have a figure in it, anyway.

    I have also encountered one Poser-style prop items that caused problems the first time they were loaded. (E.g., left and right versions of an object that Studio must have seen the same internal name for, as it made the left be in the same place as the right one). Again, deleting and re-adding the offending object fixed it. But for all the content I own, having only one item exhibit this tells me its a bug in the item, not in Studio in general.

    When 4.5 was first released, there were a bunch of serious bugs in .duf writing/reading. But DAZ was very responsive to fixing those. I only have two outstanding .duf file handling bugs logged against 4.5.1.56, neither of which is severe: 48991 and 49068

    Post edited by cwichura on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 1,813
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for all that info, that makes me feel a lot better. It's an on going work project and the main thing that's been holding me back on switching to 4.5. The props I made myself, they are two of the same obj imported so I may have the problem you did with them being in the same place. I guess I can just write down all the trans and rot settings before I do the switch over just in case. I'd be happy to get back into the clothing making, I have a genesis outfit 3/4 done that I will rerig using this awesome utility. I'm sure it will come out better than I was getting with the default auto rigging and a lot of swearing in 4.0

    Here's the scene in question.. nothing special, but it all has to be consistent from one design release to the next. I haven't done any fancy postwork on the lux renders yet.

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Ooo, cool. And the shaders do look awesome.

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 1,789
    edited April 2013

    Hi, I've been experimenting with transferring V4 clothes to Genesis using this product, however I have a couple of small problems/questions:
    I started with the 1930s Everyday Dress, whose skirt stretches rather badly in autofit.
    First I tried the Transfer Utility method in the user manual. I found that transfer using "CloneVictoria4" still had stretching in the skirt. Nevertheless I saved as a Figure/Prop Asset, deleted from the scene and reloaded the saved .duf, as the manual says.
    Next I tried transfer as "Morph" then selected from the list "Victoria 4" (I presume that is right?), clicked on the box to reverse source shape from target then clicked "Accept" and the result was a quite good-looking dress on the Genesis Base shape, except that the V4 shape was still in the dress (not the flat-chested result that transfer using "Clone" produced) - should this happen? Again I saved the dress as a Figure/Prop Asset, deleted and reloaded and still it had the V4 shape - I had to display hidden morphs and apply -100% to FBMVictoria4 - should this be necessary?
    I then shaped both Genesis figures to a female shape and noticed that the "Clone" created version is less figure-hugging than the "Morph" one round the breasts - I wondered why this happens?
    The pictures show the "Clone" version on the left and the "Morph" version on the right - I put a gingham texture on the dresses as this shows any stretching quite well.
    I'd appreciate any help/comments from someone with more experience in transferring Gen4 clothing,
    Thanks - Melanie.
    ETA: Must mention that (apart from these minor queries) I've been really impressed - compared to just autofit, it did a wonderful job on the Elaia dress for example.

    30sEverydayDress-Transfers-S.jpg
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    30sEverydayDress-Transfers-F.jpg
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    Post edited by MelanieL on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited April 2013

    No, that should not happen with the FBM, and I'm not sure why it's happening to you. You can go back a bit in the thread for yet a third method that can reduce distortion yet further on skirts.


    The reason for the difference between "morph" and "clone" is that the program is literally referring to two different and non-identical saved pieces of geometry, one that it registers as the V4 clone and one that is the Genesis V4 morph.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • ArkathanArkathan Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, LadyChance!
    You've just opened up a whole lot of conversions!

    I was just about to go through and manually rig the sash and tassels.
    Saved me some work!

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  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,151
    edited December 1969

    Here's something rather off the wall.

    What happens if someone tries to apply this system to a garment which is Poser dynamic?

    Yes, I know that Poser dynamic clothing's native file type is of a prop not a character. I'm assuming that it could be saved out as an .obj or something.

    *Could* one bring the geometry in and re-rig it as a conforming item from scratch?

    And, yes, I know that in most cases there's no point to it since the dynamic function is the whole point of the garment. But there are a few out there, that I'm not convinced *need* to be dynamic.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited April 2013

    JOdel said:
    Here's something rather off the wall.

    What happens if someone tries to apply this system to a garment which is Poser dynamic?

    Yes, I know that Poser dynamic clothing's native file type is of a prop not a character. I'm assuming that it could be saved out as an .obj or something.

    *Could* one bring the geometry in and re-rig it as a conforming item from scratch?

    And, yes, I know that in most cases there's no point to it since the dynamic function is the whole point of the garment. But there are a few out there, that I'm not convinced *need* to be dynamic.

    Well, do you already have it? Try it. You need to convert prop to figure and figure to TriAx first, but then it should be at least worth a try. It's not like the system uses the original face grouping anyway.


    I'm'a go get one of those pretty V3 nighties and see if it works.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 1,789
    edited December 1969

    No, that should not happen with the FBM, and I'm not sure why it's happening to you. You can go back a bit in the thread for yet a third method that can reduce distortion yet further on skirts.


    The reason for the difference between "morph" and "clone" is that the program is literally referring to two different and non-identical saved pieces of geometry, one that it registers as the V4 clone and one that is the Genesis V4 morph.


    Thanks, I'll go back and take a look.
    I don't know why the "morph"/"clone" thiing is happening either - I'll try again and see if I missed anything in the instructions.

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,151
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Here's something rather off the wall.

    What happens if someone tries to apply this system to a garment which is Poser dynamic?

    Yes, I know that Poser dynamic clothing's native file type is of a prop not a character. I'm assuming that it could be saved out as an .obj or something.

    *Could* one bring the geometry in and re-rig it as a conforming item from scratch?

    And, yes, I know that in most cases there's no point to it since the dynamic function is the whole point of the garment. But there are a few out there, that I'm not convinced *need* to be dynamic.

    Well, do you already have it? Try it. You need to convert prop to figure and figure to TriAx first, but then it should be at least worth a try. It's not like the system uses the original face grouping anyway.


    I'm'a go get one of those pretty V3 nighties and see if it works.

    No, don't have the item I was thinking of in particular -- a Gates of Hell medieval dress which has been on Rendo for a year or two. I doubt that anyone could make it sit gracefully, but for standing or walking poses it ought not to be *that* impossible of a conversion.

    Of course there are also some of Arki's gorgeous V4 things, but I suspect that most of those are the kind of things that being dynamic is the whole *point*.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    JOdel said:
    Here's something rather off the wall.

    What happens if someone tries to apply this system to a garment which is Poser dynamic?

    Yes, I know that Poser dynamic clothing's native file type is of a prop not a character. I'm assuming that it could be saved out as an .obj or something.

    *Could* one bring the geometry in and re-rig it as a conforming item from scratch?

    And, yes, I know that in most cases there's no point to it since the dynamic function is the whole point of the garment. But there are a few out there, that I'm not convinced *need* to be dynamic.

    Well, do you already have it? Try it. You need to convert prop to figure and figure to TriAx first, but then it should be at least worth a try. It's not like the system uses the original face grouping anyway.


    I'm'a go get one of those pretty V3 nighties and see if it works.

    The real benefit to dynamics is properly generating folds and wrinkles for a given pose as well as draping with gravity. For optimum results you should really sim the item zeroed to at least get some cloth folds in there before trying to rig it as a conformer.

    No, don't have the item I was thinking of in particular -- a Gates of Hell medieval dress which has been on Rendo for a year or two. I doubt that anyone could make it sit gracefully, but for standing or walking poses it ought not to be *that* impossible of a conversion.

    Of course there are also some of Arki's gorgeous V4 things, but I suspect that most of those are the kind of things that being dynamic is the whole *point*.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,535
    edited December 1969

    MelanieL said:
    Hi, I've been experimenting with transferring V4 clothes to Genesis using this product, however I have a couple of small problems/questions:
    I started with the 1930s Everyday Dress, whose skirt stretches rather badly in autofit.
    First I tried the Transfer Utility method in the user manual. I found that transfer using "CloneVictoria4" still had stretching in the skirt. Nevertheless I saved as a Figure/Prop Asset, deleted from the scene and reloaded the saved .duf, as the manual says.
    Next I tried transfer as "Morph" then selected from the list "Victoria 4" (I presume that is right?), clicked on the box to reverse source shape from target then clicked "Accept" and the result was a quite good-looking dress on the Genesis Base shape, except that the V4 shape was still in the dress (not the flat-chested result that transfer using "Clone" produced) - should this happen? Again I saved the dress as a Figure/Prop Asset, deleted and reloaded and still it had the V4 shape - I had to display hidden morphs and apply -100% to FBMVictoria4 - should this be necessary?

    I think there's something off about the construction of the 1930s Everyday Dress. I tried ordinary autofit, SRMS with clone, SRMS with Morph, and Wancow's OBJ export method, and the dress deforms at least a little with all four methods. I'm not sure why.

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 1,727
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Here's something rather off the wall.

    What happens if someone tries to apply this system to a garment which is Poser dynamic?

    Yes, I know that Poser dynamic clothing's native file type is of a prop not a character. I'm assuming that it could be saved out as an .obj or something.

    *Could* one bring the geometry in and re-rig it as a conforming item from scratch?

    And, yes, I know that in most cases there's no point to it since the dynamic function is the whole point of the garment. But there are a few out there, that I'm not convinced *need* to be dynamic.

    YES. I have brought in Poser dynamic OBJ files and rigged them with SY system. YES it works brilliantly :) However if not made to fit genesis first you will have to make it fit via scaling/positioning/smoothing, export and save as a new obj, and then bring that new obj back in and then rig it.

    But yes we can finally use Poser dynamic obj clothing now. ^^ hurray!

  • assmonkeyassmonkey Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Question for you SY.

    Alright, friend is looking for a gimp plug-in (which I bloody told him that there isn't one) and if there was, someone on the daz forum would've already posted about it. And goes and tell me, "not true, if someone did make it, it would be illegal and have to get a license" and all that crap.

    As someone who made this plug-in, did you have to license anything to make it or put up for purchase?

    Oh, here, I'll copy & paste what he said over email.

    Not necessarily. Remember what I said about Liscensing.
    It's all a matter of who, not what, when, or where.

    You know what a troll is, correct? Well out there are a few I like to call oppTrolls, or opposites of trolls. Basically I'm referring to people who take things seriously and devote time to scouring the internet and reporting things that break rules.

    If one were to make a working Gimp plug-in, and were to do so by altering a Daz liscense for plug-ins, it's technically considered forgery, and as such can't be legally handed out over the web, unless the creator were to first gain Daz's consent to alter the plugin data. But if that were so and a Gimp plug-in were to be made and legally distributed, it would cost a good bit, since Gimp is always updating and such.

    So, simply put, even if one does exist, it will not be easy to find nor advertised across the web. It'd be kept secret and would have to be distributed 'through the grapevine', per se. People can only get things like that by having connections.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    What was the actual question there?

  • assmonkeyassmonkey Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    About making a plugin.

    He's saying stuff you need permission to even make a plugin in the 1st place.

    Did you just up and make your plugin as you wished, or what did you do?

  • Agent_UnawaresAgent_Unawares Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ..What the what? There's no reason DAZ wouldn't be glad to add a bridge to GIMP plugin to their collection, if someone had made it. And it's DAZ's code to begin with, so there wouldn't be any hairy distribution issues, the person who tweaked the code would just have to send it over to DAZ and everyone could get it just like the Photoshop Bridge.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    The new EULA makes it explicitly allowed to do things like plugins as long as they can't be used without DAZ Studio. I'm sure a GIMP bridge would be welcomed.

  • assmonkeyassmonkey Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Good to know, I can send him this link and saying he's spouting BS.

    Now...to see if I can find someone that can make a GIMP plug-in. It's a mystery on why one hasn't even been made, aside from the fact of it updating a bit (which I think it's in the stage of it getting maybe 1 update a yer now)

  • assmonkeyassmonkey Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    And how did you even start making your plug-in?

    Was their a tool or tutorial you looked at? Or were you already...plugin savvy to begin with?

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