RAMWolff's SuperSuit creation thread.....

245

Comments

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 1,597
    edited December 1969

    I'm glad you found a solution. I'm still surprised that, if you have material groups available in Daz, that you can't get them to show as polygroups in ZBrush. I don't think I've run into that before, but then most things I port over to ZBrush already have UVs. It's one of the first things I make after modeling something in ZB.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Yea, not sure what causes that. I'll figure it out one of these days! lol

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited April 2013

    Moving forward quite a bit. Ended up remeshing and got the suit looking the right way. Took the hands and feet off and got a nice clean remesh that had no spiraling so making different zones a joy. Made some boots, gloves and masks with other parts to make this a "Super Suit" for Genesis.

    Now I'm working on the cape. I got most of the movement morphs done but in ZBrush but I can't seem to figure out how to make a mirrored version of this one morph that I want to look exact as a mirror.

    I did try to mirror it in the Deformation panel but when I apply the morph in DAZ Studio it pushes the cape inside out and then puts the Left side of the morph again. Since it's supposed to be a Right side morph not what I'm really after! lol

    So I must be doing something wrong! Any help in getting a mirrored morph for the cape>>

    Thanks for the help! :coolgrin:

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    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    One comment -- from the mesh views you've shown, this suit looks like it will perform badly on female figures with breasts dialed up from default. (And I'm not talking about the crazy ginormous "breast expansion" crap you see so much of on deviantArt. I'm talking breasts you can actually find on real women, albeit with some plastic involved. Something like .85 size .5 implant, for example.) This issue is you have a simple rank of quads across the chest area. To support female figures, there really needs to be more of the concentric circles pattern that genesis itself has. I see this time and again with content in the store here that performs very badly, even stuff intended for female figures, because of the rank of quads topology.

    Now, if you never intend this for female figures, feel free to completely ignore me. But I think I saw in one post you said you were thinking to use this as a base starting point for making future clothing, so in that case, it might be worth the flexibility of fixing the chest topology.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    It will be easy enough to create a different bodysuit for female figures so I'm not worried about it. I don't tend to support the female figure since most merchants and freebie makers mostly support the female form. Just look at Renderosity, 90% of the content sold there now is all for V4. So I have a bit of a beef with that stance so I'm mostly into supporting the male form. If I get around to doing a female bodysuit it will be to create looks from the Legion of Super Heroes like Saturn Girl, Phantom Girl and Shrinking Violet as well as Dawnstar. Those 4 are high on my bucket list.

    Thanks for the heads up and your observations. Very much appreciated!

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,725
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    One comment -- from the mesh views you've shown, this suit looks like it will perform badly on female figures with breasts dialed up from default. (And I'm not talking about the crazy ginormous "breast expansion" crap you see so much of on deviantArt. I'm talking breasts you can actually find on real women, albeit with some plastic involved. Something like .85 size .5 implant, for example.) This issue is you have a simple rank of quads across the chest area. To support female figures, there really needs to be more of the concentric circles pattern that genesis itself has. I see this time and again with content in the store here that performs very badly, even stuff intended for female figures, because of the rank of quads topology.

    Now, if you never intend this for female figures, feel free to completely ignore me. But I think I saw in one post you said you were thinking to use this as a base starting point for making future clothing, so in that case, it might be worth the flexibility of fixing the chest topology.

    There's a reason why most, if not all clothing use rows and columns of quads. It's the best mesh for sending to Daz Studio. Daz does not like N-Gons. It likes four-sided polygons. Any polygon more than four points does funky things to the mesh in Daz Studio. Therefore, it is always best to make sure your mesh is made up of all quads.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Oh, by the way, this is my "Big Barda" morph. Still perfecting it when I get more time. As you can see the SimpleSuit fits her just fine. I did add a "Push Modifier" but set it to a paltry 0.1.00 which took care of the few poke throughs that occurred, yes, around the breasts and there were a couple in the back shoulder area. Wireframe screen shot below. Click it for larger view.

    SimpleSuit-BigBardaMorph.jpg
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  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    There's a reason why most, if not all clothing use rows and columns of quads. It's the best mesh for sending to Daz Studio. Daz does not like N-Gons. It likes four-sided polygons. Any polygon more than four points does funky things to the mesh in Daz Studio. Therefore, it is always best to make sure your mesh is made up of all quads.

    I wasn't suggesting the use of N-Gons. Just in the layout of the quads around the breasts. I specifically mentioned the concentric circles that Genesis has itself in that area, which are all made of quads.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,725
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    There's a reason why most, if not all clothing use rows and columns of quads. It's the best mesh for sending to Daz Studio. Daz does not like N-Gons. It likes four-sided polygons. Any polygon more than four points does funky things to the mesh in Daz Studio. Therefore, it is always best to make sure your mesh is made up of all quads.

    I wasn't suggesting the use of N-Gons. Just in the layout of the quads around the breasts. I specifically mentioned the concentric circles that Genesis has itself in that area, which are all made of quads.
    Unless you're making form-fitting armor (or a bra), you don't want the garment to take the exact shape of the breasts, you want it to stretch or drape across them. Therefore, using concentric circles is not what you want on any garment, not even a tight bodysuit. You use a mesh made up of rows and columns of quads.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited April 2013

    I found while learning the ZBrush processes is that if I mask an area and then blur the mask a couple of times and then do a "Remesh" it will put more poly's in the masked area so I'll try that with the bodysuit pec/breast area of the bodysuit and see how that looks.

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,128
    edited December 1969

    If you read Blondie9999's tutorial

    http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-rigging-in-daz-studio-4-pro

    you will see that she tells you to make the breast area out of concentric circles.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited April 2013

    Yes, I have her tutorials, both actually. I don't think she works in ZBrush so not sure if what she's teaching in the tutorial is something I'll be able to replicate in ZBrush. I only use ZBrush and DAZ Studio to produce my clothing. Hex crashes too easily on me so it's not an option for now. Perhaps when DAZ does another update for the program and perhaps builds it as a 64 bit app it might be more stable on my system. ZBrush is only 32bit but rarely crashes! To add, ZBrush has a backup so if the program crashes it will offer to load up where you left off when you next start ZBrush, very handy feature! Saved my bacon a couple of times!

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • ChronopunkChronopunk Posts: 155
    edited December 1969

    As a long-time fan of the LOSH, I'm really excited to see what you end up with as your final result on this project.

    When you figure the capes out, you should work on Brainy's lab coat. ;)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Another area I need to learn... how to make lapels and buttons'

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Been extrememly busy learning rigging and weight mapping. Can't say it's my favorite thing to do but it DOES allow the end user to actually make use of these clothing figures I'm making!

    :P

    Probably the hardest thing, believe it or not, is the cape. Unless your using a parented prop cape with morphs then it's all about rigging but just as importantly "weight mapping" must be mastered. What I found with using the transfer utility is that getting the cape conformed to Genesis was not an issue but posing the cape and applying morphs turned out to be a mess. (Image #1 shows the cape conformed to a morphed Mr. Hyde, not pretty)

    So what I had to do was to make my own rig and quite a few fix morphs. I've only gotten fix morphs completed for the 7 Bruno body shapes as well as the 3 Muscle shapes and a few top cape fixes like "BackOut", "FrontFix" and "TopFix". Not done the Default male or female shapes for Genesis nor any of the other generational shapes. Those will come in time.

    So the modified rig was leaving just a few of the bones from the transfer in place (neck, l and r collar and shoulder and chest) then removed all the other bones and added in 3 more bones called Cape 1 -3. Got those all in order and then to the next thing..... Weight Mapping. Seems easy enough in the beginning.... paint some red over areas and smooth it out to get a nice smooth transition (using the Ctrl key and brushing). Well most of it was easy like that but getting the top and front straps of the cape from sinking into Genesis when posed was NOT fun! (Image 2 & 3, hover over each image for the name, which explains what's happening)

    When your dealing with X, Y and Z as well as Positive and Negative space (which I'm still learning about) you have ALLOT of areas to brush and test for EACH and EVERY area your working on. Since it was the Neck, lShoulder, rShoulder, lCollar, rCollar and Chest I was needing to figure out how to get fixed, you can well imagine how boggled my mind was.

    But I'm getting there! The last two images show the process and then the cape mostly fixed. Still have a little more work to do on the front but it's coming along. What you see in the last image also is the capes morphs are actually produced using the bones and weight mapping, none of my morphs are used. :-)

    WeightMappingCape-Pose.jpg
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    WeightMapping-Getting_the_hang_of_it.jpg
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    CapeAfterReleasingAdjustmentDial.jpg
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    CapeBeforeReleasingAdjustmentDial.jpg
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    MrHyde-NoScale-CapeSmoosh.jpg
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  • SloshSlosh Posts: 1,597
    edited December 1969

    I've been wondering how this was going for you, but couldn't find the thread until now. It's looking really good! By the time you are finished, you will have a great bodysuit to work from.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Slosh. It will be up for everyone to use when it's all finished. Might be a while longer but it will be released.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Trying to squash some Duplicate ID issue in the cape that's cropped up now. SickleYield has advised me to get things on the road to recovery

    SickleYield:

    Copy the data files to /daz 3d/tools/projection templates/ and the main file to daz/3d/projection templates, which makes the broken one a template. Rerig the base mesh from scratch through Transfer Utility and the new template(it should add the morphs as well). See if it still is broken.

    Me:

    Still working on the rig and weight mapping so don’t really want to mess with that just now. The issue is I don’t know if it’s the main loading .duf file or if it’s one of the morph files it’s reading. I’ve tried everything to locate the issue and I keep running into a wall.

    SickleYield: Very easy to check that specific thing. Cut and paste the Morphs folder from data files to the desktop, reload Studio and the item, and see if the error is still there.

    Me: That worked so I guess this is one of the many morphs I've made for the cape. Lovely! lol

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    You can tell which by copying them over one at a time so that there's only one morph in that folder on each try.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Finally home from the gym and errands. So has this happened to you SY?? Your like me in that you like to include allot of morphs so I can well imagine, if you have experienced this, you must have been venting a bit! lol

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Finally home from the gym and errands. So has this happened to you SY?? Your like me in that you like to include allot of morphs so I can well imagine, if you have experienced this, you must have been venting a bit! lol

    Yes, yes it has. I would say I've seen almost every error you can conceive of involved with morphing or morph loading, but I'm afraid that would result in a spontaneous rash of new ones. :D

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Well, GD'it, 24 of the 25 morphs for the cape are throwing Dup ID errors. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :coolmad:

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,164
    edited December 1969

    I downloaded some 4.5 morphs [really nice btw] that were free ... they also throw up the same type of dup messages in 4.5 as yours are.

    ? why but is there any chance that it's because the morphs carry the same name as anything else in the contents? Just a thought, I haven't had time yet to track it down precisely.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Not sure at this point. Trust me when I say I've combed each .duf file and can't see what the issue is. One thing was ONE of the morphs was NOT throwing the Dup ID error so used that as a template and well... there was no issue in the basic lines at the top and bottom of each file so the ID issue might be coded in all the gobbledegook numbers throughout the rest of the files. No way can I even try to figure that mess out. SO..........

    I'm just going through the very long process of loading one morph at a time back into the morphs folder for the SuperCape, loading the cape and ignoring the DUP ID message, dialing up the morph fully, exporting that using the GoZ bridge to ZBrush and actually making a few more tweaks to the morph and exporting it out as an obj under a different name. Killing the current DS session, throwing out the old version of the morph, bring in the updated cape, use the Morph Loader basic and bringing in the updated morph and resaving the cape every time. I only have 22 more to go! *GROAN* :sick:

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Sometimes it's all you can do.


    Remember that you can load multiple morphs at once via the Morph Loader Pro provided you remember to set the settings for each.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,164
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    ... edit ... use the Morph Loader basic and bringing in the updated morph and resaving the cape every time. I only have 22 more to go! *GROAN* :sick:

    ? maybe it's the hour, but somehow this doesn't sound like a solution. If you keep resaving the cape, won't the morphs go "poof"?
    You can certainly load a cape and save many morphs one at a time using the ML basic.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,725
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    ... edit ... use the Morph Loader basic and bringing in the updated morph and resaving the cape every time. I only have 22 more to go! *GROAN* :sick:

    ? maybe it's the hour, but somehow this doesn't sound like a solution. If you keep resaving the cape, won't the morphs go "poof"?
    You can certainly load a cape and save many morphs one at a time using the ML basic.

    I think what he's trying to do is find the bad morph by test loading each one one at a time to see which one causes the "issue" when it's loaded. It's kind of like when you test a string of Christmas lights with a bad bulb that shuts the whole string down, by removing each, one at a time, and replacing it until you find the right one.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    ... edit ... use the Morph Loader basic and bringing in the updated morph and resaving the cape every time. I only have 22 more to go! *GROAN* :sick:

    ? maybe it's the hour, but somehow this doesn't sound like a solution. If you keep resaving the cape, won't the morphs go "poof"?
    You can certainly load a cape and save many morphs one at a time using the ML basic.

    Nope. When you resave the cape each time a new morph.duf file is created for each new morph you add to the cape. So the Morphs folder slowly gets populated as your going along.

    I think what happened with the Dup ID issue was I was testing my new rig and weight mapping and resaved quite a few instances and would take the Morphs folder and drop it into each one of the "project" data file folders. That's all I can think of at this point as to WHAT caused most of my morphs to turn up with Dup ID issues. A week ago all was fine so it's gotta be that 'cause last week I was working off and on on the rig and weight maps.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,164
    edited April 2013

    Xposting ... ;-)

    alright ... the morphs are saved ... individually that you can still control them?

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,286
    edited December 1969

    Sometimes it's all you can do.


    Remember that you can load multiple morphs at once via the Morph Loader Pro provided you remember to set the settings for each.

    Tried that but for some odd reason that crashes DAZ Studio when I tried that before.

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