What Is Going On With Carrara?

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  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 637
    edited December 1969

    Doing a howie scene, already stressed :)

    The result is much less stressful, but maybe not for your computer - it's doing all the heavy lifting with Howie's attempts to max everything out. :)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,571
    edited December 1969

    For those who haven't visited the Animation forum:
    Sub7th made this video, the 3d portions of which are 90% Carrara, 10% Cinema 4D r11
    Belles Wake - Penelope


    Is Sub7th still posting? I rarely leave the Carrara forum.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Anything you hear from any user is pure speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt. Only go by what DAZ 3D says.

    LMAO, sorry Frank, couldn't read that with out laughing. Yes, I'm going to quote that yet again.

    "DAZ 3D is close to another beta build for Carrara 8.5 and here is the list of changes since the last one."
    "This build will be out in a few days."
    Jul 27, 2012

    Never got it.
    So much for what DAZ says.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,364
    edited February 2013

    Well they didn't specify how many days a few was. :coolgrin:

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Well they didn't specify how many days a few was. :coolgrin:

    Yes, and that is one of many examples of why I have little faith in anything DAZ says.
    I am right more often in my assumptions then DAZ is in their announcements.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    chohole said:
    Well they didn't specify how many days a few was. :coolgrin:

    Yes, and that is one of many examples of why I have little faith in anything DAZ says.
    I am right more often in my assumptions then DAZ is in their announcements.

    Maybe DAZ goes by that bible verse, "a day is as a thousand years..."

    As much as I like getting drunk on Dartanbeck's enthusiasm, I do completely relate with ManStan's concerns. I really wish DAZ would speak-up more often. Sure, you might want to hold your cards close to your chest -- but at least say something.

    Software ship dates slip. Hey, I worked for Microsoft, I know all about that. But at least there is an announcement like, "Ooops! We goofed and we're not going to make that date after all. Sorry!"

    To get essentially nothing out of DAZ (at least until Spooky showed up again...as mysteriously as the namesake...) is downright disrespectful.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Maybe DAZ goes by that bible verse, "a day is as a thousand years..."

    Either that or they're using Venutian Days (1 day is 243 days long).

    A little legitimate information would be appreciated.
    If they've run into a roadblock or having some other kind other issue, they should just say so.

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    Garstor said:
    Maybe DAZ goes by that bible verse, "a day is as a thousand years..."

    Either that or they're using Venutian Days (1 day is 243 days long).

    A little legitimate information would be appreciated.
    If they've run into a roadblock or having some other kind other issue, they should just say so.

    Agreed. But they don't normally provide any information so I'm not exactly surprised.

  • WoolyloachWoolyloach Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    And the DAZites wailed, lo Bryce is dead, let us mourn and bury him.
    Silence came forth from the House of DAZ.. and yet..
    LO! Bryce lived, and was updated!
    The DAZites rejoiced in new features and revelled in the streets.

    Then the DAZites wailed, lo Carrara is dead, let us mourn and bury him.
    Silence came forth from the House of Daz, but for a vague date..
    And the DAZites wondered, and prophesied, and used the BETA.

    No man knows the hour of the next release of Carrara, only DAZ.
    And still silence comes forth...

    %-P ;-P

    I keep coming back to Carrara for a lot of things. As-is it has it's uses, especially since I don't use Genesis stuff at all. The worst I can say is that I can crash it regularly by pushing the particle systems into overload, but heck, the only app I've used that I couldn't crash on particles was Houdini (and you can''t use the $99 version commercially). I guess it's a love/hate thing... :red:

  • BlumBlumShubBlumBlumShub Posts: 1,030
    edited December 1969

    Imagine the fantastic art we'd have if people used the current version instead of whining about the next.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Imagine the fantastic art we'd have if people used the current version instead of whining about the next.

    Imagine the beautiful dynamic clothing animations I could have done, if DAZ hadn't borked collada and left it that way with no intention of fixing it.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    No man knows the hour of the next release of Carrara, only DAZ.
    And still silence comes forth...

    Ha! Beautiful! :lol:

    I rather liked tsarist's Venusian days too.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 974
    edited February 2013

    I haven't seen this mentioned any where in the Carrara forum, of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been mentioned since I haven't had adequate lurk time over the past few weeks, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

    When DAZ ran their best DAZ Originals sellers of 2012 sale - Carrara was one of them. Now I don't know if it ended up there simply because it is the only software they sell, but it was on the list. If it was indeed one of their best sellers, I'd think that Carraras future should be pretty bright. But, I'm one of those optimists that tends to try to find the good in things.

    Even being an optimist, I can honestly say that it seems as if DAZ has self inflicted more wounds to their feet in the past year or so than I have ever seen them do before. The silence on the release of Carrara could well fit into the wounded feet category. However, as many have already stated, I would rather have the release be delayed than pushed out the door prematurely.

    For me, having Genesis fully functional in Carrara is a big deal, both because I like to use Genesis, and it shows a very real effort by DAZ to keep Carrara as a viable product within their overall business plan. There are other improvements to 8.5 that also indicate DAZ is not simply sitting back and doing nothing to improve Carrara other than content handling. Sure, these improvements may not be as much as we all would like, but there is still a real indication that they want to keep moving Carrara forward.

    DAZ has undertaken some huge new projects over the past year, and no doubt the resources allocated to the development of Carrara have been stretched quite thin, and in some cases may have been used to complete other projects where the time and resources required were grossly underestimated (this is all personal opinion and conjecture on my part) . But, even with all the new products, new web site, and the self inflicted confusion/chaos, DAZ has continued to give a bit of attention to Carrara. I take it as a good sign that Carrara is moving forward, with a bit of reserved optimism due to their propensity for shooting themselves in the foot.

    That's just my 2 cents, now I'll just go back into lurk mode.

    PS: Dart - I really want some of what your taking, your just having way too much fun!!!

    Post edited by DustRider on
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    dustrider said:
    PS: Dart - I really want some of what your taking, your just having way too much fun!!!

    Rumour has it that the government is banning it soon... :lol:

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,942
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    dustrider said:
    PS: Dart - I really want some of what your taking, your just having way too much fun!!!

    Rumour has it that the government is banning it soon... :lol:

    Perhaps, but not in Wisconsin! ;)

    Carrara just fills me with bliss. I mean, let me put it to you all like this:
    Have you ever opened up Carrara and just tried to do something cool?
    Worked, didn't it?!!!

    Carrara 8.5 ROCKS!!!

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    dustrider said:
    PS: Dart - I really want some of what your taking, your just having way too much fun!!!

    Rumour has it that the government is banning it soon... :lol:

    Perhaps, but not in Wisconsin! ;)

    Carrara just fills me with bliss. I mean, let me put it to you all like this:
    Have you ever opened up Carrara and just tried to do something cool?
    Worked, didn't it?!!!

    Carrara 8.5 ROCKS!!!

    I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm feeling a bit down: after ~14 hours of render time (and nearly complete) Carrara crashed taking the render with it. No problem, load it up and try again. Same result. The scene renders at non-final settings and resources aren't a problem (it only needs ~2GB of RAM and I've got 32GB in this rig...). Frustrating. I'll be trying again (on a different system). Wish I knew what was causing the problem...

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,387
    edited December 1969

    Imagine the fantastic art we'd have if people used the current version instead of whining about the next.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong, whatsoever, with reasonable and rational speculation about future events, especially if they are based upon available facts and intelligent reasoning. Every business on the planet does it. Every investor in the market does it. EVERYONE does it, including you.

    You don't know what the future holds, nobody can or will tell you, so you take the best data available and try to form a conclusion. You own a burger stand, you don't know how much meat to buy for next week, so you take facts about past customers, the economic situation, the traffic you've seen into your store in the past, etc, and you come up with a reasonable guess.

    Why so many here find that so distasteful when it comes to software is beyond my comprehension. And why so many get so upset when anyone speculates about anything that isn't sunshine and lollipops is also beyond my comprehension. Is it that painful to even CONSIDER things that might sound slightly negative to the way you want the world to be? And to degrade any speculation as "whining" and all the other nasty descriptions people lob at the "naysayers" is just mind boggling.

    But I suppose that's the Carrara Forum...

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Personally, I love Carrara. Are there things I wish were updated? Sure. However, I enjoy working with it. Something about 3D is magical to me when I bring the ideas in my head to life. Carrara does that.

    That being said, I do hope whatever this month's announcement is has been worth the wait.

  • FenricFenric Posts: 311
    edited December 1969

    thoromyr said:

    I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm feeling a bit down: after ~14 hours of render time (and nearly complete) Carrara crashed taking the render with it. No problem, load it up and try again. Same result. The scene renders at non-final settings and resources aren't a problem (it only needs ~2GB of RAM and I've got 32GB in this rig...). Frustrating. I'll be trying again (on a different system). Wish I knew what was causing the problem...

    There are some scenes I have that seem to crash not because of memory, but computational complexity: too many layers of shadows, transparencies, details, and such.

    Try rendering in pieces by sticking a matte black plane in front of the camera: render the part that worked, covering up the part that didn't (plus a little bit). Then cover up everything BUT the part that didn't and try again. Keep chopping it up until you either come to a part until it works or you find a part that just won't render.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    Imagine the fantastic art we'd have if people used the current version instead of whining about the next.

    Imagine the beautiful dynamic clothing animations I could have done, if DAZ hadn't borked collada and left it that way with no intention of fixing it.

    I finally downloaded the Mac version of MarvelousDesigner...! It's looking awesome.... If it's a choice between prefab Optitex and MD... I'm going with the one where I have creative control....

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    I finally downloaded the Mac version of MarvelousDesigner...! It's looking awesome.... If it's a choice between prefab Optitex and MD... I'm going with the one where I have creative control....

    But those aren't dynamic, and aren't going to be in carrara.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:

    I finally downloaded the Mac version of MarvelousDesigner...! It's looking awesome.... If it's a choice between prefab Optitex and MD... I'm going with the one where I have creative control....

    But those aren't dynamic, and aren't going to be in carrara.


    Yeah. Neither is Optitex. Your point?

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    And why do we have little green boxes under our avatars...? Is this to indicate how many times we've been banned from the forums or something?

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,409
    edited December 1969

    And why do we have little green boxes under our avatars...? Is this to indicate how many times we've been banned from the forums or something?

    no its if you been good or not ;-)

  • ncampncamp Posts: 328
    edited December 1969

    And why do we have little green boxes under our avatars...? Is this to indicate how many times we've been banned from the forums or something?

    It is based on the number of posts. There is a thread somewhere called the little green box collection thread, or something along that line.

    ncamp

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Have you ever opened up Carrara and just tried to do something cool?
    Worked, didn't it?!!!

    USUALLY!!!

    ;)

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    thoromyr said:
    I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm feeling a bit down: after ~14 hours of render time (and nearly complete) Carrara crashed taking the render with it. No problem, load it up and try again. Same result. The scene renders at non-final settings and resources aren't a problem (it only needs ~2GB of RAM and I've got 32GB in this rig...). Frustrating. I'll be trying again (on a different system). Wish I knew what was causing the problem...

    Does the crash give you any extra information? Carrara's error-handling is pathetic (sorry Dartanbeck, I'd even hold off on my 3D enhancements wishlist if only DAZ would provide robust data when the app crashes...I guess SQL Server has spoiled me too much).

    Even if there is nothing on-screen in front of your eyeballs, there might be a crash dump (I'm assuming you are using Windows here) file that can provide some clues.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    Personally, I love Carrara. Are there things I wish were updated? Sure. However, I enjoy working with it. Something about 3D is magical to me when I bring the ideas in my head to life. Carrara does that.

    Amen brother!

    That being said, I do hope whatever this month's announcement is has been worth the wait.

    As do I. As do I. It doesn't even have to be mushroom cloud big -- I've got my bar set low just in case. But at this point, anything would be welcomed news.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Fenric said:
    There are some scenes I have that seem to crash not because of memory, but computational complexity: too many layers of shadows, transparencies, details, and such.

    This is the part about the lousy error handling that really grinds my gears. There is no way in hell that "computational complexity" should crash a computer. Ever.

    Bugs. Yes. Not correctly handling return values, overflowing a stack, etc. All of those things crash away...but the math itself on any render ought to be flawless.

    Try rendering in pieces by sticking a matte black plane in front of the camera: render the part that worked, covering up the part that didn't (plus a little bit). Then cover up everything BUT the part that didn't and try again. Keep chopping it up until you either come to a part until it works or you find a part that just won't render.

    Someone offered the same advice to me about a month ago. I believe there was a past issue of C3DE that covered the technique.

  • FenricFenric Posts: 311
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Fenric said:
    There are some scenes I have that seem to crash not because of memory, but computational complexity: too many layers of shadows, transparencies, details, and such.

    This is the part about the lousy error handling that really grinds my gears. There is no way in hell that "computational complexity" should crash a computer. Ever.

    Bugs. Yes. Not correctly handling return values, overflowing a stack, etc. All of those things crash away...but the math itself on any render ought to be flawless.

    I didn't mean to give quite that impression: it is very likely that the trouble is in the memory management. They implemented a COM style reference counting system, and that is very difficult to get right. I've never pinpointed an exact cause, just certain strongly iterative operations tend to go unstable - likely either a reference going to zero when it should not have, or lingering on when it should have been collected and then disrupting the next iteration.

    The error handling, however, is unforgiveable: "An Error has Occurred" is not something anyone should ever have to look at. There's not even a log to go check.

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