Apparently the DAZ Install Manager is about ready

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Comments

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited February 2013

    3) Have somebody spend all day answering questions instead of doing the work he’s being paid to do.

    When DAZ3D is silent and doesn't answer questions about incoming products/changes/promotions, people bash it. But now people bash DAZ3D when it answers questions? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it seems.

    Personally, I'm grateful for at least some information exchange instead of dead silence of the night. Any communication is better than silence. Hype, sure, but other questions were answered by DAZ_Spooky and I appreciate it.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.No risk. And if you don't like the way it works it will uninstall everything it installed.

    This attitude is why I'm so hesitant to accept this as the wonderful thing you're trying to sell it as. You said Highly Recommended you install to a Clean Runtime Why? What are the problems if I don't? What Assumptions are in that Question that are wrong?

    Honestly, this is not the way to calm a concerned customer.

    And telling you something is great, when I don't know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    Further since it isn't released, there is only so much I am allowed to say.

    Actually, there kind of is a risk. Time uninstalling all of the content and then trying to find it again after it installs it in a weird place.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    I am worried about this since I am a Mac user and using zips really isn't an option that I would like to pursue. It is painful to install things without installs. Very painful.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.No risk. And if you don't like the way it works it will uninstall everything it installed.

    This attitude is why I'm so hesitant to accept this as the wonderful thing you're trying to sell it as. You said Highly Recommended you install to a Clean Runtime Why? What are the problems if I don't? What Assumptions are in that Question that are wrong?

    Honestly, this is not the way to calm a concerned customer.

    And telling you something is great, when I don't know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    Further since it isn't released, there is only so much I am allowed to say.

    Actually, there kind of is a risk. Time uninstalling all of the content and then trying to find it again after it installs it in a weird place.

    I will point you to someone else's post.

    I am a techy geek and LOVE tools and toys. Ya, I have had to fix things afterwards to account for this at times...But I still love to play.

    I can't wait to get my hands on this....and from what I am seeing, it looks like if I want to test drive it, I can simply create a separate Runtime and use it on new purchases? Thus leaving everything I have already customized and sorted in tact. Is this correct?

    If so color me excited! Can I have it yesterday?

    Don't uninstall anything, put your test into a new location, default or not. See how it works for you. No risk.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    3) Have somebody spend all day answering questions instead of doing the work he’s being paid to do.

    When DAZ3D is silent and doesn't answer questions about incoming products/changes/promotions, people bash it. But now people bash DAZ3D when it answers questions? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it seems.

    Personally, I'm grateful for at least some information exchange instead of dead silence of the night. Any communication is better than silence. Hype, sure, but other questions were answered by DAZ_Spooky and I appreciate it.

    Not bashing, just listing the options. Releasing the documentation early is more cost-effective for DAZ3D than having somebody answer questions all day is.

    Assuming the documentation exists, of course.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    I am worried about this since I am a Mac user and using zips really isn't an option that I would like to pursue. It is painful to install things without installs. Very painful.
    You really think we would ignore our Mac users?

  • griffon_e3f1dc9370griffon_e3f1dc9370 Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    Hmm... There is one thing I haven't seen mention of, so I am going to assume that it won't really work with it and that is Poser.

    Am I right in assuming that Poser, and Poser users who buy content here, was not taken into account when the DIM was made and the new default location was set up so for those who use Poser it really won't change anything and would in fact be easier just to download the zips on their own without the manager?

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    I am worried about this since I am a Mac user and using zips really isn't an option that I would like to pursue. It is painful to install things without installs. Very painful.
    You really think we would ignore our Mac users?

    Nope. But if you don't want to use the install manager then you are pretty much left with manual zips. If what I have heard is correct.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    Sunfire said:
    Hmm... There is one thing I haven't seen mention of, so I am going to assume that it won't really work with it and that is Poser.

    Am I right in assuming that Poser, and Poser users who buy content here, was not taken into account when the DIM was made and the new default location was set up so for those who use Poser it really won't change anything and would in fact be easier just to download the zips on their own without the manager?

    That is a big thing I am wondering about too.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.No risk. And if you don't like the way it works it will uninstall everything it installed.

    This attitude is why I'm so hesitant to accept this as the wonderful thing you're trying to sell it as. You said Highly Recommended you install to a Clean Runtime Why? What are the problems if I don't? What Assumptions are in that Question that are wrong?

    Honestly, this is not the way to calm a concerned customer.

    And telling you something is great, when I don't know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    Further since it isn't released, there is only so much I am allowed to say.

    Actually, there kind of is a risk. Time uninstalling all of the content and then trying to find it again after it installs it in a weird place.

    I will point you to someone else's post.

    I am a techy geek and LOVE tools and toys. Ya, I have had to fix things afterwards to account for this at times...But I still love to play.

    I can't wait to get my hands on this....and from what I am seeing, it looks like if I want to test drive it, I can simply create a separate Runtime and use it on new purchases? Thus leaving everything I have already customized and sorted in tact. Is this correct?

    If so color me excited! Can I have it yesterday?

    Don't uninstall anything, put your test into a new location, default or not. See how it works for you. No risk.

    Will you get the duplicate ID issue then? And I really prefer everything to be in one place ( I HATE multiple runtimes) but it is good to know it is an option.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    Sunfire said:
    Hmm... There is one thing I haven't seen mention of, so I am going to assume that it won't really work with it and that is Poser.

    Am I right in assuming that Poser, and Poser users who buy content here, was not taken into account when the DIM was made and the new default location was set up so for those who use Poser it really won't change anything and would in fact be easier just to download the zips on their own without the manager?

    No, you are not right in making that assumption. :)

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    Assuming the documentation exists, of course.

    Well, hopefully it exists. It might just not be ready yet for release (myself, I usually do documentation as a last thing, sometimes after I've packed everything)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    Will you get the duplicate ID issue then? And I really prefer everything to be in one place ( I HATE multiple runtimes) but it is good to know it is an option.

    Duplicate ID issues are bugs with the content, not how the content is installed.

    The first thing I suggest is that you update the content to make sure you have the most recent version. With Install manager, that is taken care of for you, so you might want to wait a little while longer. Now if you have the most recent version, please report that to the bug tracker http://bugs.daz3d.com under the content project.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited February 2013

    It seems the discussion about the DIM is now mainly done in this thread.

    I have one very huge issue / questionmark open that I raised in the "other thread":

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16099/#235916

    I am aware that probably only a few users took the time to use the DS4.5 metadata system to manage their runtime by setting up custom categories so items can show up in more than one category in smart content while still remaining in one place in the content library.

    From my past experience reinstalling the whole runtime I noticed that it was not downloading and installing that took a lot of time.
    It is great though to read that this part can now be done even faster.

    The most time consuming part was to go through ALL content, checking all Categories, adding Tags, setting up File Types, Compatibility Bases and Scene IDs and then saving that work as .dsx files in runtime/support.

    My most pressing question now is:

    Are there any features added in the DIM that will help users who actively used the metadata / CMS to organize their runtime to make sure all the work done before is not lost by reinstalling content?

    Please if possible refrain of adding any comments that you do not use the metadata system because it is useless for you.
    As other stated there is not one way to organize the content. Different users are now facing different problems and I feel like all of them should get some fair answers custom tailored to their needs without any judging comments by others.

    Having any information about features helping to deal with metadata backup and transfer might help me deceide if now would be a good time to go through 500 products manually to export the .dsx files to /runtime/support and make a backup of them so I can then reimport them later after the DIM has done its work.

    Or if I do not need to have to worry about that because the DIM will offer a feature to manage the user created metadata installation as well?

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    There is some serious reaching going on here to try to find fault with a piece of software that hasn't even been released. :)

    Seriously, wait for it to be released, try it, use it, then figure out what we didn't think about in designing it.

  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 279
    edited December 1969

    "....Are there any features added in the DIM that will help users who actively used the metadata / CMS to organize their runtime to make sure all the work done before is not lost by reinstalling content?..."

    You can export your User configured Metadata.....and when you re-import tell it to over-ride the Product's MD. I do it all the time when I mess with my database alot. (I create MD for all my "non-DAZ" purchased content as well.)

    I have a full Toon section totally seperated from all my other MD. Works like a charm. :)

  • griffon_e3f1dc9370griffon_e3f1dc9370 Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    Sunfire said:
    Hmm... There is one thing I haven't seen mention of, so I am going to assume that it won't really work with it and that is Poser.

    Am I right in assuming that Poser, and Poser users who buy content here, was not taken into account when the DIM was made and the new default location was set up so for those who use Poser it really won't change anything and would in fact be easier just to download the zips on their own without the manager?

    No, you are not right in making that assumption. :)

    So then how does that work if the default location is designed for Daz Studio, and it is best to install in the default location and the default location for Poser is considerably different?

    You say we can change the default location, can we also change the default install from DS install to Poser?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    Sunfire said:
    Sunfire said:
    Hmm... There is one thing I haven't seen mention of, so I am going to assume that it won't really work with it and that is Poser.

    Am I right in assuming that Poser, and Poser users who buy content here, was not taken into account when the DIM was made and the new default location was set up so for those who use Poser it really won't change anything and would in fact be easier just to download the zips on their own without the manager?

    No, you are not right in making that assumption. :)

    So then how does that work if the default location is designed for Daz Studio, and it is best to install in the default location and the default location for Poser is considerably different?

    You say we can change the default location, can we also change the default install from DS install to Poser?

    I never said it was best to install to the default location. I said the new default location better matches the EULA., but it is just a default location, and if that location does not suit you, you can set it to something else. We have to choose a default location to tell the software to install somewhere, if you don't tell it where to install.

    As for telling it what to install, :) we set it up much better than that. LOL

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited February 2013

    If I would be doing press release for DIM, I'd start with a phrase "DIM isn't mandatory. You can download and install your files manually just like before, the only thing affected is a default folder of installation and you can change it for what you like, no problems."

    Once that is clear I'd add "Now, why not try that shiny new toy and see what sort of handy things it does? Look, there is a list of features: ... " :)

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited February 2013

    You can export your User configured Metadata.....and when you re-import tell it to over-ride the Product's MD. I do it all the time when I mess with my database alot. (I create MD for all my "non-DAZ" purchased content as well.)

    Digital Lite Design, thank you for chiming in.

    I am aware of the "User Data". But I strongly feel that this is only an option for users who do not actively create metadata "Products" and save them out to runtime/support.

    For "casual" users the "User Data" is a way to retain some small adjustments.

    Example:
    You have a chainmail shirt that was categorized as "armor"
    The user feels that he also wants to find it in the category "shirt" and "outerwear/tops" and adds checkmarks in those categories as well.

    For small adjustments like that the "User Data" is very useful for users who do not want to be bothered with all the details of metadata creation.

    - - -

    But if you make advanced adjustment to "Products" by using the Product Library / Content DB Editor" and set up File Types, Tags, Compatibility Bases and Scene IDs you will want to have that work saved out as .dsx files to runtime/support

    The .dsx files are a product specific backup of all adjustments you have done to a "Product".

    In contrast the User Data is a collection of ALL adjustments the User made that are NOT saved to /runtime/support but to a separate User Database in

    C:\ProgramData\DAZ 3D\Content Management Service\databases

    What is needed are easier ways to import and export the Product .dsx files

    - Batch exporting of all Product .dsx files from "Content DB Maintenance - export metadata"
    - a Search field to enter product names and Ids in "Content DB Maintenance - import metadata"
    - The import queue of metadata at start up has to be "fixed" so no metadata is skipped when importing long queues.

    I was hoping to find some of those features done with the DIM.
    You can find a longer version how I come up with the need for those features in the other thread.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16099/#235916

    Guess at this point I can only wait until the release find out myself what is covered by the DIM, if any of it.

    Update / Edit:

    I am aware that I am now specualating about features that may or may not be included.

    But what else is to be expected when new videos and a newsletter create exceitment right before the weekend?
    A lot of questions are raised. All customers can do is raise questions in the forum and then wait around again for the release.

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • atryeuatryeu Posts: 605
    edited December 1969

    I have a non-complaining related question that I hope can be answered LoL

    Does the program report file sizes BEFORE attempting any kind of download? This is a very very very much needed feature for those of us on dialup, especially with daily or monthly time limits and most especially if the resume support really wasn't included. I can't spend hours waiting on a download to finish only to find out it's going to run past my 8 hour session limit and then have 8 hours of my 250 monthly hours wasted when I could have used it for something else -_- Please tell me there are size listings :(

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    atryeu said:
    I have a non-complaining related question that I hope can be answered LoL

    Does the program report file sizes BEFORE attempting any kind of download?

    Yes

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    atryeu said:
    I have a non-complaining related question that I hope can be answered LoL

    Does the program report file sizes BEFORE attempting any kind of download?

    Yes

    This is actually a very handy feature

  • sikeussikeus Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I think my question may have gotten lost in the discussion. :)

    When a product is installed, will DIM automatically open up the readme in a web browser? (Or is there a user setting option that will allow us to have that automatically happen?)

    Thanks.

  • atryeuatryeu Posts: 605
    edited December 1969

    atryeu said:
    I have a non-complaining related question that I hope can be answered LoL

    Does the program report file sizes BEFORE attempting any kind of download?

    Yes

    Thank you for such a fast reply. That's something I guess. One more question as well, while on the topic of this.

    Originally it was said that the program would only download the updated files for a product that was updated and we could select 1 thing at a time to download. Is this the case still, or for an updated product will we need to download the entire zip again instead of just the selected updated parts of the file?

    Thank you again.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited December 1969

    sikeus said:
    I think my question may have gotten lost in the discussion. :)

    When a product is installed, will DIM automatically open up the readme in a web browser? (Or is there a user setting option that will allow us to have that automatically happen?)

    Thanks.

    It is easier than that. Just click on a button, before after, or during download and/or install.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,953
    edited February 2013

    atryeu said:
    atryeu said:
    I have a non-complaining related question that I hope can be answered LoL

    Does the program report file sizes BEFORE attempting any kind of download?

    Yes

    Thank you for such a fast reply. That's something I guess. One more question as well, while on the topic of this.

    Originally it was said that the program would only download the updated files for a product that was updated and we could select 1 thing at a time to download. Is this the case still, or for an updated product will we need to download the entire zip again instead of just the selected updated parts of the file?

    Thank you again.

    Product, not pieces of a product. (I would hate to think what the server overhead on that one would be, especially keeping track of who needed what part of what product.)

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 279
    edited December 1969

    You can export your User configured Metadata.....and when you re-import tell it to over-ride the Product's MD. I do it all the time when I mess with my database alot. (I create MD for all my "non-DAZ" purchased content as well.)

    Digital Lite Design, thank you for chiming in.

    I am aware of the "User Data". But I strongly feel that this is only an option for users who do not actively create metadata "Products" and save them out to runtime/support.

    For "casual" users the "User Data" is a way to retain some small adjustments.

    Example:
    You have a chainmail shirt that was categorized as "armor"
    The user feels that he also wants to find it in the category "shirt" and "outerwear/tops" and adds checkmarks in those categories as well.

    For small adjustments like that the "User Data" is very useful for users who do not want to be bothered with all the details of metadata creation.

    - - -

    But if you make advanced adjustment to "Products" by using the Product Library / Content DB Editor" and set up File Types, Tags, Compatibility Bases and Scene IDs you will want to have that work saved out as .dsx files to runtime/support

    The .dsx files are a product specific backup of all adjustments you have done to a "Product".

    In contrast the User Data is a collection of ALL adjustments the User made that are NOT saved to /runtime/support but to a separate User Database in

    C:\ProgramData\DAZ 3D\Content Management Service\databases

    What is needed are easier ways to import and export the Product .dsx files

    - Batch exporting of all Product .dsx files from "Content DB Maintenance - export metadata"
    - a Search field to enter product names and Ids in "Content DB Maintenance - import metadata"
    - The import queue of metadata at start up has to be "fixed" so no metadata is skipped when importing long queues.

    I was hoping to find some of those features done with the DIM.
    You can find a longer version how I come up with the need for those features in the other thread.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16099/#235916

    Guess at this point I can only wait until the release find out myself what is covered by the DIM, if any of it.

    :) Not necessarily. I have been doing Metadata since the beginning. I have done A LOT of metadata. LOL While I save out a weekly copy of my Support folder (zipped) I also save out the User Data and allow it to do it's job. It saves me when I have forgotten to actually save out a product's Support files. Which with the amount I do, is often.

    Metadata is a part of DAZ Studio, and from what the Videos say, DIM is a stand alone product meant to install, track and manage product files for just that purpose. Downloading and installing. I wouldn't expect it to also be a management tool for Metadata, as that has it's own tools that do the job they are supposed to. Integration of multiple tools can be good, but they can also be a nightmare.

    The forums have yelled for years about an easy way to install products. Looks like we may be getting just what we asked for. I'd hope it does just that.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited February 2013

    Metadata is a part of DAZ Studio, and from what the Videos say, DIM is a stand alone product meant to install, track and manage product files for just that purpose. Downloading and installing. I wouldn't expect it to also be a management tool for Metadata, as that has it's own tools that do the job they are supposed to. Integration of multiple tools can be good, but they can also be a nightmare.

    The forums have yelled for years about an easy way to install products. Looks like we may be getting just what we asked for. I'd hope it does just that.

    Digital Lite Design, thank you for your patience. It seems, I got off track there somewhat with my speculation.
    As soon as everything is set up for the DIM to be working I guess it will do exactly what it was intended to do.

    What got me worried is just the things I have to do before the DIM can work as intended.
    Anyway guess there is really no point in speculating around anymore.

    I will have to wait and see what the DIM does.

    Then it will become clear if the quick solution of "User Data" will prevent me of mass exporting and importing .dsx files.

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Mari-AnneMari-Anne Posts: 310
    edited December 1969

    Will there be a nice Help document with step-by-step instructions for the various install scenarios included in the purchase of the new DIM?

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