Apparently the DAZ Install Manager is about ready

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Comments

  • FobokFobok Posts: 78
    edited December 1969

    I really don't get the negativity in this thread. It's recommended because it makes things easier for the casual user. If you're not a casual user and it wouldn't make things easier for you, don't use it. It's already been stated in this thread many times that it isn't mandatory.

    Why is having a new option a bad thing? Does it hurt you if I use it and you don't?

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Just a heads up if it has not been mentioned yet. As part of the DIM going live all users full Daz3D purchase histories will now show PURCHASED on any item in your IOH. I hope just this one part will help any user that desides DIM was a bad idea.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,285
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Part of my concern Spooky one.... is that many of us choose to create our own directories within the Genesis default directory of People>Genesis. Clothing is split up ... see screen grab. The same for the Character sets and what I consider Fantasy sets are all in their own directories, makes finding stuff easier for me. Another concern is starting from scratch, a year later with literally Gigs of content to redownload and install is that it's mixed up with ALLOT of stuff from Renderosity and some fabulous freebies from JoeQuick, Wilmap and others. So it's really not SEEMING advantageous to go through all this. Convince me otherwise because trying to figure out how to split all that out from the data folder, texture folder and all the rest is going to be ALLOT of work.
    Exactly how is a tool supposed to know where you moved things to after install? Or how you renamed things?

    Perhaps it can have an automated search tool within the DIM that looks for the products MAIN folder, once located it could create it's own sort of meta data for it and log it in a text file stored some place for reference.

    I think that's part of the issue with Meta data as a whole. If products are re-organized the program is not set up to auto search for it and if it does it looks for the main parent folder, not the actual product folder. This would be helpful in getting folks to use Smart Content tab rather than the Content Manager. I think currently I have like 20 items that show up in the Smart Content manager to this day. I don't even move any of the hair products and yet hardly any show up in the Smart Content Manager. Since all this is integrated in one way or the other I thought it was worth mentioning here.

    PS. Thanks to whomever got the Previously purchased working again. I went out to an updated product that RAWN mentioned and saw that the "Add To Cart" was showing "Purchased". Even older products seem to be showing them when going to the page. Dagon for Hiro 3 for example. So that's really nice to see that reminder working again!

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    You guys are making a ton of assumptions, they are, for the most part, wrong.

    To include the thought that Install manager can't uninstall things it didn't install, we thought of all of these questions, and answered all of them in the software. (To include the question about docs. :) )

    I can sit here and tell you how wonderful it is, I can say it changes how things will work for you, I can say you will like it, but quite frankly, that doesn't matter to you and you know it.

    The only thing that will matter is how it works for you, and the only way to see how it works for you is for you to try it, once it is released. No you don't have to try it on your entire catalog, initially. :)

    We had a whole bunch of testers, they all asked the same questions, they all had the same doubts. I can't think of one that wouldn't come after me with a copious amount of high explosives if we now took it away from them.

  • SpitSpit Posts: 1,584
    edited December 1969

    I thought this was an older thread so didn't pop in from page one. I went back to the beginning and read from page 1 and I agree with you both.

    Even if I were to dump my close to 5500 DAZ products and start over to let the 'dim' do it's thing, that wouldn't take care of the Genesis stuff I've picked up elsewhere both free and for sale. Letalone the non-genesis stuff. DAZ? You're not the only supplier of content on the planet!

    DAZ TELL US what the changes in structure and organization are. Just INFORM US. Don't make us wait til all is revealed.

    adamr001 said:
    Anything NOT downloaded by the Install Manager will be required to be RE-downloaded if you want the Install Manager to manage things. However, it will happily install over existing installs and ignore (not change) any custom categorization/metadata.

    IF you've moved things around inside of their relative paths (e.g., moved an item from "pose/bob" to "pose/joe"), it'll just install it in the original path and you'll end up with duplicates.


    These two statements, taken together, mean the lovely shiny new Install Manager will be absolutely useless to me.

    I have bought a huge amount of DAZ content — I have to re-download all of that just to get the Manager to deign to acknowledge its existence?

    I have re-organised almost all of my installed content, partly due to shoddy/inconsistent/incomprehensible folder naming back in the early days, partly due to grouping all the scattered-hither-and-yon Poser folders of an average product into one. I know where to find everything. If I let the Manager have its way, I'll never be able to find anything again.

    Sorry, DAZ, I suspected this way back when it was first discussed, but now I know using the Install Manager would be a waste of time for me, and seriously mess up my installed content. It would be great for someone just starting out, but for us long-time users who have a heavily customised content library/Runtime, there's a very good chance it will be useless or worse.

    Exactly. Where's the like button? :)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Exactly how is a tool supposed to know where you moved things to after install? Or how you renamed things?

    Perhaps it can have an automated search tool within the DIM that looks for the products MAIN folder, once located it could create it's own sort of meta data for it and log it in a text file stored some place for reference.

    Thought of it, it can't be done. Not, at least until the thought controlled interface is perfected. :)

    We did look at a tool that would batch run your uninstallers, but since many customers don't keep those around, and if you move content after it is installed they won't work anyway, we decided it didn't help enough to put the time into it.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,900
    edited December 1969

    AprilYSH, I'm not negative toward it and I'm sure it will be a nice tool for people with smaller runtimes, but at this moment I see little point of using it myself (experience will tell), this is why I'm asking. As long as DIM is optional and I'm still getting my exe/zip installers like they were, I'm fine.

    DAZ_Spooky, have a question for you - does DIM in any way uses cloud and if yes, how exactly?

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    You guys are making a ton of assumptions, they are, for the most part, wrong.

    To include the thought that Install manager can't uninstall things it didn't install, we thought of all of these questions, and answered all of them in the software. (To include the question about docs. :) )

    I can sit here and tell you how wonderful it is, I can say it changes how things will work for you, I can say you will like it, but quite frankly, that doesn't matter to you and you know it.

    The only thing that will matter is how it works for you, and the only way to see how it works for you is for you to try it, once it is released. No you don't have to try it on your entire catalog, initially. :)

    We had a whole bunch of testers, they all asked the same questions, they all had the same doubts. I can't think of one that wouldn't come after me with a copious amount of high explosives if we now took it away from them.

    I remember going through this before with the default DS4 interface. Even after several people in the testing group said this is bad idea, DAZ employees insisted that it had been tested by another group and was universally loved. And then when it went live, they were blindsided by the hate for the default DS4 interface. I believe that's why the Darkside layout is now included.

    So excuse me if I'm hesitant to take your word on it.

    And please, what are the potential problems if I don't do a clean install? That question has not been answered and I'm not risking any of my runtimes to "try it out."

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    Spit said:

    DAZ TELL US what the changes in structure and organization are. Just INFORM US. Don't make us wait til all is revealed.
    As I already stated, none, except the default location, which you are not required to use, for where DAZ3D Install Manager installs to. Anything more would break the content.

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 1,465
    edited December 1969

    Do I understand this correctly that I could just use the DIM to download my purchased items but do not have to use it to install them. I tend to buy lots of items but only install each one then figure it out and then move to the next item so that I know where and whats included with each item. I have just been installing everything default for now. I have lots of items not d/l yet and if I could do just that with this procuct that would be awesome. Also after everything is d/l would it then just d/l any new purchases? I would assume so...

  • SpitSpit Posts: 1,584
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    ...

    PS. Thanks to whomever got the Previously purchased working again. I went out to an updated product that RAWN mentioned and saw that the "Add To Cart" was showing "Purchased". Even older products seem to be showing them when going to the page. Dagon for Hiro 3 for example. So that's really nice to see that reminder working again!


    OMG

    DAZ, all is forgiven. At least for today ;)

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.


    ( I was getting worried that any such notification might be dependent on the new install manager )

    ::blush::

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    You guys are making a ton of assumptions, they are, for the most part, wrong.

    To include the thought that Install manager can't uninstall things it didn't install, we thought of all of these questions, and answered all of them in the software. (To include the question about docs. :) )

    I can sit here and tell you how wonderful it is, I can say it changes how things will work for you, I can say you will like it, but quite frankly, that doesn't matter to you and you know it.

    The only thing that will matter is how it works for you, and the only way to see how it works for you is for you to try it, once it is released. No you don't have to try it on your entire catalog, initially. :)

    We had a whole bunch of testers, they all asked the same questions, they all had the same doubts. I can't think of one that wouldn't come after me with a copious amount of high explosives if we now took it away from them.

    I remember going through this before with the default DS4 interface. Even after several people in the testing group said this is bad idea, DAZ employees insisted that it had been tested by another group and was universally loved. And then when it went live, they were blindsided by the hate for the default DS4 interface. I believe that's why the Darkside layout is now included.

    So excuse me if I'm hesitant to take your word on it.

    And please, what are the potential problems if I don't do a clean install? That question has not been answered and I'm not risking any of my runtimes to "try it out."

    You are making assumptions, still. They are still wrong.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    Kharma said:
    Do I understand this correctly that I could just use the DIM to download my purchased items but do not have to use it to install them. I tend to buy lots of items but only install each one then figure it out and then move to the next item so that I know where and whats included with each item.Oh it is much better than that. :)

    I have just been installing everything default for now. I have lots of items not d/l yet and if I could do just that with this procuct that would be awesome. Also after everything is d/l would it then just d/l any new purchases? I would assume so...

    New items and products with an update. :)

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    You guys are making a ton of assumptions, they are, for the most part, wrong.

    To include the thought that Install manager can't uninstall things it didn't install, we thought of all of these questions, and answered all of them in the software. (To include the question about docs. :) )

    I can sit here and tell you how wonderful it is, I can say it changes how things will work for you, I can say you will like it, but quite frankly, that doesn't matter to you and you know it.

    The only thing that will matter is how it works for you, and the only way to see how it works for you is for you to try it, once it is released. No you don't have to try it on your entire catalog, initially. :)

    We had a whole bunch of testers, they all asked the same questions, they all had the same doubts. I can't think of one that wouldn't come after me with a copious amount of high explosives if we now took it away from them.

    I remember going through this before with the default DS4 interface. Even after several people in the testing group said this is bad idea, DAZ employees insisted that it had been tested by another group and was universally loved. And then when it went live, they were blindsided by the hate for the default DS4 interface. I believe that's why the Darkside layout is now included.

    So excuse me if I'm hesitant to take your word on it.

    And please, what are the potential problems if I don't do a clean install? That question has not been answered and I'm not risking any of my runtimes to "try it out."

    You are making assumptions, still. They are still wrong.

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.

    This attitude is why I'm so hesitant to accept this as the wonderful thing you're trying to sell it as. You said Highly Recommended you install to a Clean Runtime Why? What are the problems if I don't? What Assumptions are in that Question that are wrong?

    Honestly, this is not the way to calm a concerned customer.

  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 266
    edited December 1969

    I am a techy geek and LOVE tools and toys. Ya, I have had to fix things afterwards to account for this at times...But I still love to play.

    I can't wait to get my hands on this....and from what I am seeing, it looks like if I want to test drive it, I can simply create a separate Runtime and use it on new purchases? Thus leaving everything I have already customized and sorted in tact. Is this correct?

    If so color me excited! Can I have it yesterday?

  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 266
    edited December 1969

    @DaWaterRat - If you are concerned, just wait until they can talk more about it. I imagine more info will come out once it is released. :) No one has to make a decision on it now. Heck it isn't even out yet and we are all jumping on or off ship already. LOL

    Don't I feel silly.....

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.No risk. And if you don't like the way it works it will uninstall everything it installed.

    This attitude is why I'm so hesitant to accept this as the wonderful thing you're trying to sell it as. You said Highly Recommended you install to a Clean Runtime Why? What are the problems if I don't? What Assumptions are in that Question that are wrong?

    Honestly, this is not the way to calm a concerned customer.

    And telling you something is great, when I don't know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    Further since it isn't released, there is only so much I am allowed to say.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,900
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:

    PS. Thanks to whomever got the Previously purchased working again. I went out to an updated product that RAWN mentioned and saw that the "Add To Cart" was showing "Purchased". Even older products seem to be showing them when going to the page. Dagon for Hiro 3 for example. So that's really nice to see that reminder working again!

    Gods, really? They did? *runs to check out if it's truth* If so, those are definitely good news.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    I am a techy geek and LOVE tools and toys. Ya, I have had to fix things afterwards to account for this at times...But I still love to play.

    I can't wait to get my hands on this....and from what I am seeing, it looks like if I want to test drive it, I can simply create a separate Runtime and use it on new purchases? Thus leaving everything I have already customized and sorted in tact. Is this correct?

    If so color me excited! Can I have it yesterday?

    Correct.

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 1,465
    edited December 1969

    I absolutely love the return of the " purchased" button.. this also work for items from bundles that I have tested :)) Thank You!! I have purchased a couple items a second time andd was not happy about that but shouldn't happen now!

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    AprilYSH, I'm not negative toward it and I'm sure it will be a nice tool for people with smaller runtimes, but at this moment I see little point of using it myself (experience will tell), this is why I'm asking. As long as DIM is optional and I'm still getting my exe/zip installers like they were, I'm fine.

    DAZ_Spooky, have a question for you - does DIM in any way uses cloud and if yes, how exactly?

    As far as your end is concerned? It is all local. Exactly how the server end works, I am a bit fuzzy, as that isn't my end of things.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,285
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    RAMWolff said:

    PS. Thanks to whomever got the Previously purchased working again. I went out to an updated product that RAWN mentioned and saw that the "Add To Cart" was showing "Purchased". Even older products seem to be showing them when going to the page. Dagon for Hiro 3 for example. So that's really nice to see that reminder working again!

    Gods, really? They did? *runs to check out if it's truth* If so, those are definitely good news.

    Notice where the "Add to Cart" button is? :-)

    DagonPurchased.jpg
    986 x 805 - 233K
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited February 2013

    Then tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. I'm not trying it out until I know the risks.No risk. And if you don't like the way it works it will uninstall everything it installed.

    It should not have been like pulling teeth to get that answer.

    And telling you something is great, when I don't know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    Really? That's been the prevailing tone of your early posts. That's its wonderful, and everyone is going to love it. It was only when people started pointing out ways that it might not be wonderful for them that you toned it down.

    I understand that there's only so much you can say, but simple questions deserve solid answers, not smokescreens, even if it's "I can't answer that yet."

    Post edited by DaWaterRat on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,900
    edited February 2013

    And telling you something is great, when I don’t know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    I'm sorry to say it but it sounded as if DIM has a significant problem but you won't tell us because you want us to buy into hype.

    Obviously there is an issue with Clean Installation that you aware about and we aren't. You told us about almost everything else, covering this particular part of information now with "before release I can't tell" sounds very suspicious to me. *shrugs* If there is a problem and DAZ3D won't tell us until we try DIM and break/burn something due to that non-mentioned-before problem, it will be a significantly bigger problem to DAZ3D to 1) persuade people to use that tool despite its other merits 2) calm people down and ever live up to yet another bit of bad publicity that many are eager to heap on it any taken day. I don't see a merit of withholding of such info. More that that, I'd release it (information) and see if people can find a solution or workaround for said problem, or at least write a clear instructions about how to avoid it.

    I"m ok with hype, but I prefer more to be well-informed about possible technical flaws and procedures.

    Thank you for answering the question about cloud tech.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    @DaWaterRat - If you are concerned, just wait until they can talk more about it. I imagine more info will come out once it is released. :) No one has to make a decision on it now. Heck it isn't even out yet and we are all jumping on or off ship already. LOL

    Don't I feel silly.....

    "Highly recommend you do X" coming from tech people always reads like a warning that not doing X is a "Bad thing" that is going to screw up your system.

    But if I do X, or don't do X, I want to know why X is better and what will go wrong if I don't do X. (Yes, I was one of those kids that constantly asked "Why" I still am.) And if DAZ_Spooky or any of the testers had just said "I can discuss that after the release" I would have backed off. Instead I was given more sales pitches.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,900
    edited December 1969

    Notice where the “Add to Cart” button is? :-)

    And I still can buy it if I want yet another copy by some reason. Hurray for the light of information and the freedom of choice! Nice work, people of DAZ3D - now don't break it again, please. Ever! :)

  • sikeussikeus Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    My question is, will the installer include an option to automatically pop up the readme in our browsers, like previous installers? I use this so I can know where to go to categorize my content.

    While I don't think the DIM has anything to do with categorizing content, it would be awesome to have a content manager program that I could train somehow so it would take fewer clicks to categorize each item. Oh, if wishes were fishes... :)

    It will be nice to have fewer clicks on the installing part, though. The new DIM sounds like it will work fine for me, since I install everything to the same runtime, then go in and categorize everything. I'm glad to hear that my categories will not be messed with in any way.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,900
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    And telling you something is great, when I don’t know what you want, how you use your content, or whether you will even use it is irresponsible.

    I'm sorry to say it but it sounded as if DIM has a significant problem but you won't tell us because you want us to buy into hype.

    Obviously there is an issue with Clean Installation that you aware about and we aren't. You told us about almost everything else, covering it with "before release I can't tell" sounds very suspicious to me. *shrugs* If there is a problem and DAZ3D won't tell us until we try DIM and break/burn something due to that non-mentioned problem, it will be a bigger problem to DAZ3D to calm people down and ever live up to yet another bit of bad publicity that many are eager to heap on it any taken day. I don't see a merit of hiding such info.

    I"m ok with hype, but I prefer more to be well-informed about possible technical flaws and procedures.

    Thank you for answering the question about cloud tech.

    More assumptions, that are incorrect.

    We are unaware of any flaws, if we were you wouldn't be seeing any of this.

    Let me be absolutely clear, it is HIGHLY recommended that you use a clean Content structure because it works BEST that way. There is no deep dark secret, there is nothing being hidden.

    It is, however, something that has to be experienced to be appreciated.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,900
    edited December 1969

    Let me be absolutely clear, it is HIGHLY recommended that you use a clean Content structure because it works BEST that way. There is no deep dark secret, there is nothing being hidden.

    Thank you for that clarification.

    and if there is a conspiracy to hide sinister things from us, now we have a post confirmation to rant about it ;)

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited December 1969

    More assumptions, that are incorrect.

    It would be easier for us to avoid making incorrect assumptions if we actually knew something about the program.

    There are three ways to let us know something about the program:
    1) Release the program
    2) Release the documentation
    3) Have somebody spend all day answering questions instead of doing the work he's being paid to do.

    I understand that option 1 is a no-go, since the program has been promised to Platinum Club members first.

    I expect that option 3 is unpalatable from a business standpoint.

    That leaves option 2.

    Where is the program documentation?

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