3D text possible with Hexagon?

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Comments

  • bloodsnhallbloodsnhall Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I did the smae thing with a dress and it worked, but it took the texture. I explaianed above that even if you were to texture it in hex that sometimes it wont work. when exporting from Hex to Daz you'll lose you textures even if the textures are applied in Hex. I have created many things and sometimes it works and sometimes it wont.

    daz_hex_dress.JPG
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    dress.JPG
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  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited January 2013

    I am importing Genesis from Daz and then I am using the boolean operation to alter the model, then I am sending it back into Daz using ethier wavefont obj or the send to daz option in the file menu.Everyone should try this for themselves to see what happens.

    I am using 2.5

    Okay let me see what happens. I'm not using Booleans but can't see why that should affect the scale of the object.

    Edited to add that I don't lose textures all the time but it can sometimes happen. Not a big issue if I'm doing a morph for something but it is a problem if it is a stand alone item.

    I always save frequently using the incremental save so I don't lose too much work.

    I may not be able to get back to you tonight but will definitely get back in the next 24 hours.

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • bloodsnhallbloodsnhall Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Neither do I thats the problem, Find out why boolean changes the size of the model if you can.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Hi there - seems that the problems you are having have very little to do with Hex, but your understanding of how the applications work - let's see if we can help you out:)

    Firstly, so we can all be on the same page, the application you are using is Daz Studio (commonly referred to as DS) - Daz is the name of the company that owns it. Secondly, there is no direct import between DS and Hex - there is the bridge, but that is a whole other thing.

    There are two methods of getting stuff between DS and Hex - one is exporting as .obj from DS, importing into Hex, exporting as .obj from Hex and importing into DS. Then there is the direct bridge - never mix these two functions, or will get proportion problems.

    When exporting from DS, make sure that the figure is in the base (no smoothing) mode, export at Studio dimensions, import into Hex at 1.00, export from Hex at 1.00 and import back into DS at Studio dimensions. You won't have any proportion problems with that method.

    Sending to Hex via the bridge - Hex must be closed, so the bridge can open it. Make sure that the figure is at the base smoothing level. This will not give you any proportional problems.

    On the matter of proportions - there is no standardization throughout the 3D world - every application handles proportions differently, so this isn't confined to Hex-DS. Regardless of what other applications you use, you will have to learn about the various ratios used.

    The DS-Hex bridge is intended to be used to make morphs for DS products, so using that will keep proportions intact. Bear in mind that making a morph involves moving vertices around - nothing else. If you alter the shape by adding/subtracting vertices, such as using the Boolean function, (or adding a tail) it alters it drastically and it is no longer the original figure, so the UV maps won't work and therefore the textures won't work.

    You are quite right that original .obj's exported from Hex will come into DS at a very small size - that is common throughout the 3D world - the difference between Hex and DS is close to 1000% (I forget the exact figure), so you can either export it from Hex at 1000 and import to DS at Studio proportions, or export from Hex at 1.00 and import into DS at 1000%. You'll soon learn that size doesn't count - it is proportion which are important.

    You referred to texturing in Hex - depends what you mean by texturing. There are three methods in Hex - you can 3D paint, or import a texture, or simply colour it. DS isn't all that good at reading texture maps directly and this is true of many 3D apps. Plus every application handles textures differently. For instance, I just tested sending a cube and a sphere, coloured differently, from Hex to DS. Using the bridge, they came in just fine. Exporting as .obj, the cube came in perfectly, but the sphere seemed to have no colour, but when rendered, they were both fine, although the colours weren't exactly what they were in Hex.

    There isn't a lot of point in texturing in a modelling application - best to do it in the rendering application, simply because all render engines handle colours and textures differently. If it is intended for DS, rather define your shading domains and materials in Hex and do the texturing in the surfaces function in DS.

    If you really want to do 3D painting or importing textures into Hex, when you export the .obj, it will save as a .png file in the same location as the .obj. In DS, using the surfaces function, navigate to that folder and import the texture.

    Lastly - avoid using the Boolean function like the plague - it is useful is some instances, but only if absolutely necessary. It really messes up the geometry and unless you have a lot of time and expertise to fix it, you end up with a mess that DS really doesn't like. There are many methods of doing things without Boolean, which is, after all, simply a shortcut to doing something you could model anyway.

    Hope some of this will help you towards the next level in your endeavours:)

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Thank Roygee, you explained it way better than what I could...

  • bloodsnhallbloodsnhall Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I understand my knowledge is limited, I stated that myself. My lack of knowledge of Hex is evident I don't see why that should be pointed out. I am having problems with hex because it is near impossible to find answers or solutions to problems when using it in a timely manor with that said thank you for your help. You know what i am trying to say common now, you replied to my questions. Why try and point the blame at me when I am just trying to understand it?

    So boolean is useless with DS. What operations should I be using? Should I be using extrusion or what when altering DS models? Which ones work and which ones don't?

    "There isn’t a lot of point in texturing in a modelling application - best to do it in the rendering application, simply because all render engines handle colours and textures differently. If it is intended for DS, rather define your shading domains and materials in Hex and do the texturing in the surfaces function in DS." This is helpful, thank you. Shaders amoung other things that I have purchased don't appear on the models they only appear on the renders which also makes things hard on you.

    I can't tell you how annoying hearing about how my knowledge is limited when using Daz and Hex is. It seems to come up every time someone is fustrated and has a question about how things work in them, this is the most discouraging and disappointing thing about using these programs. No resources and people insulting you when you are just trying to learn how they work. After a few months of this it get you to the point you look elsewhere.

    Agian because it is free I think it is great, although there are other free program that do the same thing. I would have never considered going else where if I wasn't feeling like I was being insulted and could obtain the information I needed to solve my problem in a timely and respectful manor.

    Again, I do thank everyone for their time for trying to help me and I have found some very nice people here,

    Respectfully,
    Jerry

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited January 2013

    I understand my knowledge is limited, I stated that myself. My lack of knowledge of Hex is evident I don't see why that should be pointed out. I am having problems with hex because it is near impossible to find answers or solutions to problems when using it in a timely manor with that said thank you for your help. You know what i am trying to say common now, you replied to my questions. Why try and point the blame at me when I am just trying to understand it? I don't believe that Roygee intended in any way, shape or form to insult you. I certainly didn't read his post that way.

    So boolean is useless with DS. What operations should I be using? Should I be using extrusion or what when altering DS models? Which ones work and which ones don't? Booleans can work but they frequently create a bad mesh that contains ngons. Ngons are a polygon that contains more than 4 sides. Without very careful planning Booleans can cause more problems than they solve. Which is why even expert modellers use them very carefully and plan out what they are going to do ahead of time.

    What Roygee said about using them in morphs is correct. Morphs require exactly the same number of vertices etc as the original object. If they don't have that they will not work as morphs. So if you are create morphs you cannot use any tool that will add extra vertices. That would include extrusion which adds additional polys and vertices.

    When I do morphs I stick to using things like soft selection and moving the points around until I get the shape I want. Even being really careful it is still possible to add extra vertices.

    "There isn’t a lot of point in texturing in a modelling application - best to do it in the rendering application, simply because all render engines handle colours and textures differently. If it is intended for DS, rather define your shading domains and materials in Hex and do the texturing in the surfaces function in DS." This is helpful, thank you. Shaders amoung other things that I have purchased don't appear on the models they only appear on the renders which also makes things hard on you.

    That would mainly be shaders that have been created in shadermixer. If you use the spot render tool you can get an idea of what it will look like without doing a full render.

    I can't tell you how annoying hearing about how my knowledge is limited when using Daz and Hex is. It seems to come up every time someone is fustrated and has a question about how things work in them, this is the most discouraging and disappointing thing about using these programs. No resources and people insulting you when you are just trying to learn how they work. After a few months of this it get you to the point you look elsewhere.
    Are you aware that both Roygee and myself are spending our precious time(and my time is precious as I work fulltime) to try and help you. In no way did Roygee say anything insulting. Neither of us is employed in any way by DAZ 3D. We help because we like to give back to the community which helped us when we were learning ourselves. It's responses like this that make people wary of trying to help new users. I started to learn Hexagon via this website just like you. I actually paid for my copy of Hexagon admittedly it was on sale so I got it at a greatly reduced price. I would imagine that Roygee also did .

    I've never seen him anything but helpful and kind. You need to go back and reread his post because he does not insult you.

    Instead he has given you lots of useful information. Information that you would otherwise not have and would have to hunt for via google.


    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Again, I do thank everyone for their time for trying to help me and I have found some very nice people here

    Then why did you just accuse one of the nicest people on this entire forum of insulting you?

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 386
    edited December 1969

    I second afreaginname's question...

    Roygee, in no way, insulted you, or your lack of knowledge. We were all new once, and learned from those who came before, just as you are now.

    Don't get discouraged. You will eventually become more knowledgeable, and comfortable with what both software can/cannot do. There are a lot of resources at your disposal, and many willing people, like these fine folks here, that will help you out (including finding resources; Just name what you need, and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction).

    Good luck in your endeavors, and most of all, try to have fun (I know it's difficult at times when one is frustrated, though)...

  • Steve athomeSteve athome Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    You are quite right that original .obj's exported from Hex will come into DS at a very small size - that is common throughout the 3D world - the difference between Hex and DS is close to 1000% (I forget the exact figure), so you can either export it from Hex at 1000 and import to DS at Studio proportions, or export from Hex at 1.00 and import into DS at 1000%. You'll soon learn that size doesn't count - it is proportion which are important.

    For Daz Studio, I believe the units are based on 1 unit = 96inchs(8 feet). If creating objects, then there is a need to get not only the import/export options correct in Hexagon, but also correct in DS.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    You are quite right that original .obj's exported from Hex will come into DS at a very small size - that is common throughout the 3D world - the difference between Hex and DS is close to 1000% (I forget the exact figure), so you can either export it from Hex at 1000 and import to DS at Studio proportions, or export from Hex at 1.00 and import into DS at 1000%. You'll soon learn that size doesn't count - it is proportion which are important.

    For Daz Studio, I believe the units are based on 1 unit = 96inchs(8 feet). If creating objects, then there is a need to get not only the import/export options correct in Hexagon, but also correct in DS.

    too true...this caused me a lot of grief when I was first learning. That's one of the reasons I love using the bridge especially for morphs and clothing.

  • Steve athomeSteve athome Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Hi Pendraia,

    Pendraia said:
    too true...this caused me a lot of grief when I was first learning. That's one of the reasons I love using the bridge especially for morphs and clothing.
    Was there not a problem with saving morphs sent across the bridge to DS from Hexagon at one time? (I am sure seeing a problem myself when testing some time ago). Is that now fixed?

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Hi Pendraia,

    Pendraia said:
    too true...this caused me a lot of grief when I was first learning. That's one of the reasons I love using the bridge especially for morphs and clothing.
    Was there not a problem with saving morphs sent across the bridge to DS from Hexagon at one time? (I am sure seeing a problem myself when testing some time ago). Is that now fixed?

    I haven't had any issues so far. It is possible that there was a bug in one of the earlier versions of ds. I've only used the more major releases of ds and generally wait to see if there are any problems prior to installing.

    I'm currently using autifit to convert stuff to genesis and I'm sending stuff to hexagon to create fix morphs quite a lot. Especially for fixing the stretching on long skirts. The only problem I've encountered is sometimes when I send it back it opens a new ds instead of sending it back to the open version. I've assumed that has been because I've inadvertently added some vertices so it won't work as a morph. When I start again and go through the process it generally works properly which is why I put it down to user error and believe that I've done something which mucks up the morph.

  • Steve athomeSteve athome Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    I haven't had any issues so far.

    OK, thanks. I will have another look later. I have just installed DS 4.5 to first take a look at scaling etc.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    I haven't had any issues so far.

    OK, thanks. I will have another look later. I have just installed DS 4.5 to first take a look at scaling etc.

    Cool...just one thing as you mentioned scaling. If you are creating morphs for a figure that contains scaling you need to change the scale to 100% prior to exporting it to Hexagon. Otherwise you will have problems with the morph, at least for clothing. What I believe happens is that it applies the scaling twice not sure why but I had a lot of frustration trying to do a morph that just kept coming in to DS as too small until I learned that trick.

  • Steve athomeSteve athome Posts: 348
    edited January 2013

    Pendraia said:
    Cool...just one thing as you mentioned scaling. If you are creating morphs for a figure that contains scaling you need to change the scale to 100% prior to exporting it to Hexagon. Otherwise you will have problems with the morph, at least for clothing. What I believe happens is that it applies the scaling twice not sure why but I had a lot of frustration trying to do a morph that just kept coming in to DS as too small until I learned that trick.

    It looks like DAZ have made some changes.

    I have currently only looked at Genesis, but have found there is no need for scaling between DS and Hexagon, just change the "convert" option in DS.
    With DS, set the .obj export/import option to "Hexagon (1 unit = 1cm)" Leave scal at default 100%. In Hexagon, leave the import scale as default = 1.000, the "Unit of the file" as default =None.
    With the scene units (in Hexagon) at default (1 unit = 1cm), genesis imports to Hexagon at 179.798cm tall (5.898 feet), which I think would be correct.

    When sending .obj file back, again leave Hexagon at those defaults, and set DS to .obj import to "Hexagon (1 unit = 1cm)", scale 100%, which brings Genesis back at same size as exported.

    Post edited by Steve athome on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Cool...just one thing as you mentioned scaling. If you are creating morphs for a figure that contains scaling you need to change the scale to 100% prior to exporting it to Hexagon. Otherwise you will have problems with the morph, at least for clothing. What I believe happens is that it applies the scaling twice not sure why but I had a lot of frustration trying to do a morph that just kept coming in to DS as too small until I learned that trick.

    It looks like DAZ have made some changes.

    I have currently only looked at Genesis, but have found there is no need for scaling between DS and Hexagon, just change the "convert" option in DS.
    With DS, set the .obj export/import option to "Hexagon (1 unit = 1cm)" Leave scal at default 100%. In Hexagon, leave the import scale as default = 1.000, the "Unit of the file" as default =None.
    With the scene units (in Hexagon) at default (1 unit = 1cm), genesis imports to Hexagon at 179.798cm tall (5.898 feet), which I think would be correct.

    When sending .obj file back, again leave Hexagon at those defaults, and set DS to .obj import to "Hexagon (1 unit = 1cm)", scale 100%, which brings Genesis back at same size as exported.

    sorry I may have confused you...I meant scaling on the figure itself. For example if the Genesis shape is scaled. You go to the parameters tab in DS and change the scaling back to 100%. Otherwise when you export it will cause problems.

    Sorry my bad I assumed you were as familiar with DS as I am.

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