New Teens Teeth Issue

135

Comments

  • MedzinMedzin Posts: 295
    edited December 2012

    sorry, wrong thread

    Post edited by Medzin on
  • HaruchaiHaruchai Posts: 264
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the fix Ebahr, appreciated.

    Hopefully an official fix will materialise as an bonus Xmas present.

    Looking back at the promos maybe we should ask Joelegecko what they did. The only promos that show teeth fixed are either their product or promos that bear their definite stamp. Compare the main promo image for Pink Ink and several of the promo images for Flower Power. The issue was there all along I just didn't see it in the rush to checkout with the discount.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,936
    edited December 1969

    Unmasked use of the smoothing brush, somewhere along the line was the cause...the question is when/where in the chain did it happen.

    I've got a pretty good idea of what Ebahr's morph does, so if the original problem is far enough back in the chain, then something like that will need to be applied, permanently...short of going back and rebuilding the morphs from scratch. Actually, it may be better to apply a fix morph like that, anyway...who knows what will have to be 'undone' to get the teeth back...and possibly if it is, the end results won't be the same (so there'd be two versions).

  • edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Unmasked use of the smoothing brush, somewhere along the line was the cause...the question is when/where in the chain did it happen.

    I've got a pretty good idea of what Ebahr's morph does, so if the original problem is far enough back in the chain, then something like that will need to be applied, permanently...short of going back and rebuilding the morphs from scratch. Actually, it may be better to apply a fix morph like that, anyway...who knows what will have to be 'undone' to get the teeth back...and possibly if it is, the end results won't be the same (so there'd be two versions).

    It's really easy to make that mistake in ZBrush, too. I always remember (now) to hide the eyes, but have forgotten the inner mouth several times. I had a base for this morph already that I using to correct some of my own errors- It pretty much is a slight "inflate", the using a move topological to adjust to tooth shaping a little bit, so they didn't look so balloned after inflating. A morph style fix should help with any head morphs that have the teeth smoothed out too much like that, too.

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 871
    edited December 2012

    mjc1016 said:
    Unmasked use of the smoothing brush, somewhere along the line was the cause...the question is when/where in the chain did it happen.

    I've got a pretty good idea of what Ebahr's morph does, so if the original problem is far enough back in the chain, then something like that will need to be applied, permanently...short of going back and rebuilding the morphs from scratch. Actually, it may be better to apply a fix morph like that, anyway...who knows what will have to be 'undone' to get the teeth back...and possibly if it is, the end results won't be the same (so there'd be two versions).

    one way to do that in zbrush would be as follows

    take default genesis, reposition it so that it's teeth are in the right place for justin, store that as a morph target, load the teen figure in over genesis, mask everything but the teeth and use the morph target brush to restore them to default.

    tweak if necessary

    load the fixed teeth into studio through morph loader pro, use reverse deformations, set them as an morph that applies multiply style when justin is dialed in, hide the new fix morph mcm and pretend like you never made the mistake in the first place.

    A similar setup could be done with Ebahr's fix morphs.

    Post edited by JoeQuick on
  • edited December 1969

    Here's my first Justin teeth render. I went the Hitomi morph route

    JustinTeethPW.jpg
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  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 3,125
    edited December 2012

    As I noted Waaaay back in the beginning of the thread, there are a couple of quick fixes. The smothing teeth option for a number of the toon characters... which comes with Hitomi, Hiro 5 and... I believe, 3D universes figures, which are on sale this weekend... does a bang up job of fixing the problem. (See attached close-up from an image of Julie I'm working on.) I usually don't like the overly defined look that straight renders of the teeth in most Daz figures usually have anyway, as real mouths normally have an obscuring sheen of saliva that blurs the teeth together, so ever since I discovered the smoothing tooth function on Hitomi, I use it to some degree on practically everything except broad grins. It just looks more like the way a photographic camera images real teeth.

    smoothing_teeth.jpg
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    Post edited by Cybersox13 on
  • edited December 1969

    Joequick said:

    one way to do that in zbrush would be as follows (snip)

    Very nice advice there, I had to print that out for later use, TY. I have a few morphs I've been working on for ElfQuest style chara's, and using that method would help me tremendously on tweaking.

    @TZorg Very cool. The Hitomi route works really well. I'm happy there's a lot of different ways to get past this issue. :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,588
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...so much for doing a giggly Leela.

    From what I have seen in the past, Thorne pays a great deal of attention to small details and something like this would never have passed by into the final product release. True, Daz had the characters "on ice" for several months after buying them and it is unknown what took place in that time. Whether any additional "editing" was done is unknown but wouldn't be beyond possibility since Daz, effectively owned the meshes. Why they would mess up the teeth though doesn't make sense.

    It simply would make no sense to me why anyone at DAZ would mess with a morph. It's my understanding that they sometimes will correct paths and what not but not over haul a morph or texture set. If that's needed they send it back to the originating merchant to fix or update.

  • edited December 1969

    Your pic looks awesome Cybersox.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,588
    edited December 1969

    Ebahr said:
    Not a fix, per-say, but an option that can be used until something more official is in place:
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/66439/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Teeth-Morph-Adjustments--Genesis-Teens-DS4.5

    As said on SCG: DS 4.5 YT 5: A temp fix, of sorts, for the YT5 teeth. Not meant as a solution, only as a stop-gap till better comes along. :)
    Teeth Adjustment 2 and 3 (inc) are just fine tuners for the tooth shapes

    Should work alright. :)
    Note: Shown on Justin. The values for Julie are a little lower: Somewhere around 60% of Teeth Adjustment, and the shapers until you have what you want. Have fun :)

    Very nice. Thanks so much for the nice fix! It's perfect! :-)

  • yoyodyne5yoyodyne5 Posts: 71
    edited December 2012

    I cannot believe this wasn't tested. How something like this gets past QC is beyond me. Yet another DAZ fail.

    There better be an official fix for this soon or I'm just getting a refund. We shouldn't be paying for additional stuff just to get "normal" teeth.

    Post edited by yoyodyne5 on
  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 3,125
    edited December 1969

    TZORG said:
    Your pic looks awesome Cybersox.

    Thanks :) The semi-final version is up in the official render thread now. I'm having a blast with the new teens and Satsuki, as I'm finally getting exactly the right look for my younger characters.

  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 458
    edited December 1969

    Ebahr said:
    Not a fix, per-say, but an option that can be used until something more official is in place:
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/66439/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Teeth-Morph-Adjustments--Genesis-Teens-DS4.5

    As said on SCG: DS 4.5 YT 5: A temp fix, of sorts, for the YT5 teeth. Not meant as a solution, only as a stop-gap till better comes along. :)
    Teeth Adjustment 2 and 3 (inc) are just fine tuners for the tooth shapes

    Should work alright. :)
    Note: Shown on Justin. The values for Julie are a little lower: Somewhere around 60% of Teeth Adjustment, and the shapers until you have what you want. Have fun :)

    Nice Work!

  • PantherTOPantherTO Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    The merchants that created this product should be making a fix and update, folks shouldn't have to look for other solutions. From my own experiences in ZBrush using the smoothing brush without masking the inner mouth can cause this to happen as well as exporting the Genesis figure at High Rez... Genesis should always be exported at the lowest rez to any modeling app to avoid these sorts of issues with just about everything with detail. I found it also causes loss in ear detail and the nostrils to shrink and smooth out too much. Again, you should NOT have to be looking around for fixes. The merchants need to fix their product.

    Agreed, was considering this product. The Faces of Teens promo images, the 2nd image has 5 or 6 open mouth shots. And the teeth look fine. Perhaps this is a plan to sell products with bad teeth, then sell this upcoming Dental Plan product for a lot.

    To the Author of Young Teens 5, just fix it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 2012

    RAMWolff said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...so much for doing a giggly Leela.

    From what I have seen in the past, Thorne pays a great deal of attention to small details and something like this would never have passed by into the final product release. True, Daz had the characters "on ice" for several months after buying them and it is unknown what took place in that time. Whether any additional "editing" was done is unknown but wouldn't be beyond possibility since Daz, effectively owned the meshes. Why they would mess up the teeth though doesn't make sense.

    It simply would make no sense to me why anyone at DAZ would mess with a morph. It's my understanding that they sometimes will correct paths and what not but not over haul a morph or texture set. If that's needed they send it back to the originating merchant to fix or update.


    ...fair enough, however I still find it difficult that something this glaring would have been missed by a PA who is so detail oriented.


    ...that aside, would the teeth morph for 3DU's Amy work as a temporary fix (she's the only Toon character I have with such a morph)

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 939
    edited December 1969

    KK if Amy has a tooth smothing dial it should work fine on Justin or Julie ,that's the plus of Genesis.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 1969

    ...thanks, I''ll give that a try when I get home.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,588
    edited December 1969

    The freebie that was put up on ShareCG works very well. There are 3 strengths too. So nicely thought out.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 1969

    ...so I have the teeth fix extracted. Where do I put it?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,588
    edited December 2012

    It's a data folder... just drop the Data folder from the zip into My Library and it will go where it's supposed to go (If your using Windows this is what's done. If your using MAC I think there is another way to do this but not sure of HOW to do that without it overwriting the entire Data folder). Once installed simply start a new instance of Genesis and it will be there under Actor, front and center called "DVL-LVD".

    MyLibrary-Data.jpg
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    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 1969

    ...again, thank you.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,588
    edited December 1969

    My pleasure! Hope it solved your question. :-)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 1969

    ...it did.

    Now my Leela can have her goofy smile back.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,642
    edited December 1969

    Hmm.

    I probably wouldn't have noticed, but when we met with my Sister-in-law and her family for the holiday today, I noticed that my 16-year old nephew's teeth aren't as tightly together as adult teeth. They aren't as gapped as a toddlers, but there were definite gaps. Gaps which I wouldn't have noticed at all except for this thread.

    So a full fix may not be as accurate as we thought.

    Or my nephew just has gaps in his teeth. :)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,936
    edited December 1969

    Or my nephew just has gaps in his teeth. :)

    ]

    My daughter (16) has practically no gaps...

    And according to a couple of dental sites and my family dentist, by about age 14 the teeth should be pretty much in the adult position/configuration.

    But since Ebahr's fix and Zev's upcoming dental package, are slider based, we can adjust things how we want them to be.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 2012

    ...after all this I notice when using the Teen IBL lights, the teeth don't show at all. Strange...

    ------

    OK even stranger (and highly annoying). Made two minor adjustments, one to the specular and the other to the ambient colour of the teeth to see if that would help them to show up better. The result was the the render process would crash at about 98% complete.

    What is really idiotic about this is that this afternoon when I did the first render using the Teen IBL lights, the process completed even though I was online at the same time.

    When I attempted the render tests with the changes, I was not only offline but also closed all unnecessary processes. I cannot believe that a simple colour change would have caused this. I had not changed the lighting, nor any of the surface settings save for the lighting model for the teeth to "plastic". The reflectivity index was 0% so that wasn't the reason.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ThorneThorne Posts: 89
    edited December 1969

    okay I just got back from my vacation in sunny Queensland :) I was made aware of this and since I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, I can't tell you if it was that way in the original morph (which is actually not accurate since there were at least 3 "originals" and a lot of work done by both DAZ and myself after original submission, during any of which times this could have slipped in).

    I will make a permanent fix which will be easy enough and post it here as well as give it as an update to DAZ. There will also be a permanent fix to the base morph as an update to the package so in future there will be no problems. Hopefully I can get this done in the next day or so.

    Thanks for your patience and I apologize on behalf of DAZ and myself for the inconvenience this has no doubt caused.

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    C.

  • edited January 2013

    Welcome back, and hopefully your vacation went well. :) Look forward to the fix, and thank you for taking care of it this quickly after your return.

    Post edited by e-bahr_b0b4c77606 on
  • yoyodyne5yoyodyne5 Posts: 71
    edited December 1969

    I hope you had a lovely holiday,. Thank you for looking into the issue in a timely manner. It is most appreciated.

    I am however, still appalled at the lack of QA by DAZ on this. Apparently, apart from Thorne, no-one at DAZ seems concerned enough with this issue to even warrant an official response on this thread. Sigh.

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