What toon figures do you use on Genesis?

SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
edited December 1969 in The Commons

If you use Genesis, what toon morphs do you use?


This is a serious question because I'm thinking of dropping support for The Girl 4. I don't see her in a lot of Genesis renders, her proportions make top support very difficult, and she does terrible things to UVs in the breast area. If I do that, I would probably replace her with another toon that is more popular with my target market (people who are interested in heavily morphing everyday clothing and occasional fantasy outfits).


These morphs don't matter to this consideration, as I will continue to support them regardless:

-Aiko 3, 4
-Hiro 3, 4, 5
-Hitomi
-Mavka


I'm more interested in whether you are using the Chibis, Amy, Sadie and Sam, or others like them that I currently do not support. You will still be able to autoconform anything, of course, but this affects whether I start doing customs for other toons.

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Comments

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 386
    edited December 1969

    How about smay's Nata For Genesis?

    It's the only toon I use for Genesis (so far), and I have seen others using her, including mixing her with other toons such as Hitomi, and A3.

    Not sure if it qualifies, or if the shape might be to close to The Girl 4 with regards to "up top", and UV distortions.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    No, that's in no way going to be easier, but I'd still do it if more people are using it than Girl 4. ;)

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    I've been trying to find a good base blend between 3DU's toons (Jasmin/Jason/Amy) and Aiko/Hiro/Hitomi (or would, if I had managed to afford Hitomi any of the times she's been on sale. Timing has yet to work out right on that one) for a project that is continually buzzing around in my head for a while. But I don't use any of the toons at full strength.

  • DogzDogz Posts: 713
    edited December 2012

    I totally feel your pain Sickle, the Girls '4s boobage is taxing to accomadate, It needs loads more geometry than the Vickis, Aikos and the like and it warps the living hell out of the UVs too... For this reason I dont really support TG4 from above the waist, its just too much of a headache.
    IMO It is not very reasonable to expect custom fits for ALL of the ever increasing supply of genesis shapes, (and anyone who think it is - should maybe try and do it themselves to see how much work it is)
    ...so yes we have to choose a 'selection' based on popularity.

    And for the record, I sometimes dial in a tiny bit Aiko but thats it. Im not really a 'toon' person.

    Post edited by Dogz on
  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 2012

    I see a LOT of 3DU's Jazlyn showing up in deviantART's 3D females render category. She shows up as often as one or two a day, and never more than a week between sightings. Jazlyn is still pretty top heavy, but without the extremely thin waist of The Girl. The only artist I really see using The Girl regularly on dA is rrward, but he's using the gen 4 version in Poser, not Genesis. I also see Amy somewhat regularly in that category, though she's not top-heavy at all in her default form. Jasmin shows up from time to time, but she's not particularly extreme in bodyshape, either. I have yet to see anyone on dA use Sadie or Sam. I can't remember the last time I saw Nata, either. I suspect most Mavka sightings are the gen 4 version, not Genesis.

    I don't really do straight-up "toon" renders, myself. But I often mix a bit of Hitomi's or Jazlyn's body (only -- no head) into my fantasy characters. Usually no more than about 20%. I remains to be seen if Satsuki takes off in popularity, but she's also a spectacular morph set.

    Post edited by cwichura on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,368
    edited December 1969

    The toons I use with Genesis currently are:

    Sadie and Sam
    Toon Amy
    Aiko and Hiro
    Hitomi
    Asobi

    With most of those I tend to mix/match morphs a fair bit. Sam and Sadie are largely exceptions to this because they're so heavily stylised, but there are a few blends I use. I haven't found anything which compared to ChibiBel or BelBel yet, so I still use some older figures alongside Genesis. Using the Aiko/Hiro morphs I can sort of get a closer version, but ChibiBel is too unique a character to match using presets alone.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 2012

    Another thing to consider on the "supporting the top-heavy" issue: if you look at dA, you'll see that even the "regular" shapes (V4/V5/A4/etc) very frequently have their breasts dialed up to The Girl sizes. And that's probably a much bigger market segment than the specialized figures are. So assuming that creating a mesh that supports The Girl sized breast expansion is ubiquitous across all female shapes, I'd argue it still makes sense to put the work in to support this. Instead of a grid of quads across the chest, it means a bit more of a concentric circle arrangement, much like Genesis's own mesh is for the breasts. I know some are concerned with poly counts, but my counter argument to that is design it like Genesis, with subd in mind. You can have the subd default to off, and will probably look fine when the figure is not top-heavy. Those that do use top-heavy figures can always enable the subd.

    You still have the UV stretching issue, though I suppose one possibility for that is to include a switchable UV mapping for the conformer. But admittedly, that is additional work for the content creator to do.

    Post edited by cwichura on
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    Another thing to consider on the "supporting the top-heavy" issue: if you look at dA, you'll see that even the "regular" shapes (V4/V5/A4/etc) very frequently have their breasts dialed up to The Girl sizes. And that's probably a much bigger market segment than the specialized figures are. So assuming that creating a mesh that supports The Girl sized breast expansion is ubiquitous across all female shapes, I'd argue it still makes sense to put the work in to support this. Instead of a grid of quads across the chest, it means a bit more of a concentric circle arrangement, much like Genesis's own mesh is for the breasts. I know some are concerned with poly counts, but my counter argument to that is design it like Genesis, with subd in mind. You can have the subd default to off, and will probably look fine when the figure is not top-heavy. Those that do use top-heavy figures can always enable the subd.

    You still have the UV stretching issue, though I suppose one possibility for that is to include a switchable UV mapping for the conformer. But admittedly, that is additional work for the content creator to do.

    I'm going to disagree on the feature being worth the extra work, if only because most of Sickleyield's clothing falls under the "practical, normal folk wear" as opposed to the "I have Boobs, bow before me!" sexy-type clothes. So most of her customer base aren't likely to put characters with over-sized breasts in her clothes. (There will always be exceptions, of course.) At least, not that I've seen at dA and other places. (I'm not sure that dA should be the primary measure of how the figures are being used either. I'd at least give equal weight to Renderosity and RDNA galleries, even if Genesis is a less frequent figure there.)

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 2,764
    edited December 2012

    If all SY stuff was boring wear I would never buy any. I can't agree with the "practical, normal folk wear" comment. And that is no slight against SY. I don't count the large variety of fantasy pieces as practical is all.(practical normal wear is not fantasy at all) But I'm not going to vote here since SY already will continue to support my main toon figures.

    I have most of 3DU's toons and never use them (so I stopped buying them). I haven't used G4 since I left V4. The Aiko's and Hitomi get top usage with a bit of Chibi girl and Mavka/Nata.

    Edit: guess that counts as a vote then lol.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    dA is obviously only one representation. But there's so much stuff posted there, it does give you at least some insight into what people like to render. And while it's been ages since I last bothered looking through Renderosity's gallery (which is a spectacularly out-of-date web app that is painful to use), what I remember of it, I'd say content posted there wasn't much different than what you find on dA. dA just tends to split it up a bit more between what category the stuff is posted to (e.g., the 3D females gallery does tend to have a lot of T&A, but other categories like the fantasy & scifi scenes cover a lot of the other stuff you find at Renderosity). I've never looked at RDNA's gallery -- frankly, I didn't even know they had one.

    I'll also argue that you see big breasts even with "practical" clothing, and not just the skankwear stuff. But if you look at my dA gallery, it should be no surprise where my bias lies... :)

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 2,764
    edited December 2012

    Well to be fair DA is larger than both RNDA and RR...Even if you were to just focus on groups centered around Daz and poser. trying to dismiss (or minimize) dA just becasue of the TNA would be detrimental to anybody in the premade art business.

    But a nugget of info since I am the founder/contributor to many dA groups. most people don't care if the cloths fit right, they don't know any better LOL. it's sad but true.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,555
    edited December 1969

    cwichura, it looks like your definition of "over-sized breasts" and mine are a bit different. From your gallery, you like 'em large, but not freakishly so. My definition of over-sized is "You're kidding! That's got to hurt even with support!" complete with sympathy back pain (and I'm only a C cup). (Think Dolly Parton, poor woman, or larger.) And when I see those in 3D renders, they're usually bare, or barely covered. Or maybe I just have bad luck with when I go through the dA gallery. :)

    The Girl 4, in her full state, is at the very front edge of this definition, for me, and mostly because of her wasp-ish waist. So I'm not convinced that supporting the Girl 4 shape for Genesis clothing is really required.

  • Eustace ScrubbEustace Scrubb Posts: 1,368
    edited December 2012

    Does JoeQuick's "Mr Simian" count? I'd say he's my favorite toonshape.

    cwichura, it looks like your definition of “over-sized breasts” and mine are a bit different. From your gallery, you like ‘em large, but not freakishly so. My definition of over-sized is “You’re kidding! That’s got to hurt even with support!” complete with sympathy back pain (and I’m only a C cup). (Think Dolly Parton, poor woman, or larger.) And when I see those in 3D renders, they’re usually bare, or barely covered. Or maybe I just have bad luck with when I go through the dA gallery. :)

    The Girl 4, in her full state, is at the very front edge of this definition, for me, and mostly because of her wasp-ish waist. So I’m not convinced that supporting the Girl 4 shape for Genesis clothing is really required.


    From the sound of it, she really does need support! Full-coverage genuine-whalebone corset, perhaps?

    Post edited by Eustace Scrubb on
  • PennamePenname Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Definitely what one owns and what one uses are distinct categories, at least for me. Aiko 3 is my favourite, but I prefer the original to the Genesis morph, Hitomi/Asobi is my go-to Genesis toon gal (for now; I'm so fickle) and I have a weakness for Chibi, but I've taken V3 clothing, auto-fitted and had them look stunning on Chibi so I don't think she needs separate morphs myself. Now for the Girl, she can look so gorgeous in some things (corsets come to mind) but it's a certain look that's not appropriate for all situations, I'm a huge Sickle Yield fan and wouldn't stop buying if there were no Girl morphs. Personally I don't buy based on the supported morphs; it fits Genesis and either looks good or doesn't. If not, I try something else.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    it looks like your definition of "over-sized breasts" and mine are a bit different. From your gallery, you like 'em large, but not freakishly so.

    I'd say that's accurate of my tastes. I like large, but still something that you can find in the real world (albeit most likely as the result of implants). (FWIW, my general starting point when creating a new character is breast size .85, breast implant .5.) The super-ginormous breasts you see a lot of on dA I don't generally find all that appealing. I don't own The Girl, so I've never actually loaded her up to compare, but from looking at renders others have posted of her over the years, I always equated her bust to around the same size as what I typically render; they just seem larger due to the proportional difference to her waist, as you point out as well.

    And to be clear, my lobbying for proper breast support in clothing items is for the sizes I typically render (which again, I always felt The Girl was similar to), not the super-ginormous stuff. I don't think the folks creating the super-ginormous breast renders even want clothing to cover them, even if the clothing existed. (And let's face it, those renders are always topless because there isn't any clothing that would fit them unless they've made it themselves.)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 2012

    First of all, what are your search terms that are finding all of this on DA, or is this a group you're watching? It would be nice to be able to at least survey what's there. I'm not targeting the "anime copyright violation" market, which is a lot of DA's toon renders that I've seen. I know there are also some there by really outstanding renderers like Mattymanx that use more stylized characters in original scenes, though.


    On the macro breasts and alternate modeling issue:


    That's asking me to do a lot of extra work to support something that 1. I don't care for and 2. no other artist really supports. I'm fine with people liking big breasts, even giant ones, but I'm not going to spend the hours looking at them that it would take to support them (pun intended).


    I do support the PBMBreastsCleavage morph on outfits with necklines low enough for that to be relevant now, and occasionally the Heavy and Large ones. That's about as far as I'm prepared to go. I categorically refuse to mess with V5's silly weird-shaped breast collection.


    I'm sorry more people haven't shown interest in Asobi. She's very pretty and doesn't cause the AUGH KILL IT WITH FIRE reaction I feel toward the really chibis. :-D

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,172
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    I don't think the folks creating the super-ginormous breast renders even want clothing to cover them, even if the clothing existed. (And let's face it, those renders are always topless because there isn't any clothing that would fit them unless they've made it themselves.)

    That is one of the beauty's of genesis, i can nearly get any top to fit genesis and if not perfect, apply the smoothing modifier and viola! If anything i would love a realistc spandex morph in any further clothing I purchase.

    Is it really needed to add morphs for genesis clothing since it seems like any clothing I use, either gen 4 or gen 3 works well with autofit. I don't even look at morphs any more, just adjustment ones for special movement.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    I don't think the folks creating the super-ginormous breast renders even want clothing to cover them, even if the clothing existed. (And let's face it, those renders are always topless because there isn't any clothing that would fit them unless they've made it themselves.)

    That is one of the beauty's of genesis, i can nearly get any top to fit genesis and if not perfect, apply the smoothing modifier and viola! If anything i would love a realistc spandex morph in any further clothing I purchase.

    Is it really needed to add morphs for genesis clothing since it seems like any clothing I use, either gen 4 or gen 3 works well with autofit. I don't even look at morphs any more, just adjustment ones for special movement.

    Which is fine if you mostly use things that are bras, corsets, armor, or have a plunging neckline. In those cases having the fabric stick to each breast isn't that unrealistic. In a button-down shirt or loose cloth item, it looks wrong on anyone larger than pettanko-sized.


    (There's nothing wrong with liking that either, mind you.)

  • gingercakes47gingercakes47 Posts: 365
    edited December 1969

    Besides the ones you listed I use Asobi, Nata and Chibi (not usually alone but combo).

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 3,780
    edited December 1969

    A use Nata a lot, I also use the Girl, I use alot of little bits of alot of different characters dialed in. I also use Asobi to some degree in alot of my faces, because of the way Genesis is you might not realise what people have dialed in.

  • SpitSpit Posts: 1,584
    edited December 1969

    I probably shouldn't weigh in because I haven't used Genesis all that much until lately---been busy with other things the last few months and have rendered very little, and my Studio activity has been mostly limited to file organization and installation. I haven't even tried all the shapes yet. But the ones that appeal to me the most for use in what I do are not the Girl 4 types anyway. Mavka, Hitomi, and smay's chibi's are the ones I use the most for mixing. At least so far.

    I'm hoping and hoping and hoping that Nursoda discovers Genesis but his characters aren't big-boobed anyway.

    As for the more toony ones, I fully expect to be using each and every 3D Universe character I can get my paws on.

  • MCMXCMCMXC Posts: 203
    edited December 2012

    "anime copyright violation" market

    What is???

    Anyway, I'm wondering if it's possible for Genesis to have "rounded eyes" like the figure Kururu, who is a very good figure for anime characters...
    (...and to do Miku Hatsune...)

    Post edited by MCMXC on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,368
    edited December 1969

    First of all, what are your search terms that are finding all of this on DA, or is this a group you're watching? It would be nice to be able to at least survey what's there. I'm not targeting the "anime copyright violation" market, which is a lot of DA's toon renders that I've seen. I know there are also some there by really outstanding renderers like Mattymanx that use more stylized characters in original scenes, though.


    On the macro breasts and alternate modeling issue:


    That's asking me to do a lot of extra work to support something that 1. I don't care for and 2. no other artist really supports. I'm fine with people liking big breasts, even giant ones, but I'm not going to spend the hours looking at them that it would take to support them (pun intended).


    I do support the PBMBreastsCleavage morph on outfits with necklines low enough for that to be relevant now, and occasionally the Heavy and Large ones. That's about as far as I'm prepared to go. I categorically refuse to mess with V5's silly weird-shaped breast collection.


    I'm sorry more people haven't shown interest in Asobi. She's very pretty and doesn't cause the AUGH KILL IT WITH FIRE reaction I feel toward the really chibis. :-D

    I love Asobi, but then I'm one of those types who doesn't really go with the huge implant-overload breasts which seem to dominate some character designs.

    I've always preferred the 'normal' look. Even women with particularly large breasts generally aren't as well endowed as a lot of art would like to portray them. I'm also not a fan of the 'spherical' breasts which I've seen on some stylised character morphs, preferring to dial down the chest in favour of something a bit more breast shaped and a little less basketball.

    That being said. I've always preferred a nice bottom to a pair of breasts. Perhaps that has something to do with my preference for smaller frontage.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    MCMXC said:
    "anime copyright violation" market

    What is???

    Anyway, I'm wondering if it's possible for Genesis to have "rounded eyes" like the figure Kururu, who is a very good figure for anime characters...
    (...and to do Miku Hatsune...)

    Selling art of a character licensed for distribution the U.S. laws is a violation of their copyright and is illegal. This includes shows like Naruto and Bleach (the most common culprits) and characters like Miku Hatsune as well as charging for drawings of Harry Potter characters or DC/Marvel comics characters (also fairly common). You will see a lot of people doing it anyway, and getting away with it because the parent company hasn't noticed them yet and they are tiptoing around DA's terms of service (by accepting payment away from the site instead of selling prints).


    I don't see why the round eyes aren't possible. Hitomi's are pretty rounded already, and so are the chibis.

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 615
    edited December 1969

    If you use Genesis, what toon morphs do you use?


    This is a serious question because I'm thinking of dropping support for The Girl 4. I don't see her in a lot of Genesis renders, her proportions make top support very difficult, and she does terrible things to UVs in the breast area. If I do that, I would probably replace her with another toon that is more popular with my target market (people who are interested in heavily morphing everyday clothing and occasional fantasy outfits).


    These morphs don't matter to this consideration, as I will continue to support them regardless:

    -Aiko 3, 4
    -Hiro 3, 4, 5
    -Hitomi
    -Mavka


    I'm more interested in whether you are using the Chibis, Amy, Sadie and Sam, or others like them that I currently do not support. You will still be able to autoconform anything, of course, but this affects whether I start doing customs for other toons.

    So far, in addition to those you list, I use the Chibis, Amy, Jasmine, Jazlyn, Jason, Sadie, Sam, Old Man Rex and Nata. I absolutely love The Girl, but find that with Genesis I dial back the body and concentrate more on her beautiful face, which makes her fit in better with the other characters.

    Thanks for asking.

    -- Walt Sterdan

  • edited December 1969

    I went ahead and bought the Satsuki base figure last night. With her head scaled back 25% and Aiko 4 dialed in 25%, she made for an outstanding anime figure (to my eyes, of course). I think she'd be very nice mixed with Jazlyn, too, and with her texture and hair. However, I'm not sure you should start adding support for her. With her gentle curves, Autofit shouldn't have any trouble keeping up.

    And like the others, I think the G4 head shape is great but the body's a bit too much, at least for my tastes.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,368
    edited December 1969

    I went ahead and bought the Satsuki base figure last night. With her head scaled back 25% and Aiko 4 dialed in 25%, she made for an outstanding anime figure (to my eyes, of course). I think she'd be very nice mixed with Jazlyn, too, and with her texture and hair. However, I'm not sure you should start adding support for her. With her gentle curves, Autofit shouldn't have any trouble keeping up.

    And like the others, I think the G4 head shape is great but the body's a bit too much, at least for my tastes.

    I don't really consider Satsuki to be a toon morph. For a start she comes with a 'realistic' texture as opposed to a toon one. She's probably the closest thing we have to a late-teens morph though, which is wonderful for bridging some of the age gaps in the Genesis line. Also, I agree. Satsuki's morphs are wonderful for mixing.

  • MCMXCMCMXC Posts: 203
    edited December 1969

    I don't see why the round eyes aren't possible. Hitomi's are pretty rounded already, and so are the chibis.

    Yes, but I can't find the correct controls for shaping the eyes as I wish... maybe I need to buy some "expansion"?

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 779
    edited December 1969

    I constantly use Nata, mixed with Hitomi, chibi girl, toon amy and aiko 3. My boys are chibi boy, hiro 3 and jason. I want desperately Hiro 5 and mavka (gosha when he come), also with more patience old man rex, asobi for hitomi, Candy Factory for hitomi, and probably Kamiko and sadie/sam too. The girl is not in my plan, for sexy curvalicious I prefer Nata. Jazmin and Jazlyn are cute, but I think more in their clothes and hair.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,751
    edited December 2012

    ..the Genesis Toon characters I have are:

    3DU's Jasmin
    3DU's Amy
    3DU's Sadie
    3DU's Sam
    Smay's Nata
    Smay's Mavka

    It would be particularly nice to see more support for Nata. I think she is a bit "cuter" than G4.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
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