Satsuki for...

2

Comments

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,080
    edited December 2012

    navibass said:
    Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you're right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.

    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.

    The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I've ever seen). Too bad they didn't do again when working on Satsuki.

    Sarsa isn't Thorne. They work together. They also do a lot of work with Mada. But they all work separately too. And they all do still support Gen4 to at least some degree.

    What you say as to the amount of demand that exists for which figure would have been absolutely true a year ago. At this time last year it was mostly just the early adopters who were using Genesis, and there wasn't as much available (in pretty much any category you want to mention) *for* Genesis. Genesis only became available sometime around August 2011. DSON only became available at the end of October this year. That's something like 14 months that Poser users were shut out completely.

    But. In that 14 months a tremendous amount of development went on under the hood. We got a whole new version of the base program in that 14 months. As well as an explosion of morph packs and character design tools which could make Gen4 weep with envy -- and that's only the beginning it isn't going to taper off. It's still snowballing. Anyone who has been watching can see that this is probably going to be the direction that the technology is going to take. And it isn't for a lack of other candidates, either. There are other new weight-mapping systems out there. But they are tagged onto something that already existed. It seems to be an improvement, but it doesn't seem to be such an advantage when it comes time for people to actually adopt it, rather than just test it out.

    A lot of content creators are still playing "wait and see," although I gather that a lot of then *do* see, but they aren't eager to have to learn a whole new system of rigging. Which seems to be required to some degree in *either* case, and so far Genesis and its new tools, and its open-ended development track seem to be offering a few more possibilities than weight-mapping an older figure in order to fix some problems that people have been grousing about, but making do with in spite of it, for anything up to six years.

    Of course, we've got that 14 month delay, muddying the waters. I very much doubt that Poser users are having any worse problems with the DSON import than Studio users had with Genesis in DS4.0. But we (and the developers who adopted early) have got over that hump and the Poser users and the developers who've been playing a waiting game haven't, and it's probably not going to be any prettier for them than it was for us. But it will probably be worth it.

    Hell, I still see the occasional thing brought out for Aiko3. And we've been having Vintage 'Toon appreciation month for figures sitting in the DeepFreeze over on RDNA. But the fact is, that content for Genesis is more likely to be purchased (especially here) just because Genesis users don't have six years worth of content sitting in their runtimes. We're hungry.

    Post edited by JOdel on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,405
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Thank you for the thumbs :) ,i've already got them :)


    Yeah, me too. Not a V4 user but at least I can use the skins for Genesis

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,080
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    navibass said:
    Thank you for the thumbs :) ,i've already got them :)


    Yeah, me too. Not a V4 user but at least I can use the skins for Genesis

    They're lovely skins, too.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    navibass said:
    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.


    You are not wrong to feel that way and you're not alone either. I had simular feelings when the Gen3 line up was discontinued.

    A thought on the Genesis only part. DAZ3D did buy the character from Thorne & Sarsa so they might have done it for Genesis at the request of DAZ3D.


    Btw, did you need V4 characters?

    I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )

    I have owned and used all of the DAZ figures up until now I can honestly say I didn't have an attachment to any particular one. I used them all...so for me Genesis is a major breakthrough as I only have to buy the one set of clothing not buy it by 4 because I want to be able to use it with a variety of characters.

    Hugs

    Pen

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    navibass said:
    Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you're right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.

    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.

    The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I've ever seen). Too bad they didn't do again when working on Satsuki.

    Sarsa isn't Thorne. They work together. They also do a lot of work with Mada. But they all work separately too. And they all do still support Gen4 to at least some degree.

    What you say as to the amount of demand that exists for which figure would have been absolutely true a year ago. At this time last year it was mostly just the early adopters who were using Genesis, and there wasn't as much available (in pretty much any category you want to mention) *for* Genesis. Genesis only became available sometime around August 2011. DSON only became available at the end of October this year. That's something like 14 months that Poser users were shut out completely.

    But. In that 14 months a tremendous amount of development went on under the hood. We got a whole new version of the base program in that 14 months. As well as an explosion of morph packs and character design tools which could make Gen4 weep with envy -- and that's only the beginning it isn't going to taper off. It's still snowballing. Anyone who has been watching can see that this is probably going to be the direction that the technology is going to take. And it isn't for a lack of other candidates, either. There are other new weight-mapping systems out there. But they are tagged onto something that already existed. It seems to be an improvement, but it doesn't seem to be such an advantage when it comes time for people to actually adopt it, rather than just test it out.

    A lot of content creators are still playing "wait and see," although I gather that a lot of then *do* see, but they aren't eager to have to learn a whole new system of rigging. Which seems to be required to some degree in *either* case, and so far Genesis and its new tools, and its open-ended development track seem to be offering a few more possibilities than weight-mapping an older figure in order to fix some problems that people have been grousing about, but making do with in spite of it, for anything up to six years.

    Of course, we've got that 14 month delay, muddying the waters. I very much doubt that Poser users are having any worse problems with the DSON import than Studio users had with Genesis in DS4.0. But we (and the developers who adopted early) have got over that hump and the Poser users and the developers who've been playing a waiting game haven't, and it's probably not going to be any prettier for them than it was for us. But it will probably be worth it.

    Hell, I still see the occasional thing brought out for Aiko3. And we've been having Vintage 'Toon appreciation month for figures sitting in the DeepFreeze over on RDNA. But the fact is, that content for Genesis is more likely to be purchased (especially here) just because Genesis users don't have six years worth of content sitting in their runtimes. We're hungry.

    Really well said Jodel! I wish I had been able to say it as clearly as you have...

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,405
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )

    Hugs

    Pen

    No worries Pen. There was nothing you said that was offensive to me.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,177
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you're right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.

    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.

    The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I've ever seen). Too bad they didn't do again when working on Satsuki.

    Just to be clear, DS 4.5 is a DAZ application and genesis is their flagship product, so in that context genesis IS the standard figure here. DAZ is simply supporting their software with Genesis content, fair or not. Also you have products made by vendors here for themselves and products made by vendors here for specific DAZ launches to support DAZ only figures, which seems to be the case with this character.

    It helps if you don't think of the DAZ store as just a place to get poser content, it is mainly a place to get DAZ content, which sometimes works in poser.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Pendraia said:
    I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )

    Hugs

    Pen

    No worries Pen. There was nothing you said that was offensive to me.


    Cool...its just so easy on the net for stuff you say to not express clearly what you think it does.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,134
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Taozen said:
    Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.

    YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.

    OK, will try that, thanks!

  • adaceyadacey Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    One of the other things that people seem to neglect to mention when talking about Genesis is the UV swapping ability and how useful that can be.

    For one of my RRR entries last month I was working on a hag figure. I dialed in a lot of full body morphs to varying strengths like emaciated and hag to get the overall look that I wanted. The genesis MFD still fit fine. But, here's the kicker, I was looking for a good texture to use for this. While digging through my runtimes I came across The Immortal. Great texture, but it's for M4. No problem, apply the MAT to my female hag figure and switch the UV map to M4, done. Good luck doing that with V4!

    Now maybe I'm in a bit of a different boat because I came to DAZ about a year ago after a very long hiatus (pre-Milenium Woman) so Genesis was already out. But, I almost never buy gen4 content, and when I do it's with Genesis in mind. I still haven't bought Gen X but I'll at least buy good looking textures from time to time (less often now as I have quite a few now). There's still a few characters that are tempting me in gen4 but it's much smaller and if anything it's pushing me to want to pick up genX so that I can use them with Genesis.

    The simple ability to mix and match morphs and having clothing and props generally just work is just awesome. Trolls in dresses aside, it's pretty cool to be able to throw in some Freak onto a troll and still put armour on him, or similar. It's not perfect but considering I remember days when the canned content that came with Poser wouldn't properly fit the base figure in the default pose. We've really come a long way.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,787
    edited December 1969

    Gollum: Genesis only? Genesis only? Arrgh! Gollum! We hates Daz!

    Smeagol: But Daz is our friend. Daz would never-

    Gollum: Daz is trickesy. So very tricksy. They seduces us with their sales, Makes us spend our discretionary income. Then, right before Christmas, they comes out with Satsuki. Satsuki! Even lovelier than Ksenia she is. And she's Genesis only!

    Smeagol: Perhaps we could trade the ring for her?

    Gollum: My precious? (Glances between ring and Satsuki store page several times.) Gollum! We hates Daz...forever!


    ...my notebook was almost coated in Earl Grey tea reading this.

    Great job.


    That aside I picked her up. Heck for 2.31$ (after using my PC coupon), a steal for such a cutie who will also work beautifully for a teen character.

  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 2,978
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Mattymanx said:
    Taozen said:
    Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.


    YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.

    OK, will try that, thanks!

    Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.

    YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.

    OK, will try that, thanks!

    FWIW, the eyelashes can be dialed down or out to fit most needs, and the bottom ones pretty much disappear... this is a Satsuki/basic female combo using the Satsuki mats.

    Satsuki_Chasm_test_1.jpg
    1152 x 1490 - 144K
  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,132
    edited December 1969

    As a Genesis user, there are V4 characters that I haven't bought because I felt a Genesis version could've been included (when paying a premium price, I want to see "official" Genesis version rather than relying purely on GenX conversion myself)... So I suppose it's swings-and-roundabouts to a certain degree.

    But gotta say, Satsuki's shaping options are quite exquisite - this is breast preset 1 combined with hips preset 2, and full belly applied...

    Satsuki_Test.jpg
    800 x 1265 - 486K
  • IVSMAIVSMA Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    All I can say is that Satsuki finally inspired me to complete my first image using DS4.5.
    Love all from Thorne and Sarsa so this is no exception!
    I used to think, why isn’t there a V4 version, every time a new Genesis character came out but I think it’s just a matter of getting used to the new and running with it.

    ;-) :-)

    Satsuki_TEST.jpg
    627 x 917 - 111K
  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,473
    edited December 1969

    One thing that may not be clear is how the workflow of making this kind of character goes - If you make your morphs in zbrush or another "mesh sculpting" app rather than by using dials, you have to start with the base mesh and work on it until it has the shapes you want. If you start with the V4 base mesh, you can port the finished character to Genesis using Gen X and then tweak it, but if you start with the Genesis mesh, you can't make the same port in reverse - you would have to re-do your work all over again for V4. And if you're sculpting, the Genesis base mesh starts out as grey, flat chested, etc - it's great if you want to sculpt a woman figure from a kind of generic base without having to deal with the boobs and so on already being there. But it makes the process different, unless you start with the V4 shape for Genesis - and even then you'd have to do it twice. So when someone is inspired to do something "from scratch" for Genesis it's rarely practical and sometimes not even possible to do the same thing for V4.

    If you've only been using Poser for a year you might be surprised at how many gorgeous characters from Thorne & Sarsa are available for V4 - I have a huge heap of them, as well as a lot of their A3 characters, since she's my favorite figure. So if you're not ready to take the plunge with Genesis you might want to look through their catalog and see if there's another character who would like to join your runtime, as sort of a consolation buy :)

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    In my latest attempt at rendering Black Alice I used Satsuki's body morph -- I like how versatile this is with the multiple morphs.

    DS4.5Pro render, postwork in GIMP. Larger version in my deviantART gallery here.

    Test of Time

    BlackAlice-TestOfTime-x2000.jpg
    2000 x 1600 - 1M
  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,473
    edited December 1969

    Hey looky! Thorne's got a new A4 character at 50% off. Nothing like Satsuki but very pretty nonetheless: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/barliecorn-for-aiko-4 and includes a 50% bonus sale on older Thorne characters.

  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,473
    edited December 1969

    That's cool, Kickair, I like the portal effect!

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Canary3d said:
    Hey looky! Thorne's got a new A4 character at 50% off. Nothing like Satsuki but very pretty nonetheless: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/barliecorn-for-aiko-4 and includes a 50% bonus sale on older Thorne characters.
    lol...I would like this character for Genesis! I did buy it though just to get the 50% off and bought all the resource packs from them. I suppose as I've bought Gen X I really should work out how to use it!

  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,473
    edited December 1969

    Gen X is amazing and makes it totally worth your money to keep buying Gen 4 and Gen 3 characters even if you only ever use Genesis! It takes some noodling to get used to but it's worth the effort. Being able to do mix-n-match with old favorite characters is really fun.

  • DogzDogz Posts: 713
    edited December 2012

    After getting the hang of Genesis and its capabilities, It soon became apparent that I was never going to be touching Gen 4 or Gen 3 again. For me It would be like going back to VHS after getting used to DVD & BluRay.
    I like progress and I want to embrace it where ever I reasonably can :)

    Post edited by Dogz on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,177
    edited December 1969

    Dogz said:
    After getting the hang of Genesis and its capabilities, It soon became apparent that I was never going to be touching Gen 4 or Gen 3 again. For me It would be like going back to VHS after getting used to DVD & BluRay.
    I like progress and I want to embrace it where ever I reasonably can :)

    But the great thing about using genesis and GenX is it is like being able to digitally remaster all your VHS goodies and burn them onto BluRay, so many amazing options for genesis including gen 3 and gen 4 clothing.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    The main interest I have in Barliecorn is the ear morphs, as there are quite a few variations and not ones you see in the typical "includes elf ear morph" that most fantasy characters come with. However, even with discount, I skipped it since it was a V4 product; it's Genesis that I could really use the ear morphs for. And while GenX is a nice tool, I don't own it and never will. I would rather support actual Genesis content when I am making purchasing decisions.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 287
    edited December 1969

    Canary3d said:

    If you've only been using Poser for a year you might be surprised at how many gorgeous characters from Thorne & Sarsa are available for V4 - I have a huge heap of them, as well as a lot of their A3 characters, since she's my favorite figure. So if you're not ready to take the plunge with Genesis you might want to look through their catalog and see if there's another character who would like to join your runtime, as sort of a consolation buy :)

    Thank you Canary3d, of course I don't have all of them, but I've got quite a bunch already :) , and catching up when I can.

    Just looking at Barliecorn as I type, would have preferred Satsuki, ideally, but it's so cute that it will go to my cart before tonight...

  • NaviNavi Posts: 287
    edited December 1969

    Ok, have to admit Barlie was a little bit more than just a "consolation buy" :) ... here is a quick test portrait. (my Poser had a strange 1DmkIII-style backfocus tonight, doesn't usually happen...).

    Barlie-portrait.jpg
    900 x 536 - 208K
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    The main interest I have in Barliecorn is the ear morphs, as there are quite a few variations and not ones you see in the typical "includes elf ear morph" that most fantasy characters come with. However, even with discount, I skipped it since it was a V4 product; it's Genesis that I could really use the ear morphs for. And while GenX is a nice tool, I don't own it and never will. I would rather support actual Genesis content when I am making purchasing decisions.
    This is normally my point of view also...however as I didn't have the resource packs for genesis it was worth investing $7 to get them all at half price.

    I do own Gen X I bought it to convert stuff I owned pre genesis but havent had the time to touch it yet!

    Canary, I must admit to feeling trepidation in using Gen X which is why I've put it off... : (

  • NaviNavi Posts: 287
    edited December 1969

    Here is another one, here with a little friend :) , isn't Barlie one of the most cute, if not the most cute, char Thorne has ever released ?

    Barliecorn.jpg
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  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,080
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    cwichura said:
    The main interest I have in Barliecorn is the ear morphs, as there are quite a few variations and not ones you see in the typical "includes elf ear morph" that most fantasy characters come with. However, even with discount, I skipped it since it was a V4 product; it's Genesis that I could really use the ear morphs for. And while GenX is a nice tool, I don't own it and never will. I would rather support actual Genesis content when I am making purchasing decisions.
    This is normally my point of view also...however as I didn't have the resource packs for genesis it was worth investing $7 to get them all at half price.

    I do own Gen X I bought it to convert stuff I owned pre genesis but havent had the time to touch it yet!

    Canary, I must admit to feeling trepidation in using Gen X which is why I've put it off... : (

    I've been wrestling with it. Half the time things seem to come in without much of a hitch, although it's frustrating when you bring in something and one element comes in too strong, so you never can use it at full strength.

    And then you'll hit a run of things that claim that there isn't a morph to import. Which means you have to try some hidden controls to see if that gets them into service.

    And sometimes you'll get the morph, but it brings in scaling that you have to go and undo whenever you try to apply it.

    It's still vastly better to have than to not have. And I'm finding that I really like to have expressions on dials rather than just on/off switches as they come in the packages.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Pendraia said:
    cwichura said:
    The main interest I have in Barliecorn is the ear morphs, as there are quite a few variations and not ones you see in the typical "includes elf ear morph" that most fantasy characters come with. However, even with discount, I skipped it since it was a V4 product; it's Genesis that I could really use the ear morphs for. And while GenX is a nice tool, I don't own it and never will. I would rather support actual Genesis content when I am making purchasing decisions.
    This is normally my point of view also...however as I didn't have the resource packs for genesis it was worth investing $7 to get them all at half price.

    I do own Gen X I bought it to convert stuff I owned pre genesis but havent had the time to touch it yet!

    Canary, I must admit to feeling trepidation in using Gen X which is why I've put it off... : (

    I've been wrestling with it. Half the time things seem to come in without much of a hitch, although it's frustrating when you bring in something and one element comes in too strong, so you never can use it at full strength.

    And then you'll hit a run of things that claim that there isn't a morph to import. Which means you have to try some hidden controls to see if that gets them into service.

    And sometimes you'll get the morph, but it brings in scaling that you have to go and undo whenever you try to apply it.

    It's still vastly better to have than to not have. And I'm finding that I really like to have expressions on dials rather than just on/off switches as they come in the packages.

    Jodel, could you please point me towards a good tutorial for beginners?

    Thanks

    Pen

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,080
    edited December 1969

    Well there's the basic one over in the thread. Otherwise I just had to ask questions and wait for answers. The developer is very good at respinding to questions.

    My own work is far from expert, but I am managing to bring a lot of the things in that I want to use. I'd a dozen or so characters built in Gen 4 that I needed to port over for future projects, and finally managed it. Plus a lot of stuff like RawArt's K4 morphs, and what all.

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