Daz needs to show more respect to the adult entertainment industry re: 3D content.

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Comments

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,131
    edited December 1969

    At the end of the day, it's about money... if DAZ believed they'd make a killing with a "fully functioning" Genesis, then I'm sure we'd see one in the store already. But most sales are clothing and scene props, so all the extra polygons would potentially slow down scene manipulation while remaining hidden from view for 99% of the time.

    If somebody was to release geograft expansions of exceptional detail at a reasonable price (I mean a proper job of it - front & back etc etc), I'm sure I would be at the front of the queue to get them, but I don't honestly see a good business case for DAZ to do it. If I believed that a good profit would be made from it, I'd take the time to model & test, and release it myself - but i don't, so I won't (not to mention that I'd need to improve my modelling skills)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    fixme12 said:
    Jabba101 said:
    Learn how to properly adjust Genesis, and learn some half-decent post work/digital painting techniques, then sky's the limit

    Yeah, how can people do that without a well written manual or very poor video tutorial section?
    that's where the first problem start...
    all what's left for many is try'll and error and lot's of frustration.
    at that last part, people just leave and go on with other things in life.
    and never look back.

    Unfortunately, this isn't where a DAZ manual comes in. You'll need an external modeling tool to adjust the mesh you can't do the adjusting in DS4.

    why not?
    daz can explain these secrets to it's customers with well done video tutorials to.

    that's no answer for me.

    Well, unfortunately being blunt, the big difference between being content providers and consumers. You didn't bother finding out. DAZ Studio isn't a full featured character creation application, but it offers a plug in to Zbrush. What does zbrush do? Character creation. So where should you start finding info about that? ZBRUSH. Then you find a wealth of information on building characters. All you need to do is either GoZ it back, or use Morph Loader Pro. DS also loads in obj files... what app exports objs? Most of them. So learning those app to create your content is where you start. That's why DAZ isn't going to be much help because there's so many ways to get there. You need to learn one whether it's 3DS Max, Blender, etc.


    ...yeah but for a lot of us, ZBrush and Max are a bit too rich for the budget so we have to make do with modelling apps like Hex or Blender (the latter which is very capable once you get a handle on it though).

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 2012

    Dogz said:
    ManStan said:
    What logic, it is a proven fact. Just because you chose not to believe it doesn't make it any less of a fact. As I said there have been dozens of clinical studies that prove it.

    So What? even if they are correct who gives a crap? I'm not specifically defending poser porn which is.... well very crude at best....But i do not accept the -"It offends me / might desensitized someone, so lets BAN IT" attitude. Because that is one hell of a can of worms to open, once you start, where do you stop?


    ...and when you do so, it just makes it all that more attractive because now it is "taboo" or "risque". (Most) Humans seem to have a unique fascination with that which is "outside the law".

    Yes it is strange that a hacked up body morph (with no content advisory "panel" like a couple other sites employ), blood splatter brushes/shaders, big guns, realistic looking swords, and other nasty implements of human demise can be freely shown, but even the hint of a bare backside in the bath or an idyllic pond is deemed "inappropriate".

    I feel that if we had a better appreciation of the human form, of it's natural beauty rather than obsession with the means to destroy it, we'd be better off.

    ...but that's just my two zloty's worth.

    Oh, and ManStan, you are no doubt "painfully" right about why Daz did not release a Gen4 teen and is most likely dragging their feet on a Genesis one. It's a sad statement, and one (at least for this Bushido Cowgirl) that makes it that much more difficult to create the character illustrations (fully clothed of course) that I need to accompany my writings. With the improved clothing fit tools and collision detection in today's 3D apps, poor or inaccurate anatomy and underlying joint structure directly affects just how good or bad clothing content drapes on and moves with a character.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • HenryChan2HenryChan2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Honestly, I'm shocked that people actually use DAZ/Poser for things other than porn. I can think of some commercial uses that don't involve adult but the real money is in the sex. DAZ should know better.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 415
    edited December 1969

    I'd be satisfied if someone could make a 3D figure that could smile naturally.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    ...+1

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 2012

    laksdfj said:
    Honestly, I'm shocked that people actually use DAZ/Poser for things other than porn. I can think of some commercial uses that don't involve adult but the real money is in the sex. DAZ should know better.

    DAZ sells to T&A fans and NormanRockwell-style artists alike by producing and broking art supplies that can be used equally well by either -- that's where the money is. The people who get rich during a gold rush aren't the miners, they're the people selling the miners' supplies.

    If you need more realism than DAZ's products supply then by all means speak up! If you get enough people on board then DAZ might see there's a demand that they can make money meeting. But if (as it appears here) you're one of only a few people who want or need this, then it's not really in DAZ's best interests to load the entire customer base up with features only a few will use -- you're better off asking PAs, or in this case off-site vendors.

    And from that "commercial uses" bit it seems you think that DAZ's market is made up of professional artists -- some are, certainly, but last I heard the overwhelming majority of us are amateurs, hobbyists who are doing this for fun.

    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    ...and some of us are doing it to tell a story


    Child of War

    I Won't Let Them Hurt You

    A Greater Gift

    A Captive Audience

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    It's DAZ's view of itself that's ridiculous.

    I couldn't agree more!


    Everybody knows what sells...including DAZ... Plugging your ears and closing your eyes while it happens just makes it look all that more foolish.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    I'd be satisfied if someone could make a 3D figure that could smile naturally.

    +2

  • jmperjmper Posts: 0
    edited December 2012

    There is porn on the internet? Well I...I mean...when did that happen???

    Post edited by jmper on
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    I still want skankwear for The DAZ Cow!

    Does the Cow take offense to wearing leather? Now that is extreme kink... :cheese:

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    All I can say is media has done a great job of dulling peoples moralistic compasses. The proof of this is any depiction of the brutalization of women or children being found acceptable. If you can some how defend this sort of "art" perhaps you need your compass checked.


    Yes porn is in the eye of the beholder, for me once it becomes a sex act it is porn. Nudity is not porn, a sensual embrace is not porn. But a good portion of what I see at renderO crosses over in to the "sick" category. And yes, that is a personal opinion.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,852
    edited December 2012

    Fauvist said:
    I'd be satisfied if someone could make a 3D figure that could smile naturally.

    Hmmm... recently I've been observing the way people smile. Oftentimes it scares the hell out of me! Especially women in beauty contests. So many big teeth! They look like they could chew you up in a second and not miss a step on the runway. And have you noticed the claws on those gals! 8-o

    Actually, I am able to get very nice little smiles from my characters. You have to be very subtle and make one side slightly more than the other. Don't show the teeth. Smiles are not all in the mouth. Cheeks raise a little, eyes open a little, nostrils twitch slightly, head cocks just the tiniest bit, and body language is important too. An honest smile is a glow, not a display of weapons. Big toothy smiles are, to me, a dead givaway of insincerity.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,769
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    All I can say is media has done a great job of dulling peoples moralistic compasses. The proof of this is any depiction of the brutalization of women or children being found acceptable. If you can some how defend this sort of "art" perhaps you need your compass checked.

    How come you continue with the attitude that all porn is about brutalization of women?

    Porn is about explicit showing of what is going on, about getting your rockets off.

    It is possible to have fun, nice, consensual and empowering porn as well.

    Here's a problem: lots of image sites keep going with the attitude "no no no no NO any kind of sex!", which means that of course all that questionable stuff stays out. But it also means that fun, nice, consensual and empowering sexy kind stays out as well. And when you're forced to use sites that allow really sleazy stuff... well. That's when funny things start to happen.

    A real life parallel here: Finland used to have (1980s-1990s) a law in books that forbade distributing (renting, selling) violent movies. Either a movie had to be censored for excessive violence (snipping away the offending parts), or if the company with distributing rights refused to, not sold/rented at all. People were, however, allowed to buy stuff from abroad for their own private use.

    Result: we developed an underground culture where people bought the most violent crap around, and copied it to their friends (who also copied it onwards). It was not worth getting stuff that was available with only couple of minutes or seconds of content snipped off -- people went hardcore. For example, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was completely forbidden from 1974 to 1996, hence reaching almost unparalled cult status as something everyone (who liked such movies even a little) should see.

    Earlier, we had the same thing happening with the Prohibition Laws -- people who had been happy with an occasional drink of ale or beer accompanying food, or a shot of spirits on Saturday evening in moderation, developed a taste for strong spirits, drunk in a wild spree. Why? Because any moment your smuggled drink could be taken away, so best to chug it down as fast as possible for the best possible buzz -- it simply wasn't worth getting a bottle of beer, and smugglers wouldn't sell it anyway. Prohibition was a solution in search of a problem, and ended up creating the problem itself.

    Currently, same sort of things are going on with the internet itself, of which I'm sure you can think of some examples yourself.

    It seems that the "problem" is a part of human psychology: What is it that you do not want to let me see? Humanity has worse curiosity than a cat.

    Another interesting factoid: humans aren't the only species who like to see the peculiarities of mating process. Pandas, for example, are getting a boost from being shown some panda pr0n (other pandas recorded in act of mating) in advance -- it apparently increases the chances of conception, thus getting more lovely baby pandas for us to ooooh and aaaah and squee over.

    So... tl;dr -- "not all porn is about degrading women, and sometimes the blocks erected have unintended consequences".

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 425
    edited December 1969

    what can you expect in anatomically realistic morphs?
    there isn't realistic areolas and nipple morphs for Genesis!!
    if you want, you need tweak using PSCS6 skills, ask for a vagina and anus morphs...forget it, not in Daz for sure.
    mmmph!!

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 1,497
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...and some of us are doing it to tell a story


    Child of War

    I Won't Let Them Hurt You

    A Greater Gift

    A Captive Audience

    With porn LOL

  • edited December 1969

    Jabba101 said:

    If somebody was to release geograft expansions of exceptional detail at a reasonable price (I mean a proper job of it - front & back etc etc), I'm sure I would be at the front of the queue to get them, but I don't honestly see a good business case for DAZ to do it.

    This is a good idea, but one question- At this time, don't all geografts need to go through and be approved by Daz, due to the use of donor faces from the original mesh being used in the geografting process? I haven't heard of that changing yet, but I may have missed something- I tend to do that at times :) If it is still that way, I'm not sure how Daz itself would handle a product like that.
    It'd be interesting.

  • DogzDogz Posts: 745
    edited December 2012

    ManStan said:
    All I can say is media has done a great job of dulling peoples moralistic compasses. The proof of this is any depiction of the brutalization of women or children being found acceptable. If you can some how defend this sort of "art" perhaps you need your compass checked.

    Im sorry, but the fact remains that people who cry 'there should be a law against that' are biggest enermies of the free society.

    In the case of a 3d render or movie, it find it slightly unpleasent, yes. But as an act against another human in reality, then it is shocking.
    While the former is is poor taste, the latter is an unspeakable crime that need to be punished to full extent of the law.
    Nothing wrong with my moral compass thank you very much.
    You cannot reasonably throw some one in jail for painting an ugly picture, that is bordering on the kind of tyranny generations before us have fought and even died to protect us from.
    Remember that every time something is outlawed, it turns more people into criminals and makes us less a free as a people. The decision to make something illegal should never be taken lightly.
    You and I still have the freedom to simply 'not look at it' if it offends us. Simple as that.

    Never give up freedoms for the sake of security, it doesnt work and its a road to hell.

    Post edited by Dogz on
  • BlackFeather1973BlackFeather1973 Posts: 739
    edited December 1969

    Skiriki said:
    It is possible to have fun, nice, consensual and empowering porn as well.

    Here's a problem: lots of image sites keep going with the attitude "no no no no NO any kind of sex!", which means that of course all that questionable stuff stays out. But it also means that fun, nice, consensual and empowering sexy kind stays out as well. And when you're forced to use sites that allow really sleazy stuff... well. That's when funny things start to happen.


    So true.
    And that withholds some folks making the 'fun, nice, consensual and empowering sexy kind' from putting it out there, cause they don't want their work being surrounded by the gross kind. And so there is a lot of the latter and few of the first on the interwebs, wich makes the stigma on anything porn-related even bigger than it already is.
    I'm no expert, but if you ask me, the big no-no on all things porn is killing decent porn in favor of the really sleazy kind, wich ironically is the one we/me/they didn't want in the first place.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    While you guys have been talking about politics, I spent the night starting on the fixes that the OP asked for. There will be a whole bunch. Here are just two early drafts of two morphs. One is a clothing fixer, the other is just a bend morph. I will start an official thread on this when the time is right. Admin, there is no nudity in the pic so please don't delete the image lol.

    bend3b.jpg
    939 x 646 - 111K
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,769
    edited December 1969

    Cool, when Zev0's fixes pop up, I can finally do a proper picture of a Plumber's Smile.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    LOL plumbers smile:)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 2,002
    edited December 1969

    TimG said:
    People really are looking for realism in their porn.

    it is not just about realism in porn, just realsim in "normal" renders would be great as standard.

    I have the i13 overhaul for ds and use it with manuell settings and the results are great, I also have v4bend what is just for the glute and have added badabing (a deformer shaping tool) with these three tools you get incredible real results the only bad thing is, that only badabing has magnets for clothe but these work superb. But for outfits, there are outfits by 3D-Age at renderosity that have adjustment and deformer morphs working sooo good and created so well that most of the time you can make the clothes fits perfect if you use overhaul.

    go to renderosoity and visit my gallery:

    my name there is also cosmo71

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    cosmo71 said:
    TimG said:
    People really are looking for realism in their porn.

    it is not just about realism in porn, just realsim in "normal" renders would be great as standard.

    I fully Agree with this.

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Norse Graphics

    You forgot to post a link to this article

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236054/Online-porn-linked-half-child-sex-abuse-cases.html

    Young children getting targeted by predators aren't exactly new. And online pron is the cause? Somehow I think it's parents neglect than pron than pushes kids onto the streets. The list says that 3 out of 13 signs makes them at risk:

    Children were counted if they met at least three out of 13 risk measures highlighted by experts. These included going missing from home, care or school; committing a crime; using drugs or alcohol; self-harming; or getting repeated sexual infections.

    How is using alcohol, missing from home or school the result of pron? It would seem to me that the 'blame' should be placed at school and home (parents) for pushing the kids into the arms of predators. A healthy kid wouldn't think about skipping school or boozing (at least not before 14/15 when most experiment with drinking).

    And pron isn't to blame for this 'study'.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/21/children-commissioner-defends-sex-abuse-report

    She doesn't take into account socalled 'grooming'.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    This discussion is getting into quasi-political territory, which we do not allow. The discussion of morphs and so on is fine, as is talking about the kind of work people produce, but please drop the discussion of how content should or should not be regulated.

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Skiriki said:
    It is possible to have fun, nice, consensual and empowering porn as well.

    Here's a problem: lots of image sites keep going with the attitude "no no no no NO any kind of sex!", which means that of course all that questionable stuff stays out. But it also means that fun, nice, consensual and empowering sexy kind stays out as well. And when you're forced to use sites that allow really sleazy stuff... well. That's when funny things start to happen.


    So true.
    And that withholds some folks making the 'fun, nice, consensual and empowering sexy kind' from putting it out there, cause they don't want their work being surrounded by the gross kind. And so there is a lot of the latter and few of the first on the interwebs, wich makes the stigma on anything porn-related even bigger than it already is.
    I'm no expert, but if you ask me, the big no-no on all things porn is killing decent porn in favor of the really sleazy kind, wich ironically is the one we/me/they didn't want in the first place.

    +1

    I don't render and publish pron, it's not my cup of tea. Yeah, rendered once or twice with some nude figure on a bed, but that's about it.

    There's a saying about pron, "Once seen, everything seen". Means that if you've seen it once, you already know what it is.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    Well, unfortunately being blunt, the big difference between being content providers and consumers. You didn't bother finding out. DAZ Studio isn't a full featured character creation application,

    at the moment no, but daz can make it more like a character creation application.
    working with zbrush is a very good move. (there is lot's of info and great tutorials about zbrush, but very very poor about the daz part).


    So learning those app to create your content is where you start. That's why DAZ isn't going to be much help because there's so many ways to get there. You need to learn one whether it's 3DS Max, Blender, etc.

    This is for me, the wrong way of thinking...
    actually you explain now, that we don't need a program like dazstudio and don't have to learn it.
    but learn 3Ds Max, Blender, etc.
    why would daz all those effort in developing dazstudio?
    if daz explain more about these content creation things = more content for all of us, more happy place and more daz income because of more vendors and available content.
    but there are a few around here, that think of no way, i lose money.
    those people everytime give me the feeling, that i better just stop with 3d hobby.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 2012

    Regarding sex that sells and DAZ3D doesn't know business (!): if it was even remotely true, DAZ3D.com and Renderosity.com would get less traffic than Renderotica. Yet according to web statistics the latter gets only around one eigth of DAZ's and Renderosity's.

    One of the most intelligent comments in this thread. LOL I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. This thread has gone into so many other directions..

    Post edited by Zev0 on
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