Daz needs to show more respect to the adult entertainment industry re: 3D content.

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Comments

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    druc said:

    As for censorship, I am not a big fan. I believe 99% of the adult human population are reasonable people and can make up their own minds about right and wrong, tasteful or vulgar, share or keep private, we are just force feed how bad the 1% are.

    Ah if only that were true.

    To start off some people need to get there heads out their puritan behinds. Nudity is not porn.

    Every once and a while I need to remind people what this was like in the studio 1 poser 3/4 days. Poser porn was everywhere, you couldn't do a search for poser with out getting a dozen poser porn links. And what made it worse was quite a lot of it was kiddy porn.

    What this did was cause a backlash against poser and such sites. That is why many sites steer clear of anything that might be used in such a manner {except renderorotica, and in my opinion that place is pure filth},

    DAZ; even though they send a mixed message, has tried to move away from this and not carry products that encourage it; thus no mil 4 teens.

    Now I define porn as sex acts, up to that point it is erotic art. Although that is subjective. I don't consider mammothly endowed women hooked up to milking machines art. In fact I have yet to come up with a proper word for it.

    In fact most of the "poser porn" I have been unforunet enough to see and been some of the darkest, nastiest, most fetish driven self indulgent, poor excuses for anything I have ever seen.

    And just to burst your bubble, there is no pose porn industry. The only money made from it is by the people selling you the morphs, addons, animations, textures, and devises{props}. there is no money to be made making poser porn, and good luck finding a site that will host it.

    Why should DAZ do anything to support any of that?

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited November 2012

    ManStan said:
    . . . I don't consider mammothly endowed women hooked up to milking machines art. In fact I have yet to come up with a proper word for it . . .
    Fetish erotica or kink erotica to fetish porn or kink porn, depending on how explicit it is. I'm not gonna get into "what is art" and whether it applies to erotica/porn, though.

    .
    ManStan said:
    . . . In fact most of the "poser porn" I have been unforunet enough to see and been some of the darkest, nastiest, most fetish driven self indulgent, poor excuses for anything I have ever seen . . .
    Self-indulgence is pretty much the point of erotica and porn, isn't it? And yes, quite a bit of poser erotica/porn is for various kinks and fetishes that are difficult or impossible to depict with real people -- IMHO this is a very good thing. :ohh: Which brings us to:

    .
    . . . And just to burst your bubble, there is no pose porn industry. The only money made from it is by the people selling you the morphs, addons, animations, textures, and devises{props}. there is no money to be made making poser porn, and good luck finding a site that will host it . . .

    Yes there is. It's a cottage industry ( :shut: sorry, some of the multi-entendres are unavoidable), but it exists, and there are people on these forums who take commissions to make porn and erotic art for rare kinks (darn it, where's Bobvan when you need him?) -- not me though, I'm strictly amateur.

    .
    . . . Why should DAZ do anything to support any of that?

    For the money from "selling you the morphs, addons, animations, textures, and devises{props}" of course! :coolsmirk:

    And a hopefully not-too-offtopic question re Genesis's comparatively lower poly-count: I keep hearing that with the current state of the software fewer polygons are required to support morphs, therefor this is a feature-not-a-bug. Not true?

    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 237
    edited December 1969

    I must admit I am rather surprised, and impressed, that this thread has not degenerated into, back of the class tittering, or burn them at the stake mobbery, indeed we seem to be having a rather interesting and 'adult' conversation.

    Oh Man Stan, you could not be more wrong...there IS a growing CG porn industry.

    As the models and textures become more realistic, and as production skills and lighting methods also become more realistic and professional, so the demand and interest in CG 'erotica' is growing.

    I am going to break cover here and admit that I am a producer of such CG based 'Erotica'/ Images / comics etc.

    I have been producing for over four years, and year on year, I have seen sales growth in the region of 20%. Indeed last year I turned over $27,000 dollars, and I only do this part time, as a side line, and I have literally turned down $1000's in commission requests in the past, as I just don't have the time to fullfill them.

    But I agree that this is something that DAZ should not be involved in or even acknowledge, per say, there are other 'specialist' sites and artists, who should be able to produce the 'specialist bits' that individuals such as myself may require for their models.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,824
    edited November 2012

    druc said:
    ... I believe 99% of the adult human population are reasonable people and can make up their own minds about right and wrong, tasteful or vulgar, share or keep private, ...

    I tend to disagree. I think the percentage is much lower. Left to their own devices with time on their hands or in the struggle for survival human monkeys can be quite outrageous.

    If not for laws and the fear of a vengeful god or everlasting damnation, human monkeys would be excessing like a scene from a painting by Hieronymus Bosch.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_Bosch

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Don't get me wrong, I love pin up art. I enjoy doing some erotic pieces. I don't do porn. Women may drive me up the walls in no short order, but I am a feminist and see most pron as terribly degrading to women. What poser porn I have seen depicts women as little more then a sex prop.

    But that is just me, I'm a simple man, I like simple things and some feminine erotic costuming is about as kinky as I get; on the women ;-P . But above all, I respect women too much to depict them they way I see them depicted in most all the poser porn I have seen.

    Note, I am registered with renderortica and have been for quite some time. So I have seen what is on the market and it seems 90% of it caters to extreme fetishism.

    Sorry swordkensia but all your info tells me is there are some lonely, horny men out there with too much money lol


    "If not for laws and the fear of a vengeful god or everlasting damnation, human monkeys would be murdering and raping like a scene from a painting by Hieronymus Bosch." LeatherGryphon

    Agree. Humans are animals, with no fear of reprisal we will act as such.

  • 3DProclivity3DProclivity Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    laksdfj said:
    Frank0314 said:
    Lets please try to remember this is a family orientated site and avoid getting involved in graphic descriptions

    Do not take offense when you read this my friend.

    BUT FAMILY ORIENTATED? WTF? Family orientated? What planet are you on? No offense. The reality is that 75% of renders are used for pornography. You can accept this fact or continue to ignore reality.

    [snip]

    Really? 75% of renders? Not 74% or 10% or 95% or 51%? All renders everywhere? Or just at your house?

    Don't take offense to this my friend, but you have no way of quantifying the percentage of renders used for this or that purpose except for yourself and maybe a group of people you know. I certainly doubt you have any academic research to back up this number or any other one.

    The reality is that you can't just pull stats out of the air and think that carries any weight.

    Post edited by 3DProclivity on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited November 2012

    The problem is not a lack of morphs to expose V4's bits. It's that attention has been paid to that rather than to the things that make a good 3d render or film.

    So, I think you hit the nail on the head. The OP wants DAZ to do his work for him :)

    Post edited by wancow on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,763
    edited November 2012

    laksdfj said:
    Frank0314 said:
    Lets please try to remember this is a family orientated site and avoid getting involved in graphic descriptions

    Do not take offense when you read this my friend.

    BUT FAMILY ORIENTATED? WTF? Family orientated? What planet are you on? No offense. The reality is that 75% of renders are used for pornography. You can accept this fact or continue to ignore reality.

    [snip]

    Really? 75% of renders? Not 74% or 10% or 95% or 51%? All renders everywhere? Or just at your house?

    Don't take offense to this my friend, but you have no way of quantifying the percentage of renders used for this or that purpose except for yourself and maybe a group of people you know. I certainly doubt you have any academic research to back up this number or any other one.

    The reality is that you can't just pull stats out of the air and think that carries any weight.

    I missed that one, yes this conversation is tending towards fantasy now. That is a ridiculous figure to try pulling out of the hat. If that sort of percentage were true, then it would be sites like renderotica that had vast number of members and sites like DAZ 3D and Renderosity would be struggling along with member numbers in the low thousands at best.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    I must admit I am rather surprised, and impressed, that this thread has not degenerated into, back of the class tittering, or burn them at the stake mobbery, indeed we seem to be having a rather interesting and 'adult' conversation.

    Oh Man Stan, you could not be more wrong...there IS a growing CG porn industry.

    As the models and textures become more realistic, and as production skills and lighting methods also become more realistic and professional, so the demand and interest in CG 'erotica' is growing.

    I am going to break cover here and admit that I am a producer of such CG based 'Erotica'/ Images / comics etc.

    I have been producing for over four years, and year on year, I have seen sales growth in the region of 20%. Indeed last year I turned over $27,000 dollars, and I only do this part time, as a side line, and I have literally turned down $1000's in commission requests in the past, as I just don't have the time to fullfill them.

    But I agree that this is something that DAZ should not be involved in or even acknowledge, per say, there are other 'specialist' sites and artists, who should be able to produce the 'specialist bits' that individuals such as myself may require for their models.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

    We're mostly grownups here. We all know it exists. We all know it's around. And actually, I think the number of people who really think there shouldn't be porn or erotica is quite small. I have zero problem with people making a living selling digital porn, as adults to adults.


    For me personally, it's not that I would never participate as an artist or think others should not. The problem is that I don't want to be associated, personally or professionally, with rape content, and I have so far not seen a single digital porn site that didn't heavily emphasize that. Apparently consensual mutually-enjoyed sex is a very rare fetish. I'm not sorry that DAZ stops at pinups and doesn't proceed to becoming like 'rotica.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    For me personally, it's not that I would never participate as an artist or think others should not. The problem is that I don't want to be associated, personally or professionally, with rape content, and I have so far not seen a single digital porn site that didn't heavily emphasize that. Apparently consensual mutually-enjoyed sex is a very rare fetish. I'm not sorry that DAZ stops at pinups and doesn't proceed to becoming like 'rotica.

    Here's yet another keen insight. The whole purpose behind doing CGI porn is to do what real people won't do, or can't do... or shouldn't do... Why do anything vanilla when you can just hire a real actor for that?

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    For me personally, it's not that I would never participate as an artist or think others should not. The problem is that I don't want to be associated, personally or professionally, with rape content, and I have so far not seen a single digital porn site that didn't heavily emphasize that. Apparently consensual mutually-enjoyed sex is a very rare fetish. I'm not sorry that DAZ stops at pinups and doesn't proceed to becoming like 'rotica.

    Here's yet another keen insight. The whole purpose behind doing CGI porn is to do what real people won't do, or can't do... or shouldn't do... Why do anything vanilla when you can just hire a real actor for that?


    Because you like consensuality between elves, or sci fi critters, or certain types of procedures that are impossible for most real actors? All of those are valid reasons. I've seen other people's commissions for some of them, in fact...

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 302
    edited November 2012

    druc said:
    .......... about right and wrong, tasteful or vulgar, share or keep private......

    Unfortunately it's rarely as simple as "either-or". More often it appears to be the level of rightness, wrongness, or even the lesser of two evils which we are willing to accept. Since this is something that we determine as individuals, it will not correlate exactly with what other individuals believe. This creates a whole spectrum of opinions from one extreme to the other.

    Just look at the differences in opinions and reactions in this thread alone.

    Post edited by Mr Leong on
  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    laksdfj said:
    Frank0314 said:
    Lets please try to remember this is a family orientated site and avoid getting involved in graphic descriptions

    Do not take offense when you read this my friend.

    BUT FAMILY ORIENTATED? WTF? Family orientated? What planet are you on? No offense. The reality is that 75% of renders are used for pornography. You can accept this fact or continue to ignore reality.

    If this is true, I must be confused about the meaning of pornography....

    IMO, maybe somewhere around 75% of renders are for pin-up type renders, but normal pin-up renders are far from porn.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 237
    edited December 1969

    Actually Sickleyield you really have hit the nail on the had with you earlier statement..

    A Considerable amount of material that is produced at the moment is of the type you describe and therefore that is the perception that people have of CG Porn. Indeed I am pretty shocked at the type of stuff that is freely posted as rotica these days..most definately not my cup of tea.

    My own work is all consensual, I have no interest in forced or anything else where violence is being inflicted on the participants.. I like my characters strong, independent and empowered, and actually enjoying the acts they are taking part in, thats what floats my boat..

    S.K.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,298
    edited November 2012

    Faerydae said:

    IMO, maybe somewhere around 75% of renders are for pin-up type renders, but normal pin-up renders are far from porn.

    Too bad not everyone agrees to that. Many people still try to define porn as anything mildly exciting. Like a swimsuit magazine or Maxim. Or a woman in tight jeans, or people doing the salsa.

    EDIT: and if you think I'm being extreme, no I still deal with this mentality on a daily basis and I wish I could run away but am stuck where I am :(

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Yes, but if you can make Robbie Coltrain look ten feet tall and Ian Holm look two and a half feet tall, you can do live action porn between Elves and whatever... It's just a matter of what a producer is willing to spend making a film. This guy wants it both ways. He wants to make a tonne of money off his CG Porn, and have it virtually free to produce. This, it seems, anyway, is someone who really doesn't have much clue as to what goes into good quality CG Stills, much less film. He seems to thin he should be able to set a couple of figures in a pose, hit render, and have it look good enough to give men that Viagra effect and put a tonne of money in his pocket.

    That it's a pipe dream is understood by most people on this forum. It seems to me what this guy really needs is a render engine that renders dollars at the push of a button.... that might make him happy. Maybe.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:

    IMO, maybe somewhere around 75% of renders are for pin-up type renders, but normal pin-up renders are far from porn.

    Too bad not everyone agrees to that. Many people still try to define porn as anything mildly exciting. Like a swimsuit magazine or Maxim. Or a woman in tight jeans, or people doing the salsa.

    EDIT: and if you think I'm being extreme, no I still deal with this mentality on a daily basis and I wish I could run away but am stuck where I am :(


    I'm doing a salsa basic step RIGHT NOW.


    I am the porn! Look away!

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,298
    edited November 2012

    I'm doing a salsa basic step RIGHT NOW.


    I am the porn! Look away!

    LOL. I'll go blind if I look too long. Least thats what I've been told.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,457
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:

    IMO, maybe somewhere around 75% of renders are for pin-up type renders, but normal pin-up renders are far from porn.

    Too bad not everyone agrees to that. Many people still try to define porn as anything mildly exciting. Like a swimsuit magazine or Maxim. Or a woman in tight jeans, or people doing the salsa.

    EDIT: and if you think I'm being extreme, no I still deal with this mentality on a daily basis and I wish I could run away but am stuck where I am :(


    I'm doing a salsa basic step RIGHT NOW.


    I am the porn! Look away!

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I'm doing a salsa basic step RIGHT NOW.


    I am the porn! Look away!

    LOL. I'll go blind if I look too long. Least thats what I've been told.

    MY EYES! MY EEEYES!

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 380
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Jabba101 said:
    Learn how to properly adjust Genesis, and learn some half-decent post work/digital painting techniques, then sky's the limit

    Yeah, how can people do that without a well written manual or very poor video tutorial section?
    that's where the first problem start...
    all what's left for many is try'll and error and lot's of frustration.
    at that last part, people just leave and go on with other things in life.
    and never look back.

    Interesting topic. Sex is always interesting, anyone who thinks otherwise, needs to treat that bubble really carefully.

    Tried poser etc previously and must say, it was easier to go and learn blender than get to grips with poser. I'm experimenting a bit with daz4.5, but seriously, it seriously sucks to try and figure stuff out and it is easier than when I've tried poser.

    Trial and error is the only method.

    One thing I noticed when I first looked at the site was the woman's boobs had no nipples; mum even commented - when she came to my study and saw - that they looked unrealistic. Mum's in her 80's, and thought it pretty silly.

    An image should always be believable, not necessarily real, but certainly believable, otherwise we lose our audience. Sometimes genitals are needed, sometimes not.

    And I was surprised to discover people saying this is a family orientated site; but it's always been the case that we'd rather expose our kids to various forms of violence than even healthy love and sex.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,298
    edited November 2012

    Rareth said:

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

    I wouldn't say big trouble, because I don't think most people are that extreme, but my granny did complain about DWTS and said it's a shame that stuff like that is on TV to influence younger audiences.(to get pregnant)

    She also though Elvis was a hottie.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

    I wouldn't say big trouble, because I don't think most people are that extreme, but my granny did complain about DWTS and said it's a shame that stuff like that is on TV to influence younger audiences.(to get pregnant)

    She also though Elvis was a hottie.

    If you get pregnant while doing salsa, you are doing it wrong.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

    I wouldn't say big trouble, because I don't think most people are that extreme, but my granny did complain about DWTS and said it's a shame that stuff like that is on TV to influence younger audiences.(to get pregnant)

    She also though Elvis was a hottie.


    If you get pregnant while doing salsa, you are doing it wrong.

    Or very, very right. ;-)

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,609
    edited December 1969

    my salsa involves tomatos and a sharp knife :snake: not sure that leads to conception

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,298
    edited November 2012

    Rareth said:

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

    I wouldn't say big trouble, because I don't think most people are that extreme, but my granny did complain about DWTS and said it's a shame that stuff like that is on TV to influence younger audiences.(to get pregnant)

    She also though Elvis was a hottie.

    If you get pregnant while doing salsa, you are doing it wrong.

    I dunno, I'd pay to see it in action myself. But seriously, we all know that smexy dancing is what leads to pre-martial sex and fatherless children. (edit: or perhaps children that don't known their daddy is better way to phrase it)

    But I have strayed too far from the subject matter. Erm um. I like pinups and I do wish that the legs of genesis bent better in the inner thigh area. and I wish panties didn't deform strangely when doing normal pinup poses. I do my own tricks to get things to look nice, like post work and sometimes deformers. But that does add a lot of time to the project , so anything that helps speed things up I would appreciate. I've got a few genesis bend fixes and they are helpful but not in the situation I am mentioning. If another group wanted to address that issue I would pay them.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,298
    edited December 1969

    my salsa involves tomatos and a sharp knife :snake: not sure that leads to conception

    sounds like two kinks mixed into one. Might want keep quiet about that.

  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,457
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:

    If Salsa dancing is considered porn then Dancing With The Stars (and ABC and Disney) are in big trouble, that stuff airs during prime time.

    I wouldn't say big trouble, because I don't think most people are that extreme, but my granny did complain about DWTS and said it's a shame that stuff like that is on TV to influence younger audiences.(to get pregnant)

    She also though Elvis was a hottie.

    guess I forgot the sarcasm smiley oops..


    its all in the eye of the beholder.. like the song says..

    You see a priceless french painting, I see a drunk naked girl....

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,803
    edited December 1969

    The 3D Porn industry is a real thing, and while there's no way to know the actual percentage of 3D porn out there compared to other "legitimate" 3D human/anamorphic rendering it's not out of the question to say it's probably a lot more than anyone might admit. If you don't make porn and don't consider it art that's your business, but if you render cars or robots remember Mechaphilia is a real word and that means someone, (probably a lot more) did something to make it necessary to have that kind of word.

    Is port art?
    It depends.

    Is it daz3d's responsibility to offer you the best out of the box 3d porn experience they can?
    Nope. it's your responsibility if you wish to pursue it.

    What Daz3d has done is provide the base for getting started with "A hobby" the rest will probably need to be pursued outside the Daz3d realm. Once a hobbyist get's serious about their craft they generally find they need to find solutions elsewhere. I use Studio, Blender, Photoshop and Illustrator, and I rely on many 3rd party packages to address the limitations of both the software and my limited knowledge. Any car mechanic, any serious musician, or any computer modder; they explore their options when they become limited.

    Heres one other thought that I hope you consider whether you like porn or you feel those who make it should be shoved screaming into a wood chipper; porn has been around for millennia, it's not some 20th century anomaly that happened because of the invention photography, before then it was all drawn, sculpted, painted, celebrated in song or prose. If the future of porn is 3D so be it, if it means one single 16 year old runaway is not being intercepted at the bus station by some cretin who destroys kids lives (see wood chipper reference) for a living then I'm all for 3D porn as the alternative.

  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 597
    edited December 1969

    There are few points on which I am disappointed at all with Genesis, but that's one. It really does hurt the morphing capabilities.
    I agree. Genesis is a great product, but it lacks many of the morphs V4++/M4++ had. Most was cut in the face morphs, which makes it difficult to have the broad range of characters V4 and M4 offer. That's why I still prefer the latter.

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