Daz needs to show more respect to the adult entertainment industry re: 3D content.

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  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 2,746
    edited November 2012

    Well the center piece of modern porn would be bits and how they animate, the rest of that stuff is important but not as much so.

    Ya know why, most people (as in the consumer) don't care, don't know any better and don't want to know. But yes improving the visual quality, framing and such would help to a degree. But again not much.

    Ya know why, look at a live action hub site and look at the modern trash thrown out and how popular it is.(not saying you literally have to do this but trust me here) Poorly lit, no editing and bad acting. But people(the consumers again) love it to death and spend countless time watching it.

    Back in the day I remember porn had stories, and scenes where they build up the characters, they had some simple cinematography, period costumes and great scenery. Not so much anymore(most of the time).

    But yeah a lot of the creators of 3d erotica could step up their game a lot. But there are some out there that have gotten it together, but erm its still not for everybody.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • MarieahMarieah Posts: 521
    edited December 1969

    Don't forget that Daz actually put huge resources into fixing V4...and M4 as well.

    That fix is called Genesis.

    Don't expect resources to go towards fixing legacy figures, particularly since the fixing of them has become a mini-industry in itself for small vendors. And yes, I did some fixes as well. They are free on Share Cg.

  • DogzDogz Posts: 713
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Dogz said:
    wancow said:
    My question to the OP is this: if the Adult Film Industry is going to make SOOOOOO much money on 3D: why can't Adult 3D Film producers afford high end artists using sate of the art software to make their stuff?

    probably because in reality that "SOOOOOO much" is actualy just "A bit"
    Logistically speaking - I'd imagine you can hire real actors for much less than a bunch of Maya Licences, a team of 3d artists ,a render farm and big fat electricity bill. There would be no point.
    The only reason I can see that someone would opt to make 3d porn (which i'd imagine is fairly low demand compared to the real thing) is that its very low cost to produce - thanks to the likes of Poser.

    Oh... okay, so if poser porn makes so much money, why is he complaining? It is what it is.

    Because the (ahem) bits & bobs still dont work as well as he'd like i think .. :D

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 2,746
    edited December 1969

    Marieah said:
    Don't forget that Daz actually put huge resources into fixing V4...and M4 as well.

    That fix is called Genesis.

    Don't expect resources to go towards fixing legacy figures, particularly since the fixing of them has become a mini-industry in itself for small vendors. And yes, I did some fixes as well. They are free on Share Cg.

    The OP did say he didn't like Genesis because it still didn't fix a lot of the stuff Zev mentioned.

    But like I said Daz isn't going to focus on a niche like this, they couldn't even put a picture up to show the improvements.

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,132
    edited December 1969

    The biggest issue is not the tools, but the lack of skill with how they're used.

    I understand that many folk want instant results, and if the motivation is too much in the erotic camp without a sufficient foothold in the artistic camp, then the results are as you see all over the internet.

    Learn how to properly adjust Genesis, and learn some half-decent post work/digital painting techniques, then sky's the limit.

    This is a customised Genesis M5 with Phillip elite texture (heavy post-work on face to achieve character likeness - I couldn't get face morphs this close)... from start to finish around 5 hours (this is a forum-compliant image; it shouldn't take too much imagination to realise what could be done instead of just a guy standing in trunks) ...

    click link if you want to see full size - http://fav.me/d5mlkhc

    David-8.jpg
    800 x 1036 - 344K
  • HenryChan2HenryChan2 Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    Frank0314 said:
    Lets please try to remember this is a family orientated site and avoid getting involved in graphic descriptions

    Do not take offense when you read this my friend.

    BUT FAMILY ORIENTATED? WTF? Family orientated? What planet are you on? No offense. The reality is that 75% of renders are used for pornography. You can accept this fact or continue to ignore reality.

    Even in the DAZ galleries 50% of renders are very sexual in nature. I understand some people are uncomfortable when talking about sex, but please don't be.

    http://www.daz3d.com/i/galleries/0?id=23651&2

    Look how family orientated this picture is: http://www.daz3d.com/i/galleries/0?id=7357&sec=3 That mom sure looks hot lol.

    I'm approaching this issue on a PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS level. V4's buttocks and thighs have barely enough geometry for proper modification. Was V4 not designed by DAZ? I suggest a high resolution V4 4.3 with three times the amount of poly's in the thigh & buttocks region.

    DAZ needs to realize that V4 & V5 is mainly used for SEX, sex, sex, sex. So the next V4 has to have the thighs & butt in proper order when she is bent over.

    Don't forget that Daz actually put huge resources into fixing V4...and M4 as well.

    That fix is called Genesis.

    Don't expect resources to go towards fixing legacy figures, particularly since the fixing of them has become a mini-industry in itself for small vendors. And yes, I did some fixes as well. They are free on Share Cg.

    Take V5 Genesis and bend her over. Looks pretty crappy doesn't it? DAZ needs to get on top of that asap.

    Post edited by HenryChan2 on
  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    TimG said:
    People really are looking for realism in their porn.

    Not me!

    Realism is for people who can't handle Fantasy-ism.

  • DAZ_KevinDAZ_Kevin Posts: 1,545
    edited December 1969

    *cough* No comment. *Cough*

    laksdfj said:

    Take V5 Genesis and bend her over. DAZ needs to get on top of that .

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,294
    edited December 1969

    A Victoria 4 with more polygons would not be able to use existing Victoria 4 morphs at all, a Victoria 4 with different joint settings would not be able to wear existing Victoria 4 clothing and so on - you are in effect asking for a new figure, not an upgrade.

    I also have to point out that the images you linked from the galleries may be pin-ups, but they are a long way short of porn or sex.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ummm.. I'll not say what I do with my 3D product's. Just that things can be fixed and will do all that is needed but not with products from this site.

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 300
    edited December 1969

    A Victoria 4 with more polygons would not be able to use existing Victoria 4 morphs at all, a Victoria 4 with different joint settings would not be able to wear existing Victoria 4 clothing and so on

    I don't think that would matter for the OP's intentions. ;-)

  • HenryChan2HenryChan2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    A Victoria 4 with more polygons would not be able to use existing Victoria 4 morphs at all, a Victoria 4 with different joint settings would not be able to wear existing Victoria 4 clothing and so on - you are in effect asking for a new figure, not an upgrade.

    I also have to point out that the images you linked from the galleries may be pin-ups, but they are a long way short of porn or sex.

    I'm willing to sacrifice wearing any type of clothing and I'd be happy with 6-8 body morphs, definition, fitness, voluptuous, etc. I can use a combo between normal v4.2 normal and a v4.2 model that is designed for her to be bent over so her thighs, buttocks and genital area look just like a real woman. I'd pay $99.95 for this model.

  • cjreynoldscjreynolds Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Kevin said:
    *cough* No comment. *Cough*
    laksdfj said:

    Take V5 Genesis and bend her over. DAZ needs to get on top of that .

    Giggedy-Giggedy!

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,718
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Lets please try to remember this is a family orientated site and avoid getting involved in graphic descriptions

    Family oriented site with be-headings ;)

    Hmmm... "family"... "be-heading" ... would that be an "Apidae direction"? ROTFLMAO (excuse me I'm a little loopy tonight) (*snark*)

  • nightwolf1982nightwolf1982 Posts: 487
    edited December 1969

    well, I took v5 and bent her over, but I don't see how DAZ can get on top of her :cheese:

    In any case, if DAZ started doing anything even remotely related to erotic art work, the credit card companies would throw a fit.

    That's why none of the "bits" have any real functionality.

  • fivecatfivecat Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Kevin said:
    *cough* No comment. *Cough*
    laksdfj said:

    Take V5 Genesis and bend her over. DAZ needs to get on top of that .

    Giggedy-Giggedy!

    Thank you for making me laugh so hard it hurt.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,923
    edited November 2012

    I'm a little off topic, but should gen 6 be released, I would like to see them actually high resolution. Seriously they are too low res. When you start creating morphs it's obvious. Sure for practicality on older systems the mesh needs to be lower poly count, but really, in my opinion, Genesis should be double the poly count it currently is. This isnt a video game, this is a virtual studio, photographic realism is what many of us go for.

    I have clothing items that even in pieces has almost the same poly count

    Post edited by SpyroRue on
  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,441
    edited December 1969

    fivecat said:
    DAZ_Kevin said:
    *cough* No comment. *Cough*
    laksdfj said:

    Take V5 Genesis and bend her over. DAZ needs to get on top of that .

    Giggedy-Giggedy!

    Thank you for making me laugh so hard it hurt.

    This thread should have a warning not to be drinking anything while reading it. It almost guarantees whatever you are drinking will end up all over the monitor.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    I'm a little off topic, but should gen 6 be released, I would like to see them actually high resolution. Seriously they are too low res. When you start creating morphs it's obvious. Sure for practicality on older systems the mesh needs to be lower poly count, but really, in my opinion, Genesis should be double the poly count it currently is. This isnt a video game, this is a virtual studio, photographic realism is what many of us go for.

    I have clothing items that even in pieces has almost the same poly count


    There are few points on which I am disappointed at all with Genesis, but that's one. It really does hurt the morphing capabilities. That affects adult products but also everything else.


    I agree with the earlier poster about the credit cards - once I looked into starting my own 3d site in general and discovered that if you have any adult content, Paypal will have nothing to do with you. It's much safer to go the titillating PG-13 rated route for any merchant online.

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 300
    edited November 2012

    well, I took v5 and bent her over, but I don't see how DAZ can get on top of her :cheese:

    Did you apply the Genesis Evolution: Body Morphs for more muscle in her legs to support Daz on her back?

    Post edited by Mr Leong on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    I'm a little off topic, but should gen 6 be released, I would like to see them actually high resolution. Seriously they are too low res. When you start creating morphs it's obvious. Sure for practicality on older systems the mesh needs to be lower poly count, but really, in my opinion, Genesis should be double the poly count it currently is. This isnt a video game, this is a virtual studio, photographic realism is what many of us go for.

    I have clothing items that even in pieces has almost the same poly count


    There are few points on which I am disappointed at all with Genesis, but that's one. It really does hurt the morphing capabilities. That affects adult products but also everything else.


    I agree with the earlier poster about the credit cards - once I looked into starting my own 3d site in general and discovered that if you have any adult content, Paypal will have nothing to do with you. It's much safer to go the titillating PG-13 rated route for any merchant online.

    Hey now, as I've been told several times... facts aren't allowed in the forums. They pop too many bubbles.

    Kendall

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I do have to agree, I find it amusing that DAZ considers itself a "family oriented" business.

    Just from the first page of "Clothing and Accessories"
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/clothing-accessories/alice-redemption
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/clothing-accessories/dark-embrace
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sylvanna-for-genesis

    Are they porn? No, clearly not. However, to claim they are "family oriented" is downright hilarious. DAZ's website is not G-rated. It's not even PG-rated. It's closer to PG-13. The overt sexuality of many of the products is undeniable.

    I'm not saying I care. A family oriented site would be boring, to say the least. It's DAZ's view of itself that's ridiculous.

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,518
    edited December 1969

    Run away the white rabbit's coming !!!

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    I do have to agree, I find it amusing that DAZ considers itself a "family oriented" business.

    Just from the first page of "Clothing and Accessories"
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/clothing-accessories/alice-redemption
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/clothing-accessories/dark-embrace
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sylvanna-for-genesis

    Are they porn? No, clearly not. However, to claim they are "family oriented" is downright hilarious. DAZ's website is not G-rated. It's not even PG-rated. It's closer to PG-13. The overt sexuality of many of the products is undeniable.

    I'm not saying I care. A family oriented site would be boring, to say the least. It's DAZ's view of itself that's ridiculous.

    DAZ has always been ridiculous with it's attitude. I blame it on their location.

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,518
    edited December 1969

    You're not talking about it being the Mormon capital of the world by chance. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as Jerry would say

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
    edited November 2012

    laksdfj said:
    A lot of money is being made in adult entertainment with 3D renders. The problem is that DAZ continues to neglect the most important and alluring features in their 3D models. Particularly V4's thighs & buttocks. When V4 is in provocative positions the geometry just doesn't look right. It's been years and years yet there isn't a solid, professional, ENTERPRISE level solution. I'm not talking about the current fixes on the market. I'm talking about realistic life like geometrical accuracies. When V4 is bent over, the geometry must bend the same way a lady would in real life.

    So what's the solution here? Money. If DAZ can just pay some more respect to V4's derriere then I would gladly pay for it. When she is bent over, I want it to look just like it would in a real life photo. Please consider it. Even V5 Genesis doesn't bend properly at the thigh and buttock.

    I'm currently ready to pay $99.95 for a professional solution.

    you're partly right about all this.
    if daz would model real looking humans, bends and body movements have to move in it the right directions and not the wrong
    way like we have models 10 years ago with the first poser version.
    I still prefer a full correct model to buy over quick fixes created by community PA users afterwards.
    humans have gens, animals have gens..., it is up to the 3d artist for proper use of the content.
    there will always be real pieces of art and on the other site more adult related 3d things.
    this is simply unavoidable...
    it is a choice and responsibility from the 3d artist!
    If you model only comics all this does not matter, if you try to model, pose, animate real looking humans it all does.

    When i saw an adult game the past year, I firstly thought of...
    did daz had some other sites running?
    the whole game is created with figures from daz.
    as there is more money to collected in that other business.
    it would not surprise me...
    the only thing that was good on the game, was the well done character pose system.
    a pose system where poser and daz only could learn from.
    but like i've said, it is a choice and responsibility from the 3d artist how to use the content.

    most people here come to daz for human figures, not?

    I think we can expect more, if daz first can fix and get it's software ready to make all these upcoming goodies available
    render, animate and become more real human characters
    the choice to change/switch from DS3 to new DS4 kernel was not for nothing.
    Think we will see more at the end of 2013...
    until that day we just wait and save money.

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
    edited November 2012

    Jabba101 said:
    Learn how to properly adjust Genesis, and learn some half-decent post work/digital painting techniques, then sky's the limit

    Yeah, how can people do that without a well written manual or very poor video tutorial section?
    that's where the first problem start...
    all what's left for many is try'll and error and lot's of frustration.
    at that last part, people just leave and go on with other things in life.
    and never look back.

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,956
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Jabba101 said:
    Learn how to properly adjust Genesis, and learn some half-decent post work/digital painting techniques, then sky's the limit

    Yeah, how can people do that without a well written manual or very poor video tutorial section?
    that's where the first problem start...
    all what's left for many is try'll and error and lot's of frustration.
    at that last part, people just leave and go on with other things in life.
    and never look back.

    Unfortunately, this isn't where a DAZ manual comes in. You'll need an external modeling tool to adjust the mesh you can't do the adjusting in DS4.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,956
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    I'm a little off topic, but should gen 6 be released, I would like to see them actually high resolution. Seriously they are too low res. When you start creating morphs it's obvious. Sure for practicality on older systems the mesh needs to be lower poly count, but really, in my opinion, Genesis should be double the poly count it currently is. This isnt a video game, this is a virtual studio, photographic realism is what many of us go for.

    I have clothing items that even in pieces has almost the same poly count

    Actually it isn't too lo res. The big thing to remember that you're working with a cage, rather than a mesh; so moving points in various directions will give you a bit more detail, so you'll need to practice a bit with it to get the result you want. You could probably exaggerating the points a little to see how it come out once it's sub'd.

  • drucdruc Posts: 69
    edited December 1969

    Thank you one and all for an amusing read.

    And just to throw my two bobs worth in (sorry old Aussie slang), in movies and pictures, sex and violence both make money. Usually a distributor or manufacturer will concentrate on one more than the other for reasons which align with their philosophy. In addition to this, there is little chance of "forcing" change because this philosophical decision has been long made.

    As for censorship, I am not a big fan. I believe 99% of the adult human population are reasonable people and can make up their own minds about right and wrong, tasteful or vulgar, share or keep private, we are just force feed how bad the 1% are.

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