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  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 654
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Considering that I am just barely getting to understand UV mapping in Carrara, I'm not keen on re-learning how to do it in LW.

    The standard advice I give here that makes everyone real upset:

    Don't tie your learning to a software application. Learn 3D from a general book on 3D, where you learn the concepts, as opposed to what the dials and buttons do in a particular application. Once you learn the basic concepts, you'll go into any new application knowing what to expect, so it becomes just a matter of "where's the button for this", rather than "hmm, what the heck does this do?"

    Makes life a lot easier.

    If, of course, that's what you want....

    Besides making life easier, it can save you a ton of money on software since you will know the latest whiz bang feature in a program actually goes by another name in another program and does basically the same job. You'll get by all the hype more quickly.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    The standard advice I give here that makes everyone real upset

    So I recall from past threads... ;)

    Don't tie your learning to a software application. Learn 3D from a general book on 3D, where you learn the concepts, as opposed to what the dials and buttons do in a particular application.

    I once asked you for some of the book titles that are sitting on your shelf...

    Some of my newest bibliographic acquisitions appear to be software agnostic. "3D Art Essentials" by Ami Chopine. "Digital Modeling" by William Vaughan (learned his name from watching some LW tutorials on YouTube). "Polygonal Modeling: Basic And Advanced Techniques" by Mario Russo.

    I also picked up some PhotoShop books...including one that is specific to 3D artists (creating textures, etc. rather than photo touch-ups).

    My biggest problem is my day job. I don't have the time I'd like to invest during the week in all this reading and 3D experimentation. If only I could take that permanent vacation that Aerosmith sang about...

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,036
    edited December 1969

    HI Garstor :)

    Jeremy Birn
    Digital Lighting and rendering.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    HI Garstor :)

    Jeremy Birn
    Digital Lighting and rendering.

    Yep...got that one a few months ago. Speaking of which I need to add it to my pile beside the rendering boxes here.

    What can I say? I really love books and I buy them so fast that I have no hope of reading them all! :)

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    3DAGE said:
    HI Garstor :)

    Jeremy Birn
    Digital Lighting and rendering.

    Yep...got that one a few months ago. Speaking of which I need to add it to my pile beside the rendering boxes here.

    What can I say? I really love books and I buy them so fast that I have no hope of reading them all! :)


    .
    Concentrate on that one.
    .
    Sometimes, learning from one really good source beats five okay sorces anyday.
    .
    I do know what you mean about your job eating away most of your time. I have been trying to learn 3DSMax for years and never can get the time to just sit down and do it.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Duly noted Tsarist. Birn is back on top of the pile.

    Another hindrence for me (I hope to finally resolve tomorrow) is that my rendering machine sits on a low coffee table. My "chair" actually a racing seat from my XBox system. "Uncomfortable" doesn't even begin to do justice to my attempts to work on scenes... :coolcheese:

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Duly noted Tsarist. Birn is back on top of the pile.

    Another hindrence for me (I hope to finally resolve tomorrow) is that my rendering machine sits on a low coffee table. My "chair" actually a racing seat from my XBox system. "Uncomfortable" doesn't even begin to do justice to my attempts to work on scenes... :coolcheese:


    .
    Yeah, I had a milk crate for a chair at one point.
    .
    Go to a thrift store and you can get a used office chair for $5-$10. If you live near a university, you can often get a good office chair from their "property disposition" or whatever it's called department for $5-$15.
    .
    Your back will thank you for it.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited November 2012

    Garstor said:
    I once asked you for some of the book titles that are sitting on your shelf...

    Did I not respond? Sorry...

    Anyway, my suggestions for studying 3D are a bit different from what others might tell you. My first suggestion, which also makes people upset, is to turn off your computer, get up, and go outside with a camera. And just look at stuff. Look at shapes and textures, look how light interacts with objects, look at colors of objects and light.

    And then try to figure out where the light is coming from, where and why it's bouncing, what color it assumes, etc.

    And then look at shadows. Try to figure out why they are the way they are.

    You can't model the real world if you don't really know what it looks like. Take reference photos and store them on your computer.

    You can read all the books in the world on lighting or anything else, but if you can't relate it to what happens in real life then it's all just words.

    Then I'd suggest starting with a comprehensive text on 3D concepts. I'm a bit biased :) , but I'd start with something like Isaac Kerlow's book "The Art of 3d: Computer Animation and Effects". The guy is really good, has a lot of experience in feature films, is one of the pioneers in this stuff, and knows what he's talking about.

    Personally, I'd steer clear of specific books on modelling or lighting or whatever at the beginning, and just focus on the general basics, but spend a LOT of time out in the real world understanding what you're trying to model.

    And when you learn a concept, go outside and look at real stuff to see what it all means.

    And then, when you start to get a handle on the basics, try to reproduce something you've photographed using your 3D software. That will force you to break down all the aspects and figure them out. Why does the leaf seem to glow? What's causing that shadow? What color is sunlight? And on and on....

    Try to match your reference photo EXACTLY. This is, IMO, one of the best ways to understand how the real world works. Guaranteed, every time you do it you'll learn a lot.

    And then, when you get into the different areas, look for a book on lighting or modelling or whatever interests you.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Anyway, my suggestions for studying 3D are a bit different from what others might tell you. My first suggestion, which also makes people upset, is to turn off your computer, get up, and go outside with a camera. And just look at stuff. Look at shapes and textures, look how light interacts with objects, look at colors of objects and light.

    And then try to figure out where the light is coming from, where and why it's bouncing, what color it assumes, etc.

    And then look at shadows. Try to figure out why they are the way they are.

    You can't model the real world if you don't really know what it looks like. Take reference photos and store them on your computer.

    Very good idea! I'll confess that I haven't done it myself and I know that I should. It could be argued that this is better advice for the professional modeler rather than an amateur who just wants to play around. But of course; then the amateur comes looking for help on creating better scenes... ;)

    This is time consuming. Many people do want the fast one-word answer (I'll blame Google here).

    One thing that I have started doing since getting into 3D is stopping to look at something completely everyday normal...often otherwise ignored in the hustle-bustle of living. I do look at it for a bit. Consider how I might try to model it. So I'm not far from your advice -- I just need to get out with the camera...

    Then I'd suggest starting with a comprehensive text on 3D concepts. I'm a bit biased :) , but I'd start with something like Isaac Kerlow's book "The Art of 3d: Computer Animation and Effects". The guy is really good, has a lot of experience in feature films, is one of the pioneers in this stuff, and knows what he's talking about.

    Another book gets added to my ever-growing pile. I wish I was a speed-reader so that I could get through these. I should clear out some of my older, out-of-date computer books...

    Try to match your reference photo EXACTLY. This is, IMO, one of the best ways to understand how the real world works. Guaranteed, every time you do it you'll learn a lot.

    This is a very interesting idea.

    I'll let you know when I give it a whirl.

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 654
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    I don't own LW but according to their page for all the v11.5 goodness, soft body and cloth comes to their use of Bullet. Bullet hard body dynamics are in v11.

    High priced plugins kept me away from LW and 3ds Max way back when I could've bought them.

    That is another point of concern for me...my investment in various props and models from Daz. I'm sure that I can still use Carrara to put together a scene and then export the whole thing as an OBJ file...

    You can use the content that way. The content has saved you hours and hours of modeling and tweaking so you can use more hours and hours setting things up and rendering. :)

    As long as you have the program you will be able to do the basic stuff. It's the fancier stuff that gives some folks problems.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited November 2012

    Garstor said:
    Very good idea! I'll confess that I haven't done it myself and I know that I should. It could be argued that this is better advice for the professional modeler rather than an amateur who just wants to play around. But of course; then the amateur comes looking for help on creating better scenes... ;)

    This is time consuming. Many people do want the fast one-word answer (I'll blame Google here)..

    One thing I will never quite figure out about hobbyists is the apparent attitude that it's okay to spend 6 months, or a year, or two, or more banging their head against the wall trying to figure out how the software works. But it's NOT okay to spend a tiny fraction of that time learning what they're doing, especially if it doesn't involve playing with software.

    Playing with software, not matter how long it takes and how little you improve, requires no justification for most hobbyists. But spending a couple hours outside learning what you're doing (and, BTW, enjoying and appreciating the beauty of the world around you) is just too much to even consider.

    I'd rather sit at my computer for two weeks trying to figure out how to get the global illumination settings to work (even though I don't really know what they all mean) than to lift my head up and look at the lighting in the room I'm in and try to figure out what the lighting is really doing. And maybe in the process I'll save hours of render time and get a better result.

    Yes, I'm exaggerating, and no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular, and yes, I know everyone will be offended and upset....

    But it's true, no?

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    I don't own LW but according to their page for all the v11.5 goodness, soft body and cloth comes to their use of Bullet. Bullet hard body dynamics are in v11.

    High priced plugins kept me away from LW and 3ds Max way back when I could've bought them.

    That is another point of concern for me...my investment in various props and models from Daz. I'm sure that I can still use Carrara to put together a scene and then export the whole thing as an OBJ file...

    You can use the content that way. The content has saved you hours and hours of modeling and tweaking so you can use more hours and hours setting things up and rendering. :)

    As long as you have the program you will be able to do the basic stuff. It's the fancier stuff that gives some folks problems.

    I don't know about the rendering but it lets me get right to doing what I enjoy most, staging.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yes, I'm exaggerating, and no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular, and yes, I know everyone will be offended and upset....

    But it's true, no?


    True. Real art is in technique, and that you only get from practice.... Definitely having periods of obsessive experimenting can really improve how you use the software....

    There's that story about the rich man who paid an artist to paint a fish.... and after months the artist hadn't given him the painting. So the man goes to the artist's house and demands to see the painting and the artist opens a door and hundreds of fish paintings fall out...

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