Horse 2 problems?

edited December 1969 in The Commons

Fist off I just want to say that I love the way that this new horse model bends without breaking the mesh in extreme poses, I love the mapping although am very disappointed that uvs for the MilHorse textures are not included in the same way that V5 can use V4's maps.

But I'm really confused as to why the conforming mane figures don't cover the whole mane? I may have missed a setting but all horse manes grow the full length of their necks starting between the ears down onto the withers unless it is pulled or shaved for a show.

That's great for renders of horse shows but for most of my artwork I use the horse in a natural state, wild horses, native ponies, horses carrying their riders into battle or on quests would hardly have had part of their manes shaved as the fashion in the show ring..

One other problem I've come across is when applying some (but not all) of my own MilHorse poses the geometry is breaking on the hooves. Most of the poses are spot on apart from needing the rotations adjusted for the hooves which will be easy for me to sort out but this one has me puzzled as to why it's only on a few poses? I seem to remember a similar thing happening in Poser years ago with the P4 horse and Posette but can't remember what the cause was as it was so long ago.

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Comments

  • ArkathanArkathan Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Genesis does the fly-away feet thing on some V4/M4 poses. IIRC, Adam made a script to make them behave.

  • edited December 1969

    Arkathan said:
    Genesis does the fly-away feet thing on some V4/M4 poses. IIRC, Adam made a script to make them behave.

    I hadn't come across that with Genesis yet, I wonder why it does it with some and not others? will check out my poses and see if there's anything to do with ik in them.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    I think it's because of x/y/z translation values, that are normally hidden. You may need to do 'show hidden properties' to fix them yourself. I don't know if the script to auto-fix this will work with the horse, as I don't know if it's looking for bones specifically by name, or if it just walks the entire bone list removing all the translation values regardless of bone node name.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,820
    edited December 1969

    The pose problem looks to be the same as what happens when applying some V4/M4 poses to Genesis. It's because the position of the hands/feet (in this case hooves) don't quite match up, There's an correction script for Genesis, so it probably one needs to be written for the horse, too...

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    The script I downloaded ages ago is looking for bones specifically by name, so a modified version would be necessary for the horse, since it has different bone names. But the principal still applies: you can fix this by hand by showing hidden properties and setting all x/y/z translation values to zero.

  • edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    I think it's because of x/y/z translation values, that are normally hidden. You may need to do 'show hidden properties' to fix them yourself. I don't know if the script to auto-fix this will work with the horse, as I don't know if it's looking for bones specifically by name, or if it just walks the entire bone list removing all the translation values regardless of bone node name.

    Thank you! That was it, for some reason some of my poses had values in them for x/y/z translations on the hooves whilst most didn't, not sure why? Some of my poses I had created in either DS 2 or 3, don't remember which and exported the poses via a great free script so it could possibly be from that?

    Anyways just in the middle of editing them all to remove the parameters. Thanks again x

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    Poses are likely to have translation values if they were saved with IK on. You can edit the translation values to have min=max=0 if you like (show hidden properties, then click the gear icon on the slider, Parameter Settings, make sure Respect Limits is ticked and that the min and max are 0 - that's how they fixed Genesis, as I recall)

  • edited December 1969

    Thank you for that, will remember in the future.

    One other thing I've noticed is that there isn't any geometry for the fetlocks so no feathers for this horse unless added in post but that leaves animators without the option of heavy horses and hairy native types. Can't understand why it was left out when it was present in the Milhorse?

  • edited December 1969

    Totte said:

    Thank you for the link, I missed it earlier.

  • KSamarraKSamarra Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm having the same problem in Poser. Here are the changes you need to make:

    PART BEFORE AFTER
    Body Y trans 0 Y Trans -0.580 (lowers “floating horse”)
    rPasternHind Bend -25 Bend 0
    rHoofHind Bend -8 Bend 0
    rPasternFore Bend -25 Bend 0
    rHoofFore Bend 1 Bend 0

    (then do the same for the left)

    Does anyone know how to write a script in Poser to do this translation automatically?

    Horse2_Millenium_FU.jpg
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  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,242
    edited December 1969
  • TeighTeigh Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    But I'm really confused as to why the conforming mane figures don't cover the whole mane? I may have missed a setting but all horse manes grow the full length of their necks starting between the ears down onto the withers unless it is pulled or shaved for a show.

    I to 'am wondering about this.
    Any ideas how to get a full mane?

  • edited December 2012

    Teigh said:
    But I'm really confused as to why the conforming mane figures don't cover the whole mane? I may have missed a setting but all horse manes grow the full length of their necks starting between the ears down onto the withers unless it is pulled or shaved for a show.

    I to 'am wondering about this.
    Any ideas how to get a full mane?

    Not really any way with the mane that comes with it apart from some major morphing and that would probably end up patchy,

    I'm making a new one at the moment which will be a freebie on my website once I've figured out how to package a Daz Studio item although it's still only in beta stages. I've deliberately only made it with a single layer so that you can add as little or many as you want. I don't know if it's really what other people will like but I'm happier with it for myself anyway.

    Just one small problem with it at the moment is that I'm new to creating in DS and used the auto rig and when the neck bends it isn't totally following the bend but instead floating a little above, not sure how to fix it?

    There's a post with pictures about it over on my website if anybody is interested.

    I'm hoping to have it finished and released with the headcollar a a Christmas pressie if I get the work on my website out of the way in time :)

    lfg-DH2-Vue-002b-002.jpg
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    Post edited by angela_64b690a76b on
  • edited December 1969

    KSamarra said:
    I'm having the same problem in Poser. Here are the changes you need to make:

    PART BEFORE AFTER
    Body Y trans 0 Y Trans -0.580 (lowers “floating horse”)
    rPasternHind Bend -25 Bend 0
    rHoofHind Bend -8 Bend 0
    rPasternFore Bend -25 Bend 0
    rHoofFore Bend 1 Bend 0

    (then do the same for the left)

    Does anyone know how to write a script in Poser to do this translation automatically?

    Thank you for that, it's very annoying that it loads floating in mid air lol.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 5,568
    edited December 1969

    The mane is a real problem. IDK why it is so short. there should be several styles from stiff to long and free-flowing. None of the hroses I've ridden had tufts of their mane cut like that. . I also think the reins are poorly done. They are difficult to pose properly and they do not come with any sets where a character is properly posed gripping them. Had the same trouble with Mil horse. And no, having the character ride bareback doesn't solve the issue... Although it may indeed look better than gripping those reins. =-)

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    Teigh said:
    But I'm really confused as to why the conforming mane figures don't cover the whole mane? I may have missed a setting but all horse manes grow the full length of their necks starting between the ears down onto the withers unless it is pulled or shaved for a show.

    I to 'am wondering about this.
    Any ideas how to get a full mane?

    Not really any way with the mane that comes with it apart from some major morphing and that would probably end up patchy,

    I'm making a new one at the moment which will be a freebie on my website once I've figured out how to package a Daz Studio item although it's still only in beta stages. I've deliberately only made it with a single layer so that you can add as little or many as you want. I don't know if it's really what other people will like but I'm happier with it for myself anyway.

    Just one small problem with it at the moment is that I'm new to creating in DS and used the auto rig and when the neck bends it isn't totally following the bend but instead floating a little above, not sure how to fix it?

    There's a post with pictures about it over on my website if anybody is interested.

    I'm hoping to have it finished and released with the headcollar a a Christmas pressie if I get the work on my website out of the way in time :)

    Terrific, I've been playing with it in Hex but don't really know the best way to go about it. I've been able to create some additional pieces but not sure how to set it up in DS.So I'm really looking forward to yours.

  • edited December 1969

    The mane is a real problem. IDK why it is so short. there should be several styles from stiff to long and free-flowing. None of the hroses I've ridden had tufts of their mane cut like that. . I also think the reins are poorly done. They are difficult to pose properly and they do not come with any sets where a character is properly posed gripping them. Had the same trouble with Mil horse. And no, having the character ride bareback doesn't solve the issue... Although it may indeed look better than gripping those reins. =-)

    The only horses I've ever seen it done on her in the UK are arabs and minis at shows, I think it looks ugly as hell, but then again I have 2 hairy natives and a thoroughbred that thinks she is one lol.

    I haven't even installed the other stuff yet due to lack of time so can't comment on the reins but if they are the same as the MilHorse stuff the only way I can think of that would be better would to have them fully rigged with lots of bones as if I remember right the MilHorse ones were mainly posed by morphs? I usually just make them invisible and paint them in myself but that wouldn't be any good whatsoever for animators..

  • edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Terrific, I've been playing with it in Hex but don't really know the best way to go about it. I've been able to create some additional pieces but not sure how to set it up in DS.So I'm really looking forward to yours.

    I made this one in Hexagon, it's made up of lots of separate parts, here it is without the transparency map. I've mapped it so that the texture can be used on the default tail (but not the trans maps) so they will match.

    One problem is that I forgot to rename all the MATs before rigging and now I've made a load of morphs for it I'm not sure if I will loose them by rigging a version with the fixed material zones? At the moment each strand has it's own material, I just select them all to apply the textures at the moment.

    I mirrored a few of the strands in Hexagon a rigged that too for some stray mane on the wrong side, but haven't made any morphs for it yet.

    The length morph that I did for the main mane (no pun intended..) looks a bit straggly with the current transparency map so I will have to make a new one for that too.

    I've only added 2 layers for the forelock in the base mane as once you add 2 or 3 mane figures to the dhorse2 it will look pretty thick, but I'm thinking about making separate forelocks as well as fetlock feathers in the future.

    lfg-lfg-DHorse2-mane-001-001-035.jpg
    800 x 625 - 44K
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 5,568
    edited December 1969

    The reins are hard to use, and have no pose sets included. They look fine in a default pose, but when you have Michael or Vick actually try to hold them in proper riding position, they are awful and look really bad. None of the pose or animation sets include proper horse tack riding position. I am kind of surprised by this, since this is supposed to be an improvement to the previous horse, and mil horse gear had the same issue. To me, not having horse reins which actually work is a big negative. There are only so many wild bareback horses one wants to render. It is like selling a clothing set that doesn't fit anything except a simple position. Not useful.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Terrific, I've been playing with it in Hex but don't really know the best way to go about it. I've been able to create some additional pieces but not sure how to set it up in DS.So I'm really looking forward to yours.

    I made this one in Hexagon, it's made up of lots of separate parts, here it is without the transparency map. I've mapped it so that the texture can be used on the default tail (but not the trans maps) so they will match.

    One problem is that I forgot to rename all the MATs before rigging and now I've made a load of morphs for it I'm not sure if I will loose them by rigging a version with the fixed material zones? At the moment each strand has it's own material, I just select them all to apply the textures at the moment.

    I mirrored a few of the strands in Hexagon a rigged that too for some stray mane on the wrong side, but haven't made any morphs for it yet.

    The length morph that I did for the main mane (no pun intended..) looks a bit straggly with the current transparency map so I will have to make a new one for that too.

    I've only added 2 layers for the forelock in the base mane as once you add 2 or 3 mane figures to the dhorse2 it will look pretty thick, but I'm thinking about making separate forelocks as well as fetlock feathers in the future.

    Wow, I love what you've done so far. I'm not sure if you would lose the morphs if you renamed the mats. Hopefully someone who knows more can answer.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    The reins are hard to use, and have no pose sets included. They look fine in a default pose, but when you have Michael or Vick actually try to hold them in proper riding position, they are awful and look really bad.

    Agree 100%. I had to use a couple D-Formers to get the figure in my render to hold the horse reins, and the resulting deformations to the reins mesh looks pretty bad. Minimally, the reins should have been rigged with multiple bones for them to actually be usable.

  • edited December 2012

    @Pendraia Thank you :) It's no where near perfect but I'm in love with the way you can save morphs in DS4.5 and it outputs them to folders, so I was hoping to release it and add too them over time and to start a collection where others can also add to them and I will upload them to my website.

    Here is another collection of quick renders, no lighting at all with these just for speed, just put together in PhotoScape. This is with 3 of the manes added and all of them with slightly different morphs dialled in. I haven't started on the forelock morphs yet, I've been working on my website and learning how too use WooCommerce the past couple of days so I can fully integrate my store into it and host my freebies there too, trouble is I keep distracting myself lol.

    lfg-page3-002.jpg
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    Post edited by angela_64b690a76b on
  • edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    The reins are hard to use, and have no pose sets included. They look fine in a default pose, but when you have Michael or Vick actually try to hold them in proper riding position, they are awful and look really bad.

    Agree 100%. I had to use a couple D-Formers to get the figure in my render to hold the horse reins, and the resulting deformations to the reins mesh looks pretty bad. Minimally, the reins should have been rigged with multiple bones for them to actually be usable.

    Ditto both of you.

    I'd also love to see some modern riding gear, as in everyday casual stuff, Joules type tops, coloured joddies, half chaps and jodhpur boots, the new riding outfit is lovely but most horse people spend most of their time covered in mud, hair and hay lol.

    Other stuff I'd love to see are a proper dressage saddle and bridle, a realistic medieval, every day type tack set and the Spanish set redone for the DHorse2 :)

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 5,568
    edited December 1969

    Wow, your morphs for horse 2, look wonderful Ladyfyre. =-) The mane in particular is dynamite.

  • edited December 1969

    Thank you :) the morph is an alternative the the Daz arab, this one is supposed to be more ponyish like my old boy was many years ago :)

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    @Pendraia Thank you :) It's no where near perfect but I'm in love with the way you can save morphs in DS4.5 and it outputs them to folders, so I was hoping to release it and add too them over time and to start a collection where others can also add to them and I will upload them to my website.

    Here is another collection of quick renders, no lighting at all with these just for speed, just put together in PhotoScape. This is with 3 of the manes added and all of them with slightly different morphs dialled in. I haven't started on the forelock morphs yet, I've been working on my website and learning how too use WooCommerce the past couple of days so I can fully integrate my store into it and host my freebies there too, trouble is I keep distracting myself lol.

    They are al beautiful...if someone can tell me the correct process to create the morphs I'm happy to have a go but I don't think my efforts would be as good as yours.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,820
    edited December 1969

    Personally, I think the lack of mane/hair may be a boon to the upcoming hair plugins...I know I'm going to use one of them for most of my detail hair needs, especially for things like a mane.

    I made a horse head morph for Genesis..and for the original promo shot, I used a 'regular' hair...last night I was playing around with the one hair plug in beta. I didn't spend much time on this...yeah, unless it's a 'native' and mid-winter, most horses won't have that much 'fur'...but the mane is what I was more interested in.

    So, when the hair plugins come out, all your mane/fetlock/tail problems will be solved...

    hair209.jpg
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  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,242
    edited December 2012

    Ladyfyre-Graphics: that mane is looking wonderful!

    Like I love your The Ultimate Equine - Millennium Horse Edition poses ...

    Post edited by Kerya on
  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 321
    edited December 1969

    I'm really surprised that a bridle path of any length was modelled into the base figure, let alone one as long as this, which is not often seen (a couple of inches is more likely). Not good for most domestic horses (at least those that I see) or for any wild horses at all. Very odd decision.

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