Realistic Renders...NOT!! 11 "Hello Rogerbee!"

1679111249

Comments

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,924
    edited November 2012

    Genesis should have:
    1. Cornea (Use glass like settings for real reflections OR your transparent eye reflections textures (Eye lights) )
    2. Iris: Colour of the eye, self explanitory.
    3. Pupil, can use black surface OR textures, I use textures.
    4. Sclera The eye whites, these can be tricky to get right, but I use M5 Philip parameters for this with my own textures.
    5. Tear... Can use glass like settings for real reflections OR your transparent eye reflections textures (Eye lights)
    6. Lacrimal: which is the tear duct... I do NOT use fake burnt in reflections on this as it just looks fake.

    A good set of really realistic 'eyelights' or fake reflections for the cornea and tear is available in Interjection (Daz3d) Absolutely fantastic! The SSS mats are the best I've ever came across as well. Well worth it :)

    There are really two ways to go about eyes. I do both depending on the task. 1. Realistic with Real ray traced reflections. OR 2. Realistic but with Fake reflections.

    I use "1" in full scenes with lights purposely in place to cause good reflections in the eyes. It will reflect the scene/environment but will also get lights reflected if positioned tactically, like on a movie set.

    I use "2" with what I call, "studio" renders... Where there is no actual set/physical environment. For renders like Rogerbee does, this method is fantastic, and I use Interjections eye reflections for this method.

    -----------------------

    I standardize ALL my characters with the same eye parameters (Excluding fantasy/sci-fi of course) I use M5 Phillip's shadowed eyes parameters, his eye shadow texture with my own custom Sclera, Iris and pupil (Made in Photoshop using Philips textures as a base)

    It should be noted that Philip comes with a transparent PNG texture with the shadow to use in Photoshop :) Use it all the time. You'll find it in the Runtime.

    I use Phillips ray trace and glass settings for the cornea and eye for the "real" reflections, and use Interjections parameters for "fake" or "eyelights" reflections.

    Post edited by SpyroRue on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,712
    edited November 2012

    ...I was wondering why my Genesis Leela's expressions looked so blank. I'll see what I can do though GenX.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited November 2012

    Below are the renders of Victoria 4.2 character Exemplary Girl, rendered with the included light set.
    Very nice textures and morphs. Click each of the images to see them enlarged.

    ExemplaryGirl02pic06MoiraHair.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 334K
    ExemplaryGirl02pic05MoiraHair.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 282K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited November 2012

    ps1borg said:
    Rogerbee said:

    Ah, yeah, the Eyelights only work on the eye surface, which Genesis doesn't have. Genesis eyes only have a cornea, iris and pupil. If you use the properties of the eye surface on the cornea you don't quite get the same results. That was why I asked, all the eye tutorials I've found are all for Gen 4. I think Daz boobed big time not giving Genesis the same eyes as Gen 4.

    I'll persevere....

    CHEERS!

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/6376/P75/

    Has comments and a tute about settings for genesis eyes. :)

    Genesis should have:
    1. Cornea (Use glass like settings for real reflections OR your transparent eye reflections textures (Eye lights) )
    2. Iris: Colour of the eye, self explanitory.
    3. Pupil, can use black surface OR textures, I use textures.
    4. Sclera The eye whites, these can be tricky to get right, but I use M5 Philip parameters for this with my own textures.
    5. Tear... Can use glass like settings for real reflections OR your transparent eye reflections textures (Eye lights)
    6. Lacrimal: which is the tear duct... I do NOT use fake burnt in reflections on this as it just looks fake.

    A good set of really realistic 'eyelights' or fake reflections for the cornea and tear is available in Interjection (Daz3d) Absolutely fantastic! The SSS mats are the best I've ever came across as well. Well worth it :)

    There are really two ways to go about eyes. I do both depending on the task. 1. Realistic with Real ray traced reflections. OR 2. Realistic but with Fake reflections.

    I use "1" in full scenes with lights purposely in place to cause good reflections in the eyes. It will reflect the scene/environment but will also get lights reflected if positioned tactically, like on a movie set.

    I use "2" with what I call, "studio" renders... Where there is no actual set/physical environment. For renders like Rogerbee does, this method is fantastic, and I use Interjections eye reflections for this method.

    -----------------------

    I standardize ALL my characters with the same eye parameters (Excluding fantasy/sci-fi of course) I use M5 Phillip's shadowed eyes parameters, his eye shadow texture with my own custom Sclera, Iris and pupil (Made in Photoshop using Philips textures as a base)

    It should be noted that Philip comes with a transparent PNG texture with the shadow to use in Photoshop :) Use it all the time. You'll find it in the Runtime.

    I use Phillips ray trace and glass settings for the cornea and eye for the "real" reflections, and use Interjections parameters for "fake" or "eyelights" reflections.

    All well and good guys, but, I use Poser, everything you suggest is for DS.

    All the attempts I've made so far with doing what the eye surface did with the cornea just put that silly looking dot in the middle of the pupil. Transmapped reflections are all that really work as they should as they go where they should, but, not all of them look good.The reflection maps I did a few pages back don't show up so well in the light set up I'm using now.

    Nearly all of the eye textures I like use the eye surface to get their best effects. One possible solution is to create a clear sphere prop, scale it to the same size as the eye, or thereabouts, and place it over the eye. Then, hopefully, you could get that to behave like the eye surface used to.

    What I think really should be done is to give Genesis Gen4 eyes, there was nothing in them at all that needed updating. If Daz did this it would solve all the problems. When Genesis was just for DS it was fine, you guys could make adjustments to the eyes that would work. However, Poser isn't set up like that, we got the best results with Gen 4 eyes, all the best Poser light set ups are geared towards Gen 4 eyes.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    Below are the renders of Victoria 4.2 character Exemplary Girl, rendered with the included light set.
    Very nice textures and morphs. Click each of the images to see them enlarged.

    Very nice,

    I know that's supposed to be Natalie Portman, but, I think she looks more like Eva Mendes.

    CHEERS!

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 9,819
    edited December 1969

    The eye surface issue is very noticeable using a physical renderer, I wonder if the Lux guys have come up with a fix. I looked into using UVs and P data as parameters to apply a reflect node to all the eye surfaces but didn't seem to work. I noticed also any shadow across sclera like from eyelashes is also trashed, don't really know what to do about that except look for clues in the procedures used for Studio. Right now kit bashing some geometry over the eyes seems the only feasible workaround but there is always another way I reckon/hope/xfingers :)

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    I've been mulling this over all day and this thought came to mind and won't go away:

    Can you load a Gen 4 side by side with Genesis and somehow take the eyes out of the Gen 4 head and plug them into the Genesis head!? If you parent them to the Genesis eyes they'd move when they did. Could you then make the Genesis eyes invisible and just use the Gen 4 eyes instead!?

    It's an interesting theory, and one I fancy trying

    CHEERS!

    PS (This thread is now as much about hints and tips for creating renders as much as it is posting them, so if you have any tips or ideas, let's brainstorm!)

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    This is Lana from before but with mix and match eyes from Farissa and Lana, it's the best I can do for now.

    CHEERS!

    V5_Lana_UE_2.jpg
    588 x 600 - 170K
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    The eye idea I had above doesn't work, trying to change anything in the Setup room just crashes Poser. Back to the sphere prop idea I think!

    CHEERS!

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 9,819
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    I've been mulling this over all day and this thought came to mind and won't go away:

    Can you load a Gen 4 side by side with Genesis and somehow take the eyes out of the Gen 4 head and plug them into the Genesis head!? If you parent them to the Genesis eyes they'd move when they did. Could you then make the Genesis eyes invisible and just use the Gen 4 eyes instead!?

    It's an interesting theory, and one I fancy trying

    CHEERS!

    PS (This thread is now as much about hints and tips for creating renders as much as it is posting them, so if you have any tips or ideas, let's brainstorm!)

    Good thought. Conforming eyes ?

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    If someone could open V4 up in a decent 3D program and export her eyes as .obj's and maintain all the levels of detail they could then be smart propped to the Genesis eyes. It can almost be done in Poser, V4's eyes can be exported, imported and smart propped and the prop eyes have all the correct material zones, however, the resolution goes to pot. If the prop eyes could be properly UV mapped then they might work perfectly.

    If someone that can UV map or apply V4 UV's to them can try making smart props of her eyes so we can use them with Genesis then we might actually be getting somewhere.

    BTW, I tried spheres, but they couldn't be scaled properly and I couldn't get the reflection map to work.

    My own eyes are pretty knackered from trying!

    CHEERS!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited December 1969

    Hello, Rogerbee. What kind of Genesis eyes look in Poser are you after? Do you have any example of it?
    Below is a close up render of Exemplary Girl with Tequila hair. Click the image to see it enlarged.

    ExemplaryGirl03pic03TequilaHairBrown.jpg
    1000 x 1200 - 352K
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited December 1969

    One more close up render of Exemplary Girl with Tequila hair. Click the image to see it enlarged.

    ExemplaryGirl03pic04TequilaHairBrown.jpg
    1000 x 1200 - 360K
  • MotoTsumeMotoTsume Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    steph 5

    in Daz Studio 4.5 Pro

    step5-riley1-sml.jpg
    1170 x 1500 - 316K
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited December 1969

    I have finally installed SR3.1 update to the Poser Pro 2012, so I am a step closer to installing a DSON importer.
    Temptress is also a very nice character set for Victoria 4.2. Below are renders of her with Vania hair.
    Click each of the images to see them enlarged.

    V4Temptress01pic11VaniaHairBrown.jpg
    900 x 1200 - 276K
    V4Temptress01pic10VaniaHairBrown.jpg
    900 x 1200 - 359K
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited December 1969

    One more render: Temptress walking the street.
    Click the image to see it enlarged.

    V4Temptress02pic04SoTSunset2.jpg
    900 x 1200 - 328K
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited November 2012

    Artini said:
    Hello, Rogerbee. What kind of Genesis eyes look in Poser are you after? Do you have any example of it?
    Below is a close up render of Exemplary Girl with Tequila hair. Click the image to see it enlarged.

    You really got me thinking on this,

    It took me all day to come up with renders that illustrated what I wanted them to, but I eventually cracked it.

    Below is a Gen 4 eye with a reflection map applied to the eye surface, note how the reflection is over the whole eye and how smooth the sclera looks, also, the whole eye has the proper spherical look to it. Now, the next render is of a Genesis eye, same lighting, same textures, only, without an eye surface, the reflection map can only be applied to the cornea. The cornea now looks spherical and seems to float in front of a flat looking sclera. I think you can see now why Genesis should have used Gen 4 eyes.

    All is not lost here either, I emailed Richard Haseltine and he thinks that a set of Gen 4 type eyes could be GeoGrafted to the existing ones. I'm going to put a thread in product suggestions and file a bug report.

    Watch this space.....

    CHEERS!

    Genesis_Eyes.jpg
    588 x 600 - 198K
    Gen_4_Eyes.jpg
    588 x 600 - 197K
    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    I have finally installed SR3.1 update to the Poser Pro 2012, so I am a step closer to installing a DSON importer.
    Temptress is also a very nice character set for Victoria 4.2. Below are renders of her with Vania hair.
    Click each of the images to see them enlarged.

    Very nice,

    Now she IS Eva Mendes.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    MotoTsume said:
    steph 5

    in Daz Studio 4.5 Pro

    Nice render Moto,

    S5 is on my list!

    CHEERS!

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,924
    edited November 2012

    Now I understand what you were talking about Rogerbee. Yeah it is obviously an issue with genesis, perhaps Daz could make it an update for genesis instead of a geocraft ?

    Hopefully they'll do something about it with your bug report.

    Post edited by SpyroRue on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    That was one idea, but, due to the way Genesis is put together it'd take a LOT of work. GeoGrafting would take less work and could be released as a store product for those that wished to use it. I even have a name that will make it appealing: Elite Eyes for Genesis. You do anything Elite and it sells!

    CHEERS!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited November 2012

    Thanks, Rogerbee. Now I can also see the difference between the Gen 4 eyes and Genesis ones.
    I am glad, you spotted that difference, because I have made a lot of renders of Genesis
    but did not noticed it. Hopefully somebody release geografted Elite Eyes for Genesis;
    and I like that name, too.

    Post edited by Artini on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Thanks,

    I'm gathering input from other artists to see if the idea will be a viable one. I want to make fully sure it is before putting together the product suggestion as I really want to get it done properly. I think it's a great idea, but the product is for everyone.

    CHEERS!

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,924
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee... May I ask, your last rendered images, the one of the eye... Did you modify the texture there to add the eyelid detail, or was that post work? Also, what texture set are you using? It's incredible detail! And the eyebrows are amazing resolution, most are pretty bad when you get that close.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited November 2012

    The skin texture is, believe it or not, the Elite Lana texture.

    The major thing I did with it was to modify it with EZ Skin 2, it applies a procedural bump map to the skin, but not to the eyebrow. That's where most texture artists fall down by including the eyebrows in the bump map when they don't need them. What you see in my close up is the eyebrow as it appeared in the original reference photo the texture was created from.

    The downside, well for DS users anyway, is that EZ Skin 2 is only for Poser.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,924
    edited December 1969

    Wow, well it certainly makes a difference! Sucks its only Poser, as I'm a daz user lol. Well done, you know your stuff :cheese:

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Well, we Poser users have to have an answer to the Elite Human Surface Shader. Still, now that UberEnvironment is a DUF we can use it in Poser. That's how I lit the scene! I made a custom light set that was suggested by Caisson, then, I added the UberEnvironment light and sphere to it using D3D's DSON Loader script. I could then add the correct texture to the environment sphere, a tweak or two here and there and it renders brilliantly with IDL.

    CHEERS!

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 1,425
    edited December 1969

    I used UE before Lux i liked it but nothing gives me results like Lux. I know you guys have to wait a bit. I will finally be posting a barrage of nice sci fi renders later or tomorrow...

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Bring 'em on!

    The more the merrier!

    CHEERS!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,286
    edited December 1969

    I have made two close up renders of Stephanie 5 Curvy eye in Daz Studio 4.5.1.6 Pro.
    Below is the first render of Stephanie 5 Curvy with default materials.
    I also attach the picture of render settings used.

    RenderSettings.jpg
    334 x 742 - 102K
    SP5CurvyEye01pic01.jpg
    1024 x 1024 - 460K
This discussion has been closed.
Rocket Fuel