No Nude allowed...but Gore is OK??

245

Comments

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited December 1969

    Mr Leong said:
    Here's what I see as a difference: 1) This is to demonstrate a product in the store as an exception because there was a necessity to show how the product works (since it's a bit more detailed than just some breast shots), not anyone's personal work that could be posted anywhere. And 2) there was permission from DAZ to do this in this way. To tie it in with someone wanting to post their personal stuff really doesn't compare.

    Hopefully they can get the filters working in the forum again, but until then this discussion really isn't going to go anywhere other than complaining.

    I like nudity. I like gore. So I'm looking at this from a neutral point of view.

    This is just an observation. NGM for Genesis Female came out recently. It was a product in the store, but the PA gave links to other sites to show the unrestricted images. The dA page had over a thousand views in 24 hrs. :cheese:

    I'm guessing the anti-gore group would want something similar with the gory images as links rather than actually displaying it here.
    Or at the very least, a compromise, and have the main image as one of the secondary images where, in order for someone to see it, they would have to intentionally go to the product page.

    exactly!

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 1,205
    edited December 1969

    I think some of the other promo images for that product would be more appropriate for the main image (and certainly for a banner in the forums) than the one with the samurai, even I'm a little put off by that image. I can't blindly agree with Rawn and MM on this issue; that picture should be the last of the promo images so that only those who are interested in the product would see it.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 423
    edited December 1969

    I miss the "Family Site" feeling was Daz in the past, if I can remember well, that was a underground slogan in the past days.

    is very difficult insert html5 or any form of applets for such filter modes?, like larsmidnatt said, not everyone is the target audience, and yep, dA got many views of customers being redirected for just a bunch of images for, if any interested, again doing a back in their browsers for buy the product, btw, dA is powerful, I haven't submitted a single render on my dA account since October 18, 2011... and 50 minutes ago there still fans looking for my works.

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    I am not allowed to go to Renderotica anymore because of what I said to them about the violent content they sell that shows women being tortured, dismembered, stabbed and mutilated. I think it's sick and do not understand how people create it, people buy it and the site sells it. Just an opinion.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited November 2012

    Ledhead said:
    I am not allowed to go to Renderotica anymore because of what I said to them about the violent content they sell that shows women being tortured, dismembered, stabbed and mutilated. I think it's sick and do not understand how people create it, people buy it and the site sells it. Just an opinion.

    yeah thats why I don't go there either. I like my boobies and all but I don't like the sick stuff they have there. don't forget the cooking pots...argh

    I am not comparing the product at hand to that stuff though. I can see normal folks needing limbs in their projects and I think it can be sold here. just displayed differently.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,831
    edited December 1969

    Wow...what a thread...

    Boobies and Gore...

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    Blue-footed_Booby_Comparison.jpg
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  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    Ledhead said:
    I am not allowed to go to Renderotica anymore because of what I said to them about the violent content they sell that shows women being tortured, dismembered, stabbed and mutilated. I think it's sick and do not understand how people create it, people buy it and the site sells it. Just an opinion.

    yeah thats why I don't go there either. I like my boobies and all but I don't like the sick stuff they have there. don't forget the cooking pots...argh

    I am not comparing the product at hand to that stuff though. I can see normal folks needing limbs in their projects and I think it can be sold here. just displayed differently.

    I agree, this product certainly doesn't fall into that category. Yeah I forgot about having a woman for dinner and I don't mean she joins you. Sick indeed.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 423
    edited November 2012

    mjc1016 said:
    Wow...what a thread...

    Boobies and Gore...


    lovely image of the birds...but they can't be displayed here. :snake:

    Post edited by Zilvergrafix on
  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    There are several things to keep in mind when one decides to delve into the world of 3D art plus visit all the 3D art websites;

    - There are people from all over the world who do 3D art and there is a high probability that their view of what is acceptable/not acceptable is going to be different from yours.

    - When you visit the different websites that sell various 3D products, there is a high probability that their view of what is acceptable/not acceptable is going to be different from yours.

    Food for thought......

    *shrug*

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    I have a feeling my previous post will be removed because people find it offensive that I find it offensive.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited November 2012

    Ledhead said:
    I am not allowed to go to Renderotica anymore because of what I said to them about the violent content they sell that shows women being tortured, dismembered, stabbed and mutilated. I think it's sick and do not understand how people create it, people buy it and the site sells it. Just an opinion.

    The erotization of pain, injury, and death is a semi-common sexual kink -- although it seems to be distributed somewhat unevenly across the gender lines, there are plenty of women who enjoy it both catching and pitching. I'm sure RawArt's excellent product is going to be a big hit with the decapitation and cannibalism fetishists (among many others) regardless of the preferred gender of their virtual victims.

    But that's getting a bit off-topic. I agree with Mr Leong's point -- both the Natural Gravity Breast Morphs for Genesis and Severed Man provide needed functionality for Genesis even though what they can do is difficult to show under this site's ToS and guidelines, therefor similar care and sensitivity should be applied to the marketing of both products. Specifically (and IMHO), bloody severed limbs that are getting a special exemption in the product's promo topic do not belong in a sigline that goes everywhere on the forums, nor do they belong in the product's first promo shot. And the expression on that severed head is really disturbing (which is kudos for evocative artwork, but problematic in a promo).

    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 992
    edited December 1969

    Sincerely I can't understand this, we cannot show simply art with a few bits skin colored in sensible areas, right?, but we can post Gore images of people being ripped in parts!!???.

    Yep. Daz is based in the U.S., where toy stores can sell video games that allow the player to beat up prostitutes, run over pedestrians and mindlessly mow down hundreds of people with guns, but the idea of seeing naked breasts is somehow considered far more offensive. It makes little sense on a site that's theoretically devoted to the creation of art, but that's how it is. (And yet, ironically, almost all X-rated digital comics are built around Daz assets anyway. Go figure.)

    It does make sense on this website given what you said in your own post, that they are based in the US. DAZ is unfortunately subject to US laws and US puritanical pressures, and if I were them, I would err on the side of caution too. They aren't a huge corporate entity that can withstand a lot of legal hassles.

    I think it's both sad and stupid that this is the case, but I think it's even sadder and stupider to blame DAZ for the constraints under which they have chosen to acquiesce to. They are a small business in a specialty market just trying to make a profit, not an organization fighting for the right to bare breasts (though an extremely worth cause it is).

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    DAZ being based in the US has nothing to do with showing nudity. It is by their own choice and right.

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 775
    edited December 1969

    These severed promo pics seem very tame looking to me..... just showing a cool new product .... which is the purpose. You would really have to have a sheltered life to be offended by these pics (Of course I have all five of the Final Destination DVDs) I would also like to have nude promo pics for male and female characters so you can actually see the full product you are buying.... maybe with some thumbnail warning like other stores.

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited December 1969

    I don't have a sheltered life. I'm not offended. I don't like them. I find them sick. I can appreciate they need to be shown but I don't wish to have them forced upon me. I find interesting that US folk are so puritanical about rendered boobies but blood, guts are gore get's inflicted on people willy nilly.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited November 2012

    MrPoser said:
    These severed promo pics seem very tame looking to me..... just showing a cool new product .... which is the purpose. You would really have to have a sheltered life to be offended by these pics (Of course I have all five of the Final Destination DVDs) I would also like to have nude promo pics for male and female characters so you can actually see the full product you are buying.... maybe with some thumbnail warning like other stores.

    Huh? Sheltered? some issues with that mentality but lets move to the common ground.

    You would like to see the nudes for character products, and mention having a warning in place. That's all that is needed with the gore as well.

    I think NGM is a cool product and had some cool promo images to show it off, but they were on deviantart... Not in the daz store. Would have been nice if they were but apparently boobs are far more offensive then beheadings.

    I never saw any of the alternative shots for severed cause I never went to the product page, so it has nothing to do with them. You say they were tame but I won't ever know :)

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 992
    edited December 1969

    Ledhead said:
    DAZ being based in the US has nothing to do with showing nudity. It is by their own choice and right.

    The fact that gore is given a bit more leeway than nudity has everything to do with DAZ being in the US, as it reflects the attitude of the general public here. Pretending that it's not related just so you can blame DAZ is flat out silly. If the company was based in Brazil and run by Brazilians, I'm sure the policies would be different.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited November 2012

    OK...Is there anything that can be said at this point that would soothe tensions?

    This is a topic, that as a group, we will never be able to reach an agreement. I can honestly see everyone's point of view. No one likes to unexpectedly be surprised with things that make them uncomfortable. This is an "art" store though, and to some extent, we should expect there to be many diverse and controversial options available to artists.

    Yes, I agree, there should be filters in place. However, that hasn't been fixed in the forms yet, and at least the Daz3D team have tried to let us know the situation and have tried to contain it within one thread. I, for one, vote for more freedom on the forums if there is a poll....

    Post edited by JasmineSkunk on
  •  Son of Belmont Son of Belmont Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    There is absolutely nothing tame looking about the promo image for severed man and I'm surprised nobody at Daz had the sense to realise that before it was put up.When I clicked on new releases this morning I did not plan on being confronted with that sort of imagery.

    In regards to handling mature content I think all you need is a warning image that is switched around when you log in and click on the thumbnail kind of like a combination of the the approach used by Deviantart and Renderosity.

    Post edited by Son of Belmont on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited December 1969

    O However, that hasn't been fixed in the forms yet, and at least the Daz3D team have tried to let us know the situation and have tried to contain it within one thread.

    Except its in the store and also in the vendors footer on any post he makes including this one. :)

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    Ledhead said:
    DAZ being based in the US has nothing to do with showing nudity. It is by their own choice and right.

    The fact that gore is given a bit more leeway than nudity has everything to do with DAZ being in the US, as it reflects the attitude of the general public here. Pretending that it's not related just so you can blame DAZ is flat out silly. If the company was based in Brazil and run by Brazilians, I'm sure the policies would be different.

    Isn't Renderosity based in Tennessee? They show quite a bit of nudity on that site. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Freedom of Speech. I believe all of them are part of the USA. There are many nude channels on cable tv that show explicit sex. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,831
    edited December 1969

    Ledhead said:
    Ledhead said:
    DAZ being based in the US has nothing to do with showing nudity. It is by their own choice and right.

    The fact that gore is given a bit more leeway than nudity has everything to do with DAZ being in the US, as it reflects the attitude of the general public here. Pretending that it's not related just so you can blame DAZ is flat out silly. If the company was based in Brazil and run by Brazilians, I'm sure the policies would be different.

    Isn't Renderosity based in Tennessee? They show quite a bit of nudity on that site. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Freedom of Speech. I believe all of them are part of the USA. There are many nude channels on cable tv that show explicit sex. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

    And DAZ is in Utah...which, if not, Prude Central, is very darn close to it.

    At least they aren't in Australia.

    Freedom of Speech doesn't really apply, as the site is privately owned, so they can make their own rules.

  • GhostpantherGhostpanther Posts: 122
    edited December 1969

    I never would have thought, that the presentation of nudity and brutality in art would be explained with political circumstances ...
    But anyway, although I'm used to look on brutal scenes in e.g. baroque and medieval paintings, whenever I have to explain them in museums, and although I like action movies, I don't like this kind of explicit brutality - and you won't find me looking to pictures or movies like these free willingly, if I can avoid it.

    But a company like Daz, who had it on their flags so many years, that their forums and shop (!) are open to any kind of users of every age and origin should show some responsibility therefore !!
    If not by filters, then by some kind of warning in the title or under the presentation in the product - and naturally by not showing the most disturbing scene in the main promo !

    And, please, especially on your Facebook page, where you have many more youths, who are visiting, you shouldn't be too light-hearted as well !

  • MurgatroydMurgatroyd Posts: 585
    edited December 1969

    I think this would have been a much better choice for main promo. The other's an excellent example of what can be done with the product, but not the sort of thing I need put on my screen without warning.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited November 2012

    O However, that hasn't been fixed in the forms yet, and at least the Daz3D team have tried to let us know the situation and have tried to contain it within one thread.

    Except its in the store and also in the vendors footer on any post he makes including this one. :)

    Don't know about sigline footers, however new promo pics are time-consuming to make and approve. But I think this one shows off what the product can do without being any more bloody than necessary, and would make an excellent first promo pic (it's currently fourth). What do you guys think?

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    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Ledhead said:
    Ledhead said:
    DAZ being based in the US has nothing to do with showing nudity. It is by their own choice and right.

    The fact that gore is given a bit more leeway than nudity has everything to do with DAZ being in the US, as it reflects the attitude of the general public here. Pretending that it's not related just so you can blame DAZ is flat out silly. If the company was based in Brazil and run by Brazilians, I'm sure the policies would be different.

    Isn't Renderosity based in Tennessee? They show quite a bit of nudity on that site. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Freedom of Speech. I believe all of them are part of the USA. There are many nude channels on cable tv that show explicit sex. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

    And DAZ is in Utah...which, if not, Prude Central, is very darn close to it.

    At least they aren't in Australia.

    Freedom of Speech doesn't really apply, as the site is privately owned, so they can make their own rules.

    That is what I was saying. It has nothing to do with DAZ being in the US. It is by their choice. I am moving on as I do not want to get into a debate.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,831
    edited December 1969

    I never would have thought, that the presentation of nudity and brutality in art would be explained with political circumstances ...

    There's a term for it...and it begins with PC...Political Correctness...it's what you get when you let lawyers and politicians do your thinking.

  • PuntomausPuntomaus Posts: 415
    edited December 1969

    I think some of the other promo images for that product would be more appropriate for the main image (and certainly for a banner in the forums) than the one with the samurai, even I'm a little put off by that image. I can't blindly agree with Rawn and MM on this issue; that picture should be the last of the promo images so that only those who are interested in the product would see it.

    Completely agree with you. I don't expect this kind of images in this store. I'm a big horror fan but I don't want to have stuff like that pop into my face when I look at new releases. That's no critique of the product but of the way it's promoted and putting that banner in the sig is not that cool either.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 423
    edited December 1969

    the main idea of this is give me a right to choose view explicit content or not, is that simple!,

    I know many customers love gore, if you are happy with that, good for you, just let me the right to not view that!

    just apply common sense, a nipple/areola never will be more grotesque than a mutilated limb.

    Some user said that, agreed, pain, suffer, have a kink of sexuality, but the BASICS of sexuality is a naked body, not a ripped limb, only if you are a Mantis prayer, but that is not the case, and thus, they're another sexuality ways...that should be allowed too?, coprophagy?, necrophilia?, zoophilia?, pedophilia?, Oh sure we can bet such ramifications of human perversity will be more acceptable than a pair of boobs?, and I'm just talking just boobs, I can't even imagine rendering genitals...

  • KinnieMKinnieM Posts: 95
    edited December 1969

    I was quite surprised and disturbed when I first seen the main and quite gory promo for the Severed Man. As art work it was fantastically done and I could quite clearly picture using the product for creating several scenes. However, having said that it should not be shown as the first main promo for the product nor in RawArt's banner which will be seen all over these forums. While I appreciate the art that doesn't mean that I want to be confronted by it every time I visit the new releases page of the store or read threads in these forums.

    Daz need to be consistent with its polices in these matters and right now it's not. If exceptions are going to be made for one vendor then monitoring of that exception should be done very closely. I would have preferred that the image currently being used for the main promo have been used as the last one with a warning so that I could choose whether or not I wanted to see it. I don't have issues with breasts (or other body parts) being shown on promos here in the store if Daz was to do something along the lines of Renderosity or to go back to being able to view those images in an Art zone type gallery.

    Just my two cents worth.

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