$12,000 For One Render

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Comments

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,690
    edited December 1969

    wow if someone pays $12,000 for that render they need to contact me so i can sell them some good Bull Poo for fertilizer. and i'll sell it cheap $500 a bag full.lol

    The old saying there is a sucker born every minute ring any bells?

  • PetraR123PetraR123 Posts: 199
    edited December 1969

    Miss B said:
    Zaarin said:
    . . . unfortunately, as do the people using the "real" 3D programs that cost what this artist is making for his render. :P

    Or more likely double that price or more. I've always wanted Maya as it was used to create the later Myst games, which is how I got interested in 3D in the first place, but it's currently selling for $3,675. ~sheesh~

    Maya sounds great but I doubt I could ever afford it, unless I sell an Image for that kind of money before:))

  • PtropePtrope Posts: 287
    edited December 1969

    Miss B said:
    I'm just sitting here shaking my head that it was printed with an inkjet printer. Unbelievable! You can't get true RGB colors with an inkjet, only CYMK. With a good commercial laser printer, however, you could.

    You're never going to get RGB color with a printer - RGB is an additive colorspace, where white is created by adding R-G-B; CMYK is subtractive, and white is achieved by the color of the medium, shading down from there to black, which is enhanced by the "K", or black (much blacker than just combining C-M-Y).

    As for it being an inkjet print, it's probably likely that it's a giclée print - it's not just a Lexmark sitting on a desktop - now you're talking about pigments, rather than dyes, and archival paper. Maybe it's not worth $12k to you or to most people, but it's the art that's being purchased, not just the manufacture; if this is an authenticated limited edition, why should it be worth any less just because it's a print and not a lithograph, and just because it started as a 3D digital image rather than a photo or a painting? I'm not defending the artist, nor the gallery, but just trying to ask the relevant questions.

    As for the artist, I have to say I like his style - clearly, he's not just firing off Poser or D|S shots and then printing them for scads of cash ;). If you didn't know that it was originally a 3D render, I don't see anything, at least in the available images, to suggest it's anything other than a skilled painter (much more skilled than myself, clearly, esp. at 3D rendering :)).

    At least he's not selling JPEGs of his art ;). Let's be honest - if 3D art is your chosen medium, and you're trying to produce images rather than sculpture, what other options do you have other than printing? You certainly wouldn't render it and then paint the image - that would kind of take the point out of your medium - your 3D work would be a 'sketch,' not your vision realized. As Poser/D|S artists, we can't afford to dismiss others 'higher up the food chain' as being 'not real artists' just because they do what we do, on a more advanced level, and then command 'real art' prices on prints of their work, where most of us are content to post our work digitally in online galleries. Our works are unlimited - anyone can download them, copy them, and we have no control over their distribution or their use, at least not enough to control their worth. Sad as it is to hear, only by printing our work - and never offering it solely in its highest-resolution digital format - can we ever really lay any claim to the ultimate value of it; 20 copies of an artistic image, and no more ever, makes it worth a lot more money than 20 million, regardless of how it's printed.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited November 2012

    double post

    Post edited by Fauvist on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Miss B said:
    i personally wouldn't consider Picasso art, but everyone else begs to differ :)
    I think Picasso's art, but I myself prefer others like Monet.

    There were many many inkjet prints at the art fair - all costing thousands of dollars.


    It was printed on an inkjet???? Geeze, you'd think they would at least be printed on a commerical laser printer.

    I just don't see that price tag for that render. That's not to say I don't like it, it's just not worth it to me. Beauty (be it art or otherwise) is indeed in the eyes of the beholder.

    The label on the wall next to the arwork said it was an Ultrachrome print - which is a high-end, high quality “giclee” inkjet print. The print was flawless, and very beautiful. I thought it was a painting until I read the label. Then I recognized the artists name. I talked to the art dealer who confirmed it was an inkjet print on archival fine-art paper. Hand signed and numbered by the artist.

    Most of the photographs on sale at the art show were also printed using inkjet. They were even labeled simply as “inkjet print”. Some of those were between $40,000 and $60,000. I didn’t recognize any of the artists names.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Hey, anyone who believes in themselves so much that they can convince an art dealer or anyone else to sell a Poser/DS render gets my vote. My vote mind you, not my money. I don't have $12K!

    I think most people here are doing exactly what they always complain themselves about. You're not excepting 3D renders as 'art' and therefore it's ridiculousness for someone to charge heaps of money for a print because we know better than anyone else that what we do is just fooling around, it's not art. Right? Well, that's what your responses says! Shame on you for believing that nonsense. This guy should be given a medal for believing with his whole heart that he is indeed making art.

    He obviously takes himself and his work serious and that is half the battle won right there. Familiarity breads contempt as they say and this topic is proof of that. Because we know how it's done and understand the 'magic', all we end up seeing is 'Blegh, I can do that too'. Art is not about medium, technique or knowledge. It's about the magic. And when you can get others to see the magic they will want to own it for themselves. They don't have poser or DS and they couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer. All they see is a pretty image that connects with them well enough to make them open their wallets.

    Stop looking at material rooms, sss settings, morph dials and poses and start seeing images. Life is much more fun that way. ;)

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer. All they see is a pretty image that connects with them well enough to make them open their wallets

    You're wrong. They do care if it was painted by Picasso. They care very much. High end art is nothing but a status symbol. The name signed on the canvas is the most important thing about the artwork.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,357
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer. All they see is a pretty image that connects with them well enough to make them open their wallets

    You're wrong. They do care if it was painted by Picasso. They care very much. High end art is nothing but a status symbol. The name signed on the canvas is the most important thing about the artwork.

    Kind of like designer clothing...

  • MADMANMIKEMADMANMIKE Posts: 379
    edited December 1969

    Some had Stars upon thars...

  • IceScribeIceScribe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Many years ago an art gallery in, of course, a prestigous area, was running a show which included a "work of art" by a friend. You know, I've forgotten what they actually entered, some tomfoolery. Now, another artist's "work" was on display. It was a set of those oldtimey 1940s type suitcases packed with various bricks of cheese. Gets pretty warm in the summer...the "art piece" began to reek and the heath department came in and shut it down.

    I think my question was, was this "art" or more likely, "theater"? Of course, the photogs who snapped the artwork's existence I supposed made their art. Should someone pay a gazillion dollars? What does an owner do, replenish the cheese by contract with artist or gallery?

    But, does agreement among several beholders make a piece of art more worthy than other? I guess that is the job of gallery and show judges. I was once told my art would never hang in a museum. It's become a kind of koan for me. Maybe not, but should it? LOL! If I were into promoting my art, as another poster suggested, that is a different game: Schmoozing. Uh, after years in retail...no thanks. So when people say to me, "you can make money with that", I just ask them how much, and hold out my hand, and the matter is settled with a laugh. Gosh, and I know some people who can draw so well, but lack, well, that inspiration that makes a person gasp, and say, I want that!

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited December 1969

    Well... I can't help but wonder....

    Has he actually sold any?

    lol :)

  • CherokeeCherokee Posts: 265
    edited January 2013

    Anyone check him out on the net to find out more about him?

    Here's an interview... http://arrestedmotion.com/2011/10/interview-ray-caesar-a-dangerous-inclination-corey-helford/

    Post edited by Cherokee on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,521
    edited January 2013

    Hey, anyone who believes in themselves so much that they can convince an art dealer or anyone else to sell a Poser/DS render gets my vote. My vote mind you, not my money. I don't have $12K!

    I think most people here are doing exactly what they always complain themselves about. You're not excepting 3D renders as 'art' and therefore it's ridiculousness for someone to charge heaps of money for a print because we know better than anyone else that what we do is just fooling around, it's not art. Right? Well, that's what your responses says! Shame on you for believing that nonsense. This guy should be given a medal for believing with his whole heart that he is indeed making art.

    He obviously takes himself and his work serious and that is half the battle won right there. Familiarity breads contempt as they say and this topic is proof of that. Because we know how it's done and understand the 'magic', all we end up seeing is 'Blegh, I can do that too'. Art is not about medium, technique or knowledge. It's about the magic. And when you can get others to see the magic they will want to own it for themselves. They don't have poser or DS and they couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer.

    This is really well said. I think too many of us are beginning to believe what we hear in CG forums that what we do isn't art. Yes it is art!

    What kind of quality of art depends on the skill level and artistic ability of the person creating it.

    It's nice to see this type of work being accepted in Art Galleries. It has always taken time when new art forms arrive for them to be accepted as fine art. The Early Impressionists were told to go away that their paint daubs weren't art. Photographers were originally told the same both are now accepted. CG will eventually also earn it's place it's just going to take time...

    edited to add just followed the link to the interview...he apparently works in Maya and creates from scratch. This is likely to be accepted quicker and earlier than using premade figures but that will also change with time...just my two cents.

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • MistyMistMistyMist Posts: 15,164
    edited December 1969

    i could only dream of having 12k to spend on an art collection, or first edition.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:

    edited to add just followed the link to the interview...he apparently works in Maya and creates from scratch. This is likely to be accepted quicker and earlier than using premade figures but that will also change with time...just my two cents.

    The two times I saw this artist's prints at art shows I read the label on the wall, and talked to the art dealers about them. Neither the labels nor the dealers said anything about Maya or about original or premade figures. I doubt anyone shopping for art at these international art fairs have any idea about what Maya is.

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 983
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Hey, anyone who believes in themselves so much that they can convince an art dealer or anyone else to sell a Poser/DS render gets my vote. My vote mind you, not my money. I don't have $12K!

    I think most people here are doing exactly what they always complain themselves about. You're not excepting 3D renders as 'art' and therefore it's ridiculousness for someone to charge heaps of money for a print because we know better than anyone else that what we do is just fooling around, it's not art. Right? Well, that's what your responses says! Shame on you for believing that nonsense. This guy should be given a medal for believing with his whole heart that he is indeed making art.

    He obviously takes himself and his work serious and that is half the battle won right there. Familiarity breads contempt as they say and this topic is proof of that. Because we know how it's done and understand the 'magic', all we end up seeing is 'Blegh, I can do that too'. Art is not about medium, technique or knowledge. It's about the magic. And when you can get others to see the magic they will want to own it for themselves. They don't have poser or DS and they couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer.

    This is really well said. I think too many of us are beginning to believe what we hear in CG forums that what we do isn't art. Yes it is art!

    What kind of quality of art depends on the skill level and artistic ability of the person creating it.

    It's nice to see this type of work being accepted in Art Galleries. It has always taken time when new art forms arrive for them to be accepted as fine art. The Early Impressionists were told to go away that their paint daubs weren't art. Photographers were originally told the same both are now accepted. CG will eventually also earn it's place it's just going to take time...

    edited to add just followed the link to the interview...he apparently works in Maya and creates from scratch. This is likely to be accepted quicker and earlier than using premade figures but that will also change with time...just my two cents.

    I think too many of us have undervalued our own worth as artists, so it chafes us to see someone in the same basic field being valued so highly. This should be an inspiration to us, not something to belittle.

  • JohnDelaquioxJohnDelaquiox Posts: 1,063
    edited December 1969

    You know what they say art is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,521
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Pendraia said:

    edited to add just followed the link to the interview...he apparently works in Maya and creates from scratch. This is likely to be accepted quicker and earlier than using premade figures but that will also change with time...just my two cents.

    The two times I saw this artist's prints at art shows I read the label on the wall, and talked to the art dealers about them. Neither the labels nor the dealers said anything about Maya or about original or premade figures. I doubt anyone shopping for art at these international art fairs have any idea about what Maya is.

    Probably not...it's not the general buyer who cares about that but other artists. The average art buyer will be buying either for investment or it appeals to them. My sister buys stuff for $3-5000 but she goes of what she likes and does it fit in her vision for her house. I've no doubt that she would pay $12000if she had it.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,521
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Hey, anyone who believes in themselves so much that they can convince an art dealer or anyone else to sell a Poser/DS render gets my vote. My vote mind you, not my money. I don't have $12K!

    I think most people here are doing exactly what they always complain themselves about. You're not excepting 3D renders as 'art' and therefore it's ridiculousness for someone to charge heaps of money for a print because we know better than anyone else that what we do is just fooling around, it's not art. Right? Well, that's what your responses says! Shame on you for believing that nonsense. This guy should be given a medal for believing with his whole heart that he is indeed making art.

    He obviously takes himself and his work serious and that is half the battle won right there. Familiarity breads contempt as they say and this topic is proof of that. Because we know how it's done and understand the 'magic', all we end up seeing is 'Blegh, I can do that too'. Art is not about medium, technique or knowledge. It's about the magic. And when you can get others to see the magic they will want to own it for themselves. They don't have poser or DS and they couldn't care less if it was painted by Picasso or printed on an 'inkjet' printer.

    This is really well said. I think too many of us are beginning to believe what we hear in CG forums that what we do isn't art. Yes it is art!

    What kind of quality of art depends on the skill level and artistic ability of the person creating it.

    It's nice to see this type of work being accepted in Art Galleries. It has always taken time when new art forms arrive for them to be accepted as fine art. The Early Impressionists were told to go away that their paint daubs weren't art. Photographers were originally told the same both are now accepted. CG will eventually also earn it's place it's just going to take time...

    edited to add just followed the link to the interview...he apparently works in Maya and creates from scratch. This is likely to be accepted quicker and earlier than using premade figures but that will also change with time...just my two cents.

    I think too many of us have undervalued our own worth as artists, so it chafes us to see someone in the same basic field being valued so highly. This should be an inspiration to us, not something to belittle.

    I agree to a point, we do tend to undervalue the value of our own work.

    I don't think it's about belittling so much as unable to believe that someone spends that much on something that they are going to stick on the wall. When money is tight it's hard to believe that there are people out there that $12000 would mean so little to that they would spend it on a picture. I must admit though that I have spent $3000 on a hand carved table with dragons on the pedestal base a few years ago. That's the most I have ever spent on art though...

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    I agree to a point, we do tend to undervalue the value of our own work.

    I don't think it's about belittling so much as unable to believe that someone spends that much on something that they are going to stick on the wall. When money is tight it's hard to believe that there are people out there that $12000 would mean so little to that they would spend it on a picture. I must admit though that I have spent $3000 on a hand carved table with dragons on the pedestal base a few years ago. That's the most I have ever spent on art though...

    Yeah, well - a hand carved table is an ordeal of a magnitude greater than using the computer to render. I would rather spend money on tangible carved stuff than on a picture. An example (bought in Egypt, and it glows in the dark too!!)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/norse_graphics/4303654641/in/set-72157623158065505

    Something I really wanted.

    4303654641_74a929a399_z.jpg
    428 x 640 - 44K
  • DennyLDennyL Posts: 190
    edited January 2013

    Considering how much 3D content we accumulate, the amount of money we spend on it really adds up. Especially, if the reason we have to buy a more powerful computer is so we can use a newer version of a 3D software. And if we're just hobbyists, people outside of the 3D community probably thinks we're the ones that are crazy.

    On a more personal note, I've got comic books stacked up in odd places because I ran out of storage space. The average price of a comic book is now about $3.50. Doesn't seem like much, but it adds up to about $150 worth per month for me. Over the past 15 years, I've spent about $27,000 on comic books. :ahhh:

    Post edited by DennyL on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Ray Caesar makes renders that look like art.
    http://www.raycaesar.com/

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 2,365
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Ray Caesar makes renders that look like art.
    http://www.raycaesar.com/

    Had a look. The girl in the phone booth "NightCall" caught my eye. It's an impressive image.

  • skutsskuts Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    When they asked the guy why he was selling apples for $10,000.00 each he replied, "I only have to sell one."

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