Can purchased content be resold?

natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
edited November 2012 in The Commons

Over the last 10 years I have purchased software and content for thousands of dollars both here at DAZ and at other stores. Now I have completely lost interest in rendering, and was wondering if I am allowed to sell all this stuff, for example on Ebay. Or easier still, can I simply sell my store accounts complete with saved downloads?

Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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Comments

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    You would have to contact DAZ regarding the transfer of licenses for the software. Last time I asked about a transfer of license was back in the days of Curious Labs and they made it very plain that my bosses could transfer aka give me the license for P4 but they could not sell it to me.

    As for content, no, I don't think so. I think that falls under the heading of redistribution and perhaps even copyright infringement. Most EULA's specify that you are purchasing the right to use the product. You don't actually own the product.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    No. DAZ and other stores do not allow the resell of content or program liceneces

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    If you don't have any interest at the moment, why not just give yourself some time off?

    I've never heard of anyone selling their account.

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for your replies!
    Just too bad, all that money wasted. With an "analog" hobby, I could at least have made some of it back :)

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,218
    edited November 2012

    Over the last 10 years I have purchased software and content for thousands of dollars both here at DAZ and at other stores. Now I have completely lost interest in rendering, and was wondering if I am allowed to sell all this stuff, for example on Ebay. Or easier still, can I simply sell my store accounts complete with saved downloads?

    In Europe it has recently become legal to resell digital content regardless what the EULA says, so if you're located there it shouldn't be a problem.

    Post edited by Taozen on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Over the last 10 years I have purchased software and content for thousands of dollars both here at DAZ and at other stores. Now I have completely lost interest in rendering, and was wondering if I am allowed to sell all this stuff, for example on Ebay. Or easier still, can I simply sell my store accounts complete with saved downloads?

    In Europe it has recently become legal to resell digital content regardless what the EULA says, so if you're located there it shouldn't be a problem.


    That is only true for a software licence. 3D content is not a computer program, it is a user file. The law in Europe refers only to computer software.

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I actually do live in Europe. That's interesting! Does anyone have a link?

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited November 2012

    Mattymanx said:
    Taozen said:
    Over the last 10 years I have purchased software and content for thousands of dollars both here at DAZ and at other stores. Now I have completely lost interest in rendering, and was wondering if I am allowed to sell all this stuff, for example on Ebay. Or easier still, can I simply sell my store accounts complete with saved downloads?

    In Europe it has recently become legal to resell digital content regardless what the EULA says, so if you're located there it shouldn't be a problem.


    That is only true for a software licence. 3D content is not a computer program, it is a user file. The law in Europe refers only to computer software.

    no no, it's for every digital file.
    you can resell everything here if you have proof of owner ship and bills....
    it's great of use :)
    if you would stop your hobby... for something else.
    i don't think ebay is the right place to sell this.

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited November 2012

    Mattymanx said:
    3D content is not a computer program

    Take a look inside any Poser or Studio format file, that's clearly a computer programme. Poser and Studio are simply the interpreter through which they execute.

    Post edited by DWG on
  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    I actually do live in Europe. That's interesting! Does anyone have a link?

    It's a ruling of the European Court: http://www.dw.de/oracle-loses-court-fight-over-software-resale-rules/a-16069323

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,946
    edited November 2012

    Which means that we are likely to see increasing pressure to switch to subscription-based licenses. Definitely a Pyrrhic victory, assuming it holds up.

    It may well require another case to establish whether the judgement applies to content as to applications but in the meantime, the DAZ position remains that content cannot be resold.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    pressure to switch to subscription-based licenses.

    do you mean, monthly based subscribtion licenses to use 3d content?

    no thx
    that means the end for me.

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,043
    edited December 1969

    UsedSoft's business model hinges completely on reselling used packages or legally obtained license keys for them.
    This whole thing hangs on the part in the quote I've highlighted, this ruling only counts for software with a license key, AKA serial number, it doesn't count for software your "leasing" from a company. So while you could resell DS and any plugins you might have bought, it stops you from selling any content you've bought as without a license key you don't actually own it, DAZ/Rendo etc and the vender's are the owners, you just have an indefinite lease allowing you to use it.

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited December 1969

    Bejaymac said:
    UsedSoft's business model hinges completely on reselling used packages or legally obtained license keys for them.
    This whole thing hangs on the part in the quote I've highlighted, this ruling only counts for software with a license key, AKA serial number, it doesn't count for software your "leasing" from a company. So while you could resell DS and any plugins you might have bought, it stops you from selling any content you've bought as without a license key you don't actually own it, DAZ/Rendo etc and the vender's are the owners, you just have an indefinite lease allowing you to use it.

    The whole point of the EC judgement is you can sell the lease, license keys are just another form of lease/contract.

  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 321
    edited December 1969

    According to UK solicitors Goodwin Proctor:
    "For Directive 2009/24 to apply, the first sale must occur within the European Union and the exhaustion right only applies within the European Union" (my emphasis). I don't think a purchase from DAZ counts as a sale occurring within the EU (for customers from the EU it is an import—we do not pay VAT on it, for one thing).

    This ruling does specifically apply to computer programs. I think it's debatable as to whether the 3D assets such as those sold by DAZ are computer programs and I think this is something a court will have to decide, so I would not be attempting to sell 3D content (if, say, I had bought it in the EU) just yet.

    Another UK law firm, Charles Russell, gives the opinion that "[t]he principles involved may well extend to other products which can be sold digitally, such as films, music and books" (my emphasis) so I think we will be looking at more court cases before the legality of re-selling downloaded content other than computer programs is established.

  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 321
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    Bejaymac said:
    UsedSoft's business model hinges completely on reselling used packages or legally obtained license keys for them.
    This whole thing hangs on the part in the quote I've highlighted, this ruling only counts for software with a license key, AKA serial number, it doesn't count for software your "leasing" from a company. So while you could resell DS and any plugins you might have bought, it stops you from selling any content you've bought as without a license key you don't actually own it, DAZ/Rendo etc and the vender's are the owners, you just have an indefinite lease allowing you to use it.

    The whole point of the EC judgement is you can sell the lease, license keys are just another form of lease/contract.


    I agree with DWG. We do not lease 3D models (as an example) from DAZ. It's clearly a sale (of a licence). As Charles Russell say, the ruling applies "where that software is made available to a customer for an unlimited period for a single up front licensee fee".

    Ways to avoid such a "sale" would be to "make licences time limited or only available in return for regular smaller payments" or by "making software available as a cloud service (i.e. not a licence)".

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,673
    edited December 1969

    Poser 7 when I bought it had a license like a book, you can pass it on to another but it can only installed on one computer at any given time.
    Daz studio and other Daz software allows multiple installs whithin the same household.
    for me the content is all on the one external drive with zips and installers scattered throughout various dongles and drives and if I wish to use my laptop instead of my desktop on VERY rare occasions, I simply use that drive.
    Obviously I CAN pass my copy of Poser 7 to another if I completely unistall it according to the license but content is certainly a very grey area and if DS4 ceases to be free to buy whether or not one can sell the program is questionable under the EULA.

    Some of my content came on magazine discs, I have wondered if I pass those discs to another and cease to use that content which does not appear in my order history if it is legal, indeed I actually rebought some of it when on sale and in the case of some figures, free in the hope that if my brother ever showed an interest in 3D, he could have those discs and an included copy of DS3 with its own serial, sofar though a moot point as not in the least interested!

    Also with the book "figures, Characters and Avatars, have wondered if I unistall and cease to use the content and programs on the disc, it can be passed on, again sofar not likely but I did too grab a bit of the content on that seperately on sale (and I mean very cheap in a prev platinium sale, namely V4 &M4; complete) mostly so I could have it in my order history but in theory enabling me to pass the book to my brother if I uninstall any other content from it, ie the pad and other stuff.

    again so far a moot point %-P

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    I actually do live in Europe. That's interesting! Does anyone have a link?

    It's a ruling of the European Court: http://www.dw.de/oracle-loses-court-fight-over-software-resale-rules/a-16069323

    Thanks for the link! I will research this some more.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    The ruling may hold true for software purchased and sold within the EU but neither DAZ nor SMS are based in the EU.

    Where the claim that it can be sold in the EU fails is the fact that the original purchase is made in the US.

    As for DAZ content, just because it has an installer doesn't make it software. It is not an independent program. It cannot do anything without either DS or Poser.

    As far as selling software and content, in order to make it marketable, the seller would have to undercut the original owners.

    Not to mention, how would anyone know if someone selling DAZ content sell it once or a dozen times?

    Where is this any different from the torrent and other sites that offer content?

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    The ruling may hold true for software purchased and sold within the EU but neither DAZ nor SMS are based in the EU.

    Where the claim that it can be sold in the EU fails is the fact that the original purchase is made in the US.

    As for DAZ content, just because it has an installer doesn't make it software. It is not an independent program. It cannot do anything without either DS or Poser.

    As far as selling software and content, in order to make it marketable, the seller would have to undercut the original owners.

    Not to mention, how would anyone know if someone selling DAZ content sell it once or a dozen times?

    Where is this any different from the torrent and other sites that offer content?

    How can anyone know if you exceed the speed limit or dodge your taxes? It's illegal, and so is selling the same software license twice, or not uninstalling sold content from your own computer. Read the link posted earlier.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,218
    edited December 1969

    According to UK solicitors Goodwin Proctor:
    "For Directive 2009/24 to apply, the first sale must occur within the European Union and the exhaustion right only applies within the European Union" (my emphasis). I don't think a purchase from DAZ counts as a sale occurring within the EU (for customers from the EU it is an import—we do not pay VAT on it, for one thing).

    But Oracle, whose software the trial was about, is a US company? I suppose that means that it's about where the software is bought or downloaded (European Oracle reseller or division presumably), and not who produces it.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited November 2012

    Well.... regardless of what laws are changed in various places....everyone who purchases content here makes an agreement to not redistribute... that should be enough, imho.

    Post edited by JasmineSkunk on
  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 271
    edited December 1969

    regardless of what laws are changed in various places….everyone who purchases content here makes an agreement to not redistribute

    The point is that the opposite is true.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited November 2012

    ruekaka said:
    regardless of what laws are changed in various places….everyone who purchases content here makes an agreement to not redistribute

    The point is that the opposite is true.

    How is the opposite true?

    Truth = everyone agrees to not redistribute. (upon installation of any product from DAZ 3D, one is required to check a box agreeing to the TOU)

    The opposite of that would be:

    1. no one agrees to not redistribute

    ...or...

    2. everyone agrees to redistribute

    Neither of which are true.

    Post edited by JasmineSkunk on
  • mrsparkymrsparky Posts: 168
    edited December 1969

    "US court to rule on ReDigi's MP3 digital music resales"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842851

    To be honest as a seller I don't see it would make much difference to me. I trust my customers wouldn't be dishonest and if they wanted to assign their rights to someone else I'd happily allow that.

    Though as a consumer I'm be more concerned over the point Richard makes. Switches to the subscription model. I don't like that.
    Being forced to buy every month or getting content thats no use to me.

  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 271
    edited December 1969

    How is the opposite true? Truth = everyone agrees to not redistribute

    Sorry, what I meant was that you can agree to an EULA, but if an item of the EULA is against the law in your country you must not follow it (at least if you are a private person, not a company).

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 992
    edited December 1969

    I think it's unethical to "sell" your purchased digital content because it's far too easy to sell it to 2 people, or ten, or a thousand. All it would take is a few a-holes doing such a thing to force content creators to lock their files down so that it was either too complicated or too expensive for most of us to continue.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 2,674
    edited December 1969

    ruekaka said:
    How is the opposite true? Truth = everyone agrees to not redistribute

    Sorry, what I meant was that you can agree to an EULA, but if an item of the EULA is against the law in your country you must not follow it (at least if you are a private person, not a company).

    The EULA is a contract between you and the company you purchase from.
    If you violate the contract then you are liable.
    It is that simple.

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    I think it's unethical to "sell" your purchased digital content because it's far too easy to sell it to 2 people, or ten, or a thousand. All it would take is a few a-holes doing such a thing to force content creators to lock their files down so that it was either too complicated or too expensive for most of us to continue.

    This is where it being illegal to do so. If I wanted to I could sell what I have purchased and no one would be any the wiser, but it would be illegal, so I am not going to do that.

    If I had the right to sell the items one time and then was required to delete the items, then that is what I would do.

    The point I am making is there are people who are going to sell things illegally anyway, so what difference does it make.

  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 271
    edited December 1969

    If you violate the contract then you are liable. It is that simple.

    If that would be true no one would need to add the salvatorian clause to a contract.

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