Can we turn M5 in to a centaur with Geo Grafting ?

RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
edited November 2012 in The Commons

Can we turn M5 in to a centaur with Geo Grafting ?


Can we use M5 leg rigs for the horse front legs ?
Can we add weight map rigs to the rear of the horse ?

Will M5 weight map rigs stay ?

Will M5 morphs stay ?

Guess what I am asking is what would happen if we tryed to make a M5 centaur ?
Can it be done ?

Thanks

Post edited by RorrKonn on
«1

Comments

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited December 1969

    yes......

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,672
    edited December 1969

    Except if you want to redistribute such a beast, you will need to run it by DAZ...still not a very clear, well defined process for this and last I heard they were still going on a case by case basis.

    For personal use...yeah, no problem (well, other than the complexity of getting all the weight mapping to mesh and be convincing).

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited November 2012

    The skeleton part of the horse is where you really have to sit down and nut it out try and have as much similarity to genesis as you can and start with the genesis figure as a base then work the M5 morph into that. as the horse scale will have to match.

    Post edited by Midnight_stories on
  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 2,140
    edited December 1969

    Interesting that ovwer in the members forums there is a comment (in the Kids5 thread) about a number of things in the readmes of impending unreleased products which mentions a mysterious MilHorse 2. The fabled unflatable pony, perhaps?

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Interesting that ovwer in the members forums there is a comment (in the Kids5 thread) about a number of things in the readmes of impending unreleased products which mentions a mysterious MilHorse 2. The fabled unflatable pony, perhaps?

    Hmmm might have a look to see what's going on ?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,844
    edited December 1969

    Don't forget that for GeoGrafting to work the parts have to line up in their zero-pose, so the horse part of a GeoGraft centaur would need to be largely under the floor. The hierarchy would also be odd as the horse figure would be a child of Genesis. It wouldn't work on a separate horse figure as, as I recall, only the parent figure gets parts hidden - and of course a horse wouldn't be modelled to match the Genesis vertex positions.

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I made a pose file to put Genesis into the right position to use Hemi426's centaur package for the MilHorse.

    Hemi's thread on the new forums (which includes my freebie pose/transmap) http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/6465/

  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 321
    edited December 1969

    Don't forget that for GeoGrafting to work the parts have to line up in their zero-pose, so the horse part of a GeoGraft centaur would need to be largely under the floor. The hierarchy would also be odd as the horse figure would be a child of Genesis. It wouldn't work on a separate horse figure as, as I recall, only the parent figure gets parts hidden - and of course a horse wouldn't be modelled to match the Genesis vertex positions.

    Yes, on the last point, you would have to reduce the poly-count on the horse's neck to match a suitable ring of polys around the Genesis waist in order to achieve a graft. This means it could not be done with a morph of the horse, and therefore, I presume, the horse would have to be re-rigged, not to mention re-mapped, if I am not mistaken. Then of course you have the texturing issue.

    Hemi426 does it the old-fashioned way, and, I think, with excellent results. As a professional product I should think a standalone figure would still be the way to go (as has already been done, of course), although I seem to recall that KempSparky was experimenting with a Geo-Grafted centaur, but he modelled the horse body himself (ran into problems, I think, which was a shame because it was looking great).

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The problem with a stand alone figure has and will always be support. The hybrids, whether Geografted or otherwise keep the support of their donor figures and that makes them much more attractive IMO.

  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 321
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    The problem with a stand alone figure has and will always be support. The hybrids, whether Geografted or otherwise keep the support of their donor figures and that makes them much more attractive IMO.

    Yes, that's true, especially as the human element is usually the substantive part in this kind of figure. I haven't been tempted by a standalone centaur because I didn't like the human section and this cannot easily be varied (unlike a figure based on Genesis). I hope someone overcomes the hurdles of creating a Geo-Grafted centaur one day (as well as the other chimaeras).

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,757
    edited December 1969

    Hmmm might have a look to see what's going on ?

    Just go to documentation wiki, and on front page, pick "recent changes". TADAH.

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    DAZ could make a descent polycount subdividable Genesis 4 legged animal.

    That could morph from horse,dog,bear,cat etc etc.

    That you could geo graft M5 on to the Genesis 4 legged animal like a horse.

    6 legged Wasp & 8 legged Spiders and Scorpions are cool to.

  • MiloMilo Posts: 317
    edited December 1969

    I am sure it has been discussed, but I can't seem to locate. Is there a set of tutorials, how to, discussion on making your own Genesis Figure?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,844
    edited December 1969

    Do you mean a modified genesis, or a non-Genesis TriAx figure? For the latter, have a look at Blondie's tutorial in the store.

  • MiloMilo Posts: 317
    edited November 2012

    Do you mean a modified genesis, or a non-Genesis TriAx figure? For the latter, have a look at Blondie's tutorial in the store.

    Modifying Genesis, though if I have to go from scratch I will get Blondie's tutorial (might anyways, as it looks to be some good information).

    I mean Anubus has more mesh its not just a regular morph that moves / adjusts the mesh around. ( I could be wrong about it having extra mesh, if it doesn't then there is a lot of mesh to mod)

    Post edited by Milo on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,844
    edited December 1969

    Anubis is a morph, with changes in the joint centres linked to the morph, and a new UV set - the base mesh is not changed.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,536
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Interesting that ovwer in the members forums there is a comment (in the Kids5 thread) about a number of things in the readmes of impending unreleased products which mentions a mysterious MilHorse 2. The fabled unflatable pony, perhaps?

    Hmmm might have a look to see what's going on ?

    I would be nice if SOMEONE were to make a commercially available Centaur using Genesis... *hint hint* MStories! :P

  • MiloMilo Posts: 317
    edited November 2012

    Anubis is a morph, with changes in the joint centres linked to the morph, and a new UV set - the base mesh is not changed.
    Ahh.. so it has some kind of higher sub-division to allow and then a new UV set so that things don't look.. 'stretched/bunched' then they do some kind of merging of the two for .. the steps between combining different morphs.

    So I will have to learn about the adjusting the joint/rigging tied to it and the UV changes that have to be done as well.

    Post edited by Milo on
  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 936
    edited December 1969

    Okay I've got a similar question as the OP, and I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a "skirt"for lack of a better word,a geografted
    part,attached to Genesis that could be used to parent the milhorse neck to ......or even mertails we had for Gen4 ........or am I completely dellusional .......which is highly probable ....
    I did a screen shot and threw it into GIMP to try and show what I mean ,the red line would be the geograft part the yellow what the neck 1 would parent to ......

    Wireframe_screenshot.jpg
    932 x 936 - 502K
  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    JOdel said:
    Interesting that ovwer in the members forums there is a comment (in the Kids5 thread) about a number of things in the readmes of impending unreleased products which mentions a mysterious MilHorse 2. The fabled unflatable pony, perhaps?

    Hmmm might have a look to see what's going on ?

    I would be nice if SOMEONE were to make a commercially available Centaur using Genesis... *hint hint* MStories! :P


    Could be possible I don't know, it's easier to get rid of the whole pelvis. I got a few monsters in the que at the moment.

    Genesis-centor.jpg
    744 x 858 - 247K
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,536
    edited December 1969

    Nice start. I think there would be enough sales for such a creature esp one that could morph and wear a good amount of the Genesis wardrobe.

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited December 1969

    Yes the geo stuff is not my cup of tea I've only ever played around with tails and horns. Matching the topology of genesis is pretty important to, so have got it as close as I could get, this is done in modo with the SUB-D on to gives you a better idea. Oh well something to do no a Sunday afternoon.

    Genesis-centor2.jpg
    744 x 858 - 261K
    Genesis-centor3.jpg
    744 x 858 - 272K
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,844
    edited December 1969

    carrie58 said:
    Okay I've got a similar question as the OP, and I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a "skirt"for lack of a better word,a geografted
    part,attached to Genesis that could be used to parent the milhorse neck to ......or even mertails we had for Gen4 ........or am I completely dellusional .......which is highly probable ....
    I did a screen shot and threw it into GIMP to try and show what I mean ,the red line would be the geograft part the yellow what the neck 1 would parent to ......

    Yes, I would think that would work. It might even be possible to set the UVs up so it was possible, with a mask, to blend the human texture into the hose texture though getting that set up could be tricky - it would require a LIE preset or scripting in DS, and a Python script in Poser, to make it mix-and-matchable.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,536
    edited December 1969

    Looks pretty darned good to me MStories. You should contact DAZ and if your interested get the go ahead on the project. It's too bad there is no "blending" script to use a horse and human skin together and tell it to blend where the two meet up!

  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 936
    edited November 2012

    carrie58 said:
    Okay I've got a similar question as the OP, and I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a "skirt"for lack of a better word,a geografted
    part,attached to Genesis that could be used to parent the milhorse neck to ......or even mertails we had for Gen4 ........or am I completely dellusional .......which is highly probable ....
    I did a screen shot and threw it into GIMP to try and show what I mean ,the red line would be the geograft part the yellow what the neck 1 would parent to ......

    Yes, I would think that would work. It might even be possible to set the UVs up so it was possible, with a mask, to blend the human texture into the hose texture though getting that set up could be tricky - it would require a LIE preset or scripting in DS, and a Python script in Poser, to make it mix-and-matchable.

    Yeah but getting someone with the skilz who would be willing to try/make it is the problem , cause I haven't got any modeling talents at all ......
    but to me it would be it would be worth purchaseing ,even if a Genesis centaur comes out ,for the varity .And I think it would be easier then trying to make all the wonderful textures the milhorse has fit the Genesis centaur ......but then again they managed to get the Gen4 textures to fit Genesis....... so anything is possible
    So Richard any idea where I would go begging .....or to whom ......

    Post edited by carrie58 on
  • info_7ab70978f3info_7ab70978f3 Posts: 78
    edited December 1969

    I have no faith in a DAZ centaur. Didn't Will Dupre state he was making an M3 Centaur YEARS AGO and did it not ever appear when an insider announces a wip and then folds I call it a concept camp as it freezes out any other developer and leaves nothing

  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 936
    edited November 2012

    carrie58 said:
    Okay I've got a similar question as the OP, and I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a "skirt"for lack of a better word,a geografted
    part,attached to Genesis that could be used to parent the milhorse neck to ......or even mertails we had for Gen4 ........or am I completely dellusional .......which is highly probable ....
    I did a screen shot and threw it into GIMP to try and show what I mean ,the red line would be the geograft part the yellow what the neck 1 would parent to ......

    Yes, I would think that would work. It might even be possible to set the UVs up so it was possible, with a mask, to blend the human texture into the hose texture though getting that set up could be tricky - it would require a LIE preset or scripting in DS, and a Python script in Poser, to make it mix-and-matchable.


    I was also thinking that with the "collar thingy" I was trying to show,that maybe other things like the Gen4 mertails would attach to Genesis as well,I understand(I think) that the lower poly thing in Genesis is good for animation and that the older stuff is higher poly count ,but for those of us that already have them and only do stills it would be good and give the graft more versitility/useablity ........
    Maybe I should try begging RawArt to put his talent to it.......
    and MidnightStories I really like the centaur you are working on too ........I just really waant to be able to use my milhorse textures on'em ......

    Post edited by carrie58 on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,757
    edited November 2012

    Carrie, CauriB released MilHorse UV -> DAZ Horse 2 yesterday plus clone shape for it. So if midnight_stories bases his centaur on DAZ Horse 2, it would work out nicely.

    Also, please keep working on this, midnight_stories. I for one think it would be AWESOME.

    Post edited by Skiriki on
  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,588
    edited December 1969

    Skiriki said:
    Carrie, CauriB released MilHorse UV -> DAZ Horse 2 yesterday plus clone shape for it. So if midnight_stories bases his centaur on DAZ Horse 2, it would work out nicely.

    Also, please keep working on this, midnight_stories. I for one think it would be AWESOME.


    OK I'll give you the drum on this!!!
    For the GeoGraft to work there must be matching topology
    So that means some part of the horse has to have the same set of vertex co-ordinance as genesis.
    there is nowhere on either one that is remotely close, even if I made a morph on genesis to fit the horse
    there's no matching poly loop to do it with.
    The only way around that is a double graft and I don't think that is possible.
    It would be a bridging piece between both models and since two different model can't own the same
    Bone them it's not possible.
    What you see here is another horse model all together so different topology to the new horse and therefore
    a different UV set. The only way around it would be getting Daz's permission to change the topology on the new horse
    to match, and I don't think that will happen.

    centaur2.jpg
    714 x 909 - 212K
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,757
    edited November 2012

    IIRC it is possible for geo-grafted bits to have geo-grafted bits of their own... hmmmm. I'm sure there's some sort of clever solution somewhere...

    Post edited by Skiriki on
Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel