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  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    [#2 seems to be almost right, but it does seem that the database migration procedures from the old system weren’t quite 100%. It may take a while to wade through the two databases and find all of the differences. That leaves #1 and 1A. #1 is like any other e-commerce system… designed to be obtuse and obfuscated. A guaranteed income generator for consulting income and support billing. DAZ thought they had the setup right from the beta server, but something between the two installs turned out to be different. Tracking down the differences is the task, it doesn’t help to have to dodge the rotten eggs and rocks being hurled at them from outside.

    ...this is precisely one of my concerns over the eBay/PayPal buyout.


    With PHPBB there was no profit margin involved. With the eBay, taking control of Magento, that has changed and we the community are paying for it. with a flaky system that is taking way to long to implement and, as mentioned, has still seems to require a lot of coding on the part of Daz's web development team to get working right. So where is all that support Magenta/eBay says that buyers of the Enterprise Edition are supposed to have? If Daz has already paid for it, then they shouldn't be in this predicament.


    Yes, I'm a bit hot about this but I don't want to see this sink Daz. This company and community has become my family, If it fails it would be a big loss to me.


    I personally don't think that Magento was either a good or bad choice. It isn't my place to second guess the decisions...I wasn't party to the deliberations when the decision was made. No matter what we, as individuals, may think, the people running DAZ are not idiots. Just as the people on my board are not idiots. DAZ chose what they chose for specific reasons, I don't think it was an overnight, spur-of-the-moment decision by a single person.


    Those of us here in the forums can only speculate on what was decided and why. We can also only speculate on what is actually happening. Those of us who have been through similar situations may be able to get closer to the mark; but until/unless we're actually told what is happening we're all speculating.


    Also, keep in mind that Magento is only ONE piece of this puzzle. And if they did, indeed, go with the commercial version and the new owners are uncooperative, there is always the drop-back to the OSS version.


    Kendall

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    DanaTA said:
    T Jaiman said:
    I wish you hadn't got offended, but I understand it.


    He didn't use the word speculation as an insult, but in a stricter sense than the casual usage.


    And no one likes to be disagreed with. (Even scientists, and that involves the most important part of their profession).


    Not so much offended as wary. I can see where this is going. And in these forums speculation is a bad word, trust me.

    And disagreement is fine...but I don't care to be disregarded.


    Dana


    Disregarded? Never. Even when I vehemently disagree with someone, I never disregard them or their opinions.


    Since I consider you a friend, I simply used your post so that I could keep my language more toward the direction I intended. For me, it is easier to work from a "positive" to keep positive, than to work from a "negative" and try to go positive. I needed to lay out a lot of information that may not be well known, and needed to do so in a manner that was as neutral as I could manage.


    There is a lot of information that is available that lends itself to a more clear picture of what is happening, and to a degree, why. Many of the hard decisions that DAZ has made that have upset people here in the forums have perfectly acceptable business reasons for being made. But those reasons do not affect the fact that there are problems with the current implementation and that those problems are affecting the customers. I, personally, have many questions that I would "like" to have answered. However, I will not subject the forums, or the good folks at DAZ, to questions that really cannot/should not be answered in a public forum.


    Kendall

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,779
    edited June 2012

    ...the thing with any product, be it software, a car or whatever you can be promised it is the best for your needs by the company's marketing department. That's how they stay in business. eBay is a business which needs to turn a profit. Magento used to be totally open source until eBay bought them. I've read Mr Kutner's comments and tend to agree with him that the vision is muddled by the need to make a profit. Again having someone as important as he was to to the company leave because he felt the focus was moving in the wrong direction causes me some concern.


    Blender is Open Source. The Blender community offers an incredible amount of support for its users. On the other hand, users of the Magento Community Edition are left out in the cold. This says to me that eBay only cares about making money from the deal and doesn't give a rodent's posterior about those who don't pony up. To me it sounds like what could have been a promising web development tool has been hamstrung by a company that only cares about their bottom line. I've seen this happen before.


    As I already alluded to, if the Enterprise Edition is supposed to be so "robust" and have the "stellar" support as hyped then this update should have occurred on without a hitch.

    For me, it is easier to work from a “positive” to keep positive, than to work from a “negative” and try to go positive.

    ...sometimes all the positive thinking in the world cannot change the fact that just maybe a bad decision was made.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,342
    edited December 1969


    Disregarded? Never. Even when I vehemently disagree with someone, I never disregard them or their opinions.


    Since I consider you a friend...


    Kendall

    Perhaps not you, but others here certainly.


    Dana

  • T JaimanT Jaiman Posts: 540
    edited December 1969

    Just a serious question... is the Magento stellar support one of those "..if you have the money" kind of deals?


    It is always distressing when OSS sells out.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,779
    edited December 1969

    ...in looking at their pricing structure I feel it is. To get the Enterprise Premium Package (which I would think offers unlimited support service) is around 50,000$. Not sure if Daz could pony up such an amount and by the fact they have to do a lot of extra coding on their own it sounds more like they went with a basic multi server plan instead.


    ...hmm that is interesting, their site just went "white screen" when I tired to link to it.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    T Jaiman said:
    Just a serious question... is the Magento stellar support one of those "..if you have the money" kind of deals?


    It is always distressing when OSS sells out.


    I'm going to step into an area where I don't like to go... that being said:


    *IS* there such a thing as stellar support when one is speaking about e-commerce solutions? In my experience, anything having to do with a system as complex and interconnected as an e-commerce layout would be made worse by an outsider without knowledge of the particulars.


    For the record: I've been an OpenSource advocate since before Stallman started the GNU project. Just because something is OSS does not necessarily make it better. Much rides on the team in charge. Many "OSS" projects languished until sponsorship from IBM, Sun, Oracle, or some other corporate entity started funding the core team. Not many would consider Oracle a beacon of OSS virtue, however, they've been good for MySQL, VirtualBox, and arguably OpenOffice/LibreOffice.


    Kendall

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,342
    edited December 1969


    I'm going to step into an area where I don't like to go... that being said:


    *IS* there such a thing as stellar support when one is speaking about e-commerce solutions?

    Hmmm...
    I worked for Key3Media, the last name incarnation (before Chapter 11) of the late, great, COMDEX, the world's largest (at the time) IT trade show producers. At the time of the last name change, there was also a new CEO, who for now shall remain unnamed. He came in acting like he knew our business...which he really didn't. Thus, he began making changes. Our in-house systems were programmed in Microsoft Visual FoxPro. It was extremely fast, and did everything we wanted it to do. Our on-site system was run in MS SQL Server, with DTS solutions bringing the data from the VFP database into SQL Server. It was beautiful, all ran extremely well. But this new CEO decided that VFP was old technology and no longer relevant, even though MS at the time was still producing major version upgrades, and continued to after he was history. What was his choice? Oracle and Oracle Financials. As he forged forward with his decisions, the company began to decline. My department was one of the last to go. Now as lead programmer there, I knew our users. They liked fast. Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast. Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow. But that's OK, he didn't agree. However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was. A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes! OK. Then he decided to replace the SQL Server system with IBM's WebSphere. We had a team of specialists from a highly visible and highly respected consulting firm working on the Oracle and WebSphere implementations. By this time there was little left to the New England offices. I was tasked with writing VFP programs that would extract all of the data from our VFP systems for import into Oracle Financials. My programs took about 25 minutes to extract the data. It was a lot of data, millions of records. Our COMDEX Fall show alone averaged a quarter million attendees. We had many shows all year long, sometimes two or more ran simultaneously in different locations, some of them in other countries. This data then took 4 days to import into Oracle! They, of course, would find things that they didn't specify that they actually needed, so I'd have to modify the code, adding new columns. I couldn't understand why it took 4 days to import what VFP spit out in 25 minutes. But OK.


    I was laid off in December of 2001. The New England offices closed within a few months of that I think. The company went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy trying to make these systems work. I asked a couple years later and was told that they never did get the WebSphere system working correctly (if at all). The company has since come out of Chapter 11, but it is a mere shadow of its former self.


    Stellar results? Not really! Stellar support? I'd say you are correct...not at all stellar. Monumental Fail? Absolutely!


    Dana

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited June 2012

    DanaTA said:
    ...snip...

    Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast. Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow. But that's OK, he didn't agree. However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was. A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes!

    ...snip...

    Dana


    Oracle DB may be many things, but slow isn't normally one of them. Going by your description of things, either the hardware was woefully under-powered for the load (common under previously SQL Server installs) or the person/team who set it up was incompetent -- when I say incompetent, I do not mean "idiots", I mean "Not trained correctly or fully. Not competent."


    On the human side many sites transition to Oracle thinking that the skill set from SQL-Server is equivalent. It isn't. SQL-Server is a toy compared to Oracle, DB2, Informix. It takes significantly more training to correctly operate an "Enterprise DB." Another issue is the hardware -- Oracle is significantly more resource intensive than SQL-Server. You'd be surprised with how many organizations "cheap out" on the hardware, or simply aren't aware of the true needs.


    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,342
    edited December 1969

    DanaTA said:
    ...snip...

    Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast. Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow. But that's OK, he didn't agree. However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was. A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes!

    ...snip...

    Dana


    Oracle DB may be many things, but slow isn't normally one of them. Going by your description of things, either the hardware was woefully under-powered for the load (common under previously SQL Server installs) or the person/team who set it up was incompetent -- when I say incompetent, I do not mean "idiots", I mean "Not trained correctly or fully. Not competent."


    On the human side many sites transition to Oracle thinking that the skill set from SQL-Server is equivalent. It isn't. SQL-Server is a toy compared to Oracle, DB2, Informix. It takes significantly more training to correctly operate an "Enterprise DB." Another issue is the hardware -- Oracle is significantly more resource intensive than SQL-Server. You'd be surprised with how many organizations "cheap out" on the hardware, or simply aren't aware of the true needs.


    Kendall


    I don't know...4 days to import into Oracle? I don't call that speedy. It was only millions of records, not billions! I had routines in VFP that imported data from XML data feeds (millions of records) that took about an hour, and it was a lot of data on hotels and rooms and details. And I used low level file routines to do it, not special XML functions...they were slower than my routines. The Oracle database itself may not have been slow, but running in a browser, and under JAVA, as the Oracle Financials did...in 2001...that was just, as I said, slow + slow. A system is only as fast as its slowest link. Visual FoxPro, on the other hand, had been documented as being faster than DB2 on seeks of large datasets...and VFP wasn't even a server-based database, it was filebased! That's not to say that it wasn't run on a server and available to users over the network, of course, because it was, and even had different permissions set up, and worked as the database back end for a website in the next company I worked for...and ran quickly, I might add.


    But, this is way off topic, so I'll stop now. :P


    Dana

  • CymbidiumCymbidium Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Now that is something new, and also the first time it has been remarked on. It maybe something somewhere in your settings, or browser settings.

    I am sure that if otheres were having this probelm we would have had lots of reports, because people do like using smiles, and have been moaning like mad about the ones suppplied with ths forum software beacuse they want different ones, or more, not that they don't display.

    :coolsmirk:

    Well, I can't see any smileys now in any posts - using Firefox, however they do reappear if I use IE9, so I guess it must be something to do with my browser if no-one else is having the problem. I haven't changed anything in settings recently, but I have cleared the history a few times, to try to solve the site mis-directions.....clearing my browser cache didn't make the smileys come back either.......:( Very strange......I know I haven't updated the browser or changed anything this end. I won't bother the poor help peeps with this, they have more than enough on their plates - guess I can live without smileys for a while. ;)

  • WandWWandW Posts: 1,257
    edited December 1969

    The smileys are showing up fine for me in FF 12.0...

  • Ryuu@AMcCFRyuu@AMcCF Posts: 220
    edited December 1969

    I've only read the first & last page of this thread, so I don't know if problems like this has been addressed already...
    .
    I've lately noticed that when I start up IE and open the window on the DAZ site, sometimes I need to log back in (even though I'm supposed to have cookies enabled for automatic logging in) or sometimes I'm logged in as some random person (evidently the cookies are corrupted).
    .
    I HOPE this isn't going to be a potential security issue with the new store!

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,643
    edited December 1969

    No it isn't a security risk. You can't do anything while logged in as that person. You can't access their account, cart, wishlist, nothing without it making you log in. We have been reassured by daz a few times that all our information is 100% safe.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    No it isn't a security risk. You can't do anything while logged in as that person. You can't access their account, cart, wishlist, nothing without it making you log in. We have been reassured by daz a few times that all our information is 100% safe.

    Except for the information that isn't safe: our real names (next to a wishlist count, too). Not everybody can afford to be outed -- if my bosses found out this was one of my hobbies I would get fired as soon as they could manufacture a legitimate-sounding excuse. I never authorized DAZ to reveal that I'm one of their customers -- bad enough that this happened at all, worse that it's still going on over a week later! >:-(

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,342
    edited December 1969

    How can you be fired for having a hobby? Unless that hobby were child porn or something, I don't understand how that can be allowed. What you do on your own time is your own business.


    Dana

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    DanaTA said:
    Frank0314 said:
    No it isn't a security risk. You can't do anything while logged in as that person. You can't access their account, cart, wishlist, nothing without it making you log in. We have been reassured by daz a few times that all our information is 100% safe.

    Except for the information that isn't safe: our real names (next to a wishlist count, too). Not everybody can afford to be outed -- if my bosses found out this was one of my hobbies I would get fired as soon as they could manufacture a legitimate-sounding excuse. I never authorized DAZ to reveal that I'm one of their customers -- bad enough that this happened at all, worse that it's still going on over a week later! >:-(

    How can you be fired for having a hobby? Unless that hobby were child porn or something, I don't understand how that can be allowed. What you do on your own time is your own business.

    How? With the aforementioned "legitimate-sounding excuse". Why? "...or something..." -- the perception that Poser and DAZStudio are used almost exclusively for making porn is fading, but is still wide-spread enough to be potentially dangerous.


    Very dangerous? Maybe not, but that's not supposed to be DAZ's call, is it? As an unavoidable accident this is barely tolerable, but over a week later we're well past that.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,538
    edited December 1969

    our real names (next to a wishlist count, too). Not everybody can afford to be outed

    To "out" you someone would need to know a bit more than your wish list. Something that was actually pertinent like where your located (so they would know which person with that name it was) and who you work for. Nor would your bosses be sure it was in fact the real you unless they asked you point blank or you have a one of a kind name. Odds are that there are actually dozens of "you" out there on the Internet. There are dozens and dozens of women with my name on Facebook alone for example. And that is only the tip of the me's out there on the Internet much less in the world. There are several withing 60 miles of me here in Georgia. My last name is not all that common and Lauren is fairly far down the list as far as commonness goes.

    For you to be "outed" then who ever has your wishlist and name would need to also know your SN and have read your posts to know you didn't want your employers to know you had an art hobby, your employers name to contact them, and a willingness to take the time to let them know in a way that they would address. The only other ways for you to be "outed" as an artist would be for the employer to have a DAZ account and see the name and be sure it was you, or they would have to be doing nearly constant searches for your name on the Internet in order to end up on the account page with your name on it and be able to prove that the account was yours somehow. So unless you work for the NSA or something I doubt that your bosses are making the effort keep track of you that well. And if you do work for the NSA they already know.

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    Anyone else having issues with their join date? Mine is showing I joined in '04, but I joined in '03.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,398
    edited June 2012

    Faerydae said:
    Anyone else having issues with their join date? Mine is showing I joined in '04, but I joined in '03.

    Your join date on the old forums shows as the same as your join date on this one.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    our real names (next to a wishlist count, too). Not everybody can afford to be outed

    To "out" you someone would need to know a bit more than your wish list. Something that was actually pertinent like where your located (so they would know which person with that name it was) and who you work for. Nor would your bosses be sure it was in fact the real you unless they asked you point blank or you have a one of a kind name. Odds are that there are actually dozens of "you" out there on the Internet. There are dozens and dozens of women with my name on Facebook alone for example. And that is only the tip of the me's out there on the Internet much less in the world. There are several withing 60 miles of me here in Georgia. My last name is not all that common and Lauren is fairly far down the list as far as commonness goes.

    For you to be "outed" then who ever has your wishlist and name would need to also know your SN and have read your posts to know you didn't want your employers to know you had an art hobby, your employers name to contact them, and a willingness to take the time to let them know in a way that they would address. The only other ways for you to be "outed" as an artist would be for the employer to have a DAZ account and see the name and be sure it was you, or they would have to be doing nearly constant searches for your name on the Internet in order to end up on the account page with your name on it and be able to prove that the account was yours somehow. So unless you work for the NSA or something I doubt that your bosses are making the effort keep track of you that well. And if you do work for the NSA they already know.


    There's a better chance of being "outed" by Google Images than by DAZ's site.


    Kendall

  • Alisa Uh-LisaAlisa Uh-Lisa Posts: 1,248
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    So unless you work for the NSA or something I doubt that your bosses are making the effort keep track of you that well. And if you do work for the NSA they already know.

    :gulp: :lol:

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Faerydae said:
    Anyone else having issues with their join date? Mine is showing I joined in '04, but I joined in '03.

    Your join date on the old forums shows as the same as your join date on this one.

    Hmmm...maybe I am crazy then lol. I could have swore it was '03. I did have another account at one time though that was merged with this one a few years ago. I suppose it's possible that's what I am thinking of. Thanks!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,779
    edited December 1969

    [Another issue is the hardware -- Oracle is significantly more resource intensive than SQL-Server. You'd be surprised with how many organizations "cheap out" on the hardware, or simply aren't aware of the true needs.


    Kendall


    ...so that leads me to the next question, how "up to the task" is Daz's hardware with regards to the more "robust" (compared to PHPBB) Magento?


    Studio4 will run on my old duo core 32 bit notebook with an integrated graphics chipset that doesn't support the optimal OGL requirement...


    ...barely.


    It's as slow as molasses in a Siberian winter and really doesn't like dealing with scenes more complex than a toon character in simple setting. Yes it "works", but there's a reason I still have (and work with) both 3Advanced and ver. 2.3 on that machine.

  • GigaBeatGigaBeat Posts: 164
    edited June 2012

    --Deleted--

    Post edited by GigaBeat on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    GigaBeat said:

    I recon the people at Smith Micro/Poser must be rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter.


    Ummm. Not quite. SM has problems of their own, and I doubt seriously that they are even paying attention to DAZ's problems. I had posted info about it a little bit back, but it was removed to keep from blowing the forums up.


    Kendall

  • GigaBeatGigaBeat Posts: 164
    edited December 1969

    GigaBeat said:

    I recon the people at Smith Micro/Poser must be rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter.


    Ummm. Not quite. SM has problems of their own, and I doubt seriously that they are even paying attention to DAZ's problems. I had posted info about it a little bit back, but it was removed to keep from blowing the forums up.


    Kendall

    Yer your right. I guess I over dramatized it a bit too much but I am getting really exasperated with the store issues. And I posted in the wrong forum. Blinded by rage and didn't check the forum header properly first. oopsies

  • OstadanOstadan Posts: 338
    edited December 1969

    The Forum is working adequately for me at present, but I really wish someone would get 'sort by last post' in there soon. The more threads there are in the forums, the harder it becomes to grub through all the pages looking for new postings.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,108
    edited June 2012

    I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, and you might not unless you're familiar with web forum software, but since the start of the new site, if you pay attention to the newest members section at the bottom of the forums, it looks as though the site is suffering from some sort of a registration bot attack, which in the long run could do more harm than good.

    This doesn't really affect us as end users right now, but it might just be one more thing piled on their 'to-do' list.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • ThinMickThinMick Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ostadan said:
    The Forum is working adequately for me at present, but I really wish someone would get 'sort by last post' in there soon. The more threads there are in the forums, the harder it becomes to grub through all the pages looking for new postings.

    My answer to this, thus far, has been to hit the 'View New Posts' link, open everything I want to read in new tabs, then go directly back to the forum home and hit 'Mark All Posts Read'. That way there's minimal missing stuff and maximal not having to pick through stuff. It's not good, but it is a workaround, until they get it fixed.

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