Post Your Renders - #4: A New Hope

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  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Just finished a little project I started over a year ago and got away from. I wanted to test out iPisoft's mocap system (2 Kinects) and this is the result:

    (Funny this thread should be called "A New Hope." It's oddly appropriate.)

    http://youtu.be/rpM_r2W_W2E

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    TUTORIAL!! TUTORIAL!!

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    TUTORIAL!! TUTORIAL!!

    Any particular aspect, or just the whole thing?

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,422
    edited November 2012

    Kodiak3D said:
    Just finished a little project I started over a year ago and got away from. I wanted to test out iPisoft's mocap system (2 Kinects) and this is the result:

    (Funny this thread should be called "A New Hope." It's oddly appropriate.)

    http://youtu.be/rpM_r2W_W2E


    For those who may not be aware (and I'm not talking about the OP or anyone in particular, just providing some general information...), using John Williams' music, for example, as well as a derivative of the Star Wars logo in a video may raise some legal and non-legal concerns.

    You need to be careful that you don't violate any copyright and/or trademark laws. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't advise you. However, it's generally not a good idea to use copyrighted and/or trademarked material in your videos, even if they are not for profit or you think they are educational, or even if you think it's just a well-intentioned tribute to the original artists.

    But aside from the legal aspects, look at it from the artists' perspective. Let's say you produced some music you were very proud of, and you produced it in the context of a certain film, as a way to tell a particular story and add to the visual experience. The intent of the music you produced was to be used only for that one portion of a particular film, because that's the context of how you wanted your music to be heard, and that's how it had the desired impact.

    And then let's say that someone took your music and used it in a cat food commercial.

    You'd probably be real disappointed, and maybe even offended.

    Now, I'm not saying the OP's video is the equivalent of a cat food commercial, just trying to make a point. The music was designed by the composer for a particular purpose, and by copying it and associating it with something else you are possibly diluting the music for anyone who watches the video. Especially those who have never seen the original. Suddenly the music you worked so hard on and put so much of yourself into becomes nothing more than a jingle for a cat food commercial. Get my point? It has nothing to do with the law, but everything to do with respect for the composer and his work.

    Now, even if you were convinced that the video was the artistic equivalent to the original film, what matters is whether the composer would agree and want you to associate his music with your video.

    Whether you have good intentions, which I'm sure we all do, is not the point. We all want to show our respects to the Star Wars folks for their great work. But IMO, the way to do that is to respect their work in a way that they want it to be respected.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    Joemamma, I understand your concerns, but I'm guessing you aren't too familiar with the world of Star Wars fanfilms. George Lucas has expressed his full support of fanfilms using such things and is supportive of it, as long as you aren't trying to make money off it. Lucasfilm even has an annual contest. Disney might change that policy, but I doubt it.

    Also, as for the music, Sony Music Entertainment apparent also allows the use of the music on YouTube, but throws an ad on your video if you do (YouTube said that's why there's an ad on my video).

    Post edited by Kodiak3D on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,422
    edited December 1969

    And that's fine. If John Williams is happy with you using his music with your video, then there's no problem with your particular situation.

    But the point remains. For people here who are contemplating using copyrighted material, they need to understand not only the legal, but also the non-legal aspects. Which is why I raised the issue. You hear a lot of talk about the legal aspects, but nobody considers the "respect" aspect.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    All very true.

    I really admire Lucas for being so supportive of other filmmakers. He's always said he remembers what it was like for him early on and he wants to be helpful to others. It's very generous of him to let others play in his universe and not send his lawyers after them like a pack of starving wolves. He's got enough money and isn't greedy about it.

    Heck, he just sold Lucasfilm for 4.05 billion dollars and he's donating almost all of it to educational charities. What a guy!

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,422
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    I really admire Lucas for being so supportive of other filmmakers

    Yes, great guy.

    But how does John Williams feel about you using his music?

  • OstadanOstadan Posts: 339
    edited December 1969

    It is truly amazing what one individual of relatively modest financial means can accomplish nowadays with these emerging technologies. This is a look at the future, when the means of production are available to everyone, and the only limitation is, as it should be, an artist's talent (and time).

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,422
    edited December 1969

    Ostadan said:
    This is a look at the future, when the means of production are available to everyone, and the only limitation is, as it should be, an artist's talent (and time).

    Actually it has always been that way. Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Picasso, etc., only used oil and canvas and marble, which was available to everyone, and they produced some incredible stuff. It's all relative, I guess.

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 620
    edited December 1969

    I didn't know those guys made movies that depict fantastical things not found in the real world. Live and learn.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 521
    edited December 1969

    While respecting the original intent of a composer's music is a laudable ideal, I fear that it's no longer practiced in today's culture.

    As an example, consider television commercials. It would seem that there is no longer anyone left capable of composing a new product "jingle". Instead, advertisers slap a popular song from the 60s onto their TV spot and call it finished.

    Maybe you fondly remember listening to the song "Woo Hoo" by The Rock-A-Teens in 1959, or perhaps you remember hearing the same song performed in 2003 by the Japanese rock band The 5.6.7.8's in the movie "Kill Bill" during the "Showdown at the House of Blue Leaves" scene.

    But today you'll probably just remember it as the jingle for the "Vonage" commercials.

    Nope, there's no respect.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    I think what Ostadan is saying (and I agree with him) is that it was only a few years ago that the ability to create a video like mine was only available to rich movie production companies and now you can afford to do it at home.

    Personally, I think the future of movie making lies in independent film/animation for this very reason.

    As for John Wiiliams' thoughts on me using his music, I like to think he's happy to see that his music is being used in an artistic way still intended to drive the emotion of the video. I don't feel that I've disrespected him in any way. I use his music out of admiration, not derision. Of course, I don't KNOW his opinion, but as far as I am aware, there's no problem using his music in fanfilms. If I find out differently, I'll change it.

    Post edited by Kodiak3D on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,422
    edited November 2012

    Kodiak3D said:
    I use his music out of admiration, not derision. Of course, I don't KNOW his opinion, but as far as I am aware, there's no problem using his music in fanfilms. If I find out differently, I'll change it.

    Again, the point is that only the artist knows whether he feels offended or not.

    IMO, the correct and respectful way to proceed is to contact him or his agency and ask them. Just do a search for "John Williams contact info" or something like that and send a letter or email. It's the way you or I would choose to be treated, no?

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 313
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    George Lucas has expressed his full support of fanfilms using such things and is supportive of it, as long as you aren't trying to make money off it. Lucasfilm even has an annual contest. Disney might change that policy, but I doubt it.

    Disney is well known for being particularly anal about its trademark usage, even when there is no monetary gain. I recall a nursery school back in the 80's that was forced to remove the Disney characters from murals on its walls.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    I did not think posting my video was going to get this involved. I almost wish I hadnt.

    The community of Star Wars fan film creators is one of admiration and respect. Many have used John Williams' music and as far as I can tell, he is happy to allow his music in fanfilms (many use it, and not just Star Wars). I'm not trying to use the "everybody else does it" defense, but such is the nature of fan films.

    Video was rendered in Carrara. Enjoy it (or don't).

    Post edited by Kodiak3D on
  • de3ande3an Posts: 521
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    I did not think posting my video was going to get this involved. I almost wish I hadnt.

    Video was rendered in Carrara. Enjoy it (or don't).

    Your animation is pretty cool.
    It's just that it opened an off topic line of discussion, not necessarily aimed at you.

    Regarding your video, the only comment I would give is that the action seemed a little too slow.
    I wonder how it would look just speeded up some.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The slowness is due to the motions themselves, not the capture process. Having never done mocap before, we weren't quite as serious with our movements as we should have been. There's also a little anticipation of the shots, but I tried to time them to hide it.

    When we did the capture I was throwing Nerf darts at my friend for him to dodge/block, lol.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    TUTORIAL!! TUTORIAL!!

    Any particular aspect, or just the whole thing?

    I think ANYTHING you'd like to share would be useful... but I am very interested in your mocap workflow into Carrara.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Holly, I'll go more in depth later tonight (I'm at work right now and then have dinner plans with my wife), but I will say I export a BVH from iPisoft, bring that into DAZ Studio, the re-export it as an animated pose. Those are easy to bring into Carrara and then you just clear out unwanted key frames and work from there.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    Holly, I'll go more in depth later tonight (I'm at work right now and then have dinner plans with my wife), but I will say I export a BVH from iPisoft, bring that into DAZ Studio, the re-export it as an animated pose. Those are easy to bring into Carrara and then you just clear out unwanted key frames and work from there.

    That's helpful... I guess I could use POSER for the same use...

    BVH directly into Carrara was problematic?

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I found it to be, but others may know it better. I'm no expert at Carrara. I just found what worked for me. :-)

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    OK, so a bit of a tutorial on what I did:

    1. Motion: the motions were recorded using 1 or 2 Kinects and iPisoft mocap software. The first half (up to where the remote comes out) was done with 1 Kinect on iPisoft 1.0. The rest was done on 2 Kinects on version 2.0 and works much better. I exported BVH files from iPisoft and imported them into DAZ Studio, applied them to M4, then exported them as an animated pose. Then I imported that to my character (also M4) in Carrara and then cleaned up the motion by deleting unwanted keyframes and/or reposing here and there.

    2. Lightsaber: pretty simple really. The hilt is a freebie from Vanishingpoint. I removed the blade on the model and replaced it with a blade I modeled myself (basically a cylinder with a rounded end) and added a mottled blue shader (fractal mixer) and put the same color in the glow channel. Add a little bit of an aura (8 pixels or so) and you're good to go.

    3. Blaster bolts: basically the same thing as the lightsaber blade, just shorter and different color. Used motion paths for the shots, usually on screen for about 0.2 - 0.3 seconds (6-8 frames).

    4. Remote explosion: this took a while. There are three particle emitters: one with lots of small sparks, one with a few bigger chunks (a piece I modeled) and one for smoke. The sparks are just small diamond particles with an orange color and glow. The larger chunks have a slightly brighter yellow color/glow mixed with some black (fractal mixer). The smoke is the basic smoke particle generator that used to come with Carrara that 3DAGE had updated to work with C8, with a few little tweaks including a slight grey glow to make the smoke more visible.

    5. Thrown lightsaber: motion path combined with a spin modifier.

    6. Candles/ball bearings: ball bearings are just spheres with a chrome shader. When the saber hits them, I switch to a double of the shere with an orange/yellow glow shader combined with an explode and dissolve modifier. Add in some particle sparks for fun. The candle flames are regular Carrara fire with an Anything Glows added on each one.

    If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 479
    edited November 2012

    Yeah it's OT, but all this star wars fan film stuff does make me wonder now -- will Disney be as encouraging to fan films as Lucas has been?

    I haven't seen them coming down on Marvel fan films as of yet, so I assume it's still all good.

    Post edited by BC Rice on
  • SLoTH_XVXSLoTH_XVX Posts: 92
    edited November 2012

    I sure do miss visiting the forums.....Life has really been eating up a lot of my 'free' time.

    I have not been as active in the forums as I have in the past but I had a little time recently to complete a 'just-for-fun' piece.

    SteamRoller_DAZForumSized.jpg
    600 x 327 - 143K
    Post edited by SLoTH_XVX on
  • SLoTH_XVXSLoTH_XVX Posts: 92
    edited December 1969

    This is a piece I did for my sister's husband with a club logo they had.....it is some kind of live role playing thing......

    They wanted a Steam Punk Vampire rolling dice......

    SteamRoller_DAZ-Forum-Sized.jpg
    451 x 600 - 163K
  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 479
    edited December 1969

    SLoTH_XVX said:
    I sure do miss visiting the forums.....Life has really been eating up a lot of my 'free' time.

    I have not been as active in the forums as I have in the past but I had a little time recently to complete a 'just-for-fun' piece.

    Like this.

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,436
    edited December 1969

    SLoTH_XVX said:
    This is a piece I did for my sister's husband with a club logo they had.....it is some kind of live role playing thing......

    They wanted a Steam Punk Vampire rolling dice......

    cool :cheese:

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Nice works, SLoth :-) I love the angel.

  • SLoTH_XVXSLoTH_XVX Posts: 92
    edited December 1969

    BC Rice said:
    SLoTH_XVX said:
    I sure do miss visiting the forums.....Life has really been eating up a lot of my 'free' time.

    I have not been as active in the forums as I have in the past but I had a little time recently to complete a 'just-for-fun' piece.

    Like this.

    Thanks BC.

    bigh said:
    This is a piece I did for my sister's husband with a club logo they had.....it is some kind of live role playing thing......

    They wanted a Steam Punk Vampire rolling dice......

    cool :cheese:

    Thanks bigh

    Nice works, SLoth :-) I love the angel.

    Thanks Kodiak


    If I get some time this weekend I might work on some more stuff. I really want to figure out the Genesis figure thing in Carrara, haven't tried him/her/it yet.

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