WINDOWS 8 ?

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,585
    edited December 1969

    California has gorgeous weather today! :coolgrin:

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,319
    edited December 1969

    Thanks everyone. I have searched Microsoft's web site and has found answers to my questions.
    One can upgrade to Windows 8 Pro from Windows XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista or Windows 7.
    It is possible to upgrade from 32-bit version to 64-bit version by buying upgrade on the DVD
    (costs about twice as much as upgrade download), but still it is only 43% of the price of full version.
    Microsoft even says that it is possible to reinstall previous version of Windows if you have installation media to it
    or have the image of the system hard disk made before upgrading to Windows 8.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    Because I'm not going anywhere NEAR it unless I can retain that kind of functionality...

    I'll add that I'm not going anywhere near it anyway. It's all right for someone used to the way things are done on modern phones and tablets, but is that really a good idea for a full OS used in a desktop PC? All I ever see in the adverts and tech show programmes is how easy it is to whizz around a whole lot of blobby icons, just like on a phone screen. So what else does it do? And how much of the functionality is geared towards driving a touchscreen, like on a phone or tablet?

    Nope, I'm giving Win8 a miss, just like I did Vista. Besides, I've only had Win7 for a couple of years now and I have no intention of upgrading — to me it's "WinXP done right" and the new OS is, I'm afraid, little more than "pretty".


    ..heh, still using XP. With WIn7 64 on the new system (though was considering XP Pro64).

    Actually one of the local tech experts mentioned that many users and workplaces are still running on XP (Win7 has been out for what, three years now?).

    One of the things I heard that 8 dispensed with was the old "Start" menu. Now I am old school (I still use the "Windows Classic" shell in XP). who goes back to when we still used Command Line (on mainframes and in DOS). Personally, for most purposes (other then working in CG) I find the using a pointing device, such as a mouse, tablet, or touch pad, to be less "ergonomic", especially when working in a heavily keyboard driven environment (like a word processor or spreadsheet app). Having to frequently remove the hands from the keyboard to use an external pointing device is actually less efficient (at least from my experience) than using hotkeys.

    Always been big fan of hot keys (used to programme my own back in the days).


    From what I have heard, Win8 is tailored more for hand held devices like smart phones and pads than the standard PC (hence the touch based con driven environment). I like a nice clean and well organised desktop, not one cluttered with big gaudy smartphone inspired tiles.

    A few other minuses include:

    --- No more Start Menu, The start Screen is hardly a good replacement for non touch screen PC users as it appears to require a lot of scrolling around to find things. Never liked hidden task/toolbars either.

    --- No more DVD Player (one of the few built in apps I use) You can still get Media Player, but now for an additional cost and it requires Win8 Pro.

    --- The Secure Boot which can cause conflicts with free software like Linux and possibly even Blender (any Blender users know more about this?).

    ---a lot of built in bloatware which I would never use as I don't do social network sites or stream music.


    I'm with you think I'll give this one a pass.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,852
    edited October 2012

    Artini said:
    I've just wonder if it is possible to upgrade from WindowsXP 32-bit to Windows 8 Pro 64-bit,
    by buying the Windows 8 Pro upgrade. Anybody knows?

    I believe the answer is "no". Upgrades possible from Vista or Win7 only.

    Oops, no, wait... still searching... Why isn't this answer blaringly obvious... Back in a few minutes.

    OK, this article says it is.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-pro-costs-40-if-youre-running-xp-vista-858859

    And the Microsoft store says it it IF you have XP upgraded to Service Pack 3 installed. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro?WT.term=+windows++8+upgrade+from+vista&WT;.mc_id=pointitsem_Microsoft+US_google_5+-+Windows+8&WT;.medium=cpc&WT;.campaign=5+-+Windows+8&WT;.content=de68Q6mJ&WT;.srch=1&WT;.source=google&cshift_ck=685d76b6-4c3f-472c-8669-877599d2cf01csde68Q6mJ

    Generally an in-place upgrade is possible only if both the installed version and the upgrade have the same bit-depth.

    Argh... Richard is right. I totally missed the 32 vs 64 bit part of the question. Gettin' old :-( I'll resign from the forum the day I put my underwear on over my trousers. Won't be long now. :-(

    PS: Yeah, I know Madonna did it but she's eccentric and artistic, not simply senile and loony.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 1,319
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    I've just wonder if it is possible to upgrade from WindowsXP 32-bit to Windows 8 Pro 64-bit,
    by buying the Windows 8 Pro upgrade. Anybody knows?

    I believe the answer is "no". Upgrades possible from Vista or Win7 only.

    Oops, no, wait... still searching... Why isn't this answer blaringly obvious... Back in a few minutes.

    OK, this article says it is.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-pro-costs-40-if-youre-running-xp-vista-858859

    And the Microsoft store says it it IF you have XP upgraded to Service Pack 3 installed. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro?WT.term=+windows++8+upgrade+from+vista&WT;.mc_id=pointitsem_Microsoft+US_google_5+-+Windows+8&WT;.medium=cpc&WT;.campaign=5+-+Windows+8&WT;.content=de68Q6mJ&WT;.srch=1&WT;.source=google&cshift_ck=685d76b6-4c3f-472c-8669-877599d2cf01csde68Q6mJ

    Generally an in-place upgrade is possible only if both the installed version and the upgrade have the same bit-depth.

    Argh... Richard is right. I totally missed the 32 vs 64 bit part of the question. Gettin' old :-( I'll resign from the forum the day I put my underwear on over my trousers. Won't be long now. :-(

    PS: Yeah, I know Madonna did it but she's eccentric and artistic, not simply senile and loony.


    Thanks, but I have found on the Microsoft's site, that 32-bit to 64-bit upgrade is possible, if one buy the Windows 8 Pro upgrade on the DVD.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    Artini said:
    I've just wonder if it is possible to upgrade from WindowsXP 32-bit to Windows 8 Pro 64-bit,
    by buying the Windows 8 Pro upgrade. Anybody knows?

    I believe the answer is "no". Upgrades possible from Vista or Win7 only.

    Oops, no, wait... still searching... Why isn't this answer blaringly obvious... Back in a few minutes.

    OK, this article says it is.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-pro-costs-40-if-youre-running-xp-vista-858859

    And the Microsoft store says it it IF you have XP upgraded to Service Pack 3 installed. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro?WT.term=+windows++8+upgrade+from+vista&WT;.mc_id=pointitsem_Microsoft+US_google_5+-+Windows+8&WT;.medium=cpc&WT;.campaign=5+-+Windows+8&WT;.content=de68Q6mJ&WT;.srch=1&WT;.source=google&cshift_ck=685d76b6-4c3f-472c-8669-877599d2cf01csde68Q6mJ

    Generally an in-place upgrade is possible only if both the installed version and the upgrade have the same bit-depth.

    Argh... Richard is right. I totally missed the 32 vs 64 bit part of the question. Gettin' old :-( I'll resign from the forum the day I put my underwear on over my trousers. Won't be long now. :-(

    PS: Yeah, I know Madonna did it but she's eccentric and artistic, not simply senile and loony.


    Thanks, but I have found on the Microsoft's site, that 32-bit to 64-bit upgrade is possible, if one buy the Windows 8 Pro upgrade on the DVD.

    Upgrade, yes - but I thought the original question was about an in-place upgrade (changing the OS without having to reisntall everything - though it looked to me as if that was required for the apps in going from XP in any event)

  • adzanadzan Posts: 209
    edited October 2012

    it's alight i suppose,
    the flat colours and task bar reminds me of a cross between windows 3.1 and windows 95.

    i installed it over the top of my win 7 so I now have 1288 tiles on the start thing, because it dumped everything from my start menu on it, now that's just plain ugly, sigh, can't find a bleeding thing scrolling through them all, no wonder search is so prominent.

    it certainly doesn't maintain all the user preferences when performing an upgrade, so just spent an age changing very basic options back again,

    and there are programs that have compatibility issues that aren't mentioned buy the Upgrade assistant, although they ran with the win 8 previews. You get a message from windows when running them that they aren't compatible or have issues, so i'm not sure why they're not flagged during the assistance check.

    the 200MB windows update straight after install was a little worrying lol

    Post edited by adzan on
  • edited December 1969

    I ran the upgrade wizard on my desktop and laptop for Windows 8 out of curiosity, ready boot won't work with my computers firmware and there is a possibility of a device driver (my bluetooth on the laptops) not working. One can't tell if the manufactorer will release a Windows 8 compatible version and it's not simple matter to replace hardware on a laptop. I think that Windows 8 is very pretty looking, and I find the low upgrade price to be alluring, $39.99 for Windows 8 Pro if you download it. I played with Windows 8 at Best Buy and the microsoft store a little. My current feeling is that this interface is best for tablets and touch devices; I have no desire to get a touch screen monitor for my desktop computer, though if I upgraded my Intuos Tablet I could use touch and gestures on that to manipulate the screen. I guess I'm having a problem with the two environments, Metro and the traditional desktop. I have no desire to run little tablet style apps on my desktop computer, but the email client is stripped down and there is a different version of Internet Explorer in Metro and I use Windows Live Mail and don't want to use two different mail clients. Also the Metro version of IE does not run plugins, so one has to run IE on the desktop to have full functionality (like Flash). I think they should have made up their minds and either made Metro the new Desktop or given users the option to opt out of Metro on their computers if they didn't want to use it. I am also certain that businesses won't like all the distracting Metro Apps coming up in the work environment, they will want an OS that goes right to their professional desktop and lets the employees get right down to work and using the software they need.

  • adzanadzan Posts: 209
    edited December 1969

    i think the environment formerly know as metro (tefkam lol)
    may be quite nice for an independent business like a little store or small arty office
    but the larger business tech guys are already saying on the microsoft forums they wont touch the windows 8 server thing

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,358
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    the total size show when you open the folder
    for example I open my library and it show how much space it taked in total
    then I go to Runtime and it show total how much space it take of all files in runtime folders etc... etc..
    it does not show individual folder sizes in a row but at last it show something and it is faster as checking it via proportions


    Fantastic! Thanks very much!

    Oh, that doesn't sound good. What I'd like to be able to do, for example, is be in Runtime:Libraries:Pose and sort by folder size, so I can see which folders are empty and delete them without having to hover over each one. If it just shows the size of the Pose library next to each folder, that won't cut it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    ...during the World Series game tonight there were a number of commercials for WIn8. From what they showed, this is a very ugly, gaudy, and non-intuitive UI.

    I just hope this isn't the death knell for desktop/deskside PC workstations as most of the 3D CG apps we use are not supported on a tablet or one of those "convertible" notebooks. With WIn8, MicroSquish looks like they want to put CG back in the realm of mainframe supercomputers.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    maclean said:
    Of course, all the media hype so far has been on MS Surface, so we don't hear much about the regular desktop side of Win 8. The problem is that for serious work, phones are tablets are crap, and MS don't seem to realise that. The reasoning goes 'Phones are trendy. We can make some money' True, but the world will continue to use desktops are laptops for 95% of everyday work, so if MS abandon those users, they won't be selling much. Already, most analysts are predicting that very few desktop users will upgrade to Win 8.

    mac

    I've also heard many predict though that desktops are outdated and will be replaced by SmartPhones and Tablets in the near future. I'm skeptical - I for one will keep using desktops and don't really care about the SmartPhones and Tablet hype. I don't own any and have no plans for getting any either at this point.

  • edited December 1969

    I think that the prediction of the death of desktops and even laptops is highly over stated. Eventually people are going to tire at staring at tiny screens and want to have larger screens to consmer their media on--not to mention the fact that tablets aren't robust enough to run complex desktop applications. I think the desktop will always have a place in the larger scheme of things, where people who only want to use computers as media consumption devices are more likely to use other things.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,963
    edited December 1969

    Tomsde said:
    I think that the prediction of the death of desktops and even laptops is highly over stated. Eventually people are going to tire at staring at tiny screens and want to have larger screens to consmer their media on--not to mention the fact that tablets aren't robust enough to run complex desktop applications. I think the desktop will always have a place in the larger scheme of things, where people who only want to use computers as media consumption devices are more likely to use other things.

    The expectation/hope (especially among those wanting to sell software as a service) is that we will go back to the future - terminals/tablets used to launch applications running on mainframes/in the cloud.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,269
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:

    I've also heard many predict though that desktops are outdated and will be replaced by SmartPhones and Tablets in the near future. I'm skeptical - I for one will keep using desktops and don't really care about the SmartPhones and Tablet hype. I don't own any and have no plans for getting any either at this point.

    same here, although i do have a tablet. My GF has to have every tech gizmo for work and thru her i have had a play with WIN8, I don't care for it at all. While I am sure with some time i can get used to it, what i have (high end 64 bit desktop) works perfectly and i really have no need for any extra features, so for the future i see no reason to go the WIN8 route.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,811
    edited December 1969

    Is there any way to boot up and just see a blank desktop or are there going to be tiles you can't disable? I'd like to upgrade at some point but at first glance it looks like an xbox/fischer price interface that's locked down. I'm hoping that's not the case. I use my Win PC for 3D, all my social and net stuff is on a Mac.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    Tomsde said:
    I think that the prediction of the death of desktops and even laptops is highly over stated. Eventually people are going to tire at staring at tiny screens and want to have larger screens to consmer their media on--not to mention the fact that tablets aren't robust enough to run complex desktop applications. I think the desktop will always have a place in the larger scheme of things, where people who only want to use computers as media consumption devices are more likely to use other things.

    ...I have to agree.

    I couldn't imagine trying to run, not much less render in, an app like Carrara on a tablet. which has inferior cooling no dedicated GPU,rand limited memory.

    ...and going to cloud based systems? No thanks. This not only brings up security/privacy/copyright issues, but would reduce performance as you will be limited by the bandwidth and download limits provided by your ISP service. I couldn't imagine trying to work on a scene with all the resets and disconnects I experience and I'm not in a position to afford a major cable or telecom company's "ransom" to get a more stable high speed connection with unlimited uploads/downloads.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Please do some research before making misinformed statements:

    Tegra3

    Quad-Core CPU @ 1.6GHz

    Memory Size : Up to 2 GB
    GPU Cores : 12
    GPU 3D Stereo : Yes
    GPU Full Programmability : Yes
    GPU OpenGL ES Version : 2.0
    GPU OpenVG : 1.1
    GPU EGL : 1.4

    Available as a hybrid Laptop/Tablet in the Asus Transformer and upcoming tablets. And this will run a full Linux.

    The tablet I bought for Alexa has a 250GB HardDrive (Yes hard Drive) built in, as well as full size USB Host Port. This is more powerful than most laptops, and a good portion of desktops. And this is here NOW. New chips are on the way that are significantly better. Plug one of these into a HDMI capable monitor, USB Hub with Keyboard and mouse, boot Linux on it, and WHAM! Quite Nice. The 3D performance is EXCELLENT!

    Kendall

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,173
    edited December 1969

    ...my six year old 32 bit Toshiba has twice the memory and a 320GB HDD. While only a DuoCore it is also 1.6 gHz

    I've been working with only 2GB for rendering and as many know it frequently results in crashes duw to the renderfile exceeding the available memory.

    Also part of the total 2GB the tablet has would be taken up by the OS so that leaves even less available memory for rendering than I currently have.

    The only advantage it has over my old girl is the two additional cores and it's GPU (the latter which does not come into play for rendering in Daz Studio or Poser).

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    I use a 5 year old Win 7 - 64, 2.6 gHz quad core with 8 GB RAM for rendering. And I do run out of RAM occasionally, with PP2012.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...my six year old 32 bit Toshiba has twice the memory and a 320GB HDD. While only a DuoCore it is also 1.6 gHz

    I've been working with only 2GB for rendering and as many know it frequently results in crashes duw to the renderfile exceeding the available memory.

    Also part of the total 2GB the tablet has would be taken up by the OS so that leaves even less available memory for rendering than I currently have.

    The only advantage it has over my old girl is the two additional cores and it's GPU (the latter which does not come into play for rendering in Daz Studio or Poser).

    Yes, but the point is that the "tablet" is becoming more than enough to replace the PC in the average home. And you did say "no dedicated GPU,rand limited memory" did you not? The Chipsets have MORE GPU power, and the same, or more RAM, than most PC's in use (32 bit machines running on 32 bit chipsets still outnumber 64 bit systems).

    Those running "high end" applications may need more "horsepower", but the normal household does not. Email, Internet, Word Processing, Gaming, etc. The tablets that are available today are more than powerful enough, and are low cost enough, to replace the PC in the vast majority of homes.

    The age of the PC is ending. However, I don't think the "cloud" is the next destination. There are several "home wide" storage devices coming out designed specifically to host data for tablets. Several wireless routers now come with harddrives and NAS software built in that can work with iOS, Android, and Desktop environments. There are also a plethora of dedicated NAS devices that operate the same way.

    There's nothing, other than effort, keeping DS off of tablets. WIth the GPU/CPU hardware available, I'd be willing to bet that DS4 would run well on a tablet if it were ported and the relevant changes made.

    Kendall

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...and going to cloud based systems? No thanks. This not only brings up security/privacy/copyright issues, but would reduce performance as you will be limited by the bandwidth and download limits provided by your ISP service. I couldn't imagine trying to work on a scene with all the resets and disconnects I experience and I'm not in a position to afford a major cable or telecom company's "ransom" to get a more stable high speed connection with unlimited uploads/downloads.

    No clouds for me either. I don't really see the point in it, and you become too dependent on factors outside of your control.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2012

    Here are some of the specs for the OMAP5 series:

    OMAP5432 Key Benefits

    Designed to drive mobile computing devices and consumer products
    Multi-core ARM® Cortex™ processors
    Two ARM Cortex-A15 MPCore processors capable of speeds up to 2 GHz each
    Two ARM Cortex-M4 processors for low-power offload and real-time responsiveness
    Two ARM Cortex-A15 MPCore processors capable of speeds up to 2 GHz each
    Two ARM Cortex-M4 processors for low-power offload and real-time responsiveness
    Multi-core POWERVR™ SGX544-MPx graphics accelerators drive 3D gaming and 3D user interfaces
    Dedicated TI 2D BitBlt graphics accelerator
    IVA-HD hardware accelerators enable full HD 1080p60, multi-standard video encode/decode as well as 1080p30 stereoscopic 3D (S3D)
    Faster, higher-quality image and video capture with up to 20-megapixel (or 12-megapixel S3D) imaging and 1080p60 (or 1080p30S3D) video
    Supports three cameras and up to four displays simultaneously
    Packaging and memory 17mm x 17mm, 0.5mm pitch BGA dual-channel DDR3/DDR3L memory
    Supports all the major APIs, including: OpenGL® ES v2.0, OpenGL® ES v1.1, OpenCL v1.1, OpenVG v1.1 and EGL v1.3
    SMP's scalable performance activates only the cores that are needed for that particular process
    Hardware virtualization through Hypervisor allows power and performance-efficient, multiple guest operating system (OS) support

    As you can see, the chipsets are moving fast. Fast enough to support Hardware Virtualization.

    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

    Then plug it into a 42" HDMI HDTV and there ya go. Works for me great.

    Kendall

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

    Then plug it into a 42" HDMI HDTV and there ya go. Works for me great.

    Kendall

    Well what's the advantage in using a tablet rather than a desktop then?

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:
    Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

    Then plug it into a 42" HDMI HDTV and there ya go. Works for me great.

    Kendall

    Well what's the advantage in using a tablet rather than a desktop then?

    Because it CAN be used both ways. Need it on the move? Take it. Want to play at home? Do it.

    I use my Atrix2 Cell Phone in similar ways. The Linux side of the device allows me to use it as a dual-core laptop when it's plugged into to the Lapdock (either 10" or 15" laptop), a full desktop when plugged into the multimedia dock, or a monitor+keyboard/mouse, a smart phone on the road, and I can take the desktop with me at a moment's notice. Any HDMI capable monitor allows me to use the phone as a desktop when coupled with the bluetooth keyboard. Obviously the 4" screen is too small for most things, but once hooked to a monitor, it's a fine machine.

    The tablets will allow for similar things (assuming it isn't crippled by M$ myopia).

    Kendall

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,232
    edited October 2012

    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:
    Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

    Then plug it into a 42" HDMI HDTV and there ya go. Works for me great.

    Kendall

    Well what's the advantage in using a tablet rather than a desktop then?

    Because it CAN be used both ways. Need it on the move? Take it. Want to play at home? Do it.

    Kendall

    OK, but then I'd rather prefer a desktop for rendering etc. and a tablet for other stuff. Those all-in-one solutions are usually built on compomises with the drawbacks that implies.

    I wouldn't mind seeing DS or Poser with a tablet interface though, but that's another story...

    Post edited by Taozen on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,260
    edited December 1969

    As there are knowledgeable persons here and I am curious ...
    Is there still a WindowsXP mode?
    Because that is how I got my 12 year old HP Scanjet 2200c to run on my W7 pc.
    (No, a new scanner is not an option - this one has great 3d capabilities which I need for scanning my beadwork, most scanners are only scanning flat things like a sheet of paper.)

  • prixatprixat Posts: 634
    edited October 2012

    Kerya said:
    Is there still a WindowsXP mode?

    Thats a good question. I looked into it a while ago while trying to get a parallel port scanner working. (The parallel port is not supported in any standardised way for anything thats not a printer, so my scanner would not work but others might!)

    Anyway, in windows 8, MS have ported the proper virtualisation they've been using on their server platforms, Hyper-V. The Enterprise class version is a full server-client implementation, with the required modules only available on volume licenses.

    So the answer to your question is NO, the Hyper-V client in Windows 8 has no XPmode.

    ...But there are ways to get XPmode into VirtualBox (instead of MS VirtualPC) and still keep within the licencing.

    This is making a big assumption, that VirtualBox Lite works the same way in Windows 8 as it did in Win7. If it does then this method should still work: >:(

    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/12309/install-xp-mode-with-virtualbox-using-the-vmlite-plugin/

    Post edited by prixat on
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