Genesis content management in Carrara

JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

Ok... Curiosity here regarding installing Genesis content for use in Carrara...

Just trying out Carrara 8.5 (have bought 8.x pro) for the Genesis support.

Now, normally, right up to prior Genesis, i've had my numerous runtimes setup as:
V4 Characters
V4 Clothing
V4 Sc-Fi Clothing
M4 Characters
M4 Clothing
M4 Sci-fi Clothing
V3 Characters
V3 Clothing
V3 Sci-Fi Clothing
Sci-Fi
Vehicles
Buildings and Sets

etc...

Having done it that way for a few years, keeping my runtimes organized so they're not a single runtime 100 realworld miles long.

Now, how is that going to work for Genesis ?

Genesis as a catch-all folder now?

or can there be multiple Genesis folders ie:
Genesis Characters
Genesis Clothes
Genesis Sci-Fi Cloths
etc... ???

I have DS 4.5 installed, and can play with the default Genesis figure and DS content provided in Carrara, Though now I bought some Genesis clothing and was curious about which direction to proceed. ( i don't want to end up at some point farther down the road and having to redo this a few times).

For what it's worth, Genesis is quite fun to play with in Carrara. Been putting off trying it until now.

Thanks.

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Comments

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,606
    edited December 1969

    It's best to keep the Genesis characters/morphs in the same runtime, as all the data files need to be in the same place. Clothing, etc can be kept separate.

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the very quick reply fixmypcmike :)

    Ok, done that.... Made a "Genesis Clothes" folder, installed the clothing set in there...

    Hmmmm ok...

    So next step... lets see if this goes as I think it will...

    - Fire up Daz Studio... Check.
    - DS detected a new content folder- Genesis Clothes, as Native content type
    - DS Content Database updated itself for a few moments
    - Fired up Carrara
    - ran "Update Folder" on each in the Smart Content Tab:
    -- Files
    -- Categories
    -- Products

    Ok... so the new installed clothing is there.

    Really interesting though - everything still falls into place under each of the 3 types of content listings be it Files, Categories, Products.

    Guess this is going to take some getting used to. Also interesting to know, that any of the DS metadata files for other existing products, i could probably install to the said proper folders and DS will pick them up too and list them via the smart content tab within Carrara....

    Yeah, this whole Smart Content thing is gonna take me a while to get familiar with it. Will be interesting to having to find said product under one of the 3 listings instead of jumping to where I'd normally think and associate items by theme, as I have my regular runtimes as...

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    The concept of having "Smart" content is that you Can have all the stuff in any order,. in any location , but in the program , if you select an item , then the data base will show you items or textures which will work with the selected item, rather than the user searching endlessly in the wrong runtime folder structure.

    It's about making things easy for people who haven't used it before, and know (and care) nothing about established runtime folder setups or user customised runtime folders "sock drawers"

    The database, and product meta-data, should allow you to select a Figure, and should present you with a range of clothing which fit's that figure.
    if you select an item of clothing, the program should present you with options applicable to that clothing item.

    rather than the user trying to remember which customised runtime folder the item is contained in.

    Hope that makes sense :)

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Thanks 3DAGE! Yeah, that does make alot of sense, perfect sense actually.

    While having been using Carrara for a few years, and used to having making my own sets of runtimes out of necessity, the Genesis stuff and concept is quite new to me.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    It's still new to everyone :) ,.. we're all in the same position of learning what it does , and the genesis product and DS software are both still evolving, and improving,.

    For me,.. The best part's of genesis , are the Auto-fitting, which allows clothing made for older figures to work on genesis, plus the really nice morphing an posing abilities with the new mesh rig.

    :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well you'll know my cure for this issue ;)

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    It's still new to everyone :) ,.. we're all in the same position of learning what it does , and the genesis product and DS software are both still evolving, and improving,.

    For me,.. The best part's of genesis , are the Auto-fitting, which allows clothing made for older figures to work on genesis, plus the really nice morphing an posing abilities with the new mesh rig.

    :)

    Yup, and its in a league all of its own. No more gender specific clothing (for the most part). I've been awaiting to be able to use all my Gen4 clothing. Gen3 clothing usage support would be great too, really open up that library usable content. As we know, with a bit of creative use of making our own procedural shaders, alot of that content is easily made anew.

    Content organization structure is predefined too, will be interesting to see how that all looks further down the road once our libraries start accumulating alot more content. and some of those categories start reaching miles in length (partially why having separate organized runtimes helped alot with the pre-genesis generations) . Miles long linear lists just arn't fun to scroll through to find something.

    Would be nice when the time comes, somebody comes out with a handy content database type editor app, allowing people to add / make some customizable categories. especially given how Carrara gives you 3 modes of finding your Genesis content.

    Just running Carrara right now on a small netbook, 2gb ram, win7 32bit, Intel Atom N2800 1.8ghz dual core w/ hyper threading (4 threads) processor. Can't render very much or put too much into a scene, but still alot of fun playing with the Genesis stuff, even with just the basic DS content kit and a few store items from the P.A sale.

  • Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 300
    edited December 1969

    Hey Mordachai -

    I've used Categories extensively in trying to grapple with my unwieldy DAZ runtime - and those Categories do show up in Carrara 8.5 beta for me. If I go under the Smart Content tab all the way to the right, down below I'm given 3 options:
    Files, Categories, and Products, and inside Categories are all the categories I set up in DAZ.

    Not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it's made a big usability difference for me with finding stuff in Carrara.

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Hey Mordachai -

    I've used Categories extensively in trying to grapple with my unwieldy DAZ runtime - and those Categories do show up in Carrara 8.5 beta for me. If I go under the Smart Content tab all the way to the right, down below I'm given 3 options:
    Files, Categories, and Products, and inside Categories are all the categories I set up in DAZ.

    Not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it's made a big usability difference for me with finding stuff in Carrara.

    Hmmmm

    Its not showing up for me now - i mean, the new content ive bought the other day ...

    I`ve got a Genesis folder i made for all characters packs stuff like Steph 5, Evolution Morphs etc. Those show up just fine in both Carrara and Daz Studio in the Actor and Parameter tabs.

    In Daz Studio - for the Content Directory Manager I have:

    - Users Mohandai Documents Daz 3d Library My Library
    - ProgramData daz3d Daz 3d My Daz Library
    - runtime2 Genesis
    - runtime2 Genesis Scifi Clothing

    Now, all the Character stuff I installed , pointing to the Custom Folder in the installer, stuff like Steph5, Evolution Morphs, etc I pointed to the Genesis folder.

    All the new clothing sofar, i`ve been pointing the installer to Genesis Scifi Clothing.

    None of that installed clothing shows up in Daz Studio`s Smart Content left window pane, nor does it show up within Carrara`s Smart Content tab (within the 3 database views)

    The clothing however does show up in Daz Studio via the older right side window Content Library tab, aka the legacy Studio 3.x and older content viewer system. Likewise, I can get the Genesis Scifi Clothing to show up in Carrara if i goto the Content Tab - Add Folder - Content, and thus, below my regular poser runtimes, the Genesis Sci-fi Clothing shows up there, and navigate it like I would in Daz Studio`s Content Library view...

    Anyone else come across this....

    Main concern here is on my main render rig which is down right now, ive got windows on its own partition, and my runetimes on another partition entirely. on this netbook im using right now, it doesnt matter as i only have the 1 hd, 1 partition (vs rig - several hds and several partitions)

    Guess im still confused as to how this Smart Content and Genesis content stuff should be handled... And now theres the Poser DSON version of the content now too.... argh.... trx and legacy for installers...

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Has anyone else installed the DSON importer for Poser? It doubled-up the icons in the smart content in both Carrara and DS, one each of .duf and .cr2. The .cr2 won't load in Carrara, but does in Studio and there is no way to tell the difference. If it won't load in Carrara, try the other one!

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Has anyone else installed the DSON importer for Poser? It doubled-up the icons in the smart content in both Carrara and DS, one each of .duf and .cr2. The .cr2 won't load in Carrara, but does in Studio and there is no way to tell the difference. If it won't load in Carrara, try the other one!

    Hmm, nope, I hadn't installed the DSON Poser import plugin.

    I did install the dson 1.6 trx content pack, which prompts to uninstall the earlier daz studio content pack first... so no, there isn;t any duplicates showing up in that respect.

    I am curious however regarding alot of the new installer files for the products.. I mean for example,

    13439_Victoria5Legacy_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5PoserCF_1.1_dpc.exe

    and yet many others also have a "DSON" suffix making everything right now all the more confusing.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,606
    edited December 1969

    Mohandai said:
    Roygee said:
    Has anyone else installed the DSON importer for Poser? It doubled-up the icons in the smart content in both Carrara and DS, one each of .duf and .cr2. The .cr2 won't load in Carrara, but does in Studio and there is no way to tell the difference. If it won't load in Carrara, try the other one!

    Hmm, nope, I hadn't installed the DSON Poser import plugin.

    I did install the dson 1.6 trx content pack, which prompts to uninstall the earlier daz studio content pack first... so no, there isn;t any duplicates showing up in that respect.

    I am curious however regarding alot of the new installer files for the products.. I mean for example,

    13439_Victoria5Legacy_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5PoserCF_1.1_dpc.exe

    and yet many others also have a "DSON" suffix making everything right now all the more confusing.

    PoserCF is only for P9/PP2012 and requires the main file as well
    Legacy is for DS4.0
    The main file is for DS4.5, C8.5, and P9/PP2012

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Mohandai said:
    Roygee said:
    Has anyone else installed the DSON importer for Poser? It doubled-up the icons in the smart content in both Carrara and DS, one each of .duf and .cr2. The .cr2 won't load in Carrara, but does in Studio and there is no way to tell the difference. If it won't load in Carrara, try the other one!

    Hmm, nope, I hadn't installed the DSON Poser import plugin.

    I did install the dson 1.6 trx content pack, which prompts to uninstall the earlier daz studio content pack first... so no, there isn;t any duplicates showing up in that respect.

    I am curious however regarding alot of the new installer files for the products.. I mean for example,

    13439_Victoria5Legacy_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5_1.1_trx.exe
    13439_Victoria5PoserCF_1.1_dpc.exe

    and yet many others also have a "DSON" suffix making everything right now all the more confusing.

    PoserCF is only for P9/PP2012 and requires the main file as well
    Legacy is for DS4.0
    The main file is for DS4.5, C8.5, and P9/PP2012

    Thanks for the clarification on the file types :)

    Now only if I could figure out whats going on with the "Smart Content" browser tab in Carrara, as to why only the stock Daz Studio content is showing up in there only, and the rest of the extra smart content i've been installing only shows up when I manually add the folder into the regular "Content" tab (which then shows up as Legacy Daz Studio folder structure; mind you, isnt a bad thing either.)

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Mohandai :)

    If you have to manually add a folder to the Smart Content tab,.... then either that folder isn't mapped to your DS folders, or you're missing the point of smart content, and you're still customising the location of your installed content.
    the "legacy" part,.. could be from DS3, if you're still using that,.. but that probably won't be "smart content"

    "Smart content" means that you add the content into your main "Library", and the "Smart" part only shows you the content which applies to the item you have selected in the scene, whether that's a figure, or clothing, or hair.

    you don't need to create custom folders to install content to in order to have them organised..EG: genesis dresses : genesis sci-fi stuff... etc

    Both Carrara and Daz Studio, support the "Categories" view, where you can create customised collections of items, for example : Genesis dresses,.. Genesis sci-fi stuff ... etc

    So, instead of creating a new folder for genesis shoes, and installing all your shoes there,....
    you would install the products to your main "My Library", folder, then create a custom "Category", and add all your shoes to it.
    then you can locate that in DS or Carrara.

    Hope that makes sense :)

  • SLoTH_XVXSLoTH_XVX Posts: 92
    edited October 2012

    I know I am missing something or not getting something....

    I am not able to veiw any Genesis anything through Carrara.

    I have DAZ|Studio 4.5 and Carrara 8.1 installed on my Laptop all of my (non-genesis) content on an external hard drive. The base Genesis stuff is on the 'c' drive of the lap top, I have not yet installed any add-ons yet.

    I am finding my self to be quite lost with where and how to view/use the Genesis content in Carrara......will I need to install Carrara 8.5 Beta to use Genesis?

    EDIT:
    BTW I am not using and have not been installing any of the smart content files as I have a runtime system that works for me.

    Post edited by SLoTH_XVX on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,606
    edited December 1969

    SLoTH_XVX said:
    I know I am missing something or not getting something....

    I am not able to veiw any Genesis anything through Carrara.

    I have DAZ|Studio 4.5 and Carrara 8.1 installed on my Laptop all of my (non-genesis) content on an external hard drive. The base Genesis stuff is on the 'c' drive of the lap top, I have not yet installed any add-ons yet.

    I am finding my self to be quite lost with where and how to view/use the Genesis content in Carrara......will I need to install Carrara 8.5 Beta to use Genesis?

    EDIT:
    BTW I am not using and have not been installing any of the smart content files as I have a runtime system that works for me.

    Yes, Genesis only works in the 8.5 Beta

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    Thanks FixmyPCMike

    Hi Sloth_xvx :)

    Carrara 8 was written and released before Genesis was developed, so Genesis can't work in C8.

    Genesis will only work in the "Beta" of C8.5,. and eventually in the 8.5 production version, when it's released.

    The Carrara 8.5 "beta", is a separate program from C8, and it should be installed to a "New folder",

    Because genesis uses Smart content, and because genesis only comes with Daz Studio 4, ..then you'll need to have Daz Studio 4.5 installed,.. and the DAZ CMS (content management service) installed and running to use Genesis in either DS or C8.5

    The general plan is to have a built in CMS for Carrara, so that Carrara users don't need to have DS installed to use genesis.
    but right now you need DS installed to use Genesis in Carrara 8.5.


    I am not using and have not been installing any of the smart content files as I have a runtime system that works for me.

    You don't need to change the way you work, or where you install content,. as long as your Poser Runtime is mapped as a Content directory in Daz Studio, the CMS will be able to work with genesis and any smart content.

    If you're not using DS4.5 with Genesis, and you haven't been buying new stuff for genesis,.. then you'll only see the basic "Starter essentials" which come with DS4.5

    The Main product installers for any content (.trx) will also add product data, whether you install any specific "Meta-data" files or not,.. so, any new content you've bought which was made for genesis,.. should show up in your DS 4.5, (smart content) and in the Carrara 8.5 beta (smart content) .

    Hope that makes sense :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Insert derisive comment about CMS.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    LOL :)

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 2,617
    edited December 1969

    I love CMS. I just install to My Library and let it go where it wants to go. Unless there is something really, really wrong with the instructions in the installer I have no problems. I use my Categories. They are a blessing.

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Thankyou both once again, 3DAGE and FixmypcMike

    Ok, this took a bit of trial and error and I think I'm finally getting the hang of this Smart Content...

    First of all - the new smart content being installed that wasn't showing up in the "Smart Content" tab... There was a bit of mis-understanding happening.

    Every time I fired up Daz Studio 4.5, I thought the database was being updated and finding / adding the newly installed content, by means of the"Reading Asset" dialogue window, with the orange bar scrolling across left to right to 100%. This appears this is not the case.

    Digging further into Daz Studio's Smart Content, there's a small Square box in the top right of the Smart Content Tab

    Clicking it reveals a popup dialogue box, with "Content DB Maintenance" as a selection choice.

    Choosing "Content DB Maintenance", brings you to this next window displaying a bunch of Database Maintenance checkbox options.

    I chose the "Re-Import Metadata" option out of curiosity. After all, what could it hurt?

    Putting the mouse over that option also brings up the following explanation tool-tip:

    "Choosing this option will allow you to selectively import metadata for the files that have been installed by a product. This Cannot be undone."

    So, having made that choice, I ticked the option and hit Accept.

    I closed Daz Studio, then started Daz Studio all over again, and to my surprise, I get a new dialogue window displaying a list of installed products - all the Genesis products I've installed sofar that had not been showing up within the Smart Content area in both Daz Studio and within Carrara's Smart Content tab... I hit "OK" and another little window pops up showing a progress bar zipping by as the new content is being added to the database, then disappears.

    Now, I know that every time I install a Genesis product, then fire up Daz Studio, I'll get this dialogue window popup, showing the new content to be added, and after that it is all done. I can close Daz Studio, and fire up Carrara, check the Smart Content Tab and see all the new installed products...

    I guess now i'll be un-installing (or could start anyways) the clothing outfits i set into its own folder seperate from the Genesis folder and just re-install them into the one main Genesis folder... Might have to run the Content Database maintenance to clean itself up before re-installing anew...


    Btw, 3DAGE, you mentioned something about creating my own folders within the Content Database listing, to my own customization as desired... How do I do that, and within Daz Studio i assume?

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  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    Hi :)

    the categories section in the Content Library allows you to create additional Sub categories.
    Most products are also automatically categorised here, but as far as I know , you can add products into your own specific categories,

    perhaps a regular Daz Studio user like Fixmypcmike can give you more information on using categories,.
    or you can get more info in the Daz Studio forum.

    I only use DS for some tasks, and I've never had a need to use categories.

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 1,645
    edited December 1969

    I am still getting missing materials for Genesis stuff - I can see and load say an item of clothing, but if it comes with a selection of different materials, these are not showing up either in the Smart Content tab or the normal content tab. I have run DS 4.5 before trying. Is this still a known outstanding issue, or is it just me?! As an example, the Morphing Business Suit, which is very recent and so should surely work?

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited October 2012

    HI PhilW :)

    In the process of developing DS4 and,.. making genesis work in Carrara, ...the duf format was created, and Carrara can open Duf files,.

    So,.. from DS4.5, you can save out material presets for items which aren't already in DUF format, (new products will come as DUF )
    then you can select the figure, or clothing and apply the duf saved preset.

    The issue was the Carrara doesn't handle DSB (Material files) which was the old format, and so, many of the poses and material presets in DS won't appear in the Carrara smart content.

    the DSON stuff for poser, is also using Duf files, which are them imported / converted ,..so that poser can use them too.
    so if the user wants to open genesis stuff in poser, it first needs to be save as a DUF in DS, then imported through the DSON importer.

    this also means that released products are being updated,.. and you can soon download them to get the Poser companion files, which will be duf, and will open in Carrara :)

    or you can DIY and save out what you need right now instead of downloading again.

    Carrara will open Genesis and the clothing , it's just the materials and poses which need to be saved out as Duf, before you can use them.

    eventually all products should come as DUF ,..
    then they can look at converting all forms of life on earth to duf format and dominate the galaxy. :) or just Utah, .. whatever is easiest.

    Andy :)

    Post edited by 3DAGE on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 1,645
    edited December 1969

    ...or just bring out their own brand of beer?!

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    t

    his also means that released products are being updated,.. and you can soon download them to get the Poser companion files, which will be duf, and will open in Carrara

    Are you sure of this, Andy?

    I installed the DSON importer for POSER, as well as the companion files - what happened is that I now have duplicate icons of all my Genesis content. One set is .duf and the other .cr2 - which open OK in Studio, but not in Carrara. The Studio ions at least have a distinguishing mark to show they are the .cr2 files, but there is no distinguishing the icons in Carrara so I just have to chance it - if it opens, it's .duf, if it fails, it's a .cr2.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    DOH !

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  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Roy :)

    it would be mad not to update the existing genesis products, so that's a best guess.

    but,. we're in the same boat,..I have the same issue,... they both show up if the DSON companion files are in a DS mapped runtime.

    The CR2's are for poser and are different from the standard poser (since they load using the dson importer process) to pull data from DS.

    the companion files like the mats and poses (as you say) will work in Carrara, but partly because of the excitement, of having a new toy,
    I also ended up with doubles sometimes tripples,.since there were many things being re-installed :(

    I think this is one of the issues that needs to be looked at before there's any final release of C8.5, but it may also just be the general confusion of where any of this stuff should be installed to.

    fortunately uninstallers help, but I'm still not sure that we should be seeing double, or what the carrara solution could be, because we still need to be able to see poser CR2's and the new files, but perhaps not in the Smart content,.
    using the poser runtime to install the companion files, and then accessing them through the normal Runtime (Content) tab would perhaps work better.

    it's worth a try :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Hi 3dage

    Hoo boy - I'll have to get a bigger HD!

    Yes, it may be a try to move them to the Poser folder - I'll have to do some serious weeding, the .cr2's are all mixed in with the .duf's...but I have a sneaking suspicion CMS will winkle them out wherever they are hidden and put them into smart content:)

  • JadeonarJadeonar Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    Hi :)

    the categories section in the Content Library allows you to create additional Sub categories.
    Most products are also automatically categorised here, but as far as I know , you can add products into your own specific categories,

    perhaps a regular Daz Studio user like Fixmypcmike can give you more information on using categories,.
    or you can get more info in the Daz Studio forum.

    I only use DS for some tasks, and I've never had a need to use categories.


    Thanks. It didn't occur to me to look there. :)

    I too very rarely (if almost never) use Daz Studio anymore after I went over to Carrara a fears back.

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