Carrara 9...DAZ, I'm begging you.

245

Comments

  • MuphasaMuphasa Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ingvar,

    Comparing total feature set of Carrara and C4D is not possible or practical. But I don't think it is too far fetch to compare similar features between the two. Multi-pass render is in both and Carrara's is not bad. It just has bugs or a bug.(*see comment below.) The images also need some anti-aliasing and some smoothing and they would match C4D which is what I was trying to say is just a little bit of polish and Carrara would be the bomb. I would not have any reason to look for other solutions. I think Carrara is so close to what I want it to do but alas I have to wait for bugs to get fixed which could take years or not at all. For still images, I think Carrara can't be beat in this price range but for animation it is too frustration to fight.

    I don't think we are too far off in what you or I want for Carrara, polish the feature set it already has. Make the ui better. Give a better time line or dope sheet. I personally want a content rigging script to give any poser/daz/genesis figure a GUI for faster posing. Make the features work as expected. Fix bugs in a timely manner.

    But improvements to existing features and fixing problems does not pay the bills. (I think Daz has even said that) I would argue that updates if it was done on a regular basis would make a difference. Because I would trust Daz more to come out with a better product and feel more comfortable spending money with them. I think others would feel the same. I just hope things will change and that Daz will deliver a solid Carrara 8.5.

    And if Daz proves me wrong I will gladly eat crow. Just add some cajun seasoning and it will taste like chicken.


    Holly,

    I think that is right on how Carrara is calculating the depth pass now that you have said it and from what I have seen in the renders. Maybe Carrara is forgetting or miscalculating the depth pass from 1 frame to the next. Instend of something like C4d where it is a constant calculation from the camera.

    -M

  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak, et al

    begging doesn't work. LOL! Laughing to keep from crying helps though.

    8.5 still a beta??? LOL! You gotta be kidding me!!

    Let me lead you to the Promised Land........Blender! Yes! And I have C4D with Advance Render module. Great app, no doubt, but
    Maxon has changed the pricing so it's a rich man's app. Glad I got it before I retired and it was relatively affordable.

    Blender is amazing, not that hard to learn, and verrrrry fun and satisfying.
    Carrara does physics I admit, but doesn't do fluids like Blender.

    Also, Blender has a compositor and built in......I'm doing a tutorial about Rotoscoping that's comparable to AE.
    http://goodspiritgraphics.com/software/tutorials/blender-tutorials/blendertut1/

    After the almost 2yr Reality for Carrara debaucle......"please DAZ, pretty please with cream & sugar on it, pleeeeeeze!!"
    I gave up on seeing any significant improvements in Carrara, since DS integration, DS content, is really their focus.
    It's a business decision. I wish them well.

    You owe it to yourself to at least see what all the BFD is about Blender......and it IS a BFD!

    I still love & use Carrara (and Bryce), but they will never, imho, approach Blender's considerable toolset and physics, and render engines.
    I've set it up for 3Delight, Octane, Yafaray in addition to Cycles.

    It renders 10X faster using the NVIDIA GPU than my Phenom II 955 CPU.

    My point is, Carrara is great, but Blender is awesome, and instead of waiting, waiting, waiting for Carrara to catch up,
    see what great things you can do in Blender and integrate it with Carrara or Bryce, etc

    You really don't have to get C4D or Maya to do Pixar quality modeling & animation.

    Have fun.....life is too short to beg & wait. ;-)

    >>>>>Let the fun begin here...... http://blenderportal.com/

  • edited December 1969

    And guess what! Thea render is finally getting GPU rendering.
    They announced it on their facebook page. I have the blender
    plugin for Thea Render.

  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Megacal, I've tried Blender. I rather enjoy working with it. However, it doesn't have a set of tools (yet) to make it work easily with content. My modelling skills are decent, but the biggest thing for me is TIME. I have a job and a family, so I don't have the time to model everything I'm going to use in an animation OR go through the hours it takes to get DAZ content into Blender and have it work properly. I really wish I did, but sadly, I don't.

    If DAZ would develop a set of tools to make their content work with Blender, I'd happily pay for it.

    Besides, I know crying to DAZ doesn't work. I haven't been around here as long as some (about 6 years), but I've been here long enough to know how DAZ works. Still, since they have their new "partnership" then maybe things can change. Maybe. (OK, probably not, but I can still try.)

  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    re: Blender....

    it doesn’t have a set of tools (yet) to make it work easily with content.

    Kodiak,
    I'm glad you tried it.......hopefully 2.5+, as it's so much better.
    And maybe down the road you'll have a use for it. Seems like every time you blink there's something new.
    I know they have an army of coders working on it constantly. No way for DAZ or anyone else to compete
    with that kind of upgrade cycle, especially for free.

    Tyler, thanks for the Kerkeythea heads up.......I wanted to give it a try as well.

    BTW, the 10X faster renders are just for Cycles using an NVIDIA CUDA card. Haven't tried it with
    the other GPU renderers yet.

    Lots of great improvements in the pipe for Blender & Cycles.
    :cheese:

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Megacal


    I tried Blender too, but it didn't really fit in with my needs or worklow.


    Just hoping Daz takes it's time and gets C9 right.
    We REALLY don't need more Carrara versions, we need the ones we get to work right.

  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 316
    edited December 1969

    Muphasa said:
    Ingvar,

    Holly,

    I think that is right on how Carrara is calculating the depth pass now that you have said it and from what I have seen in the renders. Maybe Carrara is forgetting or miscalculating the depth pass from 1 frame to the next. Instend of something like C4d where it is a constant calculation from the camera.

    -M

    I can confirm that. You would need a larger object to set the range, and then for an animation this becomes complicated. Shoestring Shaders has a function that is based on the distance from the camera, but I did not play with that much to see if it accomplish the same thing with less fuss. The 8-bit limitation really kills the usefullness of a depth map so I have not pursued this any further.

  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    I tried Blender too, but it didn’t really fit in with my needs or worklow.

    That's cool. I know it's not for everyone, but hope everyone at some point will give it a shot.

    It was something I had to confront.

    It's "just a tool" and I'm using in a very limited way for now. Can't imagine I'd ever try to
    do terrains & skies in it.

    But do plan to do some motion/camera tracking/compositing to fly a mothership over my
    neighborhood. :cheese:

  • head waxhead wax Posts: 2,921
    edited December 1969

    heh Cal that will scare those racoons :)

  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    :lol: Great idea....didn't think of that!

    Hope you're gettin' "some" mate! :)

  • head waxhead wax Posts: 2,921
    edited October 2012

    heh, had my fourth surf since april did a face plant in the shore dump and nearly snapped my neck - haven't been able to drive for three days :( .. wasn't a bad reo though the white water flipped the r ail and the bottom is mostly rock so I'm lucky a face ploughed the sand bank!

    Sorry to go off topic :) :) :)

    Yes Daz, what are you doing?
    You're just losing good loyal customers by procrastinating!
    We know you have a finished version of Carrara 9 hidden away till the PC club sale ends....
    And we all know it's going to be way better than Blender ... ;)

    Teasers :)

    Post edited by head wax on
  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    did a face plant in the shore dump and nearly snapped my neck
    Long as you had a good time & can still use your mouse & graphics tablet! :lol:

    Shouldn't laugh, but that's a funny scene! Glad you're Ok. :)

    ...and it's going to be way better than Blender

    In your dreams! ;-P

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 491
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    I want Daz to take its time.
    I'm not bothered by the slow development cycle because I don't really feel the need to update my software very often.
    They just need to work out the bugs, nice and slow. Get it done and get it done right.
    Then get out some documentation.


    I'm still running C7Pro and until we get a final version of C8Pro, I'm sticking with C7 (and maybe will until I have to upgrade).
    I'm convinced most people don't get the full use out of Carrara.


    Stan is right, we really don't need to have Carrara to become more DS like. It is already DS like enough.


    Kevin, spot on about the presets. We could use some updates there.


    Daz just needs to slow down. Get more vendors making Carrara specific items. Since Daz makes most of its money on content and not software, that might be really helpful

    Heard. C7Pro owns. Have never had a single problem in any regard. I have no intention of upgrading until 8Pro is ready to be replaced by Pro9. I do my Windows the same way.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    BC Rice said:

    Heard. C7Pro owns. Have never had a single problem in any regard. I have no intention of upgrading until 8Pro is ready to be replaced by Pro9. I do my Windows the same way.

    What leads you to believe C9 will work any better then C8? C9 will be crammed full of genesis, I'm pessimistic it will work as well as C8.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 491
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    BC Rice said:

    Heard. C7Pro owns. Have never had a single problem in any regard. I have no intention of upgrading until 8Pro is ready to be replaced by Pro9. I do my Windows the same way.

    What leads you to believe C9 will work any better then C8? C9 will be crammed full of genesis, I'm pessimistic it will work as well as C8.

    No, no. I'm saying that I will upgrade to 8 pro when 9 pro is getting ready to be released. That's the best way to do software upgrades for me.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I held out on C8 for about 8 or 9 months, until 8.1 came out... But there was several bugs that prevented animating... The Beta has fixed most of those issues (and yes, created new issues along the way). C7.2 is very stable, but C8.5 is faster and 64bit so even with some awkward flaws C8.5 is "better" than C7.2. I have so many art deadlines right now I am already feeling anxiety because the beta will expire again Nov 1...

  • DBuchterDBuchter Posts: 49
    edited December 1969

    Muphasa said:
    I am glad someone posted about this. I am frustrated with Carrara and it's slow development cycle and bugs. I think the bugs are my most pet peeves atm because I am always finding them. I have given up on the bug tracker and such. I just dont see Daz that interested in making Carrara the best it could be. Introduce a new feature and break something else and the time it takes to fix that feature takes forever or not at all.

    So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00 but I can get it for edu discount if I want. That is $280 I have saved up to make this purchased. Money that would go to Daz if they would just kill the bug, but I have lost all faith that Daz will do more with Carrara than the bare minimum after release.

    For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

    Oh that is good news, the maker of Interposer seems to be making a plugin for Genesis. Way cool.

    These two programs are not in the same league. Also, bugs don't get fixed as fast when your product sells for a1/10th of the price of your product comparison.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    I held out on C8 for about 8 or 9 months, until 8.1 came out... But there was several bugs that prevented animating... The Beta has fixed most of those issues (and yes, created new issues along the way). C7.2 is very stable, but C8.5 is faster and 64bit so even with some awkward flaws C8.5 is "better" than C7.2. I have so many art deadlines right now I am already feeling anxiety because the beta will expire again Nov 1...


    Holly


    Do you use the aniBlock importer?
    How about Mimic for Carrara?


    I'm just asking. I use them and before I do any updating, those two items are extremely important to my workflow.
    I'm only 32 bit for now.
    Just curious.


    I have a load of deadlines too, so no switchover for awhile.


    Good luck with YOUR deadlines!

  • 3dtoday3dtoday Posts: 0
    edited May 2013

    ingvarai said:
    [
    Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can't get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and "specialties". Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

    But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don't like it. Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because "strange" things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

    So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
    Maya is perhaps what I need - but I'll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
    There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

    -Ingvar

    Hi Ingvar,

    I just started a new Cinema 4d post,

    thanks!

    Post edited by 3dtoday on
  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    for the love of GAWD! USE HEXAGONS modeler in place of Carraras Vertex Modeler!

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    for the love of GAWD! USE HEXAGONS modeler in place of Carraras Vertex Modeler!

    Agree. I may have had to force myself to use Hex after I got it; it's interface and tool names were quite different then what I was used to. But for me and the way I learned to model; simple box modeler lol, Hex works far better then carrara's modeling room. I could get over the interface and tools, but not the one mesh at a time thing.

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the carrara modeling room, it just does not work the way I do and I find that quite frustrating. Anyway, why limit myself to tea when I have coffee ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,943
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    for the love of GAWD! USE HEXAGONS modeler in place of Carraras Vertex Modeler!

    Agree. I may have had to force myself to use Hex after I got it; it's interface and tool names were quite different then what I was used to. But for me and the way I learned to model; simple box modeler lol, Hex works far better then carrara's modeling room. I could get over the interface and tools, but not the one mesh at a time thing.

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the carrara modeling room, it just does not work the way I do and I find that quite frustrating. Anyway, why limit myself to tea when I have coffee ;)

    Anyway, why limit myself to tea when I have coffee ;)
    Love that part!
    Say, just curious - since I have barely touched Hex, as most of the things I do work great right inside Carrara, where I live anyways. But I am interested in working in Hex, so I went into the Hex forums and they were talking about saving, then deleting poly's, then build some more, delete some more... in order to build a whole model - so Hex doesn't crash. Then pray when you bring all of the polys together. Is Hex really that sensitive? What's with that? I'm hoping that it was just a special case, or something. Neither of you two really do low-res models, do you? If it handles what you do... it must not be too unstable, right?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,943
    edited December 1969

    I still don't get the whole "Update our render engine" thing. Please don't change the thing. Update? Fine. But please don't go and replace it. Good render engines are hard to find. Great ones even harder. Carrara's is stupendously kick asmosis? Yeah... Kick asmosis!

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 1,028
    edited December 1969

    I still don't get the whole "Update our render engine" thing. Please don't change the thing. Update? Fine. But please don't go and replace it. Good render engines are hard to find. Great ones even harder. Carrara's is stupendously kick asmosis? Yeah... Kick asmosis!

    I agree. It ain't broke IMHO. So don't fix it.

  • revenger681revenger681 Posts: 153
    edited December 1969

    Completely agree with the original poster here. DAZ is cheap when it comes to quality releases of Carrara, or so it would seem. The part that is not cheap: the price itself....

  • revenger681revenger681 Posts: 153
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    for the love of GAWD! USE HEXAGONS modeler in place of Carraras Vertex Modeler!

    Agree. I may have had to force myself to use Hex after I got it; it's interface and tool names were quite different then what I was used to. But for me and the way I learned to model; simple box modeler lol, Hex works far better then carrara's modeling room. I could get over the interface and tools, but not the one mesh at a time thing.

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the carrara modeling room, it just does not work the way I do and I find that quite frustrating. Anyway, why limit myself to tea when I have coffee ;)

    I hate hex... I've never been able to get the hang of it.... I still find myself going back to C6 pro and using it's modeling room, lol.. Am I the only one who feels that way?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,700
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    for the love of GAWD! USE HEXAGONS modeler in place of Carraras Vertex Modeler!

    Agree. I may have had to force myself to use Hex after I got it; it's interface and tool names were quite different then what I was used to. But for me and the way I learned to model; simple box modeler lol, Hex works far better then carrara's modeling room. I could get over the interface and tools, but not the one mesh at a time thing.

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the carrara modeling room, it just does not work the way I do and I find that quite frustrating. Anyway, why limit myself to tea when I have coffee ;)

    I hate hex... I've never been able to get the hang of it.... I still find myself going back to C6 pro and using it's modeling room, lol.. Am I the only one who feels that way?


    No. 3dage and others use it quite a bit.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,030
    edited December 1969

    I prefer the Carrara modeller to Hex,.

    I really dislike the "validate", validate, validate, every time you do something, ...it's counter intuitive,

    I did this in Carrara's modeller, about a week ago.

    bug_ship_2.jpg
    1020 x 740 - 83K
    bug_ship_1.jpg
    1020 x 740 - 84K
  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    Love that part!
    Say, just curious - since I have barely touched Hex, as most of the things I do work great right inside Carrara, where I live anyways. But I am interested in working in Hex, so I went into the Hex forums and they were talking about saving, then deleting poly's, then build some more, delete some more... in order to build a whole model - so Hex doesn't crash. Then pray when you bring all of the polys together. Is Hex really that sensitive? What's with that? I'm hoping that it was just a special case, or something. Neither of you two really do low-res models, do you? If it handles what you do... it must not be too unstable, right?

    I think if you started with Carrara's modeling room, stick with it. You know it and your comfortable in it. To deleting polys, I'll do it if I want to bridge something but mostly I start off using fast extrude. As for stability, I had no trouble with Hex until the most recent version. A problem with symmetry where it would crash while I was doing something, translation, extrude. The problem was with models done in previous versions of hex and then later with the new version. Fortunately, I bought Hex 2 on CD so I was able to ramp back to 2.1 where I don't have any problems with it. A lot of people can't get version 2 these days

    Some use 1.21 which, as I understand is even more stable. but those versions don't work well on the newer Macs. A pity.

    I have a combination of software I'm trying to learn and all of them compliment each other. I look forward to the next version of Carrara and I do want to be able to model just as well in it as do in Hex.

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    I prefer the Carrara modeller to Hex,.

    I really dislike the "validate", validate, validate, every time you do something, ...it's counter intuitive,

    I did this in Carrara's modeller, about a week ago.

    That is excellent! I'd pay real money for a full tutorial of how you modeled it in C and UV'ed. Eitherway, it's
    a beaut!

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