genesis

TheKDTheKD Posts: 193
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

This might be a dumb question, but I still have trouble navigating the new site map. Where can I find the documentation on how to use genesis and related features like atuofit?

Comments

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 193
    edited December 1969

    Ah, so there is nothing made specifically for carrara? Probably should have seen that coming lol. Kinda hard to have a successful beta, without documenting how new features are supposed to work eh?

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    HI The KD :)

    Genesis should work in the same way as any other figure in carrara, so it's a matter of loading the figure from the "Smart content" , and adding any clothing , posing or animation you want.

    most of the information available for genesis applies to whatever program you're using it in, whether that'd Daz Studio, Carrara or now Poser

    To us genesis in the 8.5 beta, you'll need to have Daz Studio installed with the CMS (Daz Content Management Service) to supply and update the information in the new "Smart content" tab in the browser.

    Autofit works er... Automatically, on genesis clothing, so,. you can add the clothing to any genesis body shape and it'll adjust to fit, and it;'ll auto-adjust If you change the figure's shape.

    If you want to use clothing from older figure such as generation 4, or 3 , then I think you also need the "Iconic shapes for genesis", which provide head and body shapes for genesis and also the ability to autofit clothing from those figures to genesis.

    In Daz Studio,. you can save Material presets, Character presets, Pose presets, as DUF format. this is the new daz format.
    Carrara 8.5 can import duf files,. so you can import poses , materials etc, as DUF

    As far as I'm aware, future products will be in DUF format

    Genesis has a different bone structure and IK, and this means it poses differently,.
    the figure has a Hip and a Pelvis. and two abdomen bones.

    In Carrara if you grab a foot or hand and pull it, the other leg or arm will move in an opposite direction.
    You can add an IK Terminator to each thigh and shoulder, to stop this and allow you to pose the figure normally.

    Poser poses for older figures, may or may not work on genesis because of the different bones.

    Anything specific you need ,..or if you're having problems working with genesis in the beta , just ask.

    Hope it helps :)

  • BrianP21361BrianP21361 Posts: 208
    edited December 1969

    3DAge,

    I have a Genesis question.

    Is there a way to shut off Autofit? I purchased Poke Away for Genesis (http://www.daz3d.com/shop/poke-away). The morphs load into Carrara and I can apply them, but because of Autofit, the clothing mirrors the morphs in the character.

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 193
    edited December 1969

    Thanks a bunch 3DAGE, as usual, what you say is very helpful indeed. I haven't dove in to play just yet, been reading up trying to wrap my head around genesis, and how to install stuff properly for DS so far. Is there a quick and easy way to tell which things installed needs to be saved into the DUF format?

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    Hi Brian :)

    I've not used Poke away, ...I think it's a DS only product,.. but i could be wrong ..

    you can usually adjust for poke-through with smoothing on the figure or the clothing
    or handle it in the old way by making the part of the figure invisible.

    You could also use Magnets to deform the mesh, as you can in DS.

    Carrara can handle some types of data from DS, but things which rely on scripts don't generally work..
    As far as I know, there's no way to turn OFF Auto-fit. either globally or selectively.

    you could add a bug report of stuff like this , so that the developers can look into it.


    Hi The KD :)

    Is there a quick and easy way to tell which things installed needs to be saved into the DUF format?

    The new DSON stuff is all coming out ready to go, and most of the main products like M5 V5 etc.. have been updated,. so,.. it's time to download it all again :(

    As for where to install stuff,. that's customisable, but the default should be "My Documents\Daz3D\ My Library" :


    you can also test Cararra 8.5 without DS and genesis, ..you can just install the Carrara beta into a new folder and run it as you would normally,.

    To test Carrara with genesis you also need to install Daz Studio,. since the genesis base figure comes as part of the default content.
    there's also a separate Content installer,. (Daz Studio Essentials) and that gives you a bunch of content to work with.

    Daz Studio creates a couple of folders when you install it, the main one is the (My Documents\Daz3D\My Library) where all of your Daz and Genesis content should be installed to, and the other folder is the Daz Studio program folder. where you should NEVER install anything into.

    Any Genesis products should be installed to your "My Documents Daz3D\My Library" folder,.
    "My Library" is the DS4 replacement name for the "Content" folder in DS3 .

    Install Daz Studio4.5,., and the "Daz Studio Essentials",. If you use Poser or Carrara, install the "Poser Essentials" files.

    You'll need to Open Daz Studio once, so that it can create the dynamic database which the Content Management Service uses to update the Smart content in the browser.

    The CMS should normally start when you boot up, or restart your system, and it'll then be running whether you're working in Daz Studio or Carrara.

    but you don't need to have Daz Studio running to use genesis in carrara,.. it's just the CMS service that's needed.

    Install the Carrara 8.5 beta. to a new folder,. and run it
    that's it.

    Hope it helps :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    @Areneldon - The dress was made by exporting an Optitex from DS as .obj, importing and fitting to Genesis using the Transfer Utility and the smoothing collision. Pic 1 shows how well it fits. Exported, with the figure, as .duf scene.

    The second pic shows what it looks like in Carrara. The poke through is too extensive to get a decent fit without distorting it it badly. Carrara doesn't have Hexagon's smoothing tool where you can iron over and there is no way to hide and unhide Genesis while trying to get a vert selection that will let me move them with minimum interference in the surrounding areas.

    When I try to make a morph in the ass room, I do the selection, make a new morph target area, but when I go to edit, the selection area deselects and the only options are save. load or validate. The poke through shown in modelling mode is very different to that shown in normal scene mode, so making changes would involve much back-and forth guess work. Pic3

    Trying to make morph in the VM, the Genesis figure isn't with it, so trying to fix poke through would be pure guess work.

    I've added my vote to having the smoothing modifier included in Carrara.:)

    dress2.jpg
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    dress1.jpg
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    dress.jpg
    500 x 637 - 37K
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 193
    edited October 2012

    Personally, well at least for V4, I haven't tried with genesis yet, I use zbrush to fix my poke through.

    I have a question about shaders now..... I thought that genesis came in with V4 UV's by default, but I have a feeling I was wrong. I slapped one of my V4 starting point shaders onto genesis, and this is what I got lmao.

    So to fix this, if I understand correctly, I have to save a version out in DS with V4 UV's, and load that one up? I don't see the V4 UV map as an option in DS.

    HAHAHAHA.jpg
    640 x 480 - 60K
    Post edited by TheKD on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    Hi the KD :)

    The UV's for the base genesis, will work with V4 texture maps, but if you're dropping a saved Carrara shader onto genesis, it wonlt re arrange the order of the shaders,. (genesis has a different channel order to V4)
    so, you end up with shaders applied to the wrong shading domains.

    Personally, well at least for V4, I haven't tried with genesis yet, I use
    zbrush to fix my poke through.

    You can edit directly in carrara to adjust poke-through,. or other issues.
    You'd select the clothing item, click to edit it in the vertex modeller or assembly room, then select "Animation mode" (middle blue button) on the top right .

    that allows you to edit the clothing, (in a pose) on the posed or animated figure.
    you can select a morph in the clothing, and then edit it to suit.

    Hope it helps :)

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 193
    edited December 1969

    Aha! Yes, now that I look at the shader, I see what you mean. Genesis order is way different, easy enough to fix I guess, just got to do some rearranging, then save out the new starting point shader. I been playing a bit, and I am pretty pleasantly surprised how well genesis works in carrara. The only real gripe I run into so far, it takes like 10 minutes to insert genesis into a scene now. I assume it has to do with how many addon morphs you have installed, it used to be really quick.

    Took me a while to find where the shaping slider were :)

    For minor pokethrough, the way you said is easier, only have a tiny spot or two to fix. It probably has something to do with my proficiency in zbrush, for major problems like the dress up there, zbrush is much easier for me. Plus I can add some creasing or folding if needed for realism or whatever. I think once I get all the initial crapola all set up, I am going to have a blast playing with genesis. I just hope the beta gets extended again lol.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2012

    You can edit directly in carrara to adjust poke-through,. or other issues.
    You’d select the clothing item, click to edit it in the vertex modeller or assembly room, then select “Animation mode” (middle blue button) on the top right .

    that allows you to edit the clothing, (in a pose) on the posed or animated figure.
    you can select a morph in the clothing, and then edit it to suit.

    Purely in the interests of beta testing and reporting shortcomings to help improve Carrara:)

    Adjusting the mesh on small poke through is no problem. Doing it with something as major as this example and getting a good result is virtually impossible in Carrara.

    Using morphs is another thing altogether - firstly because it only allows morphing in existing channels and this poke through crosses channels, secondly because you can't hide and unhide the underlying figure to make selections.

    After about an hour of gently coaxing the dress mesh to the surface, I go to validate the morph - "An error occurred executing switch" - then "An error occurred executing save" - then "An error occurred executing exit".

    The point is, the .duf format should import a scene as it was when it left Studio and secondly Carrara really needs the smoothing modifier. What took an hour hour to produce a fruitless result took seconds in DS and minutes in Hex. Because in Studio you have the smoothing modifier and in Hex you are not restricted to existing channels and can hide and unhide the underlying figure mesh.

    Not criticizing here - just pointing out some shortcomings that need fixing if Carrara is to be made competitive with Studio. and attract Studio users:)

    Post edited by Roygee on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    I agree Roy :)

    Carrara can be better, and if that means adding features or tools which are part of other Daz3D programs, which sadly haven't been added to carrara, then it should be done. both to make the transition from DS to Carrara easier for customers, and to make Carrara a more useful and more competitive program.


    I go to validate the morph - “An error occurred executing switch” - then “An error occurred executing save” - then “An error occurred executing exit”.

    that's probably because you're editing multiple morph areas at the same time,. (switching) morph targets or areas without Validating.
    :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'll argue a bit with that. Tools, sure, studio interface structure, NO. One of the things I hate about studio is the interface and menu structure. This new one is far better then the old one but can still be a PITA. Now DAZ is trying to restructure the interface in carrara to be more like studio, meaning tools I use all the time, that used to be right there easy to find/use and now buried in some sub-menu.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    Hi Stan :)

    I know what you're saying,, and I agree, it makes little sense to change something that works for the users the way it is right now.

    adding new tools, or making the existing tools better and easier to use, is different from adding icons, or parts of another programs interface., but I do like the addition of Puppeteer, and it's not a "Tab" option,. it's nicely placed under Controllers.

    However,. having some options in the animation menu , like "zero figure" actually makes more sense being there, since it's related to animation and posing, than it does to have it in the "General properties" for the figure.

    :)

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited October 2012

    I'm planning on getting Cararra burring this special Multipay sale so I can further expand my Genesis experience. But it seems like here that there's still quite a few kinds to work out in that department...

    I haven't even gotten the software yet, but already I'm a bit put off by the supposed lack of smoothing tools and what-not mentioned here. I think it would be a great idea if they took the tools and feature from the programs that they're not supporting anymore, like say, Hexagon and Bryce and put them in Cararra. That way, it would not only join all three demographics into one program, but it would get more people buying Cararra.

    Along with greatly enraging every die-hard Hexagon, Bryce and Cararra fan on the DAZ planet in the process! :)

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    HI RCDeschene
    welcome :)

    I haven’t even gotten the software yet, but already I’m a bit put off by the supposed lack of smoothing tools and what-not mentioned here
    .

    That's understandable,... we sometimes get lost discussing stuff that hasn't happened yet, and the possibilities of what if...

    it's worth bearing in mind that Carrara 8.5 is still in Beta,.. and there's still work to be done on it.

    There's a free 30 day demo version of Carrara 8 at the Carraracafe.com, or at (C-Net) Downloads.com
    Carrara 8 works with poser and Daz3D figures,... but not with genesis.

    Hexagon and Bryce are both still being fully supported (as far as I know). and are useful applications, but Carrara has three modellers and can generate terrains, plants, clouds, particles,etc....so, it already has many of the same abilities as hexagon and Bryce.
    but carrara also works with daz /poser figures, and can animate and render.

    you should try-out the demo of Carrara pro.

    Hope it helps :)

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited October 2012

    3DAGE said:
    HI RCDeschene
    welcome :)

    I haven’t even gotten the software yet, but already I’m a bit put off by the supposed lack of smoothing tools and what-not mentioned here
    .

    That's understandable,... we sometimes get lost discussing stuff that hasn't happened yet, and the possibilities of what if...

    it's worth bearing in mind that Carrara 8.5 is still in Beta,.. and there's still work to be done on it.

    There's a free 30 day demo version of Carrara 8 at the Carraracafe.com, or at (C-Net) Downloads.com
    Carrara 8 works with poser and Daz3D figures,... but not with genesis.

    Hexagon and Bryce are both still being fully supported (as far as I know). and are useful applications, but Carrara has three modellers and can generate terrains, plants, clouds, particles,etc....so, it already has many of the same abilities as hexagon and Bryce.
    but carrara also works with daz /poser figures, and can animate and render.

    you should try-out the demo of Carrara pro.

    Hope it helps :)


    Oh no, I know that. What I meant was, Hexagon and Bryce are no longer receiving software development. DAZ's focuses are just Studio and Cararra now.

    Everything you mentioned is why I'm very much interested in trying it. I'm in dire need of good environments/settings and effects.

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    I go to validate the morph - “An error occurred executing switch” - then “An error occurred executing save” - then “An error occurred executing exit”.

    that’s probably because you’re editing multiple morph areas at the same time,. (switching) morph targets or areas without Validating.

    Not at all - that was the first morph area - still three more to go after that.:)

    I agree with 3dage - there haven't been any changes to the UI to make it more Studio-like - thank goodness!

    No-one should be put off buying Carrara by the comments here - this is Beta testing to find ways of improving Carrara. We could point out even more flaws in Studiio. Carrara is a great application and is about a lot more than dressing up e-dolls:)

    Heaven forbid Daz trying to incorporate Bryce and Hexagon into Carrara - that would be a real mess.

    Certainly, improve Carrara by bringing in some of the functions, but not try to roll them all into one!

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'll argue with you there Roygee there have been changes to make carrara's interface function more like studio's, The one I have pointed out is my main gripe though; moving the 0 pose 0 morph to a submenu in animation. Burying often used tools in a sub menu is very studio like. I also think it was a mistake to put it in animation, I'm not animating I'm 0 the figure. First time I went to 0 a figure I couldn't find it, I thought DAZ had taken it out. I wasn't animating so I didn't think to look for it in animation.

    More over us discussing carrara issues with passion shouldn't deter any one from buying it. It just proves Carrara has a devoted following of people, genuinely concerned about it future.

    Now I don't think carrara needs to have Bryce or Hex injected in to it. It does need better atmospherics, and the modeler and I don't get along. But I have hex for modeling, and good old terragen for making HDRIs.


    But personally I'd rather DAZ have spent this time polishing features and fixing bugs then shoehorning genesis in to carrara. I simply can't afford another money pit figure.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    HI :)

    I'm with you,.. it's just the way that it reads is as if Daz have decided to abandon or drop Hexagon and Bryce,..
    when you say...

    Hexagon and Bryce are no longer receiving software development. DAZ’s focuses are just Studio and Cararra now.

    The reality is that both Hexagon and Bryce were in development cycles, (and open Beta testing) ..then the current development cycle for those products was completed. and the final products were released for sale.

    The next development cycle will see both of those products back in the workshop being improved.
    they're just not in active development right now.

    :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    HI :)
    The next development cycle will see both of those products back in the workshop being improved.
    they're just not in active development right now.

    :)

    Oh you are such an optimist lol

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