Look at my Hair: official thread [Commercial] RELEASED!

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Comments

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 1,591
    edited December 1969

    Sal UK said:
    I thought I'd have a go at a Havoc morph for genesis, I think the fur turned him into a teddy-bear LOL. Yes I only use the standard shaders not real sure about the other ones.

    Can you use Gen X then to use him on genesis?

    He is really high res on his own would be good to use him as a morph on genesis.

    Steve.


    Defiantly not this good old fashioned hard work LOL!

  • Sal UKSal UK Posts: 423
    edited December 1969

    Sal UK said:
    I thought I'd have a go at a Havoc morph for genesis, I think the fur turned him into a teddy-bear LOL. Yes I only use the standard shaders not real sure about the other ones.

    Can you use Gen X then to use him on genesis?

    He is really high res on his own would be good to use him as a morph on genesis.

    Steve.


    Defiantly not this good old fashioned hard work LOL!

    lol ok thanks.. pitty really I thought it was with how quicky you come back with the render and then read your earlier reply.

    Steve.

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,764
    edited December 1969

    *hint gets her wallet hint*

    Maybe you should finish it. I mean, it does look pretty good for something that's work-in-progress, and I would love to have something to replace Havoc & other monsters, since I can't buy the original figures anymore, even if I totally want to.

    *hint hint hint waves a wad of money hint*

    Could do a bonus fur release when Alessandro finishes the plugin. *hint hint hint pulls out more money hint*

    I mean, you ARE "just" one of the rockingest monster morphers along with RawArt and others, doing wonderful things to Genesis like there's no tomorrow. *hint hint hint*

    ------------------------------------------------

    And not to steal Alessandro's thunder...

    My experimentations with Genesis-furrying is going pretty well (if someone wondered why I had gone so silent in this thread, well, now you know). Someone needs to get her butt furred too. I'm not one of the best fur-creators around (that'd be like everyone else involved), I'm more useful in finding unexpected bugs. :lol: But... there you go.

    furrybutt.png
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  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,330
    edited December 1969

    Skiriki said:
    *hint gets her wallet hint*

    Maybe you should finish it. I mean, it does look pretty good for something that's work-in-progress, and I would love to have something to replace Havoc & other monsters, since I can't buy the original figures anymore, even if I totally want to.

    *hint hint hint waves a wad of money hint*

    Could do a bonus fur release when Alessandro finishes the plugin. *hint hint hint pulls out more money hint*

    I mean, you ARE "just" one of the rockingest monster morphers along with RawArt and others, doing wonderful things to Genesis like there's no tomorrow. *hint hint hint*

    ------------------------------------------------

    And not to steal Alessandro's thunder...

    My experimentations with Genesis-furrying is going pretty well (if someone wondered why I had gone so silent in this thread, well, now you know). Someone needs to get her butt furred too. I'm not one of the best fur-creators around (that'd be like everyone else involved), I'm more useful in finding unexpected bugs. :lol: But... there you go.

    OK that is cool. how did you get it to have a tiger pattern?

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,764
    edited December 1969

    OK that is cool. how did you get it to have a tiger pattern?

    It can pick it up from the underlying skin, if you go by default settings. :) It is that easy!

  • Sal UKSal UK Posts: 423
    edited December 1969

    Hi All just thought I would show you how easy it is to produce quick and simple hair from A set of density head/face maps. These Density maps I use to create the base for the render shown here.

    Over the next few days I will post density maps and what hair was created using the sliders to control the hair and the way it looks, you are very welcome to download the the density maps and collect them as when Alex has released Look At My Hair you will have a few density maps to have a mess around with, though they are very easy to create if you use either external or the internal 3D paint.

    Steve.

    shortCurl1.jpg
    800 x 800 - 238K
    NewShortCurlSkinHead.jpg
    512 x 512 - 13K
    NewShortCurlSkinFace.jpg
    512 x 512 - 40K
  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited December 1969

    Thanks very much for sharing the density maps Steve, I'm sure users will certainly appreciate all your efforts and kindness...

  • ragarayragaray Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    When will this be released?

  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited December 1969

    I hope in a few weeks, as all the last bugs are taken care of, and other 2 features currently under development will be final.

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 292
    edited December 1969

    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,480
    edited December 1969

    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

  • ragarayragaray Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I don't care the price, I'm buying it :coolsmile:

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited October 2012

    Mattymanx said:
    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

    It's my understanding that they are both based on using renderman curve primitives. The fibermesh can be done finer but you have a penalty cost in increased polys. If you have a look at Mec4D's original thread you can find out more...

    Add me to the list of people waiting for this...it will go straight into my trolley.

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,886
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Mattymanx said:
    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

    It's my understanding that they are both based on using renderman curve primitives. The fibermesh can be done finer but you have a penalty cost in increased polys. If you have a look at Mec4D's original thread you can find out more...

    Add me to the list of people waiting for this...it will go straight into my trolley.

    Nope. Fibermesh is straight up geometry, not RiCurves as LAMH is using.

    Kendall

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Mattymanx said:
    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

    It's my understanding that they are both based on using renderman curve primitives. The fibermesh can be done finer but you have a penalty cost in increased polys. If you have a look at Mec4D's original thread you can find out more...

    Add me to the list of people waiting for this...it will go straight into my trolley.

    Nope. Fibermesh is straight up geometry, not RiCurves as LAMH is using.

    Kendall

    I thought that it was based on the curves and converted to geometry...but it's likely I got it wrong. Sorry if I did...

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,886
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Pendraia said:
    Mattymanx said:
    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

    It's my understanding that they are both based on using renderman curve primitives. The fibermesh can be done finer but you have a penalty cost in increased polys. If you have a look at Mec4D's original thread you can find out more...

    Add me to the list of people waiting for this...it will go straight into my trolley.

    Nope. Fibermesh is straight up geometry, not RiCurves as LAMH is using.

    Kendall

    I thought that it was based on the curves and converted to geometry...but it's likely I got it wrong. Sorry if I did...

    No problem. According to Pixologic's "About Fibermesh" white paper, zBrush generates standard render engine independent geometry. When you consider that zBrush doesn't use a Renderman Renderer, it makes sense that they wouldn't use a technology from an unsupported software. RiCurves are Renderman internal RiSpec devices.

    Kendall

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Pendraia said:
    Mattymanx said:
    MikeyFTL said:
    Cant wait. I thought fibermesh was going to be the next big thing for hair, but this looks infinitely better as far as ease and resolution. Fibermesh hairs are too thick and unrealistic.

    LAMH uses a capability that excists within 3Delight (if I remember Alessandro's original explination) where as fiber mesh is a mesh and the end user has little contorl over it.

    Thank you Alessandro for all your hard work. I hope this pays off for you big time! :D

    It's my understanding that they are both based on using renderman curve primitives. The fibermesh can be done finer but you have a penalty cost in increased polys. If you have a look at Mec4D's original thread you can find out more...

    Add me to the list of people waiting for this...it will go straight into my trolley.

    Nope. Fibermesh is straight up geometry, not RiCurves as LAMH is using.

    Kendall

    I thought that it was based on the curves and converted to geometry...but it's likely I got it wrong. Sorry if I did...

    No problem. According to Pixologic's "About Fibermesh" white paper, zBrush generates standard render engine independent geometry. When you consider that zBrush doesn't use a Renderman Renderer, it makes sense that they wouldn't use a technology from an unsupported software. RiCurves are Renderman internal RiSpec devices.

    Kendall

    Fair enough...I probably read something and misunderstood it.

  • indi_411fbd3d29indi_411fbd3d29 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited October 2012

    IndigoTea said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

    It can do also that, yes.

    As Kendall explained, the hair styled in LAMH can be used as RenderMan curves (meaning that they can be exported and rendered to Studio as such) or, if you prefer to render in an external application, you can export them as geometry. In this case, LAMH will generate a collection of .obj files and textures, and export even the models currently in the Studio scene.
    To make an example, if you styled some hair for Genesis, upon exporting you'll get the Genesis obj plus all the textures, and the hair obj files plus the hair generated textures (1 obj and 1 texture for each shave group).

    Post edited by Alessandro_AM on
  • indi_411fbd3d29indi_411fbd3d29 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you - there's been so many responses on this thread that I didn't keep up with all of them. Looking forward to this product's release!

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    And what would be the size of the obj and the count of polygons for example ? I suspect it will be not small and you got the same issue as when you export high resolution geometry from Zbrush . Zbrush render the hair so nice as it use sub-d for rendering converting lower polys 2-3 times while rendering of the fibers and simple hair set can extend over 1 million poly very quick and even higher but Zbrush use pixel technology that can handle it very easy that why the company name come from :: Pixologic .::
    Zbrush fiber mesh can be exported as geometry and curve for very fine realistic hair but the size would be huge , it render fine anywhere else but for DS the most realistic look is just to huge that why most users of Maya convert the fibers to splines to avoid the polygons count . it is possible to create the most realistic hair ever as I did this before but as Pen mentioned it will cost you the memory ( in DS only ), that why your plugin is DS friendly and take the advance of the RenderMan curves and I can't wait for the finale , and there should be no comparison as both are total different world and yes everyone try to make the fiber hair as small as possible in size , but that is only to make it DS friendly and not what you actually can do with .
    so Alessandro keep up the great work !

    IndigoTea said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

    It can do also that, yes.

    As Kendall explained, the hair styled in LAMH can be used as RenderMan curves (meaning that they can be exported and rendered to Studio as such) or, if you prefer to render in an external application, you can export them as geometry. In this case, LAMH will generate a collection of .obj files and textures, and export even the models currently in the Studio scene.
    To make an example, if you styled some hair for Genesis, upon exporting you'll get the Genesis obj plus all the textures, and the hair obj files plus the hair generated textures (1 obj and 1 texture for each shave group).

  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited October 2012

    Mec4D said:
    And what would be the size of the obj and the count of polygons for example ? I suspect it will be not small and you got the same issue as when you export high resolution geometry from Zbrush . Zbrush render the hair so nice as it use sub-d for rendering converting lower polys 2-3 times while rendering of the fibers and simple hair set can extend over 1 million poly very quick and even higher but Zbrush use pixel technology that can handle it very easy that why the company name come from :: Pixologic .::
    Zbrush fiber mesh can be exported as geometry and curve for very fine realistic hair but the size would be huge , it render fine anywhere else but for DS the most realistic look is just to huge that why most users of Maya convert the fibers to splines to avoid the polygons count . it is possible to create the most realistic hair ever as I did this before but as Pen mentioned it will cost you the memory ( in DS only ), that why your plugin is DS friendly and take the advance of the RenderMan curves and I can't wait for the finale , and there should be no comparison as both are total different world and yes everyone try to make the fiber hair as small as possible in size , but that is only to make it DS friendly and not what you actually can do with .
    so Alessandro keep up the great work !

    IndigoTea said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

    It can do also that, yes.

    As Kendall explained, the hair styled in LAMH can be used as RenderMan curves (meaning that they can be exported and rendered to Studio as such) or, if you prefer to render in an external application, you can export them as geometry. In this case, LAMH will generate a collection of .obj files and textures, and export even the models currently in the Studio scene.
    To make an example, if you styled some hair for Genesis, upon exporting you'll get the Genesis obj plus all the textures, and the hair obj files plus the hair generated textures (1 obj and 1 texture for each shave group).

    Hi Cath, the size of the exported obj files will be directly proportional to the number of hair and the hair complexity used.
    It is no different from what you'd expect from other applications, meaning that the geometry exported is made of quads and there is no "magic" in it that would allow to squeeze or reduce the size.
    As you mentioned ZBrush fibermesh renders are nice because they do not render the geometry straigth away: the render engine subdivides it making it smoother. But if you export the fiber into .obj then, again, better have a 64bit system with plenty of ram especially if you are going to use a dense fur.

    That is why RenderMan curves are so cool: the render engine handles them similarly to what happens in ZBrush, instead of relying solely on pure geometry.

    However, this doesn't mean that exporting .obj files is a no-go; there are several settings and expedients that allow to setup the exported model properly. When creating an animal fur, for example, a trick is to use larger root and tip widths and reduce the hair count.
    Also, LAMH allows to reduce the hair complexity so that, for example, if each hair is made of 16 quads, you can choose to reduce that by a certain percentage. Consider for instance very short hair or fur, 4 quads maybe sufficient to give the proper detail.

    To give you some numbers, a Genesis hair model made of 120.000 (and so the average human hair count), each made of 16 quads will produce an .obj file of about 200 Mbytes. Such file would require an average about 1.7GB of RAM when rendered...

    Post edited by Alessandro_AM on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,886
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    And what would be the size of the obj and the count of polygons for example ? I suspect it will be not small and you got the same issue as when you export high resolution geometry from Zbrush . Zbrush render the hair so nice as it use sub-d for rendering converting lower polys 2-3 times while rendering of the fibers and simple hair set can extend over 1 million poly very quick and even higher but Zbrush use pixel technology that can handle it very easy that why the company name come from :: Pixologic .::
    Zbrush fiber mesh can be exported as geometry and curve for very fine realistic hair but the size would be huge , it render fine anywhere else but for DS the most realistic look is just to huge that why most users of Maya convert the fibers to splines to avoid the polygons count . it is possible to create the most realistic hair ever as I did this before but as Pen mentioned it will cost you the memory ( in DS only ), that why your plugin is DS friendly and take the advance of the RenderMan curves and I can't wait for the finale , and there should be no comparison as both are total different world and yes everyone try to make the fiber hair as small as possible in size , but that is only to make it DS friendly and not what you actually can do with .
    so Alessandro keep up the great work !

    IndigoTea said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

    It can do also that, yes.

    As Kendall explained, the hair styled in LAMH can be used as RenderMan curves (meaning that they can be exported and rendered to Studio as such) or, if you prefer to render in an external application, you can export them as geometry. In this case, LAMH will generate a collection of .obj files and textures, and export even the models currently in the Studio scene.
    To make an example, if you styled some hair for Genesis, upon exporting you'll get the Genesis obj plus all the textures, and the hair obj files plus the hair generated textures (1 obj and 1 texture for each shave group).

    Hi Cath, the size of the exported obj files will be directly proportional to the number of hair and the hair complexity used.
    It is no different from what you'd expect from other applications, meaning that the geometry exported is made of quads and there is no "magic" in it that would allow to squeeze or reduce the size.
    As you mentioned ZBrush fibermesh renders are nice because they do not render the geometry straigth away: the render engine subdivides it making it smoother. But if you export the fiber into .obj then, again, better have a 64bit system with plenty of ram especially if you are going to use a dense fur.

    That is why RenderMan curves are so cool: the render engine handles them similarly to what happens in ZBrush, instead of relying solely on pure geometry.

    However, this doesn't mean that exporting .obj files is a no-go; there are several settings and expedients that allow to setup the exported model properly. When creating an animal fur, for example, a trick is to use larger root and tip widths and reduce the hair count.
    Also, LAMH allows to reduce the hair complexity so that, for example, if each hair is made of 16 quads, you can choose to reduce that by a certain percentage. Consider for instance very short hair or fur, 4 quads maybe sufficient to give the proper detail.

    To give you some numbers, a Genesis hair model made of 120.000 (and so the average human hair count), each made of 16 quads will produce an .obj file of about 200 Mbytes. Such file would require an average about 1.7GB of RAM when rendered...

    A little trivia on hair, and something to help folks make more realistic hair: redheads have around 90,000 hairs, blondes around 150,000, and brunettes fall in between. (varied sources, see this for starting reference: http://hairfoundation.org/hair-library/article-hair-color.htm)

    Also, healthy humans lose about 50-100 hairs a day, and each follicle is capable of generating ~20 hairs over a lifetime. (references available for those interested) Healthy humans' hair can grow ~12mm/month (about 1/2 inch). Also, hair density will vary by ethnicity and age.

    Kendall

  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited December 1969

    Pity I was never able to find the hair density of some animal furs. That would be very interesting to know...

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,886
    edited December 1969

    Pity I was never able to find the hair density of some animal furs. That would be very interesting to know...

    For a non-deadtree reference: http://www.furminator.com/science-of-fur

    Kendall

  • Alessandro_AMAlessandro_AM Posts: 1,553
    edited December 1969

    Interesting link, thanks.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    I agree , I learned a lot of tricks already and the advantage of Sub-D in DS is another story not to mention generic smooth for making the hair ticker or finer added an extra to the workflow , for me personal it is just fun but I could have a lot more fun in DS with your plugin so i hope it will be done before Christmas :)

    Mec4D said:
    And what would be the size of the obj and the count of polygons for example ? I suspect it will be not small and you got the same issue as when you export high resolution geometry from Zbrush . Zbrush render the hair so nice as it use sub-d for rendering converting lower polys 2-3 times while rendering of the fibers and simple hair set can extend over 1 million poly very quick and even higher but Zbrush use pixel technology that can handle it very easy that why the company name come from :: Pixologic .::
    Zbrush fiber mesh can be exported as geometry and curve for very fine realistic hair but the size would be huge , it render fine anywhere else but for DS the most realistic look is just to huge that why most users of Maya convert the fibers to splines to avoid the polygons count . it is possible to create the most realistic hair ever as I did this before but as Pen mentioned it will cost you the memory ( in DS only ), that why your plugin is DS friendly and take the advance of the RenderMan curves and I can't wait for the finale , and there should be no comparison as both are total different world and yes everyone try to make the fiber hair as small as possible in size , but that is only to make it DS friendly and not what you actually can do with .
    so Alessandro keep up the great work !

    IndigoTea said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I see that LAMH will export as a mesh to render engines like Reality - or did that not work out?

    It can do also that, yes.

    As Kendall explained, the hair styled in LAMH can be used as RenderMan curves (meaning that they can be exported and rendered to Studio as such) or, if you prefer to render in an external application, you can export them as geometry. In this case, LAMH will generate a collection of .obj files and textures, and export even the models currently in the Studio scene.
    To make an example, if you styled some hair for Genesis, upon exporting you'll get the Genesis obj plus all the textures, and the hair obj files plus the hair generated textures (1 obj and 1 texture for each shave group).

    Hi Cath, the size of the exported obj files will be directly proportional to the number of hair and the hair complexity used.
    It is no different from what you'd expect from other applications, meaning that the geometry exported is made of quads and there is no "magic" in it that would allow to squeeze or reduce the size.
    As you mentioned ZBrush fibermesh renders are nice because they do not render the geometry straigth away: the render engine subdivides it making it smoother. But if you export the fiber into .obj then, again, better have a 64bit system with plenty of ram especially if you are going to use a dense fur.

    That is why RenderMan curves are so cool: the render engine handles them similarly to what happens in ZBrush, instead of relying solely on pure geometry.

    However, this doesn't mean that exporting .obj files is a no-go; there are several settings and expedients that allow to setup the exported model properly. When creating an animal fur, for example, a trick is to use larger root and tip widths and reduce the hair count.
    Also, LAMH allows to reduce the hair complexity so that, for example, if each hair is made of 16 quads, you can choose to reduce that by a certain percentage. Consider for instance very short hair or fur, 4 quads maybe sufficient to give the proper detail.

    To give you some numbers, a Genesis hair model made of 120.000 (and so the average human hair count), each made of 16 quads will produce an .obj file of about 200 Mbytes. Such file would require an average about 1.7GB of RAM when rendered...

  • Sal UKSal UK Posts: 423
    edited October 2012

    Density Map Set 2 This is all 1 shave group in which I meant the hair and beard were created in 1 shot, I could have made a seperate shave group for the beard and made it a little thicker in hair thickness and density, I might try that tomorrow with the same density so you can see the difference in the 2 and to show you can do different variations with the same density maps.

    Steve.

    **EDIT**

    Just to add the one With thicker beard from the same maps.

    DensityHairBeard2.jpg
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    DensityHairBeardHEAD.jpg
    512 x 512 - 13K
    NewBeardHair.jpg
    512 x 512 - 150K
    DensityHairBeard1.jpg
    800 x 800 - 256K
    Post edited by Sal UK on
  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 938
    edited December 1969

    That is so cool SalUK ,I've seen guys with hair like that thinning on top .

  • Sal UKSal UK Posts: 423
    edited December 1969

    carrie58 said:
    That is so cool SalUK ,I've seen guys with hair like that thinning on top .

    Thanks Carrie yes me too.. :) Glad I still have my hair the weathers starting to turn cold here now..lol

    I updated the previous post and added a new render of the thicker beard.

    Steve.

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