Creased Edges

RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

I like to make my models as simple as possible with the least amount of POLYS. I think using the smooth tool in HEX and later in Carrara is the best! Now in Carrara you can CREASE line edges if you wish and suing that along with an over all SMOOTH works out pretty good.

But to find out if its gunna work in certain areas I have to EXPORT our of HEX then go into Carrara and go about a long time creasing and smoothing certain edges to see if it's gunna work then go back to HEX and add more geometry if I need then export and edges it all over again???

IS THERE ANY WAY to CREASE EDGES in HEX 2.5????

Comments

  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Try the smoothing break tool found under the surface modeling tab.

    break_smoothing.gif
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  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    NOPE NO JOY! but thanks for the hint

  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, did the tool not work or did you not like the results? What edges are you trying to crease?

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well it seemed to move the geometry somewhat but did NOT CREASE to edge like I would be accustom to. The Phantom has a lot of flowing smooth surfaces BUT there are hard sharp edges such as where the CANOPY area meets the rest of the fuselage. I guess I will have just do it in carrara. BUT I have to admit a long time ago I told myself one day if I can model the F4 Phantom in ANY modeling program THEM I would call my self a professional 3 D Animator/modeler. So far its looking great! I figured if I can make the fuselage the rest would be typical straight forward modeling work!

    Now to be a SUPER Talented Modeler i guess I have to make a Merkava Israeli tank!

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is a free model from one of my hero 3D Modeler! at


    http://www.colacola.se/

    Even he uses high ploy counts and after careful evaluation of HIS F-4 I decided to do my own! His model in an later model with a GUN under the chin and a long stretched nose. I actually thought of modifying his to use but couldn't accept CHEESE!

    I just dont understand the high POLY count some people use IF smoothing is available?

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  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    can you believe thast is a free model! TURBOSQUID would want 300 buck for it

  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hopefully someone with more Hex knowledge can help you with what you want. Only thing I can think of is to add an more edges where you want more of a crease.

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    Well it seemed to move the geometry somewhat but did NOT CREASE to edge like I would be accustom to. The Phantom has a lot of flowing smooth surfaces BUT there are hard sharp edges such as where the CANOPY area meets the rest of the fuselage


    Are the canopy and fuselage all part of the same contiguous mesh? I would think you could solve your problem AND add realism by breaking the canopy glass, canopy frame and fuselage into different groups on the same mesh. Another advantage to doing that is that you can then assign transparency to the canopy glass.

    Post edited by afreaginname on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969


    IS THERE ANY WAY to CREASE EDGES in HEX 2.5????

    The trick I've seen used to get a crease is to highlight the edges you want to stay creased.

    Under vertex modelling is the edge tools

    The third selection will allow you to pull new edges either side of the line.

    When you make the new lines position them closely to the line you want to keep the edge on.

    Hope this helps.

    Pen

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited June 2012

    The closest you are going to get in Hex is chamfer. I don't know of a way to set a crease value by itself.

    Although thinking more about Pen's post, that might be a better way to go.

    Post edited by admkrk on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    admkrk said:
    The closest you are going to get in Hex is chamfer. I don't know of a way to set a crease value by itself.

    Although thinking more about Pen's post, that might be a better way to go.


    Chamfer would probably also work. I have only used it a few times though so can't be sure.

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    Chamfer is equivalent to bevel in most other apps and generally the best way to go if the render isn't going to be in the same app. creases can produce a lot of unwanted artifacts depending on the rendering app and the export format used. Hex can do some strange stuff with chamfer tho also depending on the geometry. Fillet(?) or what ever the op you said is called might work better depending on the mesh.

  • hiker_1hiker_1 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    the way that you have the canopy and fuselage modeled as a single object, i'd go with Pendraia's method to extracting two edges from an existing one.... this will give you a hard edge, but in the case of the edge of the canopy where it meets the fuselage and there is not only a hard edge, but an actual crease between the two, do the edge extraction and then select the original edge (which is now between two others) and scale it down, which will pull it back into a "V" shape... .this will give a hard edge *and* a crease.....

    your phantom is looking great... most of my short air force career was spent in phantom units and some of my most terrifying moments in flight were in the back seat of a F-4!

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Both hardening the edges by adding more geometry, as well as using the break tool have their uses, depending on situation.

    In this PT Boat, I used both - the keel is hardened by extra geometry and the hard line along the hull is by using break - both carry over to Carrara as creased. Didn't want to use extra geometry along the hull because that produced pinching at the ends and the design doesn't allow for the extra geometry going all around the hull.

    Using the break does, however, mean you have to do at least one level of smoothing.

    In your case I would model the canopy separately - lot less hassle.

    Cheers

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  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I am not sure many of you have worked in Carrara and specially the vertex modeler, if you did you would understand what a CREASED line is in it and what I am trying to do in HEX. I know you can add geometry and edges to get a harder CREASE/edge.

    I try to keep my Geometry as simple as possible and with HEX an carrara its fairly easy to within boundaries.

    With the SMOOTHing in both HAX and Carrara there is no reason one cant do that. There area few areas of say this model one has to have more geometry.

    In fact if you can see in image 3 I think that little air inlet scoop near the nose has more geometry than the whole fuselage.

    Take note of have simple the geometry is BUT once SMOOTHED I think is just fine!

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    2.jpg
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    1.jpg
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  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The canopy area and the fuselage are at this time one object! ONCE near done I plan to disassociate them from the fuselage

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    I know Carrara's VM well - which is why I don't use it!

    The thing is, creased edges are a rendering effect - Hex is not a renderer, so doesn't have anything like that - the closest to making creased edges without adding geometry, which also shows up in C as creased, is the break tool.

    Believe me, it is far less hassle just to crease the edges in C, where you can nominate what angle you want it show up as creased.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    I am not sure many of you have worked in Carrara and specially the vertex modeler, if you did you would understand what a CREASED line is in it and what I am trying to do in HEX. I know you can add geometry and edges to get a harder CREASE/edge.

    I know I haven't used Carrara more than once...

    So if creased means something other than a sharp edge, you are right I'm not getting what you are trying to do. Do you have a close-up of the effect you are after? That would perhaps help us to help you better....

    Pen

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    Roygee, explained it better than I could have. Also it illustrates why I said you sometimes get artifacts in different programs, they don't all read the crease value the same.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    That's it exactly - by way of illustration

    In the Hex example, one cube has the break tool applied and the other not - both smoothed to level 2 - same in the Carrara example - see the yellow lines? Those show creasing applied.

    It can be seen as "resistance to smoothing" - the difference being that in Hex you select the level of smoothing to be "resisted" and in Carrara (and other rendering apps) you select the angle of creasing - result exactly the same.

    carcreased.jpg
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    Hexbreak.jpg
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  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,522
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    That's it exactly - by way of illustration

    In the Hex example, one cube has the break tool applied and the other not - both smoothed to level 2 - same in the Carrara example - see the yellow lines? Those show creasing applied.

    It can be seen as "resistance to smoothing" - the difference being that in Hex you select the level of smoothing to be "resisted" and in Carrara (and other rendering apps) you select the angle of creasing - result exactly the same.


    Thanks for the explanation...

    Basically a tool that allows you to keep the edges firm and sharp without adding extra lines...

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for all the advise! I will give alt that a try if my main machine stops being sick!

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I do wish that both HEX and carrara had a creased edge thing which you could assign the amount of creased... Sometimes carrara creased edges are way too sharp! I do have Shaders Plus from DCG to softened them up though but carrara and hex should have something to that effect.

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 211
    edited December 1969

    I do wish that both HEX and carrara had a creased edge thing which you could assign the amount of creased... Sometimes carrara creased edges are way too sharp! I do have Shaders Plus from DCG to softened them up though but carrara and hex should have something to that effect.

    Well Hex has it. It's called the Chamfer tool. You can get as round or sharp edge as you want with it.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    ...and in Carrara it's called "Fillet" - in wooodworking terms this would be "chamfer" or "bevel" -but it does mean adding geometry, which brings us round the full cycle.

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