Who said Blender was hard?

24

Comments

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    RorrKonn said:
    ...When I'm trying to model .hot key a, hot key c ,right click etc etc.
    I never got past it ,I never will.

    I just don't get why Blender makes stuff so complicated.
    It slows me down to the point I just won't use the app...

    I tend to not like a lot of hotkeys as they are usually one more thing to try to memorize, slowing down the learning curve. Blender's hot keys are different though for me. They are very intuitive. R for rotate, S for size, A for select all, shift+a to pop up an 'add' window to add meshes, cameras etc.. They are *so* intuitive that they don't require the typical brain resources other hot keys do. The benefit is that one can hit 'S' for size, immediately followed with x/y/z to constrain the axis while the other hand remains on the mouse and drags... drastically speeding up things from having to relocate the mouse all over the screen to do each action. In short, Blender is the one program that has changed my mind about shortcut keys.

    The faster app's you don't need to hit a,c,right click .you just click on the vertices ,it's faster ,less complicated that way.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,928
    edited December 1969

    RorrKonn said:
    Gedd said:
    RorrKonn said:
    ...When I'm trying to model .hot key a, hot key c ,right click etc etc.
    I never got past it ,I never will.

    I just don't get why Blender makes stuff so complicated.
    It slows me down to the point I just won't use the app...

    I tend to not like a lot of hotkeys as they are usually one more thing to try to memorize, slowing down the learning curve. Blender's hot keys are different though for me. They are very intuitive. R for rotate, S for size, A for select all, shift+a to pop up an 'add' window to add meshes, cameras etc.. They are *so* intuitive that they don't require the typical brain resources other hot keys do. The benefit is that one can hit 'S' for size, immediately followed with x/y/z to constrain the axis while the other hand remains on the mouse and drags... drastically speeding up things from having to relocate the mouse all over the screen to do each action. In short, Blender is the one program that has changed my mind about shortcut keys.

    The faster app's you don't need to hit a,c,right click .you just click on the vertices ,it's faster ,less complicated that way.

    It's back to basic philosophy...Blender was originally designed to be keyboard driven, not mouse driven (or graphics tablet).

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
    edited October 2012

    mjc1016 said:
    RorrKonn said:
    Gedd said:
    RorrKonn said:
    ...When I'm trying to model .hot key a, hot key c ,right click etc etc.
    I never got past it ,I never will.

    I just don't get why Blender makes stuff so complicated.
    It slows me down to the point I just won't use the app...

    I tend to not like a lot of hotkeys as they are usually one more thing to try to memorize, slowing down the learning curve. Blender's hot keys are different though for me. They are very intuitive. R for rotate, S for size, A for select all, shift+a to pop up an 'add' window to add meshes, cameras etc.. They are *so* intuitive that they don't require the typical brain resources other hot keys do. The benefit is that one can hit 'S' for size, immediately followed with x/y/z to constrain the axis while the other hand remains on the mouse and drags... drastically speeding up things from having to relocate the mouse all over the screen to do each action. In short, Blender is the one program that has changed my mind about shortcut keys.

    The faster app's you don't need to hit a,c,right click .you just click on the vertices ,it's faster ,less complicated that way.

    It's back to basic philosophy...Blender was originally designed to be keyboard driven, not mouse driven (or graphics tablet).

    I'm explaining this wrong ,let me try again.
    LW ,Softimage are hotkey driven.Blender ,LW ,Softimage fells a lot a like to me.
    trueSpace ,C4D have icons but you can use hotkeys.C4D has a LW UI so you can make C4D look and work like LW.

    lets fore get about the hot keys.mouse or wacom.
    the faster app's it's less steps to select a vertice.

    Post edited by RorrKonn on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited October 2012

    I've said steep learning curve, too. :-D A shortcut-based interface is very powerful but also vastly counterintuitive, as it has to be learned by memorization and you can't just look for the right button on a toolbar.


    I have 2.49b 32 bit (for great scripts that were never updated), 2.49b 64 bit (for faster versions of those scripts that were updated to 64 bit but not to the 2.5+ series), and 2.63 64 bit for my everyday workflow. All of my products are made in the new series for many months now. Blender's ability to have versions installed in parallel without forcing you to uninstall old ones is one of its great features - if something is deprecated and never replaced, you can port objs back and forth between versions to use it still.


    If you use 2.49b, it's really worth at least adding 2.6+ to your workflows, because it's so much faster and better optimized. I also hate UI changes, but almost all the shortcuts still work; the biggest wrench for me was the switch from b and b,b for bounding box and circle to b for box and c for circle. And the sculpting alone is just fantastic in how much it's improved. I use it on every product now where it was barely practical to use at all in the old one. I feel cloth sim is still pretty flawed, but it has its uses and that hasn't changed.


    Not only that, but you can easily create your own import, export, and sim presets with 2.5+, which is invaluable if (for instance) you know you're going to be exporting the same mesh five times in an hour as you check and adjust geometry before rigging.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,069
    edited October 2012

    I downloaded this shortcut key map a while back that others may find useful  -->
    http://www.katsbits.com/files/blender/katsbits-blender-shortcut-chart.png

    This is the page where I found the link  --> http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/useful-keyboard-shortcuts.php

    They also have a link for it as a PDF. There's also a blank one if you want to create your own map, though I can't imagine anyone doing that unless they weren't using an English language QWERTY keyboard.  -->
    http://www.katsbits.com/files/blender/katsbits-blender-shortcut-chart_BLANK.png

    Post edited by Miss B on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,171
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    RorrKonn said:
    Gedd said:
    RorrKonn said:
    ...When I'm trying to model .hot key a, hot key c ,right click etc etc.
    I never got past it ,I never will.

    I just don't get why Blender makes stuff so complicated.
    It slows me down to the point I just won't use the app...

    I tend to not like a lot of hotkeys as they are usually one more thing to try to memorize, slowing down the learning curve. Blender's hot keys are different though for me. They are very intuitive. R for rotate, S for size, A for select all, shift+a to pop up an 'add' window to add meshes, cameras etc.. They are *so* intuitive that they don't require the typical brain resources other hot keys do. The benefit is that one can hit 'S' for size, immediately followed with x/y/z to constrain the axis while the other hand remains on the mouse and drags... drastically speeding up things from having to relocate the mouse all over the screen to do each action. In short, Blender is the one program that has changed my mind about shortcut keys.

    The faster app's you don't need to hit a,c,right click .you just click on the vertices ,it's faster ,less complicated that way.

    It's back to basic philosophy...Blender was originally designed to be keyboard driven, not mouse driven (or graphics tablet).


    ...which is why I like it. I come from the days when a "mouse" was known only as a household pest or a critter they used in labs to test drugs on. I really hate how so many apps like the MS Office ones have become so mouse dependent. I find having to take my hands away from the keyboard actually interferes with my workflow.

    Yeah 3DS, C4D & such are slicker and have more features, but that's why people pay the big zlotys for them. Blender comes pretty darn close though, close enough for my needs.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited October 2012

    Personally I believe it was designed for one hand on the keyboard and another on the mouse or tablet, which is the most efficient way to work if they shortcuts are intuitive enough. Watching any good speed time lapses in Blender and that's what they are doing. People will often have keyboard keys showing onscreen (a setting in blender) so people can keep track of what they are doing because they are constantly using keyboard synchronized with mouse/tablet where other packages they are popping up menus. In this example he didn't have keyboard keys showing unfortunately, but it's still a cool time lapse :)

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,928
    edited December 1969

    I did a search through all my old backups...and the first time I downloaded Blender was back in 2002. I found it on the Nov-Dec disk. Blender was released to the public in Oct of 2002. I didn't think it was strange, back then, that you could work in it without even having to have a scrollwheel mouse. The interface was different...but usable. It's come along way in the past ten years. It's going to be 10 on the 13th...

  • zug22zug22 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Personally, I think Blender rocks: the only alternatives are madly expensive or worse still, are clunky and expensive. Blender is also the only decent 3D program for Mac people like me unless (once again) you have thousands to fork out and weeks to learn another weird and illogical interface. In Blender, the X key means X axis and so on. It may seem crazy, but some other pricey 3D apps don't even do that.
    I can't say i like all the ongoing changes but I am happy that the latest version now has a good knife tool (it was missing from 2.5 series) - I just wish it were not so time consuming to model and rig - which is where DAZ is great. I find they make a good combo.

    Anyone needs hints or help with using Blender, I might be able to assist. I have been using it since 2.4 although I would not claim to be an "expert" (whatever that is)

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    1998 softimage was $20,000 Max 2 or 3 was $3,000 ,LW 2 or 3 $2,000.
    LW 7 was only a $1000.
    Now Max owns Softimage.& Maya.
    Part of LW left and made Modo.

    At one time Blender was sold ,no one boult it so they made it free..
    Same with truespace but Microsoft abounded trueSpace.

    2012 All main CGI app's are still in the stone age.
    Model 100% quad rule Most ridiculous rule ever made.
    Modeling App's don't support nGones.
    I could go on & on but I'll stop here.

    Maybe if society makes it to 3012.
    CGI will get there.

    But for now I'm not impressed with any of them.
    They all have major flaws no matter the cost.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited December 1969

    Blender supports ngons...

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Blender supports ngons...

    Isn't that new since the Big Update that started with 2.5, though? It used to be you would get an error message if you created, say, a line pentagon and tried to F-key fill it.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited October 2012

    believe part of bmesh, 2.62/2.63? But yes it's new, and I'm guessing if one exports to renderer it might quad/tri, but that wouldn't be Blender but the render engine that wouldn't support ngons at that point.

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    believe part of bmesh, 2.62/2.63? But yes it's new.

    That's it!

    Bmesh brought in a lot of goodies with it.

  • zug22zug22 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    You are right on Gedd - and just for the heck of it, I imported models with ngons into DAZ4 Pro and they worked just fine despite a report here in the forums that it would not work. I found that later ! :)

    Personally, ngons in Blender saved me a heck of a lot of mucking around and thousands of verts.

    As for faults? show me any software without bugs. ANY software.
    It's more about the type and severity of the bugs - Blender I think is relatively good that way, but then it is so big that I have not tried all of the functions/toolsets out.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited December 1969

    import ai, extrude, bevel etc... instant object ;p

  • Fuzzy GnomeFuzzy Gnome Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RorrKonn said:

    I'm explaining this wrong ,let me try again.
    LW ,Softimage are hotkey driven.Blender ,LW ,Softimage fells a lot a like to me.
    trueSpace ,C4D have icons but you can use hotkeys.C4D has a LW UI so you can make C4D look and work like LW.

    lets fore get about the hot keys.mouse or wacom.
    the faster app's it's less steps to select a vertice.


    In Blender you can right-click a vertex to select it, or shift+right click to add or remove it from the selection.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,928
    edited December 1969

    RorrKonn said:

    I'm explaining this wrong ,let me try again.
    LW ,Softimage are hotkey driven.Blender ,LW ,Softimage fells a lot a like to me.
    trueSpace ,C4D have icons but you can use hotkeys.C4D has a LW UI so you can make C4D look and work like LW.

    lets fore get about the hot keys.mouse or wacom.
    the faster app's it's less steps to select a vertice.


    In Blender you can right-click a vertex to select it, or shift+right click to add or remove it from the selection.

    Or 'C' and circle select...or 'B' and box select...and click a little icon at the bottom to switch between vertex-edge-face...

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited October 2012

    I tell you what, it was a gleeful day when I found out the edge select and other selection tools work in the UV window as well.


    Also, digression, but the improved syncing between UV/3d window? Bliss.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,585
    edited December 1969

    I have a question... When Blender starts up for the first time there is a cube drawn out for you. OK that's fine... OK 2 questions... How to divide up the faces to the point where using the molding tools will work to actually change the shape? My main question is what is that funny little circle that if you click somewhere in the scene it relocate to that location? I don't get why that's so important to have that visible in the scene. I click directly on the cube I can move it all over the place or using the XYX widget arrows to move it around with more precision. Thanks folks! :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,585
    edited December 1969

    Would love a copy of that short cut chart Miss B but the links all tell me "Sorry....."

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    Not talking about D/S Pro ,it's not a modeling App.
    Genesis was modeled in Modo.
    Genesis is 100% quads ,polycount around 18,872.
    Genesis is made to work in any app.
    Genesis is one of the best Character Meshes ever made.

    I'm talking about Blender,Max,Maya,Softimage,C4D,LW, etc etc.
    They all could be so much more.

  • zug22zug22 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RAMwolf:
    select the cube and type "W" which will give you a menu with "subdivide" and confirm with enter - which will do as it says- do that a few times to get it fine enough for your needs.
    As for the 3D cursor (that funny thing like a ring) - it acts as a center for things like rotation and spin extrusion. It's actually very useful when you get into things. Say you want curve a pipe around a corner: find the center of the corner, put the 3D cursor there using Shift- S, 3 then select your pipe, tab into edit mode and postion the end even with the cursor and press the spin button: bingo, a neat pipe bend.
    Of course I have missed out every detail of the operation here but the point is that the cursor is essential for modelling.

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 386
    edited October 2012

    Yeah, RAMWolff, the 3D cursor is a pain in my azz, and I wish I could just turn it off completely (until I ever need it).

    Others swear by it, and as you can see by zug22's post, it does have significant usage. I, personally, just don't model that way, nor, as zug22 has illustrated, have I seen a dedicated workflow from A to Z presented that would convince me to ever use it. Maybe someday.


    Here is a hotkey map that I use for 2.5 (+) series from KatBits:

    http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/useful-keyboard-shortcuts.php

    And one with both Object Mode, and Edit Mode more detailed:

    http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79595&sid=336811e794b1a533ecbc5e35cd0a982b

    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,585
    edited December 1969

    Thank you both so much for your help. Downloaded the hotkey map for safe keeping. Will try the sub divide thing later on. Just home from work. I need a doobie and my shoes off first! :P

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited October 2012

    That cursor also defines where the next object will be created. It allows one to place objects, pivot points, etc precisely in ways that would be harder without it once one gets the hang of how it works.

    One example is in this video about the Curve Modifier.

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,069
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Would love a copy of that short cut chart Miss B but the links all tell me "Sorry....."

    Sorry Richard, that's why I also included a link to the page where I found that image. :red:

    I see that DaremoK3 also linked to it, and you were able to save it. :)

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,069
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:
    And one with both Object Mode, and Edit Mode more detailed:

    http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79595&sid=336811e794b1a533ecbc5e35cd0a982b


    Now that's a very useful map. I also liked the second link in that thread with the list of hotkeys and shortcuts. I used it to update the list I already have. I'm always adding to it as I "discover" something new. ;-)

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,474
    edited October 2012

    Just for your amusement. :-)

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,928
    edited December 1969

    A tool that powerful...and THAT'S what they come up with?

    Kind of like using a shotgun to kill a spider...

    (looks good, though)

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