What’s up with .duf?

LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,842
edited September 2012 in The Commons

I just purchased the Heart of the Labyrinth scene
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/heart-of-the-labyrinth
and installed both PC download files (Poser and DS).

I run DAZ Studio 3.1.2.32 under Windows7-Pro 64-bit

When I search for new content it finds the Poser ".cr2" file and the Poser light ".lt2" file
C:\Users\\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio3\content\Runtime\Libraries\Character\Muze\HTLabyrinth

but doesn't find the DAZ Studio format ".duf" files for the same product.
C:\Users\\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio3\content\Props\Muze\HTLabyrinth

I can live with the Poser .cr2 file but the Poser lights are WAY to bright. :-(

Are all new Studio products going to be incompatible with Studio3?
Can the ".duf" files be converted to older format files compatible with Studio3?

Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
«13

Comments

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,348
    edited December 1969

    DS3 cannot open DUF files, even DS4 before the 4.5 release cannot open them, so this item is probably intended for DS 4.5 or higher.

    There are a few items like that in the store now.

  • Ken GillilandKen Gilliland Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    Are all new Studio products going to be incompatible with Studio3?
    Can the ".duf" files be converted to older format files compatible with Studio3?

    .duf is the new format for pretty much everything in the latest version of DAZ Studio (4.5) and looks like that is the future for all DAZ native content. I think most of the content providers are using it. It is not compatible with earlier version of Studio.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,842
    edited September 2012

    I was afraid of that. Sigh :-(

    I really really really don't like Studio4 and really really love Studio3. I have a large library already and haven't been buying many items recently especially Genesis related stuff but I figured props and architecture would continue to be backward compatible. I guess that's not in the cards. :-(

    Well, there's one upside to this. I don't buy from other stores unless they support DAZ formats so I'll be saving money by not buying any new items. And I will be asking for a refund from DAZ.

    I feel like I and other Studio3 afficionados are standing on a rug at the edge of a cliff and DAZ is yanking it while yelling "Fly, you fools, fly!"

    I'm going to crawl into my hole, pull the rock over me and play with my existing toys.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    You can have both 4.5 and 3 installed without conflict. Load the .duf files into 4.5 and use File>Save as>Deprecated>Material Preset to save the materials in .dsa format, then apply those to the Poser items in DS3.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited December 1969

    DS3 cannot open DUF files, even DS4 before the 4.5 release cannot open them, so this item is probably intended for DS 4.5 or higher.

    There are a few items like that in the store now.

    Yes, this. They do mention that they are only compatible with DS4.5 on the product page though. (well, the ones I've seen anyway)

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 3,416
    edited December 1969

    They do mention that they are only compatible with DS4.5 on the product page though. (well, the ones I've seen anyway)

    Not all of them. I've bought a few things recently — at least a couple from before 4.5 was out of beta, which is not what I would consider a good idea — which had 4.5-only files with no mention of this in the product page. I was holding off on installing 4.5 until I was sure there wouldn't be an immediate bugfix update.

    I'm in the same boat as LeatherGryphon, although for different reasons. I have 4.5 installed, and I'm trying to get to grips with it, but I just plain don't like some of the directions it's taken. I've said all along I consider the UI to be several steps backwards from the D|S3 Classic I'm familar with and can use quickly and easily. Some parts I feel are crude and clunky, some just work differently for no readily apparent good reason.

    The main reason why I won't be abandoning D|S3 yet, though, is that many of my figures I'm developing will not work in 4.5 — in particular some adapted A3 and H3 figures, with geometry switching in the legs. The D|S3 scenes I've saved cause 4.5 to crash instantly to desktop with a cryptic error in the log. Loading the original Poser figures will allow the geometry switching to work, but I've developed these figures over several years and I can't remember everything I've done to them. Some things involved saving as a Poser .cr2 and I don't even have that installed any more. (BTW, yes, the figures are Melody and Micah, with the Kasa digitigrade legs, Capsces morphs and a few other tweaks.)

    I'd love to try adapting my current D|S3 figures to D|S4.5, but until they actually work, there's no way I could consider it.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,842
    edited December 1969

    You can have both 4.5 and 3 installed without conflict. Load the .duf files into 4.5 and use File>Save as>Deprecated>Material Preset to save the materials in .dsa format, then apply those to the Poser items in DS3.

    I have Studio4 on a separate machine but I guess I could try that technique. Thank you.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 60
    edited September 2012

    I was afraid of that. Sigh :-(

    I really really really don't like Studio4 and really really love Studio3. I have a large library already and haven't been buying many items recently especially Genesis related stuff but I figured props and architecture would continue to be backward compatible. I guess that's not in the cards. :-(

    Well, there's one upside to this. I don't buy from other stores unless they support DAZ formats so I'll be saving money by not buying any new items. And I will be asking for a refund from DAZ.

    I feel like I and other Studio3 afficionados are standing on a rug at the edge of a cliff and DAZ is yanking it while yelling "Fly, you fools, fly!"

    I'm going to crawl into my hole, pull the rock over me and play with my existing toys.

    Well, its a lot like the game console market. Eventually your favorite console is going to be abandoned in favor of something newer.
    Perhaps a better example would be when Windows 95 gained more steam, less and less programs and games were made for Dos.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,842
    edited September 2012

    vrba79 said:
    I was afraid of that. Sigh :-(

    I really really really don't like Studio4 and really really love Studio3. I have a large library already and haven't been buying many items recently especially Genesis related stuff but I figured props and architecture would continue to be backward compatible. I guess that's not in the cards. :-(

    Well, there's one upside to this. I don't buy from other stores unless they support DAZ formats so I'll be saving money by not buying any new items. And I will be asking for a refund from DAZ.

    I feel like I and other Studio3 afficionados are standing on a rug at the edge of a cliff and DAZ is yanking it while yelling "Fly, you fools, fly!"

    I'm going to crawl into my hole, pull the rock over me and play with my existing toys.

    Well, its a lot like the game console market. Eventually your favorite console is going to be abandoned in favor of something newer.
    Perhaps a better example would be when Windows 95 gained more steam, less and less programs and games were made for Dos.

    What!!! you mean I'm going to have upgrade to Windows95! Ohhh noooooo....

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Kodiak3DKodiak3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm still angry that DAZ doesn't support DOS. :-)

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,241
    edited December 1969

    Kodiak3D said:
    I'm still angry that DAZ doesn't support DOS. :-)

    I think DAZ 3D has had quite enough DOS the last few days.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,123
    edited September 2012

    ...I was afraid of this. Genesis stuff, that's fine, I can live with out that, but, props, that's another thing.

    Not only are Poser lights too bright, but all the shaders need tweaking to look proper in the final render as well.

    I agree with the "rug on the cliff" analogy.

    The only thing that still makes my annual PC membership worth something anymore is the 1.99$ stuff Jack keeps releasing and the occasional cool old car.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,075
    edited December 1969

    Why switch to .DUF files? What was wrong with the way things were before?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,123
    edited December 1969

    ...other than a means of getting everyone to abandon older forms of the application for 4.5, I've been wondering the same thing myself.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,241
    edited December 1969

    .duf is plain text and can be edited in a text editor, .daz is binary and cannot be edited in anything
    .duf will automatically recreate Data folder files from the Poser versions if the Data files are missing
    .duf files can be opened in earlier versions (starting with DS 4.5), .daz files never could
    .duf uses a standardized, documented architecture based on JSON, .daz format is a mystery

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    Some pretty good reasons :)

  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,075
    edited December 1969

    Indeed. Thank you. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,123
    edited December 1969

    ...unless one is into scripting, the editing function is pretty much useless.

    ....duf files cannot be read by any version of Studio prior to 4.5. (not even 4.0.x).

    ....daz format is readable by all older versions of the application from 3.1.x back. Granted one can't open a scene created in 3.1.x in 2.3.3, but why would one want to anyway?

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    I hand edit files all the time

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,123
    edited December 1969

    ...I don't, as I burned out on programming years ago.

    The whole attraction of Daz Studio for me was that it approached the subject from the artist's rather than technician's perspective.

  • MarkR151MarkR151 Posts: 78
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...unless one is into scripting, the editing function is pretty much useless.

    ....duf files cannot be read by any version of Studio prior to 4.5. (not even 4.0.x).

    ....daz format is readable by all older versions of the application from 3.1.x back. Granted one can't open a scene created in 3.1.x in 2.3.3, but why would one want to anyway?

    And that Kyoto Kid is why I'm sticking with DS 4.0 for the foreseeable future. I don't trust duf files and suspect that we're going to be forced into adopting something we won't be able to use our current DAZ Scene files with in the future.

    Will I be able to use my files created in DS4.0 in a future version of DS like 5.0? Or will I have to start all over again recreating my V4s from the ground up in a future version? I hope not because I sure would resent it.

    That would be like Adobe creating a new version of Photoshop that could not read any Tif, Jpeg or Psd created before the introduction of that particular Photoshop version.

    "Sorry photographers, we here at Adobe have decided that with the new Photoshop CS7, you will not be able to open any graphics file created before 2014. Tif, Jpeg, PSD and your camera's Raw files are obsolete and we're now introducing the new proprietary 'DNG 2014', which is the only file format compatible. So for opening all your archived files pre-CS7 you're SOL, but we're sure you won't mind."

  • MarkR151MarkR151 Posts: 78
    edited December 1969

    I really like your Wonder Woman, Knight 22179.

  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,075
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, Mark. :)

    And you can still open your scene files from D/S4 Pro with 4.5. I upgraded and so far I've had no problems in that area.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,241
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...unless one is into scripting, the editing function is pretty much useless.

    ...or there's a path error, or one item in the scene isn't working and it makes the whole scene not load.


    ....duf files cannot be read by any version of Studio prior to 4.5. (not even 4.0.x).

    ....daz format is readable by all older versions of the application from 3.1.x back. Granted one can't open a scene created in 3.1.x in 2.3.3, but why would one want to anyway?

    You never had a problem with having to upgrade from 3.1.1.73 to 3.1.1.74 because that's the version the PA used, when something else you use won't work in 3.1.1.74? Or not being able to use something because you're in the middle of a project and can't risk installing a newer version? Or just don't have the time to download hundreds of MB's every time there's an update?

  • MJ007MJ007 Posts: 988
    edited December 1969

    As im still a DS2 user, i guess this is something i need to start paying attention to. So does this mean with these .duf files in older versions of DS will not load these props? I almost use my own lights anyway, so thats not "that" big a deal. I would like to know EXACTLY how this effects me.

    Thanks!

    -MJ

  • MarkR151MarkR151 Posts: 78
    edited September 2012

    To Knight22179:

    You're welcome on WW. :)


    But my worry about future DS versions like the eventual 5.0 perhaps next year is will they open all our existing DAZ Scene files or force us to adopt Duf exclusively?

    It's good that 4.5 will, but I worry about where they'll be going beyond that

    Post edited by MarkR151 on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,241
    edited December 1969

    MarkR151 said:

    Will I be able to use my files created in DS4.0 in a future version of DS like 5.0? Or will I have to start all over again recreating my V4s from the ground up in a future version? I hope not because I sure would resent it.

    .ds files from before DS3 (which introduced .dsa files) still work in DS4.5, even ones made in DS1. The only previous DS-format files that don't work in DS4.5 are, surprise, .daz files from the early days of DS, which won't work in DS3 either.

  • MarkR151MarkR151 Posts: 78
    edited December 1969

    MarkR151 said:

    Will I be able to use my files created in DS4.0 in a future version of DS like 5.0? Or will I have to start all over again recreating my V4s from the ground up in a future version? I hope not because I sure would resent it.

    .ds files from before DS3 (which introduced .dsa files) still work in DS4.5, even ones made in DS1. The only previous DS-format files that don't work in DS4.5 are, surprise, .daz files from the early days of DS, which won't work in DS3 either.


    I hope they'll work in the eventual DS 5.0 too.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    I believe another one of the reasons DUF was created was to make distribution easier. E.g., if I create a scene and save it as a .duf, I can send that to anyone, and not violate copyright because the .duf only contains references to the original content. Whereas .daz files may include some of the original content in them, and thus you're distributing geometry/etc that you shouldn't be.

    Granted, most people probably don't share their scene files, so this may not be a big selling point for them.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,241
    edited December 1969

    MJ007 said:
    As im still a DS2 user, i guess this is something i need to start paying attention to. So does this mean with these .duf files in older versions of DS will not load these props? I almost use my own lights anyway, so thats not "that" big a deal. I would like to know EXACTLY how this effects me.

    Thanks!

    -MJ

    Since DS2 can't load .daz files or scripts created in DS3, you wouldn't have been able to load them anyway. Are there PAs still providing DS2 versions of products?

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