RAMWorks Tutorials: PP2 and HR2 to figure & Painting Genesis in ZBrush

2

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,272
    edited December 1969

    Well, I haven't gotten around to getting the 'extra' packages...yet. So I decided to play with what I already had and see if it worked.

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 823
    edited December 1969

    Bookmark because this looks very interesting and I'm going to digest it post by post this weekend.

    Thanks RAM.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,272
    edited December 1969

    Here's a shot of the RavenMohawk (an RDNA freebie) with a V4 fit then converted...

    ravmofit.jpg
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  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 784
    edited December 1969

    gilikshe said:
    barbult said:
    Thanks for such detailed instructions. That is what I need to learn these tools. I was able to fit the hair and save the DUF just fine and the morphs work, but the PZ2 material presets for hair color do not work. Any suggestions?

    Load original hair. Apply pz2. Save as material preset. This material works fine with converted hair.


    Poser Pose Mat declaration for hair-props and hair-figure are differents.

    For hair *.hr2:


    {
    version
    {
    number 4.01
    }
    prop figureHair
    {


    For hair *.cr2:


    {
    version
    {
    number 4.01
    }
    figure
    {


    I suppose because this, some *.pz2 mats doesn't work with hair converted to DS4 figure. Changing "prop figurehair" by "figure" its a permanent solution.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    That's interesting. Good to know. I have all the shapes with their fitting templates so never thought to do it that way.

    Richard: just wondering: have you tried this on several of the AprilYSH or the Neftis hairs? I'm getting a failure rate of about 50% on both of them (though, to be fair, I haven't tried a huge number of either). This happened both with 4.0 and now with 4.5.

    As far as I can tell, the difference seems to be how the hair comes into the scene, how the parenting coordinates are getting misinterpreted. If the hair comes into the scene in the middle of the character's head, all seems to go well. If it comes in above Genesis' head, that's where it's going to stay. I've tried using different character clones, which sometimes helps. (One thing I've discovered: if it says it has fits for Victoria and Michael both, never ever EVER use the Michael clone, because he came later, so his fit is an afterthought.)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited September 2012

    Not converted too many of April's or Neffies hairs. I converted April's Lyon Hair pack. The hair is an HR2 and converted just fine. Neffs I have done Billyhawk and Wildmane only so far. I think Wildmane was converted for DS for Genesis way back when it was first debuted but there were no movement morphs so converting my way retained all those! :P

    I have converted quite a few of SAV's hair sets though as I love Jo's work > Boris Hair, Electra Hair, Kouros Hair, Sissy LeBo Hair, Sparticus Hair and I see Eros Short Hair but there is no png for it so I think it was one of the earlier attempts so not sure if it works or not.

    Converted Valea's Midnight Prince and Rose Curls but not sure if they are cr2's or hr2's it's hard to remember at this point.

    Some hair does convert better than others. Some get a kink right at the shoulder/neck area. Some times you can remove bones and that puts it right but you need to be careful which bones you remove or the hair will literally fall apart and turn into a strange shape ... kinda like Cousin It on acid. LMAO

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited September 2012

    Turns out the SAV Eros Short Hair was an unfinished conversion.... It's now ready fully for use!

    What I REALLY like about DAZ Studio is that you can easily create new folders for morphs so rather than having them all in one folder you just go up to the Parameter settings for each morph. Type in the new path name in the path line, 3rd one down iirc, click accept and the morph's path is transferred into the new sub category. Go through and add all you want one by one. Be nice to have multi select and edit but perhaps in some other version of DS this will happen.

    The Eros hair for M4 was part of the whole "True Blood" character kick Jo was on for a while. This looks like Eric's short hair style he wore for a while. What I love about SAV's work is that she really gets in there with fine detail. Her newest hair at 'Rosity is for M4 and Genesis and look at the detail, it's amazing, right down to the fine hairs at the roots in the front. That's totally cool with me, my being a hairdresser and all.

    ErosShortHair.jpg
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    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited September 2012

    RAMWolff said:
    Not converted too many of April's or Neffies hairs. I converted April's Lyon Hair pack. The hair is an HR2 and converted just fine. Neffs I have done Billyhawk and Wildmane only so far. I think Wildmane was converted for DS for Genesis way back when it was first debuted but there were no movement morphs so converting my way retained all those! :P

    What sorts of movement morphs does the other Wildmane have that the Genesis version doesn't? I never considered getting that one, since it came with Genesis.

    Of the April hairs, so far, Caleb, Harlow, Ivandri and Ysaris all converted with no problems. Vayne Braid sort of converted, but then all of its movement morphs went inactive when it was fitted; they were still there, they just didn't do anything. (It was a CR2 hair, which probably explains that a little.) Cuffed Tail 2, Jai, Horsetail, Mitch, and Glyn all failed outright. Glyn failed kind of spectacularly; I tried everything, all the clones including K4, short and long hair, whatever, and basically all it achieved was various heights floating above the character's head. That one makes me a little sad; it's my go-to for long floppy hair for guys. But it's not as though it's unusable otherwise.

    I have converted quite a few of SAV's hair sets though as I love Jo's work > Boris Hair, Electra Hair, Kouros Hair, Sissy LeBo Hair, Sparticus Hair and I see Eros Short Hair but there is no png for it so I think it was one of the earlier attempts so not sure if it works or not.

    Converted Valea's Midnight Prince and Rose Curls but not sure if they are cr2's or hr2's it's hard to remember at this point.

    Some hair does convert better than others. Some get a kink right at the shoulder/neck area. Some times you can remove bones and that puts it right but you need to be careful which bones you remove or the hair will literally fall apart and turn into a strange shape ... kinda like Cousin It on acid. LMAO

    I did both Spartacos short and long hair without any problem, and also SAV Sonia, although that one got the kink in the shoulder that you mentioned. Eros I don't have, but from the looks of it, I might get it later. Oh, and SAV Dante without any problems -- although until I ran into it when I was looking for the Sonia prop, I'd completely forgotten I had it. Something for your blond guy going bald -- and only for your blond guy, although it takes diffuse changes well enough. (Oh ... and Dante's eyebrows, of all possible things. Which also convert well and also take diffuse changes well.)

    Cesar Hair by Raiya came through without a problem, which makes me very happy since it's the one short male hair I use all the time.

    For Neftis hairs so far, it's looking like the early problems I was having may have been due to trying this in 4.0, where they all failed. Under 4.5 so far, they're all doing pretty good. BillyHawk M4 (the refit, not the original, which fails spectacularly), Corey Spikes, Goya, Marios and Mature Mark by Neftis came through without an issue. (Goya looks very strange when you put it through the joint editor.) Ricardi M4 -- again, the refit -- sort of worked, but gained a lot of volume in the process somehow. Seriously, that's some big BIG hair; in order to look sort of normal, after transfer and saving, you have to use the included morph to reduce the volume about 300%, and the included Ricardi M4 morph to reduce the scale. I just wish more of her hair had Daz mats, but such is life.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,272
    edited December 1969

    vwrangler said:
    Of the April hairs, so far, Caleb, Harlow, Ivandri and Ysaris all converted with no problems. Vayne Braid sort of converted, but then all of its movement morphs went inactive when it was fitted; they were still there, they just didn't do anything. (It was a CR2 hair, which probably explains that a little.) Cuffed Tail 2, Jai, Horsetail, Mitch, and Glyn all failed outright. Glyn failed kind of spectacularly; I tried everything, all the clones including K4, short and long hair, whatever, and basically all it achieved was various heights floating above the character's head. That one makes me a little sad; it's my go-to for long floppy hair for guys. But it's not as though it's unusable otherwise..

    I converted Horsetail without any problems...

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    I converted Horsetail without any problems...

    Which clone did you use to make the transfer?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,272
    edited December 1969

    vwrangler said:
    mjc1016 said:
    I converted Horsetail without any problems...

    Which clone did you use to make the transfer?

    Used the V4 fit, with V4 clone and short hair for the template.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited September 2012

    mjc1016 said:
    vwrangler said:
    mjc1016 said:
    I converted Horsetail without any problems...

    Which clone did you use to make the transfer?

    Used the V4 fit, with V4 clone and short hair for the template.

    Oh, OK. It would never have occurred to me to use one of the fit poses, or to transfer the horsetail as short hair. That worked perfectly.

    And, it turns out, doing more or less the same thing with Glyn Hair worked for it as well. In that case, it was V3 fit and V3 clone.

    I've also transferred DAZ Morphing Flat Top and Aiko 4 Bandanna Hair today. I've never gotten the Flat Top to look as good on a character as it did after that transfer, but the A4 Bandanna Hair didn't do too well. The transfer worked, but all the flyaway bits that are normally part of the hair were bent and broken.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 784
    edited September 2012

    Neftis Beatiful Black Hair Style. This fit genesis, but not change with shapes. Now, I can adapt it to big head toons.

    bigi2.png
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    Post edited by GiGi_7 on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    Yea, sorry vwrangler, I loaded up Genesis and Glyn and couldn't get it to cooperate either. Tried removing bones, tried setting Genesis at the Default and then M4 shape, tried starting the conversion in it's default position but to no avail. I notice that when the hair is converted from a prop to a figure it jumps up about a heads worth so I think that's what's going on so what ever April did when making this hair seems to be hard coded in and it just messes up any attempts to convert it.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    Same with Portia hair. I don't know what that girl did when making these hairs but most are probably not convertible, sorry! When you get a fav to convert just be thankful it worked!

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited September 2012

    RAMWolff said:
    Yea, sorry vwrangler, I loaded up Genesis and Glyn and couldn't get it to cooperate either. Tried removing bones, tried setting Genesis at the Default and then M4 shape, tried starting the conversion in it's default position but to no avail. I notice that when the hair is converted from a prop to a figure it jumps up about a heads worth so I think that's what's going on so what ever April did when making this hair seems to be hard coded in and it just messes up any attempts to convert it.

    Sorry; I think my last post may have been a bit unclear, since I was talking about a few different things at once. In the post after I first mentioned that Glyn and Horsetail didn't work, mjc1016 said that he got Horsetail to transfer by using one of the fit poses. I tried using the same fit and clone with Horsetail on my computer and it worked, so I tried and got Glyn to transfer by using the V3 fit and the V3 clone in the Asset Transfer utility.

    Theoretically, Glyn was made for the Gen4 figures and should work with their clones, but doesn't. It does work with the V3 clone and fit. Don't know if the M3 clone and fit would work, since I didn't try that, but fit poses are apparently a useful thing to try as a backup plan.

    Same with Portia hair. I don't know what that girl did when making these hairs but most are probably not convertible, sorry! When you get a fav to convert just be thankful it worked!

    Does Portia come with a different fit pose? Maybe that would work for it as well.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    V3 eh? Good to know.. off to see what happens. I did write April a note and asked what to do unless she was planning on releasing a bunch of her popular hairs refitted to Genesis.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, just tried the Glyn hair with the V3 clone and nope, still lands about heads worth over the Genesis body. Did you morph Genesis up to V3 shape too??

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    GOT IT... silly me. Apply the V3 FIT in the Poses folder and then convert to figure and then Transfer and use the V3 clone... perfect... WOW! Learned more today! FABULOUS!

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    SO... April did get back to me. Portia and Glyn hair are both made with V3 as the base. I asked her to please make a list of hairs that were made with the V3 base off the top of her head if she wouldn't mind. Her base for all new hair is now Genesis so no worries there. If she's able to do that I will add this list to the first post here and on my freebie page. Decided to do a texture expansion for Glyn too! Might do one for Portia as well since it's the Marilyn Monroe default that most use and I have some really nice blonde shades I made. Used those to make the Lyon texture expansion pack so this shouldn't take too long.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    SO... April did get back to me. Portia and Glyn hair are both made with V3 as the base. I asked her to please make a list of hairs that were made with the V3 base off the top of her head if she wouldn't mind. Her base for all new hair is now Genesis so no worries there. If she's able to do that I will add this list to the first post here and on my freebie page. Decided to do a texture expansion for Glyn too! Might do one for Portia as well since it's the Marilyn Monroe default that most use and I have some really nice blonde shades I made. Used those to make the Lyon texture expansion pack so this shouldn't take too long.

    So she's only making prop hair for Genesis, then? Goya, Maraboo and Beautiful Black Hairstyles all act like props, anyway. (I still don't know why I have Maraboo. All I can think is, it was in Fast Grab, I was in a strange mood, and suddenly I have Edward Scissorhands hair.)

    You're definitely in a "making stuff" mode lately! (Not that I'm objecting, oh no no no no no no.) I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for Glyn.

    (Purely a side note: I've always wondered where the name for Glyn hair came from. There's an old bit of doggerel that I read in a book when I was young that stuck with me lo these many years that I think of every time I see the name: "Would you like to sin / with Elinor Glyn / on a tiger skin / or would you prefer / to err with her / on some other fur?" I would not, myself, prefer to sin with Elinor Glyn ... well, anywhere, especially since she's been dead for 70 years, but you get the idea.)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited October 2012

    Thanks... back-shelved for now!

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,461
    edited December 1969

    Oh, my. What you're doing with Glyn is looking interesting.

    By the by, in a totally unrelated thing: I've run into HR2 files that can't be converted, both by Neftis. Barbarian Hair is early enough that I think it must be made for the first or second generation figures. I highlight it with the Joint editor, select "Convert Prop to Figure" and get the message "You must select a simple object containing geometry to perform this action." I'm not sure how a hair with morphs doesn't have geometry, but ... whatever.

    The same thing happens with Christine Hair, though, and that's late enough that it comes with V3/L3/S3 and V4 versions -- not fits, but actual different files. I wonder what the difference is?

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 674
    edited December 1969

    Hey guys, Richard pointed me to this thread lol cool, great effort!!! *thumbsup* :lol:
    I sorta know what's it's like as I've been obsessively converting my purchased mil3 skins and morphs, plus mil4 morphs to genesis lately, using tc2 and genx lol those old favourites will never die!! :coolgrin:

    For hr2, it didn't matter for me which figure I built my hair model around as I just provide fit morphs and pose presets. ;) So a lot of them were built over my v3 scalp for a long time even after v4 came around. Then I made a v4 scalp and did that for a while. These days I have a genesis scalp to start from, but still provide those fit morphs for mil4 :)

    You can tell which base figure by setting all scale dials to 100% and setting all trans dials to 0.

    So here's my list, some of them might seem funny in hindsight. These are the just base models they were built around, but I repeat, they do fit other figures - see each product page for details ;) Hope that helps!

    v3 base model
    amante
    haughty curls
    fly away
    allure
    shimada
    leavandra
    corsair
    anrhea
    alysadae
    theone
    warkanan
    qylan
    masque hair
    sharmane
    frizzed
    sylphiad
    jamie
    uzuri
    vayne
    kione
    portia
    xylia
    ysaris
    blaine
    ivandri
    marisandra
    kleo
    nova
    glyn
    mitch
    jai
    wynter
    qain
    zed

    m3 base model
    amante
    fly away
    allure
    samurai sting
    corsair
    estio
    devanar
    osean
    rievel
    horse tail

    sp3/d3 base model
    montero

    luke/laura base model
    fauxhawk
    tripletail

    v4 base model
    amarseda
    veronica
    betty
    caleb
    deeta
    featherhawk
    cuffed tail 2
    tandy
    aoife
    rebyglam
    gabriel
    calais
    harper
    harlow
    gia
    qamra
    jordan
    evan
    yolande

    m4 base model
    lyon

    genesis base model
    gia
    qamra
    jordan
    evan
    yolande

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited October 2012

    Thanks April. Your the best honey! :coolgrin: XOXO

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    OK, this is taken from corinthianscori & fivecat’s help notes..

    Setting up Genesis:

    1) Export Genesis from DAZ Studio using the DAZ Studio obj export option.

    2) Save the obj somewhere where you can easily find it since every time ZB has to be restarted it DOES NOT remember the last folder so you have to hunt it down every frigging time. So I created a projects folder on my Desktop and keep that and all the saved PSD’s there until I need to move them to the DAZ Studio Runtime>Textures folder, just keeps things more sane rather than constantly on the hunt for files.

    3) Once you have drawn Genesis into the viewport in ZBrush you will need to hit the Edit button and Frame the figure and get it all straightened out by holding down the Shift key and click/drag into the blank area of the viewport, this puts the figure perfectly straight…

    4) Turn on the Polyframe and go to the Tools area (right side of UI should be docked there by default, scroll down till you find “Polygroups” expand and click the “Autogroups with UV” and you will see the figures color coded groups appear.

    5) Next up is grouping…. Ctrl-Shift-Click (or C+S+C) each body part to hide them (legs, arms, torso, face, zoom in and do this for each ear) You will have the inner mouth, eye parts and nails left (If you don’t want the nails grouped then you will have to C+S+C each (20 more clicks to hide them as well - Personally I do the nails in Photoshop but that’s my choice).

    6) Back to the Polygroups palette in the Tools area you will see buttons there “Group Visible” and “Group Masked”. If you prefer not to deal with masking then just use the first button “Group Visible”. If you have masked areas off you can group them using the second button “Group Masked”. This will make it easy to hide things without having to constantly go in and C+S+C all the time.. YUK! I went ahead and redid mine just in case. I have two groups… Inner Mouth and Eye parts as Group 1 and Toe and Finger Nails as Group 2.

    Painting time:

    NOTE: Don’t forget to switch off the Polyframe (Shift + f) or you will not think your painting anything on the figure!

    01) Select Skin Shader and then a skin color that you like
    02) Set MRGB
    03) Then Color menu, click the “Fill Object” button
    04) Increase resolution (Ctrl D) about 2 to 3 times
    05) Then set RGB and turn off ZAdd or ZSub buttons
    06) Select your paint or material and get to painting.

    Exporting maps:

    1) Go to the UV Map palette and set the UV to the size you want to export at (example: 4000X4000)
    2) Then to Polypaint menu, make sure Colorize is turned on. It’s on by default so if so leave it be!
    3) C+S+C on the parts you want to hide to export you maps. Limbs are arms, legs & nails, Face is just the face, Torso includes the ears!
    Once you have all the parts hidden that need to be hidden to export your first map go to Texture Map and click the “New From Polypaint” button (**Note: Map will be flipped, no worries, keep reading**)
    4) Next in Texture Map, choose “Clone Texture” button. You will see it appear then to the left side in the Texture palette.
    5) Go to the Texture menu (top right of UI) and choose “Flip Vertical” button (It’s icon, second row, second one over)
    6) Texture menu click “export” button, name and export. It will ask about saving a “material index” say NO! Continue…

    Do this for the other two maps and your done.

    Hope that helps everyone understand how easy this can be. Once you get your work flow set up SAVE out your Genesis with the groupings in place as a ZTL file using the Save As button, Right side, top of Tool palette. This way next time you want to do skins for Genesis you will have it already set up and ready to go!

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited December 1969

    If you have parts of Genesis that you have morphed and don't like it's an easy fix via ZBrush:

    Dial up the offending morph and using the GoZ ZBrush bridge,

    a) First export: UNCHECK the "Export with deformations" and go to ZBrush.
    b) Draw Genesis into Viewport (click and drag out the figure). Click the Edit button first afterwards.
    c) Then in the Tools palette expand the "Morph Target" and click the Store MT (this stores Genesis as a morph target!
    d) Click the GoZ button to send it back to DS but once in DS, click the Cancel button
    e) Then send it back to ZBrush but this time check "Export with Deformations"
    f) Once back in ZBrush, now draw out Genesis with it's morphs brought over.
    g) Brush palette, choose the Morph brush.
    h) If your morphed mess is symmetrical then hit the "X" button to turn on Symmetry.
    I) Zoom in to the offending area and begin brushing back to it's default state

    NOTE 1: You may find that your happy with other parts and find that there is a "step" where the old Genesis is now restored... easy fix. Hit and hold the Shift key, this will activate the Smooth brush, you will want to turn the strength though. I usually set it at lucky 13 or 7 depending. Now just brush over the area to blend it out.

    NOTE 2: First before sending it back to DAZ Studio make sure that the old morph is dialed back to ZERO!

    j) When finished hit the GoZ button to bring it back to DAZ Studio.
    k) You have two options, if you want to overwrite the old morph, get back to DAZ Studio choose the "Overwrite Existing Morph", make sure to name it exactly the same and make sure you choose the exact Group Path. Second option is just to give it a new name and choose your Group Path and your done.
    l) Save out the new morph: File> Save As> Support Asset> Morph Asset(s) and your done.

    Hope that helps folks. Sure has helped me allot! :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,307
    edited October 2012
    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for posting this, RAMMY!

    You rock!

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,272
    edited October 2012

    Hey, Richard, got a quick question for you...

    Have you had a hair that when you go to convert it, crashes DS4.5?

    I'm trying to convert Mareek's Simple Hair (a pp2 hair) and every time I get try to convert it, DS crashes. I've done other hair today, so it's not DS. The process fails at converting it to a Triax figure.`

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
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